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~Paris Riots~


H. Lecter

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Originally posted by dowmagik@Nov 8 2005, 06:09 AM

Last time I checked it was free to run on the sidewalk, it's free to do sit-ups, its free to fill milk jugs with water and lift them(ok, water isnt free, but damn cheap). I don't buy into the notion thats its just too expensive to live a healthy life, so people result to McDonalds' dollar menu. Yes, McDonalds, is very cheap and quick, but how fucking long does it make to make a sandwich or scramble some eggs? The fact of the matter is people are lazy and want convenience, and many simply don't care that they are fat. Sure, they don't like being obese, but I know more fat people that bitch about being overweight than I do fat people who exercise regularly and eat healthy. I'd even be down for limiting what people can buy with foodstamps. At my store we order less donuts towards the end of the month, geez, I wonder why. This country is going to have a heavy (no pun intended) burden on it financially because of all these obese people. And all these fatties buying 20$ worth of candy bars from me with their foodstamps are going to be the same ones with their hand out when it comes time to pay the medical bills. Sorry, neeeded to vent...

 

EXERCISE, GO TO SCHOOL AND DONT USE METH

 

I'm with you on that.

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stuff your emotions. eat your words.

If I was PM of France I would be hype about these riots. I'd be like "damn, these people are motivated! I like that!" Then I would set up advanced skills job training institutions that would be a part of the welfare system. I would make all of my little ninjas highly educated and I would make france the most powerful nation in THE WORLD!!! HAHAHHAHAA!!!!!

Really, oppression, and mass labor exploitation is played out. Knowledge is power.

I used to kinda like france. eat a dick frogs.

(of course I don't hate all of france and french people... but you know what i mean.)

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"I used to kind of like France. . ." Unbelieveable. The problems that exist in France are the result of France's STUPID decision to bring in millions of North African immigrants to solve their temporary labor problem. In fact, all of Europe faces similar problems and they are not going to improve anytime soon. The Europeans have harmed one another enormously with two World Wars. They should have known better, and hopefully will avoid such stupidity in the future, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I don't think the French people will ever accept the North African immigrants or their children as "French." They will always consider them to be outsiders, and if the North Africans genuinely want a society that reflects their religious and cultural values, they would return to North Africa. That, of course, they are not about to do, because North Africa has no welfare system, no cite's, no schools, no modern conveniences to equal those available to these poor, oppressed immigrant families. Despite the fact that they are poor, oppressed, blah, blah, blah, they are living a life completely unattainable in North Africa for any but the wealthiest people. If this were not so, they would gladly return to Algeria or wherever they came from, and would enjoy living a wonderfully prosperous life in a wonderful Muslim country. But they know, and we know, and everybody knows, that without the FRENCH citizens in France creating a society that provides all these luxuries (through their Socialist tax francs) that the North African immigrants enjoy, they would be living in the most abject poverty conceiveable. If France is so bad, and their own culture so wonderful, let them return from whence they came.

 

That will never happen. The French allowed them to immigrate, and now they are stuck with them, burning shit down like a bunch of spoiled brats instead of going out and making a living for themselves.

 

France should turn the French Army loose on them. Ungrateful assholes.

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France as a mindframe is the total opossite of the US, noone can argue that anymore. Its very obvious that an all american mind just cant get into all that at all.

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It will be interesting to see what happens after the riots in France are all over. Will the average French person now feel sympathetic to the North African immigrants? Will they rush to the cite's to try to repair the rift between themselves and the poor, oppressed Muslim youths? Will they all go out and buy new cars, since the rioters burned up thousands of cars for absolutely no good reason? Will they rally to the Socialist cause and demand that Chirac rectify these obviously valid grieviances? Or will the fascist party of Le Pen suddenly have a huge piece of the French political pie?

 

I cannot even guess. I was so wrong on Spain, after the Madrid bombings, that I was just stunned. I never would have imagined that the same people who fought the Spanish Civil War would turn tail for a bunch of piss-ant terrorists.

 

For all I know, the French may be as castrated as the Spanish. Do you suppose that the same people who produced the maquis, the French Resistance, will cower before a bunch of teenagers with molotov cocktails? I hope not, but who knows? The European mentality is beyond me. Perhaps most of the Europeans with guts were killed off in the last two World Wars. What a tragedy, if that's true.

