RIP STAN "TOOKIE" WILLIAMS

[villain]

Yes because the vast majority of the jobs went with the whites. You know this. We shouldn't have to revisit history class because you want to take a shortcut in your argument. It was the opposite of the regentrification trends we are seeing now, with white yuppie suburban kids moving back into the cities, the influx of expensive condos, the destruction of low income housing, and hence, the displacement of lower income people, who often happen to be minority. How does that screw my argument? It's the economic reality. What I want to know is how you can essentially say "I support white flight and segregation, if minorities can't survive, fuck them."

 

Granted, affirmative action is not a perfect solution, but it is better than nothing. And it's not like there are no whites on skid row either... I never said that. You sound like you are taking a defensive position. If you want to blame someone for your own struggles in life as what I'm presuming to be a poor white man, you should blame the elite class that is absorbing practically 90% of the nations wealth, not imperfect but good hearted reform efforts designed to help people clearly suffering.

[angelofdeath]

"How does that screw my argument?"

 

it screws your argument because there is no state sanctioned 'racism' to speak of anymore unless you want to count quotas, busing, and affirmative action, and minority set asides. you'er saying that minorites cannot survive without whites. you're saying that minorities cannot survive by themselves. i do not support state sanctioned segregation, but i damn sure support someone wanting to live where they want to live. when the State starts telling me where i can and cannot live or starts setting up communities to better allow "opportunity" then we have a problem.

 

what is stopping minorities from starting thier own businesses and/or getting better paying jobs? affirmative action is set up to give minorities more of a free pass than whites. what is the deal? the only thing holding anyone back in 2006 is themselves, not "the man."

 

""I support white flight and segregation, if minorities can't survive, fuck them." "

as for this line...

in a free society where liberty is present, no one is to support anyone against thier will. no one has an obligation to help anyone if they dont want to. what you are recommending is socialism and a totally central planned society. this is SLAVERY. a slave to the State who supposedly will tell everyone what to do, how to do it, and everyone will be 'equal.'

in a free society, i also have the option to help anyone i want to. if i want buy some guy making minimum wage a house, i have that right. if i want to give him food, i have that right. the moment the government starts coercing its people to do this, houston, we have a problem.

 

i dont blame anyone for my "stuggles." if i am to blame anyone for any misfortunes i have, i will blame myself, not some elite class or racism. capitalism is not the most flawless system, but it is the closest thing the world will ever get to having a flawless system. it centers around freedom, and lack of government coercion. this coercion is a threat to everyone's liberty. you must work to eat. the welfare state is immoral and coercive. who is to say government is the best candidate for the job? private organizations and churches, etc have done more to better bad conditions for poor people than any government program. trillions of dollars have been wasted and the percent of poverty in this country hasnt changed, at all. to me, if something isnt working, its time to abolish it. time for plan B. its not time to pull some keynesian type spending.

 

as one of my hero's, the radical individualist albert jay nock points out, the welfare state and reliance on a central state for everything creates a dependent and entitlement mindset. before the new deal it was common for other people to help other people. it was common for large donations to be given to organizations to help the poor and unfortunate. now with the coercive welfare state in place, and property being taken from one individual to give to another, people have the mindset that the government owes them something. the practice of today is not to help the guy asking for something to eat or a quarter, but to tell him to look to the State for help, because they already took the quarter to the guy who wants food.

 

it just warms my heart to see that the anarchists of today are preaching reliance on the State. its sort of like how conservatives are now preaching empire and big government, liberals are preaching socialism when a century ago they were preaching what is called libertarianism today. i guess everything changes.

[villain]

I'm only an anarchist insofar as I don't claim to be an authority. I believe ideas should change and adapt to reflect new information and events. My opinions only reflect my own opinions. I do not claim to be an expert, espousing authority in official capacity. If I were then more words would be more carefully chosen and I'd actually give a shit about it because I'd be making money while I was at it. When I find time to reflect on issues, I do it out of compassion. I have no interest in forwarding any sort of agenda, I do not benefit from that.

