Stan Tookie Williams: founder of the crips

[Guest Sparoism]

I'm done. Good night.

[dumy]

Originally posted by Sparoism@Dec 13 2005, 03:12 AM

How many of you guys live in California?

 

I'm wondering what's going to happen a few hours from now.

Quoted post

 

 

I'm thinking its 50/50..but then again, I don't live in Cali so my opinion could mean shit.

[Yellow Feets]

This discussion is a bit too delicate for me to even debate. Considering all the sources given via the net, it's hard to even put all the pieces together without any misconceptions. I guess in an ideal society, all sins commited would be cleared away and life would go on. But that's not likely to happen anytime soon...

 

I would like to know why he hasn't apologized for the deaths. Maybe he's holding out on something. Then again, maybe he's too ashamed to even speak on the subject. Whatever the reason, lives were taken away and they cannot be replace.

 

 

Just think of the possibilities though. Let's say the miraculous decision of sparing his life was considered. And then sometime along the line, say another 20 years from now, he dies in his cell. And right before he dies he leaves a note stating that while he was in prison he was still affiliated with several drug trafficking(s) events and heinous crimes that took place between now and the time of his death 20 years from now.

 

OR

 

We go through with the existing decision (death penalty) and he dies. And then we found out that we was actually innocent.

[Yellow Feets]

^I'm about 3 pages too late.

[John Birch]

I just had a revelation: I think I now support the death penalty again. Back in the 1800s America, you could legally paint trains, fuck prostitutes and smoke opium and weed and sniff cocaine. You could aslo be hanged for stealing a horse. I'm willing to make the trade-off...

[SoZe42]

Well I know I'm late (stop your crying cuz' I'm finally here...)

RIP tookie you could live cause you killed those folks.

specially the ones he killed with the shotgun.. wow

he probably wanted to see that thing again but no oh no

tookie your time as ended, like my will begin hehehe...

[mr.yuck]

I wonder what kind of riots are about to explode. It's always fucked up when some one kills the team mascot.

[SoZe42]

Is It?

[mr.yuck]

Its like when they kidnapped the dolphin in Ace Ventura. That fool went ape shit.

[SoZe42]

ah yes Mr.Jim funny ape shit I say...

[earmuffs]

i hated that fucking movie

[2 blaazed]

SAN QUENTIN, California (CNN) -- Stanley Tookie Williams -- the co-founder of the violent Crips street gang who became an anti-gang crusader while on death row -- died by lethal injection early Tuesday for the 1979 killings of four people in two Los Angles robberies.

 

Terry Thornton, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, said the unofficial time of death was 12:35 a.m. (3:35 a.m. ET).

 

Williams, 51, while acknowledging he had a violent past, had maintained he was innocent in the slayings.

 

It marked the second execution in California this year, and just the 12th since the death penalty was reinstated in the 1970s.

 

Williams' case set off intense debates over the death penalty and redemption, with celebrities, activists and anti-death penalty advocates saying his initiatives and anti-gang message from behind bars had proven his life was worth saving. He had even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize in Literature by an array of college professors, a Swiss lawmaker and others.

 

Seventeen reporters witnessed the execution and gave their accounts afterward.

 

The process of inserting the IVs to administer the lethal chemicals took about 20 minutes, with staff having particular difficulty getting a needle into Williams' left arm.

 

Crystal Carreon of the Sacramento Bee newspaper said Williams was restless during the preparations -- a sentiment echoed by San Quentin State Prison Warden Steven Ornoski.

 

"He did seemed frustrated that it didn't go as quickly as he thought it might," Ornoski.

 

A crowd of demonstrators began gathering outside the gates of the prison early Monday evening, with celebrities, activists and anti-death-penalty advocates pleading for Williams' life to be spared.

 

"I am saddened that we are continuing to demean human life by pretending that we are God and making determinations to kill other individuals for what it is claimed they have done," former "M*A*S*H" star and death penalty opponent Mike Farrell told CNN.

