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GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS


Guest Sparoism

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this american militia will NEVER group together and overthrow anything. maybe when your constitution was signed but not anymore.

 

guns are gay. i can never see my self in a situation where id need one. want my wallet? take it. or my computer? sure why not. im not jesse james and im not getting into any gun fights.

 

'sides only pussies fight with guns.

real men fight with fists, broken bottles, chains, ashtrays, and ripped in half tins of tennents super.

 

nay for guns n ammo.

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Guest Sparoism

I have a lot to say, and I'm tired. But, I'll do my best to say it in as little time as possible. Some of the last things posted made me think, and I definitely need to clear up a couple things before this continues, and makes me (and a few others) carry on with a point which I feel has been adequately proven out by history and its sidekick, statistics.

 

The reason I want a shotgun versus a handgun or Uzi or TEC-9 is due to what boils down to a vote of no confidence in the availability of the police in a Code 3 situation in the city I live in. I've discussed it with a few of them. They agree that they just can't guarantee that they can be there when the shit goes down 100% of the time, that I am well within my rights to use whatever is at my disposal to protect myself or anyone else that resides/lawfully visits my residence, and that if I had a clean record and no moral opposition to doing so, to DEFINITELY consider buying a firearm to ensure that safety. I asked them what would be the best way to protect a second story apartment with access via two narrow staircases, and the (anticipated) reply I got in most cases was that a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun, loaded with 00 buckshot, would stop ANYONE without having to worry about accuracy in a crisis situation, provided that I was willing to A) pull the trigger and B) deal with whatever happened after the fact.

 

As I said, I'm reasonable. I'd give Nasty Nate ONE chance to walk out of my house. I wouldn't shoot someone in the back, either- if he's smart enough to run, let the cops deal with it at that point. Sure, he might come back...and we'll keep going through it until he figures it out. You can't get in my apartment without unlocking a gate or scaling a drainpipe to climb in a window. Both of those entry points make enough noise to wake me up in time to react.

 

Do I have any vendettas outside of personal protection that I would feel compelled to handle by lethal means? No. I don't settle my differences that way. Am I suicidal? No. A shotgun is not a viable way to kill yourself that can be done quckly, cleanly, and painlessly.

 

I am VERY well educated, and I did that all on my own initiative, without benefit of anything beyond a high-school diploma. I read a lot, and go out of my way to inform myself when I need to be 100% sure about something like this. I plan to buy my gun from a dealer, and get it registered, etc. No buying the shit off the street, I'm a little smarter than that.

 

I realize a lot of what I say is contradictory, prima facie. But, EVERYONE has these conflicts. I live with mine. I'm liberal to the point that, if what you do hurts no one but yourself, it's not up to me to decide whether or not it is right or good. I become a lot more conservative when it comes to personal responsibility, and that includes preparing for worst case scenarios. I've expressed my concern over the way this country is run, but I doubt that I would ever have to back up my convictions with a gun. As everyone has stated, I'd move first. That is a realistic reaction. Moving out of one of the last affordable, conveniently located neighborhoods in my area because of my perception of rising crime rates is not something I am going to do. I'm nobody's bitch, and I don't think I have to leave because, quite simply, other people don't have to fuck me over to survive.

 

If guns are gay, then fuck yeah, I'm gay. Sign me up. I'll be Freddie Mercury, or even Liberace. Unlike them, however, I'll be alive and I'll continue to kick ass till there aren't any asses left to kick or I'm six feet under.

 

And, just so you know, I AM prepared to shoot the one with someone if they tried to break in- "My girlfriend was robbed at gunpoint by "two big, scary black dudes" six months ago less than three blocks from where I type this, plus I live next door to a house full of junkies and tweakers...when I lived in San Francisco in 2004, we had a crackhead ex-roommate we threw out break in 22 times in 2 months. NO police intervention. So, one night, we beat the shit out of him with a 2x4 and I stomped his bike into modern art. Then, we went to his hotel, caught up with him there, and pepper sprayed him as he was walking up to the door with a broken arm. He skipped town after that."

 

Yes, I wrote that. I'd do that again in a hot second if I had to.