 

It's funny how you guys always come back with the same things. Individualism, self-responsibility, etc. etc. Even if I wasn't talking about anything remotely of the sort you find a way to work that into the subject. lol. And guns. lololol. I do not advocate dependency on a big centralized government. I adhere to the ancient adage of "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." I'm not interested in handouts and I deplore laziness. I have a strong work ethic, and I come from what is now a blue collar minority in america. I've had jobs that would make most kids these days run home crying to mommy and daddy. You are only projecting your beliefs into the world if you think I support handouts. I am in favor of affirmative action because it creates opportunities that can empower people and hence create wealth and opportunity for others. I would in fact be totally in favor of free higher education and free health care and the like. If that seems statist to you, then so be it. I see it as creating assets of people rather than detriments. Unless you grew up as a minority, surrounded in poverty, and have been discriminated against, and criminalized I don't think you will understand my frustration when I hear "what is keeping minorities from owning their own businesses and getting better jobs?" Yeah mcdonalds is really a great opportunity for upwardly mobile individuals. If you can even get a job. Living paycheck to paycheck. Do you have any idea what this feels like? I'm guessing not. I keep getting images of right wingers as either white people who are mad because they see their taxes going to support black people on welfare, or white business owners looking for easy bucks and tax breaks.

 

You know I love freedom too. I also think capitalism was a good system. WAS. The problem is that the capital has been capitalized and now it's no better than Stalinism. Everything was fine and dandy when someone could go out and realize their own potential and carve your own niche out of the world based on what you put into it. It's not a free country anymore. Everything is owned and monopolized or it's on it's way there. We are going to keep losing jobs to increased efficiency and outsourcing. That includes you too, unless you are in that ever shrinking elite business class. Hell, even our government is so corrupted by private power, special interests, powerful monied lobbies, we are turning into a corporatist/fascist state right before our very own eyes. Which is why I can hardly understand how people like you can have such devotion to an ideology that will ultimately destroy you. Maybe you think the idea of your employer replacing you with a displaced, half-starved 8 year old in Indo-China is an admirable show of individual will power and self determination. I don't. Sure it sounds great, that protestant work ethic that made america strong, that rugged individualism.... It's all just a bunch of empty rhetoric to me. I've lived that ideology. It doesn't work because I can assure you my potential has always been much greater than where I've been in life. I am actually greatly offended by my own wasted potential and demeaned existence. I deplore laziness as much as anyone. I also think alot of americans are spoiled and have a sense of entitlement (I am certainly not one of them!). I've heard all these arguments before, and I can assure you I'm not in the typical liberal position either. I feel that minorities (well maybe not asians and jews lol), and the poor, and working poor (of any color!) are getting shrifted, and lack opportunity. I not only have real world experience to support this but lots of studying I have done over the years. Fact, most jobs over the last three decades have been dead-end, low stability, high-turnover jobs. Fact, real wages (adjusted for inflation) have been in decline for the past 3 decades and is now half what it once was.

Make no mistake about it, they will "increase productivity" by increasing your work load until they can find a way to replace you altogether. A system based on maximizing profits cannot be sustained in the real world.

I've been thinking about starting a labor/economics thread, I just haven't gotten around to it. That way we could leave Tookie alone to RIP.

 

In the mean time you should read about the RICH economy, we can all be rich:

http://www.whywork.org/rethinking/whywork/rawilson.html

Here's a history on the working and leisure class in western culture... very interesting:

http://www.whywork.org/rethinking/leisure/russell.html

And from the greatest engineer of the century, Bucky Fuller:

"Making cash scarce to keep it valuable, by making those who have it fear the miserable state of those who do not, is a coercive system, not a freedom-loving one."

http://www.whywork.org/rethinking/leisure/bucky.html

[villain]

I have found a super secret chart that PROVES we are being controlled by an alien race of reptilians bent on using us as slave labor until they can create a fully automated society where we will be REPLACED by robots. This chart was put together by the most advanced mathematical algorithms, plotting our most likely course into the future.

http://hyperstition.abstractdynamics.org/archives/images/robots/robots%20superior%20to%20humans.jpg

DON"T YOU GET IT!!! They are going to destroy us for profits and when they are done exploiting our resources move onto another planet! AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[angelofdeath]

see, the reason why i refer to you as a statist is because you are talking down on anyone that doesnt believe in the State. you are degrading anyone who doesnt want to pay into a welfare system. anyone who doesnt want to pay into social security. you are referring to capitalism as a failure. you are saying anything laissez faire doesnt work. then you preach about the good qualities of the State (in your opinion) likes its affirmitive action laws. you dont think people can pursue thier own happiness (private property) without direct government control.

