geezpot Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Seriously the guy has been on death row for over 30 years, what's the hold up. He should've been executed 29 years ago. Innocent tax payers have been paying to keep this guy alive in prison. Who cares if he wrote some books, Charles Manson writes music and I'm not toe tapping. :hatred: <this emoticon best describes the above statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainter Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 fuck Jesse Jackson defending his ass Put his sorry ass on the table with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainter Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by geezpot@Dec 13 2005, 12:16 AM Seriously the guy has been on death row for over 30 years, what's the hold up. He should've been executed 29 years ago. Innocent tax payers have been paying to keep this guy alive in prison. Who cares if he wrote some books, Charles Manson writes music and I'm not toe tapping. :hatred: <this emoticon best describes the above statement. Quoted post he also paints his shits good too look it up on ebay charles manson that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I'm against the death penalty. Getting blood on your hands because of someone else doing the same thing doesn't solve anything. I sympathize with the families of the victims of convicts on death row but it really strikes the wrong chord with me when those same people seek closure through death as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainter Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Do on to others as they do on to you!!! reverse that shit Do on to the one who did it to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 2 hours and 40 minutes tookie i wonder if he'll read a statement before he dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isor357 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 rip. most of us are seriel criminals in the eyes of the law. Would any of you write childrens books against catching tags If this guy was released into general population i really doubt he would reoffend in any way shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Birch Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund@Dec 13 2005, 05:25 AM 2 hours and 40 minutes tookie i wonder if he'll read a statement before he dies. Quoted post better off dead fuck, I don't know how to do it... I want to post the ice cube song "better off dead" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Wallbanger Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 SAN QUENTIN, California (AP) -- Stanley Tookie Williams passes the defunct gas chamber on his way to greet the politicians, celebrities and journalists clamoring to meet with him as his date with death draws near. Now 51, Williams might not see 52 with his execution by injection set December 13. "Of course I want to live," he says when pressed, overcoming his reluctance to talk, making a last-ditch effort to save his own life by telling his story to strangers. Williams said his life is now in others' hands and he will accept whatever fate comes his way. "I haven't had a lot of joy in my life. But in here," he says, pointing to his heart, "I'm happy. I am peaceful in here. I am joyful in here." Williams says he's not the same person who arrived at death row 24 years ago hell bent on stirring up trouble. Visitors line up to speak with a man lauded for efforts to quell violence and lambasted for founding one of the nation's most notorious street gangs. Supporters rally to spare his life. Critics, dismissing his claims of reforming, lobby the governor to put him to death. (Watch his allies and victims -- 3:02) A changed man? Williams says he's not the same man who co-founded the Crips, not the man convicted of blowing four people away with a shotgun in 1979 during robberies that netted little more than gas money. "There is no part of me that existed then that exists now," says Williams, who with his trim gray beard and rimless glasses looks far less menacing than the muscle-bound defendant who was bursting out of his suit during trial. He claims he has redeemed himself through a dozen years of good deeds: writing books encouraging kids to stay out of gangs; making speeches by phone to church, school and community groups about avoiding pitfalls that lead to gangster life; creating a "peace protocol" that brought a truce between rival gangs in New Jersey. He's been nominated for the Nobel peace and literature prizes by a Swiss lawmaker, college professors and others, and has become a beacon of hope to troubled youths. But plenty of other people remain skeptical. Crime victims and prison officials say he's a self-serving charlatan who refuses to take responsibility for his crimes, rejects the opportunity to help authorities put away other gang members and benefits from a well-meaning but misguided campaign to clean up his image. Clemency hearing this week As the state's highest-profile execution in a quarter century draws near, both sides are vying to win over Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has scheduled a private clemency hearing for December 8. At the heart of the debate is whether Williams really has changed from the thug who once fed a growing drug problem with PCP-soaked cigarettes, toted a 12-gauge shotgun, and lifted weights to build enormous