 

Poesis---I think that the government of France, representing the French people, has a right to reestablish law and order within the country. I read in the newspaper that certain Muslim neighborhoods are "off limits" to police officers. I had to read that several times to make sure I read it correctly. It is hard for me to believe that the police in France allow ANY FUCKING BODY to tell them that they cannot enforce the Laws of The State, anywhere and everywhere within their jurisdiction. If there is a neighborhood in Paris that attacked police officers one night, the next morning there would be a French Army tank or armored car and a company of soldiers patrolling every square inch of that neighborhood, and arrests would not cease until attacks on the police ceased. A stack of search warrants for every residence of every person arrested would be there within an hour after the handcuffs went on, and his home would be searched thoroughly for evidence of crimes.

 

But, what the fuck. We live in a world where people with plenty to eat, all manner of luxury items, color TV, refrigerators, cars, DVD players, x-box and every fucking thing else believe they are "poor," and "oppressed." BULL SHIT. They believe somehow or another they are "entitled" to all these things and more. BULL SHIT. They do not believe they need to obey the law, or go to school, or earn a living, or pay taxes, or even SUPPORT THEIR OWN GODDAMNED CHILDREN.

 

BULL SHIT!!! They are NOT poor. They are NOT oppressed. They have NO legitimate grounds to believe that they do not need to make a legal living like every body else. And they most definately need to raise and care for and support their own children, and it is nobody's job but their own to do so.

 

How in the world did things get so incredibly FUCKED UP? I don't understand it.

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You see Kabar, this is why I call bullshit on your fake stories about how you were a hippy protester hobo whatever.

You have the brain of a racist, Fascist, bigot. You beleive that "law and order" and capitalizm trumps everything and anything no matter what, and that Might=right.

You also beleive in strict conformity.

 

People do change and mature over time and life experience, but nobody's wireing changes that drastically.

You were never some freedom loving "hippie" activist. You just say that cause you think it'll get people to listen to your bullshit if they think you were once like them.

 

 

Fuck you and your lies and your entire bullshit mentality.

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Dawood---

 

Anyone who is a combatant who is not in the service of a legally constituted government is a "guerrilla." Guerrillas are not protected by the Geneva Convention, but as long as they obey the rules of the Geneva Convention (go read it) they are often afforded treatment when captured as if they actually are covered. In other words, if a guerrilla conducts himself on the battlefield according to the Geneva Convention, he is often accorded treatment as if he is covered.

 

The minimum standard for a irregular combatant in civilian clothing is that he restrict his attacks to military targets. If he fails to do so, he can be considered a "bandit."

 

Anyone who is a "bandit", who preys upon the civilian population during a war (these people are often deserters from one or several different armies) are not required to even recieve a trial. They can be shot upon sight, or executed later, after their capture.

 

"Terrorists", by definition, are NOT uniformed soldiers of a legally constituted government, they do NOT conduct themselves according to the Geneva Convention and they do NOT restrict their attacks to military targets. They attack civilians, hospitals, schools, things necessary for survival like water reservoirs or electric power generating stations. Soldiers are not just somebody who puts on a uniform. They are under the COMMAND OF OFFICERS, who are under the command of CIVILIAN OR MILITARY LEADERS.

 

The difference between a pirate and a privateer is that pirates fight for plunder, and privateers fight under the authority of a legally constituted government. The difference between a terrorist and a commando is that a terrorist attacks civilian targets which have no military value, and follows orders from leaders who are not legal governments. A commando attacks only military targets which have a military value, and follows the orders of a legally constituted government.

 

Legitimate soldiers who get captured are treated with dignity, according to the Geneva Convention, supposedly. Terrorists are fair game whenever and wherever we find them. In order to be considered to be a legitimate soldier, one must be dressed in the official uniform of one's country (or at least the uniform of the government which you serve) and OPENLY CARRYING ARMS. They may hide, but they cannot take off the uniform that identifies them as an enemy soldier. If they do, they can be declared spies or saboteurs, and summarily executed, right on the spot.