 

Pessimism is nothing but informed optimism, and I'm not willing to be subject to the realities of my situation without being ready to take care of myself.

 

The biggest irony of all this, is this. We're all criminals, in one way or another, almost as a rule on this board. Can you count on the police to take care of you and your business? That's something that soccer moms can believe in, but I see too many problems with that assumption.

 

I feel that the only person I can count on in this world is sitting in this room right now. And, he's alone. I think some of what I say has maybe scared people here, or jarred them out of their comfortable reality. You're welcome, you needed that.

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"Pessimism is nothing but informed optimism, and I'm not willing to be subject to the realities of my situation without being ready to take care of myself.

 

The biggest irony of all this, is this. We're all criminals, in one way or another, almost as a rule on this board. Can you count on the police to take care of you and your business? That's something that soccer moms can believe in, but I see too many problems with that assumption. "

 

 

nice post.

waiting for the police to come is a good way to get killed. if someone threatens my life or my families life, hell even my friends life when i am present, be it being robbed or breaking into your house, he is getting 2 in the chest and one in the head.

 

on another note, i think i disagree with those cops on using a single shot shotgun for home defense. i realize you can keep it loaded just about forever, but is one shot enough? 00 buck doesnt spread out to cover a wall at ranges under 20 feet, (most houses/aparments, a shot would usually be way under 20 ft.) hell, it wont spread out to cover a wall unless you are real far away, and by this time you wont have any killing power. the only way it might spread big like that is if it is seriously cut down.

so if you add in being scared shitless to the equation, with some guy pointing a gun at you, and you dont hit center chest, home boy is not incompacitated. a simple pump action gun, with 5+ shots is what i have confidence in. mossberg 500's with 18" tubes can be had damn near all day long for 200-250$ used at any gun show. and being short it is manueverable in a house. self defense/home defense is not about killing, but putting guy on the floor and not being a threat. if guy is hit, and his arm is still moving with a gun in it, he is still a threat. 00 buck/.45 caliber handgun is about the best choices for stopping something.

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it's incapacitated . ... in case you wanted to know.

 

if only guns bought for home protection were only used for that

instead of accidental and purposeful shootings and suicide.

 

if the world was cut and dry

it would be plain and simple.

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i don't think you even read any of my first post

you have an idea of what i think. and you argue with that idea

instead of what i wrote.

 

didn't you notice that i never suggested banning guns?

in fact, i think that is fucking futile

there were MILLIONS of firearms made in the past few years.

banning them won't stop them

 

 

i wonder whether you are capapble of even admitting that they are lethal evil inventions?

probably not.

maybe you think of them like some people think of teddy bears

they are your security blanket

i don't know.

 

as far as cars, i hate them

i haven't owned a car in three years, so don't get me started on that one either

 

if you would like to ignore statistics, such as being 75% more likely to die of a homicide and almost 4 times as likely to kill yourself, that is ok by me.

 

if you actually bother to read any of what i typed, you would know i'm not trying to get guns banned.

but it would be nice if more people accepted the reality of what they are.

 

they are no longer about defense against empire, because if we all tried to rise up and fight our government right now, we'd be crushed in the process, whether the overthrow was 'successful' or not.

 

shit, slavery was legal with our forefathers, while we're at it let's bring that back too?

hahahaa...i'm not being serious, just illustrating a point ..this is the way you tried to turn my 'argument' on me right?

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i read your first post. i didnt comment mainly because i can pull out "the Bias against guns" and blow all your statistics out of the water in defense of guns. statistics arent necessarily the best way to handle things. I could also pull out "the bell curve" or something similar and we could have an endless racism argument. we take a risk every day by literally existing. we cannot rid the world of all evil. we would have to get rid of matches because they start forest fires. i could continue.

 

in this debate there have been a few things that have been brought up. first, what is the second amendment. second, does it allow citizens to own guns. third, is someone personally opposed to guns or for them.