 

The execution process began at 12:01 a.m. (3:01 a.m. ET) in the execution chamber at San Quentin -- 34 minutes later, prison officials confirmed Williams had died.

 

The announcement of Williams' death was punctuated in the witness gallery by three of his invited supporters, who shouted in unison, "The state of Californian just killed an innocent man," as they exited.

 

Minutes earlier in the gallery, reporters said at least one of the three had given Williams a raised fist salute.

 

The execution went ahead as scheduled after the U.S. Supreme Court late Monday rejected a last-ditch appeal.

 

The high court's ruling followed California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's decision to deny clemency for Williams.

 

"Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second-guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' convictions and death sentence," Schwarzenegger said in a five-page statement explaining his decision.

 

Before Williams went to the execution chamber, the stepmother of one of the men Williams was convicted of killing said she felt "justice is going to be done tonight."

 

"I had faith that when Governor Arnold looked at the facts of the case that he was going to decide not to do clemency," said Lora Owens, whose stepson, Albert Owens, was shot to death in a convenience store holdup. "I don't like it being said it's a political decision. It was an evidence decision."

 

Williams had maintained his innocence since his arrest and conviction in the brutal 1979 slayings. He had denounced gang violence and written children's books with an anti-gang message, donating the proceeds to anti-gang community groups.

 

As Williams was being moved to a holding cell next to the death chamber Monday evening, his lead attorney, John Harris, had said the convict was "at peace."

 

His lawyers late Monday filed another request for clemency from Schwarzenegger, citing the statements of three new witnesses Harris said could provide exculpatory evidence. That request was also denied.

 

Protesters for and against the death penalty gathered outside the gates of San Quentin early Monday evening.

 

Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, who visited with Williams, said Schwarzenegger decided "to choose revenge over redemption and to use Tookie Williams as a trophy in the flawed system."

 

"To kill him is a way of making politicians look tough," Jackson said. "It does not make it right. It does not make any of us safer. It does not make any of us more secure."

 

And Sister Helen Prejean, a Roman Catholic nun and a prominent death penalty opponent, compared the death penalty to "gang justice."

 

"Gang justice is, if you kill a member of our gang, we kill you -- and don't tell me anything about how you changed your life or what you're going to do," she said. "You kill, and we kill you. And that's what the United States of America is doing with this."

 

But Schwarzenegger questioned the sincerity of Williams' conversion to nonviolence.

 

"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption."

 

He added: "In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do."

 

Williams was sentenced to death in 1981 in the killing of Owens, a 26-year-old Los Angeles convenience store clerk, in February 1979. The clerk was shot twice in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun while face-down on the floor.

 

Less than two weeks later, jurors concluded, Williams killed an immigrant Chinese couple and their 41-year-old daughter while stealing less than $100 in cash from their motel. Part of the daughter's head was blown off in the shooting.

 

Robert Martin, one of the prosecutors who sent Williams to prison, said the courts "have scrutinized this from every angle and they've found that the evidence is rock solid." He questioned whether there was any moral equivalence "between co-authoring some children's books and the senseless murder of four people in cold blood."

 

"The books will live on," Martin told CNN. "We have many authors who have died, and their books are still in print. And if they have any good effect, that can continue. So I don't believe that that is a conclusive argument."

 

Williams' lawyers went to the Supreme Court after the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected an affidavit that suggested the one-time gang leader was framed for the four killings.

 

Gordon Bradbury von Ellerman, a jail trusty who had been held with Williams in the Los Angeles County Jail from 1979 to 1980, stated he was the cellmate of another trusty, identified as George "Roger" Oglesby. Von Ellerman states that Los Angeles Sheriff's Department personnel provided Oglesby with documents to aid him in testifying against Williams in return for reduced or dropped charges.