 

The "insurgents" we capture in Iraq are technically "bandits." They could be considered not only terrorists, but also spies and saboteurs. The fact that our troops hand them over for interrogation instead of frog-marching them to the nearest wall to be executed speaks WORLDS about the humanity and generosity of our soldiers.

 

These words "soldier" and "terrorist," and "bandit" are not just empty euphemisms. ALL COMBATANTS ARE NOT EQUAL. Those who fight with dignity and honor, as did the defeated Iraqi Army, are disarmed, demobilized and sent home. Those who murder and terrorize and defy the legally constituted government are criminals and terrorists, and deserve to be imprisoned, if not executed.

 

If the "insurgents" were to lay down their arms, agree to follow the law, and participate in the legally constituted government of Iraq, they would no longer be considered terrorists, and would be permitted to resume life as regular Iraqi citizens rather than murderers and terrorists. Those who refuse, will simply be erradicated, eventually.

 

The government of Iraq is formed of Iraqi Muslims, some Shiite, some Sunni, some Kurds, and maybe even a Christian here and there. It is a secular government, as is appropriate, since there are at least three major religions in Iraq, if not more. If the Sunnis would agree to participate, they would get fair representation. They do not WANT fair representation. They ran Iraq for years, torturing and terrorizing and murdering and raping Iraqis to keep power. They are scared shitless that now it is their turn in the barrel. In short, they believe that they are ENTITLED to rule Iraq, which is absolutely not the case. They are a minority, and do not have the necessary numbers to dominate politics in Iraq. In a democratic, constitutional republic, if they insist on being oppositional and contrary, they will find themselves consistently out-voted. Their answer to this is to disrupt the country with terrorist violence. They should be careful that they do not spark off a religious civil war, because it would be Shiites and Kurds vs the Sunnis. They would lose, BADLY. If they were smart, they would ditch the shitty attitude, lay down their weapons, and join the Iraqi government.

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Originally posted by Nov 8 2005@ 08:30 PM

France as a mindframe is the total opossite of the US, noone can argue that anymore. Its very obvious that an all american mind just cant get into all that at all.

 

 

The French country people are just as thick and big headed as the American country people..

 

The US is just the people that everyone loves to hate this generation..

but then again the top of the pyramid is always the prime target.

 

The French and the Americans often meet at cultural odds,

but none-the-less, people are people..

and when you don't have all these labels and news stories to seperate you,

that's the only thing that's "very obvious"..

 

 

 

------------

 

Anyway,

 

Updated map..

 

France

_40999402_france_riots3_map203.gif

 

Ile de France (Paris Metro Region)

_40999400_paris_riots2_map629.gif

 

---

30+ towns & cities in every corner of the country

are now under a "state of emergeny" which put in place nationial guard enforced curfews..

 

However there are not currently curfews in the area where the riots initially began..

And the current violence is prodominantly in other regions of the country..

 

Over 120 arrested for or during the protests/riots have been assigned for deportation,

and the interior minister has stated that all non-permanent citizens that are arrested rioting will be

deported without exception.

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SF1--

 

I realize that you are young, and seriously lack life experience. I understand that you are very idealistic, and just can't fathom why everybody has to be so mean. If all the governments of the world would just magically disappear, or better yet, if the heroic, oppressed people of the world would just overthrow them, everything would just be peachy.

 

Well, not so. Despite your insistance on ad hominem attacks, I am not going to stoop to that level. But, I am beginning to wonder exactly what YOUR bona fides are, since you seem to push the idea of breaking the law and being antisocial so hard.

 

I was a revolutionary anarchist for many years. I was young, I was naive, I was influenced by older people whom I thought were admirable, and I learned the hard way that most of them were not worth my admiration or respect, and certainly not worth my political loyalty. The ideas of anarchism, like all flavors of socialism, are puerile and unrealistic. I find it amusing that you accuse me of being a bigot and a fascist. Fascism, and especially National Socialism, are, of course, ALSO a flavor of socialism, although you seem unable to see it. Mussolini was first a member of Italy's Socialist Party. And the NSDAP lifted much of their economic theory directly from Marx, and grafted it on to German nationalism.

 

To paraphrase the well known statement about terrorists and freedom fighters, "One man's bigot is another man's passionate adherant." I think you resort to all these personal attacks because your analysis is weak, and your arguments lack validity. But, that's just my opinion.