 

im not comfortable with your argument about all the wealth being in one class. nothing is holding anyone back, except thier own actions. if you are worried about wealth all being concentrated in one area, worry about socialism. the government controls all money and industry. in our system, we have an endless supply of money, from the FED. they print money at will. capitalism will not fail. it will not bring an end to me or anyone else.

i like to stand by this:

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. " - Thomas Jefferson

[angelofdeath]

i just read thomas sowell the great black economist's newest column... this stuck out:

 

"The greatest danger to the liberal vision are facts about the consequences of liberalism itself and the laws, policies, and ways of life that the left has spawned.

That the black family, which survived centuries of slavery and generations of discrimination, has disintegrated in the wake of the liberal welfare state is only one example.

Liberals have been driven to the desperate expedient of attributing this and other social pathology in today's ghettos to "a legacy of slavery" -- even though black children grew up with two parents more often under slavery than today.

Blacks only a generation or two out of slavery also had higher rates of employment and lower rates of crime than today.

The illogic of the "legacy of slavery" argument only illustrates the desperate attempt to salvage the liberal vision.

The very people who argue this way would never be guilty of such illogic in discussing something that was not such a threat to their vision.

One of the most telling examples of the social destructiveness of the left's welfare-state vision can be found among the white slum dwellers in Britain described in the brilliant and insightful book "Life at the Bottom" by Theodore Dalrymple.

There it is not possible to blame social degeneracy on slavery, racism or any of the other things cited as causes of the behavior and consequences found among blacks in American slums. Yet the results are virtually identical, right down to children beating up classmates for trying to get an education.

The vision of the left, full of envy and resentment, takes its worst toll on those at the bottom -- whether black or white -- who find in that paranoid vision an excuse for counterproductive and ultimately self-destructive attitudes and behavior."

[Some1]

ooooooooooo snap

[villain]

I swear to god this is like having a one way conversation... I see you are going to say what you are going to say regardless. Did I say I support the welfare state? I'm not degrading anyone who doesn't want to pay into welfare or social security. No. I said we need to give people more than a handout, we need to give people opportunity. We need to make wealth generate itself, instead of burning it so people can just get by. I wouldn't say it's so much a legacy of slavery as it is a legacy of racism. Sure slavery ended, but without opportunity, and being denied opportunity how are the vast majority of ethnic minorities supposed to rise out of the poverty that is our legacy? Something is wrong with a society where the military is what is driving minorities into the middle class. Not career opportunities. Not colleges. We may not have a legal draft but the phrase "Go to war or go to jail" still rings true. And yes, I know there are similar problems in white slums. I've said many times that this is not so much a race issue as a class issue. And that's pretty much all I ever hear from you guys. We don't like welfare, we don't want to pay taxes on that shit, we don't like affirmative action... blah blah blah. So what do you propose we do about all these things? Or is it nothing? You just want to cut and cut and to hell with the people who suffer. It's all because of our attitude right? We think the world owes us a favor so we can be lazy good-for-nothings. WHY DO I KEEP HEARING THIS SHIT OVER AND OVER AGAIN? Do you think people LIKE living in poverty? LIKE being uneducated and lacking opportunity? LIKE being criminalized? LIKE having our media flooded with negative role models? LIKE having our streets flooded with drugs? I am not happy with status quo either. The right thinks the answer to everything is to cut, cut, cut, and deregulate everything. Then who is going to protect us from the powerful??? Noone. You have opened the floodgates of hell, so all those who worship mammon can pillage and plunder freely. It's the end of the world as we know it.