 

guns are no joke. im not denying this. i like guns for many reasons. i realize what they do. hell, you should of came blowing up pumpkins with us that day and and we could of been arguing about the velocity of various cartridges and loads at various distances, and its effect on pumpkin flesh. ;)

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they are no longer about defense against empire, because if we all tried to rise up and fight our government right now, we'd be crushed in the process, whether the overthrow was 'successful' or not.

 

 

 

hahaha...you funny guy...I mean what are the rebels in Irag doing? Just playing around and hunting deer?

 

And those rag heads are doing a pretty good job of destabalizing the country.

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Shai, you are alot better off with a high quality dead bolt lock, a good alarm system, and a baseball bat. It is very difficult to take another person's life, even if it means protecting yourself or your family. Its an unnatural act. The possibility of a misfire, forgetting the safety is off, mistaking a neighbor or loved one, bad ammunition going off in the heat, missing an 'intruder', ect ect should be enough to make someone realize its not that great of an idea for home protection.

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i know, i know, im a loonball survivalist gun nut, but i think your opinion might change is say...if you walk in to your house and some guy has jack the rippered your kid, is raping your wife with a hand gun in her mouth, and says "your next honey."then some other dude jumps out and says "on your knees, let me hear you squeal like a pig boy..." just dial 911 right?

 

but i know i know, whats the chance of it happening right? big brother is here to protect you.

 

MB00039.jpg

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Guest Sparoism
Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 28 2005, 03:50 PM

Shai, you are alot better off with a high quality dead bolt lock, a good alarm system, and a baseball bat. It is very difficult to take another person's life, even if it means protecting yourself or your family. Its an unnatural act. The possibility of a misfire, forgetting the safety is off, mistaking a neighbor or loved one, bad ammunition going off in the heat, missing an 'intruder', ect ect should be enough to make someone realize its not that great of an idea for home protection.

Locks and security gates- check.

 

Baseball bats, knives, pepper spray, handcuffs, zip ties, bathtub full of water with a radio tossed in- covered.

 

Alarm system- in the hood? I think I'd sleep better, but no, we don't have one. Our landlord hasn't got the money, I'd imagine. We don't have the money, either.

 

I don't want to kill anyone. We very seldom have people showing up without caling first, and we have a doorbell that works. That covers all of our unannounced guests.

 

Of course, if I pulled a gun on someone, I'd ID them first. I don't know any robbers..."Hey Jim, what the fuck, man...you know me, get the fuck outta here!" Ain't gonna happen.

 

As far as ideas go, if you look past the idea and go to the CAUSE- economics of neccessity/desperation- the idea being bad is trumped by the cause.

 

I DON'T LIKE GUNS. They're tools, and tools of death. Your karma does not go up 50 points by owning one, I'd imagine.

 

But, the idea that guns are evil is easliy applied to other areas...cars driven by drunk drivers are evil. Child porn on the internet is evil. ANYTHING that can be used has a certain repository of evil potential. I have to leave the house to live my life, and if I was concerned about the potential evil of EVERY SINGLE THING that existed, I believe I would go crazy.

 

It's just one of those things that I elect to not think about. I don't plan on having kids until I live somewhere else. Your level of risk is tied to your enviroment, and as long as I have to live in a place (my lease is up in May) where being armed was a prerequisite for peace of mind, kids aren't going to lower my stress level, they would RAISE it.

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Originally posted by angelofdeath@Dec 28 2005, 09:32 PM

you can commit suicide with a pencil. ganstas "capping" people are losers. you have a better chance of getting killed in a car accident than with a gun. should be ban all cars too?

 

you cant get rid of guns, so why not let citizens keep the right to defend themselves?

 

 

 

but my contention is, is that cars are registerd and have insurance, so should guns... and in terms of robbers in my home. first I have nothing worth stealing, but I also pay $200 a year for apt insurance, so people can steal all they want, insurance will pay...

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Guest Sparoism

I don't think gun registration is the issue, more than the morals attached to gun ownership.

 

Renters' insurance? That's not gonna replace everything...my girlfriend, for example.

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what about, instead of banning firearms altogether...that we institute tougher gun laws and require education on proper gun use and self protection as a prereq for all RESPONSIBLE (ie: those who purchase guns legally) gun users..I think that may cut down on the number of accidental deaths...meh, just a thought.