 

I no longer believe that anarchism is the answer to the working class dilemma. While the economics of it all were fascinatining, it does not work well in praxis. If you put two anarchists together, they argue bitterly. If you put three anarchists together, they split the organization.

 

So-called "radical" or "revolutionary politics" is a complete waste of time. Your time would be a lot better spent starting a small business to employ others who are unemployed, or building affordable housing to sell for a sustainable profit, or inventing something that would use up the billions of tons of discarded automobile tires stacked everywhere, or investing in renewable energy or something like that.

 

Focusing all your energy on trying to defeat the evil rich poeople will only result in two things. You will be poor and you will stay poor, and you will get older and older and your youth will slip through your hands, wasted on all that silly political crap.

 

Seriously, you really need to go visit other parts of the world and see how it is there. I'm not being facetious or sarcastic. Really, go check it out. Take your malaria pills. Boil the water. A couple of months of the Third World, and you will have a very different attitude about the bad old United States. Try Mexico, even. It's close to home, and you can get home quickly if things don't work out too well.

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"It's pig intestines , yes it is! So this nasty thing that has become a soul food staple comes from slavery ,when massa used to feed the slaves that nasty pig gut (because it was left over and white people werent going to eat it ) Same as fat back and all those nutritional things that poor black folks eat even today."

 

i find this absolutely amusing. its cool how every bad thing is tied to slavery. hell, 3 of my ancestors were brought over as slaves. well more specifically indentured servants serving 3 terms of servitude back to back. to say that only slaves ate "soul food" and "chitlins" is hilarious. since its a pretty known fact that 7% or under of the population of the "slave holding" states held slaves at any given time. (im not going to include the slaves of the north or those coming into ports in the north) the rest of the white population was not well off. blacks and whites ate the same food. various dishes consisting of corn, pork, vegetables mainly. why does it have to be only a "poor black thing?" just as many or more "poor white folks" eat the same shit down south and most other areas of the country.

 

and to say that healthfood stores are over priced, that is why people cant eat right is just looney as well. you can buy perfectly fine food at the regular grocery store and eat a decent diet.

 

and i think kabar is right on about damn near every point.

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Kabar,

Don't get me wrong. I don't view people who blow up hospitals, water supplies and hijack planes as being "freedom fighters and I'm not here trying to legitimize their actions.As a matter of fact the most authoritive muslim scholars condemn these things with the utmost condemnation. All I am saying is this. Just because you are a legally constituted government it doesn't give you the right to rape, pillage and plunder. Seriously, Its like white collar crime. Just because you are already a millionaire doesnt give you the right to steal millions more just because you can.

I am not an anarchist, I see the benefit in law and order. It's just that the particular law and order being enforced overseas is way out of bounds and you must admit these wars taking place are much more an econamic power move than a war on "terror". The "terrorists" are only fighting because they are forced to. Because there are "legitimate soldiers" plundering their homes! I question not only the actions of the people, but the establishment of these people.

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Originally posted by KaBar2@Nov 10 2005, 08:57 PM

The "insurgents" we capture in Iraq are technically "bandits." They could be considered not only terrorists, but also spies and saboteurs. The fact that our troops hand them over for interrogation instead of frog-marching them to the nearest wall to be executed speaks WORLDS about the humanity and generosity of our soldiers.

 

 

so explain to me again why any american has the right to capture an iraqi who is fighting in iraq in the first place? oh right its becasue america said so.

 

 

what do you want them to do kabar? how are they suppsoed to have uniform and fight for a government when their countrys government has become a puppet democracy to yours, and dont speak shit about how its democratic because we all know that money makes the world go round and the americans gave plenty of money to the people thye wanted in power.

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Originally posted by SF1@Nov 11 2005, 04:00 AM

I just love how I'm an "anarchist" for pulling your card. :biglaugh:

 

SF1---

??? What? I never called you an anarchist, I said I was an anarchist. I was trying to illustrate for you that at one point in my life I was every bit as convinced that I was right as you seem to be today.