 

"I was personally aware that Los Angeles Sheriff's Department personnel would often provide information to these inmates so that they could help frame defendants for crimes," he said in the statement.

 

The San Francisco-based 9th Circuit rejected that petition Monday afternoon, arguing that Williams and his lawyers failed to present enough evidence of innocence to block the execution.

[Harvey Wallbanger]

Schwarzenegger decided "to choose revenge over redemption and to use Tookie Williams as a trophy in the flawed system."

 

"To kill him is a way of making politicians look tough," Jackson said. "It does not make it right. It does not make any of us safer. It does not make any of us more secure."

 

And Sister Helen Prejean, a Roman Catholic nun and a prominent death penalty opponent, compared the death penalty to "gang justice."

 

"Gang justice is, if you kill a member of our gang, we kill you -- and don't tell me anything about how you changed your life or what you're going to do," she said. "You kill, and we kill you. And that's what the United States of America is doing with this."

 

 

 

 

 

I guess we'll all sleep a little better tonight.

[iliveinavagina]

Did you expect more...

:haha: :haha: :haha:

We live in a moral dictatorship having color or no money is in itself a mechanism of being immoral. lol :five-o: :five-o: :five-o:

[KiLL Or DiE]

Originally posted by mr.yuck@Dec 13 2005, 02:55 AM

I wonder what kind of riots are about to explode. .

Quoted post

 

I was wondering the same thing...Anyways, at the press conference one of the witness look really familiar..

 

 

Steve Butabi from a Night at the Roxbury..

[Politics&Bullshit]

FUCK THE DEATH PENALTY

[GLIK$]

Its all good, just think about how many new T-Shirt designs ya'll nerds can buy now with Tookie on em!

[beardofzeus]

Originally posted by Politics&Bullshit@Dec 13 2005, 06:24 AM

FUCK THE DEATH PENALTY

Quoted post

FUCK MURDERERS, RAPISTS, and CHILD MOLESTORS. Some people need to face the consequences of their actions.

[Guest Sparoism]

It's all moral relativism.

 

The new rules should be, "It's okay to kill people as long as you are the elected representative of a state and doing your job."

 

Even the Austrians are pissed off at Arnie. He screwed the pooch, big time.

 

OR, we could handle executions much as the Romans did. Throw 'em in with the lions, and when they manage to fight their asses off to survive, have Caesar hold a hankerchief over their heads and ask the crowd. Thumbs up? Life in prison/exoneration. Thumbs down? Buh-bye. There's an appeal process that actually works.

 

Oh, and RIP, Tookie.

[Guest Sparoism]

Vatican Condemns Williams Execution; Austrians Critical Of Schwarzenegger

 

POSTED: 6:56 am PST December 13, 2005

VIENNA, Austria -- California's execution of Stanley Tookie Williams on Tuesday outraged many in Europe who regard the practice as barbaric, and politicians in Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's native Austria called for his name to be removed from a sports stadium in his hometown.

 

At the Vatican, Pope Benedict XVI's top official for justice matters denounced the death penalty for going against redemption and human dignity.

 

"We know the death penalty doesn't resolve anything," Cardinal Renato Martino told AP Television News. "Even a criminal is worthy of respect because he is a human being. The death penalty is a negation of human dignity."

 

Capital punishment is illegal throughout the European Union, and many Europeans consider state-sponsored executions to be barbaric. Those feelings were amplified in the case of Williams, due to the apparent remorse they believe the Crips gang co-founder showed by writing children's books about the dangers of gangs and violence.

 

Leaders of Austria's pacifist Green Party went as far as to call for Schwarzenegger to be stripped of his Austrian citizenship -- a demand that was quickly rejected by Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel despite his government's opposition to the death penalty.

 

"Whoever, out of political calculation, allows the death of a person rehabilitated in such an exemplary manner has rejected the basic values of Austrian society," said Peter Pilz, a Greens leader.