biceps. Born in New Orleans in 1953, Williams had a 17-year-old mother and a father who walked out before his first birthday, according to his memoir, "Blue Rage, Black Redemption" published last year. When he was 6, he and his mother rode a Greyhound bus to California and it wasn't long before he was a regular at Juvenile Hall. He admits he became a "megalomaniac ... conceited, indifferent." He beat people, robbed them, even shot at them, but says he never stuck around long enough to see if they lived or died. He didn't care. Williams arrived at San Quentin's death row on April 20, 1981. He continued his trouble-making ways during his early days in prison. "I gave this place hell," he says. As he began to educate himself and reflect on his life, he grew determined to change. Educated himself behind bars First and most importantly, he says, he developed a conscience. He read everything he could get his hands on -- the Bible, the dictionary, a thesaurus. He studied languages, theology, philosophy. He struggled to understand his past. He said he was consumed with pain and guilt "for the lives of all the Crips who had died, for the innocent black lives hurt in the crossfire, for the decades of young lives ruined for a causeless cause." By 1992, he was a changed man, he says. His courage, once based on violence and indifference, now was based on faith and redemption, he says. "The majority of the detractors and naysayers ... it's difficult for them to recognize the redemption," he says. But to family members of one of his victims, the campaign to save Williams distracts from the cold-blooded crimes he was convicted of while terrorizing Los Angeles. Cold-blooded murder spree On February 28, 1979, about 4 a.m., Williams and three friends got high on their psychedelic smokes and took two cars, a 12-gauge shotgun and a .22-caliber handgun to Pomona in search of a place to rob, according to court documents. They ended up at a 7-Eleven where Albert Owens, 26, was working the overnight shift, sweeping the parking lot. The military veteran was a "redheaded, freckle-faced kid who had the biggest smile you wanted to see," according to his older brother, Wayne Owens, 55, of Olathe, Kansas. Albert Owens said, "Take everything you want," says the now-retired prosecutor, Robert Martin, who remembers the case in detail. Williams ordered Owens into a back room at gunpoint, shot out a security monitor, then ordered, "Get down on your knees, (expletive)," and shot him twice in the back, according to testimony. Williams "later laughed about it as he was eating his hamburger," Martin says. There were no witnesses other than accomplices. Less than two weeks later, on March 11, Williams broke down the door at the Brookhaven Motel, ripping through four locks and shattering the molding, according to a prosecutor. Killed were Yen-I Yang, 76; his wife, Tsai-Shai Yang, 63, and their visiting daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, 43. The Taiwanese immigrants were about to sell the business because the neighborhood had become too rough, Martin said. Insists he's innocent Again, there were no surviving witnesses. Three of Williams' friends -- all with criminal histories and motivation to lie, Williams says -- testified that he confessed to them. A ballistics expert linked a shotgun shell at the motel to Williams' gun. Williams maintains he's innocent despite several unsuccessful appeals. His conviction took him off the street, but failed to halt the growth of the Crips he had founded in 1971 when he and Raymond Washington, a high school friend, formed a gang they called the Cribs. Drunken members routinely mispronounced it as "Crips" and the misnomer stuck. From behind bars he watched as the neighborhood gang he helped form grew into a nationwide, drug-dealing criminal organization responsible for thousands of deaths. One of his two sons, Stanley Williams Jr., joined the gang and is now serving time for second-degree murder. Prison officials said recently that they believe the elder Williams is still involved in the gang, calling shots from the prison, though they acknowledged they don't have hard evidence. "A con always will say one thing to you while the whole time he has another agenda," prison spokesman Vernell Crittendon said. "I'm concerned that possibly this marketing that's going on ... leads the public to hear the words, but not to see that sleight of hand." Wrote 'Tookie Speaks Out' books for kids The effort to save Williams is headed by Barbara Becnel, a former journalist who helped him write a series of eight books called "Tookie Speaks Out," targeted at children in kindergarten through fourth grade, about the dangers of gangs. Williams wrote a few pages at a time, then dictated them during 15-minute phone calls to Becnel. They also collaborated on "Life in Prison," for older children. Proceeds go to nonprofit agencies committed to helping troubled youth. His clememcy supporters include Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, actor Jamie Foxx, who played Williams in "Redemption," a 2004 movie about the inmate's life, rapper Snoop Dogg and the Rev. Jesse Jackson. Williams' petition begs Schwarzenegger to see him as he is now, not as he was in 1979. "This is a petition which seeks to spare the life of one man who has lifted himself up from the furthest depths, and whose redemption is a beacon of hope to others," his lawyers wrote. The Los Angeles district attorney has asked the governor not to halt the execution, and crime victims have organized a campaign to write or call the governor opposing mercy. "There are a lot of people who would like the public to forget there was a victim," said Albert Owens' stepmother, Lora Owens. "It's because it wasn't their loved one." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 This is too much. I was away from the oz. for almost two years, and when I came back, I was amazed at how much it anda lot of the people that were on it had matured. I go away for a month, and now some folks are talking about hating Jews and the logic behind killing big, scary black dudes who actually tried (admittedly, after starting the Crips and a few murders) to do some good. So, if you guys are really all about "fuck the system", how exactly does the death penalty fit in to your collective worldview? And, what does killing killers prove? That killing is wrong? If Bush says it, everyone gets freaked out but Arnie- oh, fuck, man, that's cool. Maybe Arnie and Tookie should just go head to head for three rounds and pound the shit outta each other...let that settle shit. I bet EVERYONE would get a kick outta THAT. I USED TO WORK WITH A MURDERER. He did 12 years, and he knew what he did was terribly wrong, wrong to the point where reparations could never be made. He was also one of the most levelheaded and chill guys on the staff. Should they have killed him to prove a point? Maybe that could be something like- you can rehabilitate anyone- look at all these prisons we build!- except a killer, so we have mandated that they shall die so the world can be a better, safer place. IF YOU KILL SOMEONE, AS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A REPRESENTATIVE OF A STATE, THERE IS BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. In war, or peace. Doesn't matter. And, it's funny how no one wants to discuss the fact how, if we're supposed to get past wanting to kill people for oil/geopolitical gain, we can start learning a few lessons right here at home. The only reason this gets to me is that we front like we're the "leaders of the free world", and that we have to set these "high" standards for the rest of the world to live by. However, we're some of the most rapacious barbarians to EVER come along. How many wars are we in? How many of our own have we sacrificed, and will continue to sacrifice? Motherfucker, please. Be honest- we're no different, we just have extremely expensive taste and delusions of grandeur. I'm gonna be pissed if there AREN'T a few riots tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONHEAD Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 fuck him. he'll never counteract the violence and destruction he helped create with a few books. i know this is a stretch, but for real some of the nazi's in the nurenburg trials had remorse but they were still guilty and i hope they are burning in hell regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 POOR taste, at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpyD Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 hey, just kill everyone, that way nobody can complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparoism Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 By the way, I'm not some liberal kook trying to pretend that everything should be cotton candy blowjobs for everyone...but GODDAMN, if we aren't some of the biggest hypocrites history has ever created. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."- Noted wifebeater, Mahatma Gandhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Wallbanger Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Word. It's really frustrating that they continue to claim that the purpose of our judicial system in America is to rehabilitate, not punish, criminals. If that was actually the case, it would be insanely hypocritical to murder the people who they claimed to be trying to reform. Yeah, it fucking sucks that four people are dead. I guess it would be better if five people were dead, huh? Nobody is saying that we should set this guy free with a pocketful of gift certificates for free fucking ice cream cones. But I think it makes sense to let him continue working towards his goal of eradicating gang violence and educating young people about the perils of a life of crime. At this point, killing him will not accomplish anything besides preventing the spread of his anti-gang message. Sorry, but that is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by dumy@Dec 13 2005, 12:19 AM I'm against the death penalty. Getting blood on your hands because of someone else doing the same thing doesn't solve anything. I sympathize with the families of the victims of convicts on death row but it really strikes the wrong chord with me when those same people seek closure through death as well. Quoted post qouting myself in support of the intelligent people on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONHEAD Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 all you have to do is put the lives of the four people he was "convicted" of killing into your life. say he killed four people from your immediate family. then tell me if you think he deserves to live because he is "rehabilitated" and wrote a couple childrens