 

I try to be a realist, as much as is possible. I think that despite one's efforts to be objective and empirical, one's opinions are inevitably colored by one's experiences. I started out (at age 17 or so) much more radical and much farther to the "left" than you seem to be. It did not take too many years of on-the-ground experience to bring me to the realization that my political stance was insupportable.

 

I now find myself in the sometimes uncomfortable position of trying to explain to people how I changed from an anarchist, conscientious objector to the Vietnam War (I did two years "alternative service" in a rehabilitation hospital caring for paralyzed men and boys), anti-war protestor to a conservative Republican former Marine.

 

My experiences in life weren't exceptionally horriffic. It was the usual thing, trying to get ahead, trying to get a decent job, trying to increase my income up to a level that would allow my family to live a decent life that brought me face-to-face with the real cost of refusing higher education and spending years hitch-hiking, trainhopping, going to demos, living in "counterculture" neighborhoods, in anarchist communes and collectives, and engaging in revolutionary anarchist political activity. It was a foolish squandering of precious years of earning potential. I am ten years from retirement age. Had I not been such an idiot, I would have well over half a million dollars in investments now, despite the low income jobs I had held. The problem wasn't my income, so much as what I spent my money on.

 

No matter how I look at it, it was very foolish and embarrassingly immature of me to refuse to accept the economic realities of life. Even more foolish and embarrassing is how long it took me to scramble this far up the economic ladder once I realized that I fucked up.

 

The rioters in Paris may be low income, they may be nearly "no income," but for them to blame their unenviable economic condition on the non-Muslim citizens of France is simply ridiculous. Their economic and social condition is NOBODY'S RESPONSIBILITY BUT THEIR OWN. France has already given them a gift beyond price, and that is residence in France and citizenship. It is their inappropriate sense of ENTITLEMENT that is keeping them from progressing. France doesn't owe them a thing. The sooner they realize that, and get their asses to WORK solving their problems, the sooner their condition will improve.

 

I got turned down for plenty of jobs in the late 1960's and the 1970's. In conservative, redneck Texas, I wore my hair long, a long beard, and went around everywhere sporting an I.W.W. union button and a "circle @" anarchist button on my suitably "hippie" clothing. I was my own worst enemy. Most of the black and Latino people I knew thought I was an idiot. "How do you ever expect to get a decent job dressed like that? Get a haircut, man." I wore my politics on my sleeve, because "being right" and rubbing everybody else's nose in it was more important to me than having a job or a bank account. I wasan't alone, of course. There were hundreds of thousands of us, maybe millions. We were all idiots except the ones who figured out a way to make big money off of it--the bands, the owners of popular rock music clubs, the head shop owners, the people like "Rolling Stone", and so on. We despised them all as "sell-outs" and "hip capitalists." THEY WERE RIGHT. WE WERE WRONG. I only wish I could have understood it back then.

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Guest imported_Tesseract
Originally posted by KaBar2@Nov 11 2005, 03:38 AM

I got turned down for plenty of jobs in the late 1960's and the 1970's. In conservative, redneck Texas, I wore my hair long, a long beard, and went around everywhere sporting an I.W.W. union button and a "circle @" anarchist button on my suitably "hippie" clothing. I was my own worst enemy. Most of the black and Latino people I knew thought I was an idiot. "How do you ever expect to get a decent job dressed like that? Get a haircut, man." I wore my politics on my sleeve, because "being right" and rubbing everybody else's nose in it was more important to me than having a job or a bank account. I wasan't alone, of course. There were hundreds of thousands of us, maybe millions. We were all idiots except the ones who figured out a way to make big money off of it--the bands, the owners of popular rock music clubs, the head shop owners, the people like "Rolling Stone", and so on. We despised them all as "sell-outs" and "hip capitalists." THEY WERE RIGHT. WE WERE WRONG. I only wish I could have understood it back then.

 

Maybe symbols comment about seeing the world black&white was to subtle for you. All these years on 12oz you keep talking about your life stories in every opp you get. As you said in the past, you'd like to pass your experiences and knowledge you obtained from them to the younger people as a high experienced mature adult. I give you that though, you've been through some shit in your life and had the opportunity to see lots of different stuff, whats really disapointing though is that after ALL that you still view the world in the most naive black&white way ever possible. I would expect from a man your age and experience to learn to be versatile and open minded but thats not the case with you old man. Frankly, its not my business how you live your life, and i wouldnt get into all that if you didnt make your life our business in here always trying to be high and mighty.