 

In Schwarzenegger's hometown of Graz, local Greens said they would file a petition to remove his name from the southern city's sports stadium. A Christian political group went even further, suggesting it be renamed the "Stanley Tookie Williams Stadium."

 

"Mr. Williams had converted, and unlike Mr. Schwarzenegger, opposed every form of violence," said Richard Schadauer, the chairman of the Association of Christianity and Social Democracy.

 

Williams was executed early Tuesday at California's San Quentin State Prison after Schwarzenegger denied Williams' request for clemency. Schwarzenegger suggested that Williams' supposed change of heart was not genuine because he had not shown any real remorse for the killings committed by the Crips.

 

Criticism came quickly from many quarters, including the Socialist Party in France, where the death penalty was abolished in 1981.

 

"I am proud to be a Frenchman," party spokesman Julien Dray told RTL radio. "I am proud to live in France, in a country where we don't execute somebody 21 years later."

 

"Schwarzenegger has a lot of muscles, but apparently not much heart," Dray said.

 

In Italy, the country's chapter of Amnesty International called the execution "a cold-blooded murder."

 

"His execution is a slap in the face to the principle of rehabilitation of inmates, an inhumane and inclement act toward a person who, with his exemplary behavior and his activity in favor of street kids, had become an important figure and a symbol of hope for many youths," the group said.

 

In Germany, Volker Beck, a leading member of the opposition Greens party, expressed disappointment. "Schwarzenegger's decision is a cowardly decision," Beck told the Netzeitung online newspaper.

 

From London, Clive Stafford-Smith, a human rights attorney specializing in death penalty cases, called the execution "very sad."

 

"He was twice as old as when they sentenced him to die, and he certainly wasn't the same person that he was when he was sentenced," Stafford-Smith said.

 

Rome Mayor Walter Veltroni said the city would keep Williams in its memory the next time it celebrates a victory against the death penalty somewhere in the world.

 

Rome's Colosseum, once the arena for deadly gladiator combat and executions, has become a symbol of Italy's anti-death penalty stance. Since 1999, the monument has been bathed in golden light every time a death sentence is commuted somewhere in the world or a country abolishes capital punishment.

 

"I hope there will be such an occasion soon," Veltroni said in a statement. "When it happens, we will do it with a special thought for Tookie."

 

----------------------

 

HAHAHAHA...they want to rename the stadium after Tookie. DA-yum.

[Gat Bush]

RIP

[Overtime]

Good, now lets get more

[MEROJUANA]

"He is our secret weapon to help young African-Americans avoid gangs," Gordon continued. "We want to save his life so he can save the lives of others."

 

WHITE GUY 1: WAIT, WE WANT NIGGERS TO KEEP KILLING EACHOTHER, LETS KILL THIS GUY AND START TONS OF NIGGERIOTING!

 

WHITE GUY 2: EXCELLENT IDEA MR. CAUCUS! *TIPS SAM ADAMS*

 

 

THEY SHOULDNT EXECUTE THIS CAT B. IM TOTALLY AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY, ITS 2005 NIGGA, IT AINT 1345 WHERE YOU FUCK UP AND NIGGAS CHOP YOUR HEAD OFF. THE NIGGAS GONNA DIE ANYWAY, LOOK WHO YOU FUCKING RETARD NIGGAS CHOSE TO BE THE GOVERNOR OF YOUR FUCKING STATE B. ARNOLD FUCKING SCHWARZENEGGER. ARE YOU SERIOUS B? I CANT RESPECT NOTHING COMING OUTTA CALI NO MORE. ESPECIALLY SOME CORNY SHIT LIKE THIS. YOU ALREADY SPENT A GAZILLION DOLLARS KEEPING THE NIGGA IN JAIL AND NOW YOUR GONNA PULL THE PLUG ON HIM? JAIL IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR REHABILITATION AND IF YOU SIT A NIGGA IN A TINY ROOM FOR X AMMOUNT OF TIME HE'S EITHER GONNA GO CRAZY OR REHABILITATE, WHY YOU THINK ALOT OF THESE NIGGAS THAT DO STRETCHES COME OUT ON SOME RELIGIOUS SHIT AND JUST SIT AT HOME AND READ THE BIBLE OR KORAN OR WHATEVER? (I KNOW AT LEAST 5 AND ONE OF EM IS MY UNCLE) IM NOT SAYING A YEAR OR TWO, IM SAYING A NIGGA THAT DID 10-20 JOINTS ISNT GONNA COME OUT AND DO SOME SHIT TO LAND HIM BACK IN JAIL, I KNOW I WOULDNT.