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so called gun control is unconstitutional. what part of "infringed" dont you understand?

gun control and registration is the first step to confiscation. ask the jews in germany. or the russians under stalin. they will tell you. all gun control does is make it harder for the law abiding citizen to own a gun. of all the gun crime, what part of it is done with legally registered handguns by thier lawful owner? now think real hard on this one.

 

gun control is anti liberty. period.

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Guest Sparoism
Originally posted by angelofdeath@Dec 28 2005, 08:14 PM

so called gun control is unconstitutional. what part of "infringed" dont you understand?

gun control and registration is the first step to confiscation. ask the jews in germany. or the russians under stalin. they will tell you. all gun control does is make it harder for the law abiding citizen to own a gun. of all the gun crime, what part of it is done with legally registered handguns by thier lawful owner? now think real hard on this one.

 

gun control is anti liberty. period.

 

Well, this is where you and I have diverging opinions.

 

I'm a lot closer to dumy on this point, although I wonder what more legislation would accomplish.

 

The existing system is a good compromise for all parties except for those in the "no government involvment in gun ownership" camp.

 

It's either no guns as in Japan (really low crime rates), everybody has guns and can either go the route of Somalia (total anarchy) or Switzerland (the populace IS the militia, and all households are required to have a firearm in working order...the violent crime rate there makes the US look like a crying shame, too) or what is in place now...far from perfect, but it works well enough.

 

It's all about checks and balances.

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Originally posted by angelofdeath@Dec 29 2005, 04:14 AM

so called gun control is unconstitutional. what part of "infringed" dont you understand?

gun control and registration is the first step to confiscation. ask the jews in germany. or the russians under stalin. they will tell you. all gun control does is make it harder for the law abiding citizen to own a gun. of all the gun crime, what part of it is done with legally registered handguns by thier lawful owner? now think real hard on this one.

 

gun control is anti liberty. period.

 

 

I'm with this guy 100% on this issue.

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Also when my pops was a kid, there was far fewer kids running around blasting eachother. But every household had guns. The difference was that it was part of the culture to train kids AT AN EARLY AGE to respect guns. A 10 year old kid was learning how to properly clean and use guns and also taught to respect guns and how to properly handle them so's to avoid accidentally shooting oneself or someone else. Guns were embraced as part of American culture and thus everyone was educated in the importance of respecting the power of the gun... therefore they were abused and misshandled far less.

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Guest Sparoism
Originally posted by SF1@Dec 28 2005, 09:30 PM

Also when my pops was a kid, there was far fewer kids running around blasting eachother. But every household had guns. The difference was that it was part of the culture to train kids AT AN EARLY AGE to respect guns. A 10 year old kid was learning how to properly clean and use guns and also taught to respect guns and how to properly handle them so's to avoid accidentally shooting oneself or someone else. Guns were embraced as part of American culture and thus everyone was educated in the importance of respecting the power of the gun... therefore they were abused and misshandled far less.

Yeah, I agree with the idea of education being one of the best forms of preventing stupid people from doing stupid things. There were a lot of stupid gun owners back in the day, I'm sure...and you didn't hear about as many "accidental deaths" in the fifties, probably. Now, it's sensationalized in the media, along with every single instance of what stupid people with guns do.

 

I think some regulation IS neccessary. I just have a more moderate view as far as the issue of gun control is concerned, however.

 

"Bowling For Columbine" more or less summed all of this up.

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Guest Sparoism

This may be the first time in 12 oz. history where Kabar and SF1 actually AGREE on something.

 

Maybe I did the impossible...or maybe there isn't a whole lot of difference in what they think, just where the two of them are coming from.

 

Either way, it's remarkable.

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Guest Sparoism

No, I doubt that. Angel is more of an anarchist, Kabar is more of a "when the shit goes down, I'm gonna be ready" kind of guy.

 

I respect Angel's views, and understand where he's coming from. The thing is, Americans are simply unable to be responsible for their actions 100% of the time. I'm no law and order type, but you have to see the logic behind protecting people from themselves.

 

Angel may be able to do it. I doubt his neighbors could.

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