And all of the wealth is being concentrated into one class. You mean to tell me you don't see anything unusual about the wealth distribution? I find that hard to believe.

[iloveboxcars]

^people have opportunity...

 

my parents came over here when both of them were about 20 years old. not knowing a word of english. for the first 14/15 years of my life i grew up on the salary of a security guard and a cashier. both of them went to school slowly but surely and are both now making 6 figures. yeah.

[The Man with the Answers]

free tookie!!!!!!!!

[iloveboxcars]

he is free.

[Gunm]

Fuck Tookie

[B_As_In_Bot]

So much bickering..When we could all really be discussing how to overthrow the government and not have to ever worry about who did what, and how they should be dealt with/ who should have dealt with them..

Just do it, destroy everything the government has tainted the land with..Well never worry about it again.:scrambled:

 

Tookie was no doubt born to be a warlord in his later life..He got there, now he has put down to sleep.

 

How many kids did he have anyway? Id be wary of them too..The Tookie Gene-Child is coming to take your daughter away. and thats the REAL DEAL.

[Hashassian]

g's up hoes down if that bitch cant swim she bound to dizzownd.

[ElGringo]

RIP TOOKIE

[nino1]

alot of people talkin alot of big shit about tookie. tookie's a hero, i don't care how many deaths, black or white (and they were mostly black) he was responsible for. if you stand up to the police and society to protect or better those around you who have been the victim of subjugation, I believe that is admirable. black people in LA were, are, and will be shit on by the politicians, the buisness crowd, hollywood, and the police, more than you could ever understand unless you are 1) black 2) from LA. you gotta do your homework.. do you know what a restrictive covenant is? google it and find out. what about the institutionalized brutality, rape, and murder by the LAPD? you've got a group of what is mostly kids, people under 25, who can get a fair deal from no one. they can get no jobs, they are forced to live in the worst parts of town, they are put in substandard schools with no funding, and their parents are often victim of these same circumstances, which amplifies the situation of the child. Your gunna blame a 16 year old for a crooked deal he got served 400 years ago?? and i'm sorry but i had to put this in, because even the idea that something like affirmative action would make it all better is offensive, but affirmative action is a proven failure. how well is affirmative action working? look at your workplace, your school, your local politicians office, on your television set. what do you see? do you think the few black people there are representative of the greater black community? the only place a black person is encouraged to succeed is in the military, killing other Africans (Iraq..). lastly, before you point the finger, WHO ARE THE REAL CRIMINALS? WHO makes and imports the crack cocaine, the uzi's, the malt liquor, the heroin, the diamonds? It doesn't start in the ghetto... Come on kids use your head!!! smoke a blunt, open a book, get some knowledge cause soon reading is gunna be "terrorism"!! for all you hiphop heads, check chubb rock-

"so tell me whose got the cocaine.. don't tell me its the little kids on soul train.. it comes from other places, not from tinted faces.. you watch channel zero with that bitch barbara walters, she'll have you believe black invented crack, when president lyndon had the formula way back in 63 with kennedy..."

[Smart]

Ex-Gang Leader's Ashes Spread in Africa

 

RICHMOND, Calif. (AP) -- The ashes of executed Crips gang co-founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams were spread in a lake in South Africa in accordance with his will, a friend said.

 

Barbara Becnel, who co-authored children's books with Williams and witnessed his execution, said in a statement Friday that she and Williams' longtime friend Shirley Neal sprinkled the ashes into the lake Sunday in Thokoza Park in the city of Soweto, as Williams had requested.

 

"On his last day of life Stan asked me to spread his ashes in South Africa," Becnel said. "He wanted to return to the motherland."

 

Williams was cremated after his death by injection at San Quentin state prison on Dec. 13.

 

He was convicted of murdering four people during two 1979 holdups. He claimed to have redeemed himself by writing books encouraging youngsters to stay away from gangs.

[soulkillers]

this shit is still going ? end it... he is dead.