 

 

 

MERO

[Guest Sparoism]

I actually voted AGAINST the recall. I saw this coming, and like I said, once he threw his hat in the ring, I KNEW some shady shit was gonna go down.

 

He hasn't delivered on ONE thing since he was elected. He was actually elected, BTW...which is a good and bad thing simultaneously.

 

That's some sad truth there, Mero. The reason these kids kill themselves are too numerous to list here....but, when you don't have jobs for anyone in the hood, they're gonna do whatever they have to do to get by...rob or sling drugs are at the top of the short list of career paths available to a lot of black teens in the ghetto. You live in the BX, so I know this isn't news to you.

[Tough Love]

this thread is irrelevant

i do believe he is now gone, so any discussion is completely pointless

[Guest Sparoism]

I don't agree. If we stop talking about this, then we're just sweeping the debate under the rug.

 

We NEED to be talking about this. Unless you want your kids to inherit an even crueler world than the one you currently live in.

[!@#$%]

<------snoring

[Guest Sparoism]

HOOOOOOO-kay. If I'm the only one who thinks this is important, then I'll spend less time here and more time volunteering at afterschool programs in the hood.

 

I'm sure it would be time MUCH better spent, BTW.

 

Then, I'll talk about that here.

 

Seriously, symbols...you spent time working in NOLA...you've seen the effects of the society that we live in FIRST HAND. I would have expected a little bit more compassion from someone in your shoes.

 

I don't agree...we CAN'T sleep on this.

[Antron]

 

RIP.

[Tyler Durden]

Originally posted by Tough Love@Dec 13 2005, 02:31 PM

this thread is irrelevant

i do believe he is now gone, so any discussion is completely pointless

Quoted post

 

 

Of course. Lets stop discussing it. Brilliant.

So, while we're at it, lets stop collecting any sort of money for hurricane victims, tsunami victims, etc.... because the storm has indeed passed.

 

 

Of course this delves into deeper issues:

 

Parents who cant properly care for their children as a result of not having an education to rely on, therefore their children are orphaned by the parents having to work shitty, minimum wage jobs, every waking hour.

 

The prison industry in our country.

 

The death penalty being an effective detterent towards committing crimes.

 

The majority of our "elected representatives" being completely inept.

 

The reasons that gangs were able to become such a massive problem in the first place. (See also: Crack.)

 

And so on, and so forth...

 

 

Personally, it sounds like the case against the guy was shaky.... but whatever, let's assume he did it (something tells me he most likely did....). He goes to prison, and actually changes his ways. He's attempted to do things to help show kids a different way.... Does he deserve to be able to be free and out in the general population? Probably not. If he committed the crimes, then yes, it's completely reasonable to want him to stay in prison for the rest of his life for the sake of his victims families. The way I see it, and the way I would hopefully be able to see it as one of the victims family members, is that it would be far more beneficial to everyone to see him spend the rest of his life in prison dedicating his remaining years to educating children and attempting to give something back to the world. He's not out enjoying himself. He's not making money off any of it. He's spending the rest of his life in penance (sp?)

 

At any rate, how many 50+ year old people are the same people they were at 17?

 

 

Everything Sparoism posted is very on point, as well as Meros post.

Kudos.