Is U.S. the No. 1 Rogue Nation?

[CACashRefund]

The us army has every reason to be in iraq, we want its fucking oil. Do you not understand what war and politics is?War is basically a continuatoon of political policy by other means, our political policy is to protect our interests and oil is one of those interests.

 

And its one thing to resist occupiers, its another matter altogether to kidnap innocent non combatants and behead them, bomb markets and shit.

 

 

 

*In the spirit of crossfire id like to point out you spelled retarded wrong.

 

"retart"

[POIESIS]

^likewise you must not understand just war theory and international law

and treaties related to war. the US invaded, thereby negating any sort

of authority to morals and what you can reasonably deem 'right' war

conduct and 'wrong' war conduct. also convenient to solely blame the

'terrorists' and not the impetus. you've heard the term 'flytrap' right?

[POIESIS]

also, 'in the spirit' of crossfire, you spelled continuation wrong.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Originally posted by POIESIS@Dec 3 2005, 03:48 PM

^likewise you must not understand just war theory and international law

and treaties related to war. the US invaded, thereby negating any sort

of authority to morals and what you can reasonably deem 'right' war

conduct and 'wrong' war conduct. also convenient to solely blame the

'terrorists' and not the impetus. you've heard the term 'flytrap' right?

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What he said, also adding another one 'in the spirit' of crossfire, English is my second language. How many do you speak?

[SF1]

Originally posted by LENS+Dec 3 2005, 06:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LENS - Dec 3 2005, 06:56 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by SF1@Nov 9 2005, 11:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-KaBar2@Nov 9 2005, 08:59 AM

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The fact that you condone this like it's ok to just storm a town and kill every single thing in sight, man woman and child, old and young, threat or not... shows what an evil fucking douchebag you are.

They call terrorists "cowards" for doing exactly this, and they don't have the support of body armor, tanks, state of the art equipment, an entire batalian right behind them. They also don't have the luxury of sending lazer guided bombs from miles away... therefore they usually have to sacrafice themselves in order to kill others.

If the Terrorists are "cowards" than what does that make you and your beloved Marine Corps?

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Yeah...the terrorists are such great freedom fighters....

 

Sure, let's just decapitate non-combatents on television.

 

SF1, you remind me a lot of that evil little bastard from Chuck palanhuiks Lullaby.....using a cause to excuse and subsequently forward your own little psychoptic agenda.

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[/b]

 

 

Terrorists highjack plains, terrorists go to other countries and sneak into crowds and blow up innocent people minding their own buisiness for the sake of making a political point.

These niggas running around with AK47's fighting the U.S. military in Iraq are Guerrillas fighting to defend their people from a foreign invasion, not terrorists. Get your head out your ass.

[SF1]

Originally posted by tsuifuku+Dec 3 2005, 06:53 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tsuifuku - Dec 3 2005, 06:53 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-SF1@Dec 3 2005, 12:53 PM

The Cubans that got slaughtered at the Bay of Pigs were Terrorists?

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if you are refering to the cubans who were mercenaries funded by the US government to invade cuba, then yes, they were terrorists.

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[/b]

 

You're right. That was a bad example.

[Stereotype V.001]

Tesseract (among others) seem to be relatively sympathetic to the 'freedom fighters' out there. "They are outgunned so they have to do what they have to do" definitely justifies killing hundreds of innocent civilians via the poor man's smart bomb, and pretending the insurgency is being waged by all Iraqis and not the muj.... solid reasoning.

 

There was a group of likeminded individuals driving around Iraq a week or so ago. They didn't spout off their opinions from the comfort of their homes though. No, these people went out and did something about it. Now, the poor disenfranchised Iraqis(no foreigners!), who were just doing every possible thing they could, are going to cut their heads off on Al Jazeera.

 

This means one thing- there is a job opening for you! You obviously have very strong opinions, and you now have the once of a lifetime opportunity to put your neck where your mouth is. Let me know how that goes for you.