So there you have it, on the above post...you were always someone that felt the need to demonstrate what you stand for in the most obvious and moronic way with no real depth towards what you were suposed to believe. And when nothing fell in place for you, you adopted another mindframe that suited you in the enviroment you live and finally felt accepted. I think its obvious to anyone to see that the same passionate and idiotic way of sporting anarchy signs didnt change when it comes to proudly blabbing about being a true member of the nra etc etc etc. You're still an idiot struggling for an identity and so insecure you cant aknoledge truth in anything besides your current fixation.

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I don't know if people have been considering this but its obvious that the kids in france rioting are from north or west africa and are not white. They are children and grandchildren of people whos countries were colonialized for half a century or more. That means those parents and grandparents lived the majority of their lives under occupation by white people and fought in revolutions and uprisings against the french colinization to get their countries back(that means it is fresh in their mind and the ones who lived under french occupation are still alive) . the french allowed lax imigration policies so the people that they screwed could have a betted chance unfortunatly that better chance was not that at all. The french just wanted them for cheap labor. and its not about religon its about culture and skin color not every fucking kid who has north african arab parents or every west african muslim is praying 5 times a day and goes to the mosq. shit prolly half the kids on this forum have little crosses around their necks and are based in christian shit but dont go to church so you gotta figure a certain amount of these french kids are prolly the same way. Its just hard for people from eroupe or america to understand what the world looks like from the other side. its another way the world is put together and not in the eroupean model of comparing everything to white enlightenment ideals looking at brown and black people as the "other" and thinking of them as savage.

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Some quotes to add from Wednesday's "Le Monde" Newspaper...

Mostly from interviews with youths they found on the street in a region north of Paris~ Aubervilles..

 

 

 

"When you have nothing, you are ready to sacrafice anything"

 

"Anyway, what do you want them/us to do? For 100 CV's (resumes) that I've sent out,

I've received 3 responses. Just like a piston, when pushed, I push back."

 

They don't understand of the government justifies "Millions of euros to equipe the police when they refused to give a drop to open a youth center"

 

"One feels more a sense of revolution than a feeling of true hate"

 

"They are not dogs, but they are sure treated like animals"

 

"They (the government) is frightened because this is thier Bastille..."

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Originally posted by Tesseract@Nov 11 2005, 12:55 PM

Maybe symbols comment about seeing the world black&white was to subtle for you. All these years on 12oz you keep talking about your life stories in every opp you get. As you said in the past, you'd like to pass your experiences and knowledge you obtained from them to the younger people as a high experienced mature adult. I give you that though, you've been through some shit in your life and had the opportunity to see lots of different stuff, whats really disapointing though is that after ALL that you still view the world in the most naive black&white way ever possible. I would expect from a man your age and experience to learn to be versatile and open minded but thats not the case with you old man. Frankly, its not my business how you live your life, and i wouldnt get into all that if you didnt make your life our business in here always trying to be high and mighty.

So there you have it, on the above post...you were always someone that felt the need to demonstrate what you stand for in the most obvious and moronic way with no real depth towards what you were suposed to believe. And when nothing fell in place for you, you adopted another mindframe that suited you in the enviroment you live and finally felt accepted. I think its obvious to anyone to see that the same passionate and idiotic way of sporting anarchy signs didnt change when it comes to proudly blabbing about being a true member of the nra etc etc etc. You're still an idiot struggling for an identity and so insecure you cant aknoledge truth in anything besides your current fixation.

 

 

God bless you Tesseract! :biglaugh:

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Tesseract---

Not bad, six insults, no comprehension. Perhaps you simply can't understand, but instead, I believe you simply choose not to. We simply disagree profoundly, and I doubt we will ever come to anything approximating communication. It's not so much a matter of me seeing everything as "black & white" as it is me having been on both sides of the fence. I'm sure, as you mature and have some more life experiences, that your viewpoints will change some. Possibly not the same changes I have made, but I doubt seriously your opinions will remain as left wing and socialistic as they presently seem to be.

