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Weapon X

London Mayor Faces Tribunal

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Livingstone faces tribunal over 'Nazi' jibe

 

Matthew Tempest, political correspondent

Tuesday December 13, 2005

 

London mayor Ken Livingstone is today facing up to a five-year disqualification, as the row over his remarks to an Evening Standard journalist finally reaches a tribunal.

 

The local government watchdog, the Standards Board for England & Wales, will determine whether Mr Livingstone brought his office into disrepute when he compared a Jewish reporter from the London newspaper to a Nazi concentration camp guard.

 

Despite pressure from the prime minister and parts of the Jewish community at the time, Mr Livingstone refused to apologise - although he could now be forced to by the panel.

 

Article continues

The mayor is attending the panel, which has the power to disqualify him from office for five years, or give a one-year suspension, a censure, demand a formal apology or force him to undergo training.

 

But his legal team insisted the case should be thrown out.

 

Tony Child, appearing for Mr Livingstone at the London hearing, began with a battery of legal argument, saying the complaint was not specific enough, did not pinpoint which alleged breach of the code had been made and, as such, had prevented Mr Livingstone from answering the claims fully earlier.

 

The mayor was not acting in an official capacity when he responded to a question by Mr Finegold, he argued.

 

The opening of the two-day hearing is expected to be dominated with legal argument. Previously, Mr Livingstone has questioned the authority of the quango to effectively deselect democratically elected politicians.

 

The row - first reported on Guardian Unlimited - occurred after a party in February at City Hall for the 20th anniversary of London MP Chris Smith coming out as Britain's first gay MP.

 

The party was not open to the public or press and Oliver Finegold, a Standard journalist, approached Mr Livingstone as he left.

 

On being approached by Mr Finegold outside, Mr Livingstone refused to talk about the party. Instead, referring to the Daily Mail - the Standard's sister paper - and its support for the Nazis in the 1930s, Mr Livingstone is said to have baited the reporter, asking if he was "a German war criminal".

 

On being told that Mr Finegold was Jewish and found that remark offensive, the mayor said: "You are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?"

 

In the days after the row in February, Mr Livingstone consistently refused to apologise, saying: "If he isn't happy he shouldn't be working for a paper like that.

 

You can't expect to work for the Daily Mail group and have the rest of society treat with you respect as a useful member of society, because you are not."

 

In the 1930s the paper's owner, Lord Rothermere, supported appeasement with the Nazi regime, and the paper famously published a frontpage supporting the Oswald Mosley's British fascists under the headline: "Hurrah for the Blackshirts."

 

Mr Livingstone argued that he had been rude to reporters for nearly 25 years and that he would continue to be so. However, he was also accused of hypocrisy for having written a restaurant review column for the paper under its previous editor, Max Hastings.

 

The mayor was reported to the standards board by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Commission for Racial Equality.

 

The standards board was set up in 2001 to promote a code of conduct for local councillors and investigate breaches. However, it has faced criticism for the slow processing of complaints

 

It has been a rollercoaster year for the mayor, who headed London's successful Olympics 2012 bid, only to find himself within 24 hours masterminding the capital's response to the suicide bombings of July 7.

 

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gla/story/0...1666239,00.html

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Guest Sparoism

I wouldn't have said that. I think I would have just rolled him up ala Sean Penn...

 

"Here's your quote...." SLAP!

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meh the guys a dooshbag and should applogize but getting put on trial for it is a bit much.

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Guest Sparoism

I'm just waiting for a "filthy trickster Jew" comment.

 

This isn't a Jew thing, it's a tabloid thing.

 

But whatever, I agree...if you are a public figure then saying shit like this to reporters is not very smart.

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this is a quality quote: "You can't expect to work for the Daily Mail group and have the rest of society treat with you respect as a useful member of society, because you are not."

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fuck this shit.

fuck that dude.

if he's stupid enough to speak on such a touchy topic in such a reckless way then he deserves what he gets.

politicians are supposed to seperate their jobs from their personal beliefs for the good of the community. his dumbass needs a lesson in dipomatic speech. so let his career circle the drain.

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There are things about the British system that I find utterly stupid and incredibly authoritarian. The fact that a "Board of Standards" that can bar one from public office WITHOUT A TRIAL BEFORE A JURY OF ONE'S PEERS even exists is just too fucking disgusting.

 

What the fuck is WRONG with the British that they would put up with such bullshit? The reporter was straight out of line, acting like a little PC bitch. Good for the Mayor. He should have knocked the reporter's Jewish ass out instead of calling him a Nazi. At least then they would have a genuine crime with which to charge the Mayor, and not some whiney ass shit like this.

 

What do you expect from a nation that can't even own shotguns, for Christ sake. I would NEVER live in UK, which I'm sure doesn't bother their sorry PC asses one bit.

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Guest Sparoism

You don't live where I live, or where Kabar lives, for that matter.

 

If you did, you'd consider it, too. I have bad eyesight so a handgun is out of the question...but a shotgun? HELLLL YEAH!!!