[SF1]

Originally posted by CACashRefund@Dec 3 2005, 07:23 PM

The us army has every reason to be in iraq, we want its fucking oil. Do you not understand what war and politics is?War is basically a continuatoon of political policy by other means, our political policy is to protect our interests and oil is one of those interests.

 

And its one thing to resist occupiers, its another matter altogether to kidnap innocent non combatants and behead them, bomb markets and shit.

 

 

 

*In the spirit of crossfire id like to point out you spelled retarded wrong.

 

"retart"

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Any of them niggas that got decapitated got it because they went to Iraq while we were at war with Iraq. How the fuck you gonna go into a warzone in another country that your country is at war with and expect to be safe? Come on now. It's fucked up, but then it's also fucked up the amount of innocent civilians WE'RE murduring over there so how the fuck they suppose to feel sympathy for our people?

And I can't beleive that you actually condone taking out other countries just to loot their oil? :haha: The government makes up lies for excuses to go to war because even they know it's evil what they're doing. Oil is not in our "self interest" There's other options but the government is run by oil companies so they would rather sacrifice thousands of people (along with the health of the planet) looting other countries, than to go through the trouble of switching to something else.

 

*Also keeping in the tradition of Crossfire... what the fuck is a continuatoon??? :dunce:

[BURLAP]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 3 2005, 03:34 PM

Tesseract (among others) seem to be relatively sympathetic to the 'freedom fighters' out there. "They are outgunned so they have to do what they have to do" definitely justifies killing hundreds of innocent civilians via the poor man's smart bomb, and pretending the insurgency is being waged by all Iraqis and not the muj.... solid reasoning.

 

There was a group of likeminded individuals driving around Iraq a week or so ago. They didn't spout off their opinions from the comfort of their homes though. No, these people went out and did something about it. Now, the poor disenfranchised Iraqis(no foreigners!), who were just doing every possible thing they could, are going to cut their heads off on Al Jazeera.

 

This means one thing- there is a job opening for you! You obviously have very strong opinions, and you now have the once of a lifetime opportunity to put your neck where your mouth is. Let me know how that goes for you.

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conversely you seem to think having the mightiest military in the world justifies killing thousands of innocents under false war aims. maybe you would agree it's been turned into a terrorist flytrap....maybe you think that's a good idea and maybe you think iraqi's should be thankful for that.

operative word, 'relatively'. as in the relativity of the situation dictates that the US invaded illegally with 'shock and awe'. from that i'm not sure what YOU would expect to happen, but as most analysts noted before the invasion it was a predictable outcome. call it sympathy if it fits your agenda i guess.

[BURLAP]

the daily show's rob corddry-"de-weakening iraq"

[Stereotype V.001]

Originally posted by BURLAP@Dec 3 2005, 08:21 PM

conversely you seem to think having the mightiest military in the world justifies killing thousands of innocents under false war aims. maybe you would agree it's been turned into a terrorist flytrap....maybe you think that's a good idea and maybe you think iraqi's should be thankful for that.

operative word, 'relatively'. as in the relativity of the situation dictates that the US invaded illegally with 'shock and awe'. from that i'm not sure what YOU would expect to happen, but as most analysts noted before the invasion it was a predictable outcome. call it sympathy if it fits your agenda i guess.

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Wow, all of those big words totally validate your point. But please allow me to make a rebuttal, professor.

 

I never stated that the invasion of Iraq was at all legal. It was obviously fucking idiotic, not to mention we had multiple opportunities to have Saddam overthrown by various military officers, the kurds, in coups. But we didn't and now we are there, with no simple way out.

 

My main point was how disgusting it is when people try to justify what the insurgency does by saying 'the invasion is illegal' and pretending there isn't a large amount of attacks being carried out by foreign fighters. Nothing justifies killing hundreds of civilians in suicide bomb attacks, or cutting peace activist's heads off on TV. Don't call them "freedom fighters" or even imply that. They are fighting to instate another Iran/Afghanistan where you get executed because you have the audacity to think for yourself and 9 year old girls become wives to old men. That is not freedom in the loosest interpretation of the word.