 

The changes in my life were adaptations to the things I experienced. The changes in your life will no doubt be colored by the things that you experience. I became an anarchist at age 17, and remained active and dedicated until the age of 26 or so, and still peripherially involved into my early 30's. That doesn't seem like a shallow commitment to me. It probably cost me at least $140,000 in lost wages, or more. My biggest regret is that for all that effort, so little was produced. It was a colossal waste of time and energy. My wife and I have made tremendous strides economically, once we started playing "catch up." My political opinions were changed by the things I saw and did and suffered during those years. You accuse me of being less than "versatile." Quite to the contrary, I think I am quite versatile. My opinions were very slow to change (well, 14 years--is that slowly or quickly?) but once I changed, I embraced the change fully.

 

There is no justification for the behavior of the rioters in France. It is simply not the government's responsibility to provide them with the things they want or imagine that they deserve. Meeting their needs and satisfying their desires is THEIR OWN responsibility. How difficult can this possibly be for you to understand? Even their own parents and neighbors went into the streets trying to stop them from committing arson and rioting, finally. (Imagine that, parents determined to get their violent, felonious sons under control.) One person quoted on the news service blamed it on the French laws prohibiting them from beating their kids. "The law forbids us from beating them, so what do you expect? No wonder that they think they can do whatever they please."

 

I have heard no reports of deaths among the rioters. Have any of you heard any reports of deaths? Frankly, I'm pretty amazed at the restraint of the French police. I think that the police in the U.S. would not show half as much restraint, in a similar circumstance. And I think that the deportations are probably appropriate. The deportees obviously do not like living in France, and have clearly shown they do not intend to obey French law, so perhaps it is better if they simply return home.

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Originally posted by WhiteOx@Nov 12 2005, 10:26 AM

There have been deaths Kabar. Don't you get the news in HickVille Tennessee?

 

Houston, Texas, not Tennesee. Houston is far from "Hickville." It is either the third or fourth largest city in the United States, depending on who is doing the measuring. The list is: New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston. (Houston and Chicago are pretty close in size.) In addition to that, Houston is the number three seaport in the U.S. (Port of Los Angeles, CA; Port of Long Beach, CA.; Port of Houston, TX.) as well as an "international" city. It is not at all unusual for me to hear three or four different languages being spoken during the day--English, Spanish, Chinese, Urdu, Vietnamese, tribal languages from Nigeria, etc. Your unfounded predjudices about conservative viewpoints being the province of ignorant, rural bumpkins is making you look silly.

 

Please provide sources for reports of deaths, as I have not seen any such reports in our rather liberal local paper, the Houston Chronicle. It would make perfect sense to me that there would be a high death toll among rioters setting thousands of cars and hundreds of buildings on fire, but I can only recall reading of a few police officers wounded from birdshot fired by rioters. Do you have different information? If these riots were occurring in Houston, I can assure you the death toll would be high. Very high. That is why I am surprised that I have not read any reports of rioters killed, or for that matter, police officers killed.

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Kabar--->" It's not so much a matter of me seeing everything as "black & white" as it is me having been on both sides of the fence."

 

So basically you're saying there's two different types of people divided by an imaginary fence. One side is the left and the other side the right? No room for middleground, just a divide. You're either one of us or one of them? republicans on one side and leftwingcommiedemocratsocialistanarchistlawbreakinghippieniggerspicjews on the other?

And that's not seeing life in terms of black and white? :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

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Originally posted by SF1@Nov 12 2005, 07:27 PM

Kabar--->" It's not so much a matter of me seeing everything as "black & white" as it is me having been on both sides of the fence."

 

So basically you're saying there's two different types of people divided by an imaginary fence. One side is the left and the other side the right? No room for middleground, just a divide. You're either one of us or one of them? republicans on one side and leftwingcommiedemocratsocialistanarchistlawbreakinghippieniggerspicjews on the other?

And that's not seeing life in terms of black and white? :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

No, you fucking idiot, he is saying that he feels he can empathize with multiple perspectives in regards to an issue as a result of his age and experience. And you knew that when you typed up that retarded ass post in an attempt to be funny. Good fucking lord you stoke the misanthropy fires.

 

Fucking bump to Kabar's comment about unfounded prejudices against conservative views.

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