[Gunm]

alot of people talkin alot of big shit about tookie. tookie's a hero' date=' i don't care how many deaths, black or white (and they were mostly black) he was responsible for. if you stand up to the police and society to protect or better those around you who have been the victim of subjugation, I believe that is admirable. [/quote']

 

so you're saying "if you don't get your way, kill people for recognition and respect."

 

 

oh yeah, that'll getcha REAL far.

 

 

 

 

your man is not a hero. he got what he deserved.

[Murdoc1]

Hero? Hell no

A human being, yes, respect the dead, you never know what cards you'll get dealt, some people play them differently than others, but no matter what you will end up dead sooner or later, and when you die, no matter what you did, there will be people who remember you in a positive way, and others who will spit on your grave. He is dead so there really is no reason to argue, one day I hope a topic about me will be somewhere on here (Still doubt I'll make it past 20), of course there will always be others in the world who think, who the hell is he? Just another vandal

[B_As_In_Bot]

Well he may have been somewhat of a hero to some, but more likley feared by most throughout his life.

People are calling him a hero because towards the end of his life he tried to change his ways and set a good example. So he was a heroic hypocrite. He certainly wasn tthe first or last to do feel the way he did, it just shows he kind of softened up/felt remorse,and thats what the prisons are designed to do to people who commit heinous crimes..People who praise him as hero probably have faith in the prison systems too..

 

Stupid. Prisons are about scamming people, killing people and fucking people - tookie got fucked, then killed. If I was in his position I would probably do the same thing..set the right example, but I would have taken my life when I wanted to die, not when they wanted me to die.

[Gunm]

So much bickering..When we could all really be discussing how to overthrow the government and not have to ever worry about who did what, and how they should be dealt with/ who should have dealt with them..

Just do it, destroy everything the government has tainted the land with..Well never worry about it again.:scrambled:

 

awesome.....I'll have fun watching you and your leftist buddies get ground into meatsauce by national guard tanks from the comfort of my living room.

[Kabaila.The.Spear.Chucker]

tookie was my long lost cousin

[Dawood]

yeah right kabaila....you know youre a white kid from scruburbia

[iloveboxcars]

scruburbia? are you trying to shame people for living in the suburbs? doesnt the kuran speak against this? or is that the bible?

 

or both?

[Dawood]

what about your iloveboxcars book? doesn't that speak against questioning my statements about scruburbia? I'm not a perfect person. If you knew me , I'm sure you'd find a lot of mistakes in me.

I love the suburbs, I drive through there a lot on my way to wherever I'm going. As a matter of fact i'm from an industrial city/suburb of a major city that turned slummy over the last 20 years.

 

Don't look for mistakes in me, you'll find a lot.

 

look for mistakes in you so you can change them.

 

and btw, thanks for checking me so I can be a better person

 

 

and my new statement is that the suburbs are a great place and Ilove boxcars is groovy too.

[El Mamerro]

Def groovy.

[The Man with the Answers]

As a matter of fact i'm from an industrial city/suburb of a major city that turned slummy over the last 20 years.

 

 

 

what? your town has been slummy for 300 years now, lol. When I was in school I read this book about this kid who grew up in Lynn. Started drinking at 11, smoking dope, stealing, being a truant, runaway etc etc.

 

 

When was the book written? 1870 and was the memoir of a sailor... I wish I remebered the title...

[Dawood]

ah, man...You had to throw it out there.

I googled lynn videos one time and I saw the Lynn police shoot this guy who was holding a knife on the Marsh road. They were like "drop the knife , buddy" and then the popped him when he ran.... the cop was asking the other cops "did I do something wrong?"

Anyway, Iloveboxcars is groovy and Sin City is a slum, dood.

[Smart]

Once on a Philly version of Cops they arrested and questioned a car thief in front of a grate with a Kadism wicked on it, so, that's about the best thing I ever saw on Cops...

 

Did you guys see the Treasure Hunter show last week or I guess the re-ran it tonight? Had the Mary Burke School in Chelsea and apparently they paid Ghost to lace up the set. I think he only did one classroom though, just from what I saw... still, random shit on prime time tv.