 

Speaking of "predictable", I can't say i'm suprised someone had to put words in my mouth to make an argument. And feel free to actually look up the numbers of how many people were ACCIDENTALLY killed in US bomb strikes, and how many were DELIBERATELY killed by the wonderful Iraqi freedom opposition forces of awesomenity.

 

...I wonder how long it will be before I see kids with Zarqawi t-shirts like the "Che Guerra" shirts on college campuses.

[BURLAP]

i'm very unsure where somebody put words in YOUR mouth, unless you don't understand the phrase 'seem to think'.

anyhow, if you'd like to discuss things as an adult you can start by dropping the sarcastic comments about how i used 'big words' and bullshit like 'professor'.

otherwise you can be a dick and keep sparring with your friend sf1.

[SF1]

There's no talking sense with stereotype. He's fucking retarded.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Ok stereotype, i wont call them anything. I will describe them and you can make up a term for them. They are people who oppose against the illegal invasion in their country. Do your best.

 

Also, about your putting your neck where your mouth is comment, i aint american and i aint an iraqi, this is not my mess to clean up although i have a very strong opinion about it as you said. I supose you are american though so it makes much more sense for you to go fight this beautifull war.

[Dawood]

...I wonder how long it will be before I see kids with Zarqawi t-shirts like the "Che Guerra" shirts on college campuses.

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Go to new york and check out all the cats rocking turbans and those palestinian scarves (ghutras) in their gear....non muslims..

[Stereotype V.001]

Originally posted by BURLAP@Dec 3 2005, 11:04 PM

i'm very unsure where somebody put words in YOUR mouth, unless you don't understand the phrase 'seem to think'.

anyhow, if you'd like to discuss things as an adult you can start by dropping the sarcastic comments about how i used 'big words' and bullshit like 'professor'.

otherwise you can be a dick and keep sparring with your friend sf1.

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--For two consecutive posts, you have managed to avoid responding to any of the points I made. I guess under the regurgitated cable news talking points, and words you pulled out of your highschool vocab book, you have no argument. But can you go for a third post... or did pointing out the use of your large, complicated words really injure that bloated ego too much? Suck it up big guy!

 

Tesseract, that is a pretty shitty excuse. I believe only one of the peace activists was/is American. And since they are only people who opposed an illegal war, it is pretty clear you feel for their cause. So, forget being a peace activist, why not fight back against the American oppressors? A Belgian woman tried to take out a convoy of Americans a week or two ago. She missed, and only managed to spray anyone in the immediate area with a warm shower of what used to be (what I can only assume) was one fine piece of ass. But fuck damnit, she had some heart.

 

You don't have to make any more excuses. Although you love jumping on the bandwagon, and pretending the insurgents never really do anything so terrible and they are in the moral right- you would never put your delicate ass in harms way. You have said that much already..its unfortunate though. You could have told the noble freedom fighters how great they are first hand. I'm sure they would have loved you.

[Stereotype V.001]

"Go to new york and check out all the cats rocking turbans and those palestinian scarves (ghutras) in their gear....non muslims.. "

 

I'm going to start wearing a yamaka...those things are stylish.

[SF1]

The point is that it doesn't matter how dirty they fight because they are in the right defending their country from an invading military. They can fight as dirty as they have to... we're sure as fuck fighting dirty with our military supremecy with lazer guided bombs and shit and massacreing innocent civilians. How the fuck you gonna bitch about them figting dirty when it's the only means they have of defending themselves?

[BURLAP]

ah, so dick status it is.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 4 2005, 12:06 PM

Tesseract, that is a pretty shitty excuse. I believe only one of the peace activists was/is American. And since they are only people who opposed an illegal war, it is pretty clear you feel for their cause. So, forget being a peace activist, why not fight back against the American oppressors? A Belgian woman tried to take out a convoy of Americans a week or two ago. She missed, and only managed to spray anyone in the immediate area with a warm shower of what used to be (what I can only assume) was one fine piece of ass. But fuck damnit, she had some heart.