books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezpot Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Maybe he should have thought about his anti gang message over 30 years ago before founding one of the most ruthless gangs in the USA, think of all the innocent victims that have fallen because of his indirect gang violence from creating a cult of gang bangers. :shook: <this emoticon best describes the above statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shape1369 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 already posted... nevermind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tough Love Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 WELL it could be argued that the creation of any gangs came out of socioeconomic disadvantages and the real culprit here is capitalism. im all for that explaination but im too lazy to elaborate and argue. im not saying there is no personal responsibility, but a person acts in a social world, one where there is more influence than just how one feels that day. someone please take over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^ . ^ Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 pay respects? you were joking, right? that motherfucker is gonna burn in hell, and he deserves it without a doubt. People saying he should be pardoned wouldnt be singing the same tune if he killed one of their family members, then sat there and laughed as the person died. (yes, he did do this, but no surprise..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tough Love Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 the justice system does not focus on rehab alone. part of the principle of criminal law is punishment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^ . ^ Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 sorry. im repeating ironhead and others.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsuifuku Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Shit is ridiculous, he is about to be executed, and then you have a motherfucker like Oliver North or Henry Kissinger, responsible for tens of thousands+ deaths all over the world, and these motherfuckers are getting paid to write news editorials and lecture at colleges and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by IRONHEAD@Dec 13 2005, 01:06 AM all you have to do is put the lives of the four people he was "convicted" of killing into your life. say he killed four people from your immediate family. then tell me if you think he deserves to live because he is "rehabilitated" and wrote a couple childrens books? Quoted post IF HE MURDERED FOUR PEOPLE FROM MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY? How the fuck do you think that would make me feel? I would probably want his head on a stake..at first, but I REALLY hope, through all the madness and turmoil that would cause in me, I would still have the moral aptitude to realize that killing him wouldn't make things better, but just MAKE ME WORSE. sorry for the theatrics y'all but really, ignorant shit like that just.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackfatsoe Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Okay, the thing that gets me is, this guy is an asset to the community in a very real way. Okay, he killed four people in cold blood, he deserves the death penalty. But what about the lives he is saving with the work he is doing with gang members? Killing him might be killing 2 or 5 or 10 or more kids who could have been saved from gang life by this guy. I dont know, I cant decide, the whole thing is a mindfuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Fuck, what does he have now.... 45 minutes or so? Killing him serves no benefit. That is where I stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONHEAD Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Originally posted by dumy+Dec 13 2005, 07:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dumy - Dec 13 2005, 07:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-dumy@Dec 13 2005, 12:19 AM I'm against the death penalty. Getting blood on your hands because of someone else doing the same thing doesn't solve anything. I sympathize with the families of the victims of convicts on death row but it really strikes the wrong chord with me when those same people seek closure through death as well. Quoted post qouting myself in support of the intelligent people on this forum. Quoted post [/b] this makes perfect sense. you are intelligent because you believe that everyone has a right to stay alive and have no sort of punishment whatsoever. murderers, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, etc. well all they have to do is say "geez, im sorry, i was really wrong for sodomizing your 80 year old grandma and then cutting her into 87 pieces....you cant kill me that'd just be insane. i deserve to go back into society and make a noteworthy contribution because i am "rehabilitated"" fuck that man. if you believe in something like that i think id be a little quick to call you something other than intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The point is, he hasn't been rehabilitated. He still denies that he ever killed anyone, including the four people he was convicted of killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 good post mack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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