 

If we get broken into, I'd just tell my girlfriend to get behind me and put her fingers in her ears....then make robber-flavored Hamburger Helper.

 

Back on topic- this is an argument where both sides are wrong, and if mutual apologies were made, everything could be smoothed over.

 

This is 2005, however, so they're gonna fight it out. What happened to British civility?

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Guest KING BLING

George Orwell park in London is 100% under video surveillance

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Originally posted by KaBar2@Dec 20 2005, 09:25 AM

What do you expect from a nation that can't even own shotguns, for Christ sake. I would NEVER live in UK, which I'm sure doesn't bother their sorry PC asses one bit.

 

yeh, i know what you mean.

i hate with a passion living in a country with:

 

- free healthcare

- good education

- schools where kids dont have to worry about being shot by a classmate.

- a government which isnt totally fucked up the arse.

- without the threat of hurricanes and earthquakes

- without knowing the fact that 90% of the rest of the world hates us.

 

shall i continue?

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yeah it was dumb for the guy to say. but if the reporter found it offensive to be compared to a nazi ,then why the fuck does he work at an organisation that had links to the nazi party?

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Originally posted by Sparoism@Dec 20 2005, 04:44 PM

You don't live where I live, or where Kabar lives, for that matter.

 

If you did, you'd consider it, too. I have bad eyesight so a handgun is out of the question...but a shotgun? HELLLL YEAH!!!

 

If we get broken into, I'd just tell my girlfriend to get behind me and put her fingers in her ears....then make robber-flavored Hamburger Helper.

 

Back on topic- this is an argument where both sides are wrong, and if mutual apologies were made, everything could be smoothed over.

 

This is 2005, however, so they're gonna fight it out. What happened to British civility?

 

where the fuck do you live, iraq?

how many times have you been broken into?

late breaking news, frontier justice faded with the frontier.

there are no more injuns to raid your caravan.

i love paranoid people with guns.

man, i even have friends that been shot and i still won't buy a fucking gun. TERROR ALERT ORANGE.

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Originally posted by MrJackDaniels+Dec 21 2005, 02:11 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrJackDaniels - Dec 21 2005, 02:11 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-KaBar2@Dec 20 2005, 09:25 AM

What do you expect from a nation that can't even own shotguns, for Christ sake.  I would NEVER live in UK, which I'm sure doesn't bother their sorry PC asses one bit.

 

yeh, i know what you mean.

i hate with a passion living in a country with:

 

- free healthcare

- good education

- schools where kids dont have to worry about being shot by a classmate.

- a government which isnt totally fucked up the arse.

- without the threat of hurricanes and earthquakes

- without knowing the fact that 90% of the rest of the world hates us.

 

shall i continue?

[/b]

 

ha, ha touche' pussycat touche'

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Guest Sparoism
Originally posted by gasfacevictm+Dec 20 2005, 06:25 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gasfacevictm - Dec 20 2005, 06:25 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Sparoism@Dec 20 2005, 04:44 PM

You don't live where I live, or where Kabar lives, for that matter.

 

If you did, you'd consider it, too. I have bad eyesight so a handgun is out of the question...but a shotgun? HELLLL YEAH!!!

 

If we get broken into, I'd just tell my girlfriend to get behind me and put her fingers in her ears....then make robber-flavored Hamburger Helper.

 

Back on topic- this is an argument where both sides are wrong, and if mutual apologies were made, everything could be smoothed over.

 

This is 2005, however, so they're gonna fight it out. What happened to British civility?

 

where the fuck do you live, iraq?

how many times have you been broken into?

late breaking news, frontier justice faded with the frontier.

there are no more injuns to raid your caravan.

i love paranoid people with guns.

man, i even have friends that been shot and i still won't buy a fucking gun. TERROR ALERT ORANGE.

[/b]

I'll answer your questions in order-

 

I live in Oakland. And, not in Rockridge or Montclair...Two blocks away from the Dirty Thirties. They've had 15% of the murders in Oakland this year occur in that little slice of heaven.

 

Three times in as many years in Oakland. My girlfriend was robbed at gunpoint by "two big, scary black dudes" six months ago less than three blocks from where I type this, plus I live next door to a house full of junkies and tweakers...when I lived in San Francisco in 2004, we had a crackhead ex-roommate we threw out break in 22 times in 2 months. NO police intervention. So, one night, we beat the shit out of him with a 2x4 and I stomped his bike into modern art. Then, we went to his hotel, caught up with him there, and pepper sprayed him as he was walking up to the door with a broken arm. He skipped town after that.

 

This IS the frontier...I LIVE IN THE GHETTO. If you want it bad enough to take it, and you are big enough or crazy enough to try to take it, it's open season. That's the way it works here. Plus, we don't call them injuns, or niggers. They're just plain fucked up, and need to be handled.