 

You don't have to make any more excuses. Although you love jumping on the bandwagon, and pretending the insurgents never really do anything so terrible and they are in the moral right- you would never put your delicate ass in harms way. You have said that much already..its unfortunate though. You could have told the noble freedom fighters how great they are first hand. I'm sure they would have loved you.

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:rolleyes:

[KaBar2]

The Iraqi "insurgents" are NOT repreesenting the legitimate government of Iraq. They are representing the NEVER ELECTED, FASCIST GOVERNMENT OF SADDAM HUSSEIN. The people of Iraq, given the opportunity to vote, did so. There is a legitimately elected Iraqi government in Baghdad, which fields a National Police force and the Iraqi Defense Force, as well as a national health service, schools, etc.

 

Those prisoners being abused in the photograph were NOT IRAQI SOLDIERS. They were captured terrorist suspects, some Iraqis, some foreign nationals. The Iraqi soldiers captured during the war were well-treated, once they surrendered and were in the custody of U.S. troops. THEY WERE TREATED ACCORDING TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION. They were dressed in official Iraqi Army uniforms, and surrendered honorably to an overwhelmingly stronger and more aggressive American and Allied force. They were held in large open-air compounds surrounded by barbed wire, but given food, water and medical care. They were not robbed. They were not murdered. They were not deprived of their nation's uniform or their military I.D. or their dog tags. Once it was clear that the country had surrendered, the invading Allied forces RELEASED THE EPW'S and they walked home, some walked quite a long way, hundreds of miles, wearing their uniforms and Iraqi Army boots.

 

The people presently carrying out terrorist actions against the present, legitimate government of Iraq, the Iraqi people, and the American forces in Iraq are NOT FREEDOM FIGHTERS. They occupy the exact same category as did the Nazi "werewolves" who carried out terrorist acts against occupying Allied forces in Germany AFTER GERMANY SURRENDERED.

 

The concept of "honorable surrender" doesn't seem to have penetrated this board at all. The American troops are not slaughtering innocents by firing squads, as the Nazis did in WWII. No Iraqi women have been herded into forced prostitution, as the Japanese soldiers did everywhere they went during WWII, including China, Korea and Singapore. Despite your repeated assertions that terrorist suspects are being tortured, I have yet to see any documentation of prisoners maimed, blinded, missing fingers, with maimed genitals, etc. The Americans tortured in North Vietnam were drowned, strangled with ropes, hung by their arms handcuffed behind them, beaten severely(especially on the soles of their feet,) tortured with electricity, burned with cigarettes and so forth. REAL torture. The pressure being applied to these car bombers, beheaders, executioners, murderers of relief organization members, killers of women and children, bombers of marketplaces and mosques is that they are forced to stay awake for long periods, to answer questions over and over, to sit or stand in uncomfortable positions. The people that piled them naked in front of cameras or forced them to masturbate are sitting in Federal prison cells as I write this. Frankly, I think that their punishment for humiliating these terrorist suspects was too harsh, but the Army apparently does not agree.

 

War is bad. Everybody knows this. Somehow the American left has decided that the U.S. is always wrong, in every situation, and they just bend over backwards to do everything they can think of to insult and denigrate the United States. Our armed forces do what they can to avoid killing civilians, but I will not criticize soldiers who are fighting an enemy who REFUSES TO WEAR A UNIFORM who accidentally kills civilians. Iraq was defeated. The fascistic, totalitarian dictatorship of Saddam Hussein was CRUSHED, in record time. The terror tactics of the remaining Baathist fascists are in no way legitimate or warranted. The Sunnis are attempting to hold on to their dictatorship and their positions of power, from which they mounted a reign of terror in Iraq. Iraqi girls were snatched off the street for the sexual pleasure of Saddam's monstrous sons. Iraqi boys were forced into the army at gunpoint, and millionsd died in pointless war with Iran. Saddam himself tortured and murdered thousands of Iraqis arrested on suspicion that they opposed him. He had his own daughters' husbands murdered because they fled the country. There is not one single redeeming thing about Saddam Hussein and his Islamo-fascist dictatorship that warrants your support. He is a MONSTER, and the sooner he is convicted and executed, the better.

 

His kleptocratic lieutenants will eventually bought to ground and either killed or imprisoned. Iraq will be a free and democratic nation, and it's government will be a democratically elected, constitutional Republic. Iraqi women will be able to attend school, to vote, to own property, to serve in public office, to have professional careers, much like the women of western European nations. Iraqi children will be able to attend school and learn something besides the Koran or how wonderful Saddam is. Iraqi universities will begin to produce graduates with an actual education, instead of just a paper degree. Iraqi industry will produce the things that Iraq needs, and 90% of the consumer items in the country will cease to be imported from suppliers who must bribe Baathist officials to get the business. The Iraqi petroleum industry will make profits. Most of those profits will go to the Iraqi people, in the form of taxes, to operate Iraqi society, rather than into the pockets of Saddam Hussein and his criminal family and his tribe of fascists. The Iraqis will sell oil to whomever they please, but no longer will Saddam Hussein and his cronies try to jack up American oil companies to further his sickening dictatorship.

 

I know many of you on this board disagree with this. You prefer the "America is the Great Satan" version of history. You prefer to believe that somehow or another, America is the cause of all the world's troubles. Grow up. The most important reason we attacked Iraq is that Saddam Hussein constituted a threat, however remote, to Israel. Israel has enormous influence over U.S. foreign policy and strategic planning, through their strong supporters in Congress, in the CIA, in the bureaucracy of the government itself. The reason the countries of the Middle East hate the U.S. is because we support Israel. Israel is the Jewish state. The Muslims hate and despise Jews far more than the Nazis ever dreamed of. Without U.S. support and protection, Israel would have long since been destroyed and every single Israeli man, woman and child killed. The 1973 war was a very close thing. To enable the Israelis to win, the U.S. sent them 90% of our tanks from Europe. Scot free, it didn't cost them a dime.

 

Torture is not the issue. It's Israel, and Jews, that are the issue. As long as we continue to support them, the Middle East will hate the U.S. So fuck 'em, that's just the way it is.

 

 

There is a legitimately elected Iraqi government. The Sunnis were invited to participate. They refused, therefore most of the officials elected were either Shiite or Kurds. Whose fault was that? The Sunnis had an opportunity to participate, but their own people terrorized them into boycotting the polls.

[CACashRefund]

Originally posted by Tesseract@Dec 3 2005, 01:09 PM

What he said, also adding another one 'in the spirit' of crossfire, English is my second language. How many do you speak?

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if you were referring to me tesser

 

i speak english, spanish, and basic german

[SF1]

LMFAO!!! He said a "legitimate election"!!! :biglaugh:

[SF1]

Kabar, it doesn't matter how many paragraphs you post of nonsense that you keep recyling even after they've already been shot to peices...nobody's buying your bullshit propoganda. It's too full of holes. :biglaugh:

[hobo knife]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 3 2005, 09:40 PM

They are fighting to instate another Iran/Afghanistan where you get executed because you have the audacity to think for yourself and 9 year old girls become wives to old men. That is not freedom in the loosest interpretation of the word.

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Sorry, dude, you are the one spitting out rhetoric. You are obviously way way into politics and reading....I can tell you probably read a lot of political material, that is true right? If you're not reading this stuff you must be listening to it on talk radio. Really man, it's so obvious that you haven't actually formed you own opinions, you just eat up everything you read. And then you spit back out on a forum.

[coffeedependency]

the question is why the US continues to use WP, which is not technically banned by arms control, but only technically. chemical weapons aren't condoned for a reason, and to glibly use a substance that is certainly as awful as those that aren't condoned, because the language of the chemical weapons convention allows it, is hypocritical.

it shouldn't be used in civilian areas, ever.

and i'm sure the only reason they're saying they use it for smokescreening (absurd? irresponsible?) is so they have the defense of intention.