 

I'm not paranoid, just aware and ready. And, the cops aren't gonna get here fast enough to save my honky ass if Nasty Nate decides to pay me a surprise visit. I watched this chick get the SHIT slapped out of her by some punk, and he walked right past the cops as they were coming to take the report. My faith does not lie with the police in ANY way. And, just to bring it on home- when my girlfriend was robbed, we filed a report (she did it for insurance purposes, but I just wanted to see of I could maybe find out where they were from) and have not heard WORD ONE since June. More confidence inspiration.

 

I'm getting my license to have a gun next year, fuck what my girlfriend says. If she doesn't like it, she can move back to SF with all the hipsters. I want to be READY.

 

I have friends who have been shot, too...what a country, right? And, it's such a great country that probably in the next five to ten years you won't even be ABLE to own ANY kind of gun, for ANY reason. So, by choice, you are WAY ahead of the curve.

 

I don't know where you live, or what you do. I don't really care, either. It's your choice not to protect yourself, and it's my right to do so.

 

I'm buying a shotgun so I don't have the temptation to carry it. I ride my bike everywhere, and my name is not Mad Max...I can't exactly just strap it to my back and whistle a happy tune, feeling safe and shit.

 

So, that's the deal. I don't know exactly what you indended to prove, other than the fact that you didn't have the whole story. Now you do. Do you feel the same way now? If so, then best of luck to you. You may need it someday. I hope not, but criminals don't respect high ideals, they respect FORCE. It's up to you if you want to face that.

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Guest Sparoism

Sorry about the threadjack, but MAN....maybe I should have said something, but DUDE. Seriously.

 

Fuck, by the time I'm Kabar's age, I'll be running my own country somewhere in the woods in Montana.

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Originally posted by Sparoism@Dec 21 2005, 05:26 AM

I'm buying a shotgun so I don't have the temptation to carry it. I ride my bike everywhere, and my name is not Mad Max...I can't exactly just strap it to my back and whistle a happy tune, feeling safe and shit.

But man, how fucking cool would it be if you did?

Thumbs up on the post.

 

Gun control is a fucked issue with no real answer. Not everyone lives in the city, and they definitely need to be able to protect themselves. What it comes down to for me is the fact you can't uninvent the gun. Criminals will still be using them even if they are outlawed, and then law-abiding citizens are fucked.

 

This thread reminds me of the Bill Hicks bit about crime in England.

'We're the hooligans'

 

Your politicians call people names? UH OH! American politicians are gangster. They start wars and coordinate torture efforts under the table.

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ok ok, so you live in the ghetto. i've been staying in all types of neighborhoods in the norteast throughout my life. some good, many bad. i just don't see the need to buy a gun even if they are that dangerous.

 

you been robbed X amount of times? move.

your neighbors are methheads and junkies? move.

not trying to judge you here but in all reality, if you shoot someone you very well may end up in prison for the rest of your life.

 

and i know, if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have gun and blah blah blah...and the constitution gives you the "right" to own one but that shit was written over 200 years ago when the threat of foreign hordes was imminent.

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There we go. Running away is the ultimate solution.

 

Fuck the constitution, address the outlawed guns issue. How do you get around that? Just up the penalty for people caught with guns?

 

What about hunters? Can they still have rifles?

 

And again, what about the people who live in the country? The police can't teleport to help you, and by the time the make the drive, your grandparents have been butchered by some psycho.

 

What fucking good is moving, anyway? Trouble can follow.

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Originally posted by Sparoism@Dec 21 2005, 10:26 PM

Plus, we don't call them injuns, or niggers. They're just plain fucked up, and need to be handled.

obviously a man of great culture

:rolleyes:

 

and kabar has it struck you that if you lived in england you probably wouldnt need a shotgun in the first place.

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uh...i guess i'm missing something here, but let's see...

sparoism, from the sounds of it you're a white honky living in the

most ghetto black part of oakland. plus your

fragile female counterpart got the shit scared out of her from 2

black thugs. and now you want a gun.

like i said, i must be missing something....otherwise you're terrible

at math.

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I see where shai's comming from but im of the oppinion that buying a gun is asking for trouble. Yeh moving may be an option if you have the cash but some people dont. You dont have to endure the grimy and gritty to have rep. nothings wrong with making it out of the ghettos.

 

In short: Leave if you can, handle your business, and most importantly be safe.

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Originally posted by Krakatau@Dec 22 2005, 07:27 PM

There we go. Running away is the ultimate solution.

 

 

What fucking good is moving, anyway? Trouble can follow.

 

 

why stay if it's that bad?

what are you gonna fix the neighborhood up?

cutting your losses is not running away.

it's practical.

not everyone can be Buford Pusser.

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Originally posted by gasfacevictm@Dec 23 2005, 07:14 PM

why stay if it's that bad?

what are you gonna fix the neighborhood up?

cutting your losses is not running away.

it's practical.

not everyone can be Buford Pusser.

I don't think leaving is impractical at all, but it still doesn't solve the problem that crime can leave the ghetto, guns in tow. And yeah, I would consider blowing the chest out of some thug ass punk who thinks stealing my tv is a better idea than buying his own improving the neighborhood.

 

You still didn't answer my other point by the way.

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