[Stereotype V.001]

Originally posted by hobo knife+Dec 5 2005, 12:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hobo knife - Dec 5 2005, 12:21 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Stereotype V.001@Dec 3 2005, 09:40 PM

They are fighting to instate another Iran/Afghanistan where you get executed because you have the audacity to think for yourself and 9 year old girls become wives to old men. That is not freedom in the loosest interpretation of the word.

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Sorry, dude, you are the one spitting out rhetoric. You are obviously way way into politics and reading....I can tell you probably read a lot of political material, that is true right? If you're not reading this stuff you must be listening to it on talk radio. Really man, it's so obvious that you haven't actually formed you own opinions, you just eat up everything you read. And then you spit back out on a forum.

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[/b]

 

I find it hilarious that not a single person has responded to anything I actually said, OTHER THAN SF UNO. Everyone has to make inferences to have any type of argument at all, even people who come out of the woodwork because they got their frat-boy feelings hurt a while back.(Also very ironic, considering college kids are usually the ones who are told what/how to think by their liberal professors, but I shall refrain from delving further.)

 

Well, to play along, what specific thing have I said that was regurgitated, and where did I get it from? And do you disagree with the section you quoted... perhaps the insurgents/terrorists/freedom fighters are fighting to install a massive Wal-Mart chain? I watch the daily show as often as I can, but I generally don't find myself regurgitating any of that. The far right guys would not conceed that Iraq was a blatant mistake, among other things. The last book I read was "Curious George and the Iranian funded militant group Fatah's adventure in the Caspian Region." I will be eagerly awaiting your answer!

 

SF- You posted on the previous page of this thread that the US kills hundreds of innocent civilians, and this is wrong. But when a crowd of innocent people at a market get blown to shit, or children in a hospital are hit by a vbied, thats fine? That is how the insurgency operates, and you said yourself "They can fight as dirty as they have to". Sounds just a little bit hypocritical.

[Stereotype V.001]

"There is a legitimately elected Iraqi government in Baghdad, which fields a National Police force and the Iraqi Defense Force."

 

Don't forget Iran's shiite militias that are running shit in several areas while installing strict Islamic law! Stupid women, who do they think they are, talking without permission. pffffftt

[hobo knife]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 5 2005, 04:23 PM

I find it hilarious that not a single person has responded to anything I actually said, OTHER THAN SF UNO. Everyone has to make inferences to have any type of argument at all, even people who come out of the woodwork because they got their frat-boy feelings hurt a while back.(Also very ironic, considering college kids are usually the ones who are told what/how to think by their liberal professors, but I shall refrain from delving further.)

 

Well, to play along, what specific thing have I said that was regurgitated, and where did I get it from? And do you disagree with the section you quoted... perhaps the insurgents/terrorists/freedom fighters are fighting to install a massive Wal-Mart chain? I watch the daily show as often as I can, but I generally don't find myself regurgitating any of that. The far right guys would not conceed that Iraq was a blatant mistake, among other things. The last book I read was "Curious George and the Iranian funded militant group Fatah's adventure in the Caspian Region." I will be eagerly awaiting your answer!

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Man...calm down. First of all you just (mistakenly) inferred something about me and why I'm even posting...appearantly to strengthen your argument...

 

Second, I was refering to your entire demeanor...the fact that you're so charged of conservative anger and libertarian ideals. Political propaganda(liberal or conservative) usually tries to spark some sort of distaste for the opposition.

 

And the reason I'm coming out of the woodwork is not because you hurt my feelings(wtf? don't flatter yourself) it's because I don't pay attention to crossfire anymore b/c it's a waste of time...and I seriously advise you to stop coming in here to vent on your political views you'd probably start feeling better in general if you quit reading books like "Curious George and the Iranian funded militant group Fatah's adventure in the Caspian Region."

 

...but whatever kid. Keep on proving those liberals wrong...and buying those books so you can regurgitate something in your next post.

[BURLAP]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Dec 5 2005, 01:23 PM

I find it hilarious that not a single person has responded to anything I actually said, OTHER THAN SF UNO.

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i find it hilarious too. that's what happens when you're a dick.