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Guantanamo hunger strikers


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well i knew that wouldn't be your last post.

it's apparent i've really got under your skin using the same shitty argument tactics you

use on everybody else. irritating isn't it? ironic you called me the pretentious douche...

it's okay, i'm done fucking with you and playing your 'i know you are but what am i' games.

you can now go back to making yourself feel special clowning your 12oz love interest, sf1.

and keep calling me professor and i'll keep grading your posts.

 

tesseract is aware of all this, so that will be my final word, although i'm sure you

will respond with more of the same. i advise you use the ignore button, as i will, for the

betterment of crossfire discussion henceforth.

 

your friend,

 

Professor Burlap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest imported_Tesseract

Stereotype, you (as well everybody else) will get warned for shit talking. Alot of crossfire peeps already have. Dont make me feel like a moron here by stating the obvious. You can argue without the insults and the stupid talk that goes nowhere and as long as you do that, you're welcome. Like i said before, all that bullshit wont be tolerated anymore.

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When I stated "this is my last post, mainly because I don't want to get banned" and you said "thats not an excuse" I figured it was all good. I just really enjoy getting the reactions I get out of people like burlap, SF ect through an impersonal outlet like the internet. I would have enjoyed staying on the Afghanistan topic, but obviously the good professor couldn't respond /didn't want to and it soon melted into this awesome ego-stroking circle jerk.

 

Oh well, the original hunger strike topic died out a while back anyway.

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i agree.

 

i'm not sure what anyone in here is even talking about anymore except mostly themselves and how their selves relate to other people's selves.

hahahaa.

 

yeah.,

 

Published on Friday, December 30, 2005

 

US Reports Surge in Guantanamo Hunger Strike

by Will Dunham

 

 

WASHINGTON - The number of Guantanamo Bay prisoners taking part in a hunger strike that began nearly five months ago has surged to 84 since Christmas Day, the U.S. military said on Thursday.

 

Forty-six detainees at the prison for foreign terrorism suspects at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, joined the protest on the Christian holiday on Sunday, said Army Lt. Col. Jeremy Martin, a military spokesman.

 

The prisoner population, which the Pentagon says numbers about 500, is believed to be uniformly Muslim. Only nine have been charged with any crime.

 

"There's been a significant increase in the number that have been added to the hunger strike," Martin said by telephone from Guantanamo.

 

Lawyers for some of the detainees call the strike a protest of jail conditions and prisoners' lack of legal rights. The military has denied allegations of torturing detainees.

 

Medical personnel were force-feeding 32 of the hunger strikers with plastic tubes inserted into the stomach through the nose, the military said. Asked the purpose of the force-feeding, Martin said, "Because our policy is to preserve life."

 

Military officials define a hunger striker as a detainee who has refused nine straight meals, and often refer to the strike as a "voluntary fast" and force-feeding as "enteral feeding."

 

The detainees began the strike in early August after the military reneged on promises to bring the prison into compliance with the Geneva Conventions, their lawyers said. Detainees are willing to starve to death to demand humane treatment and a fair hearing on whether they must stay, the lawyers said.

 

Most of the detainees were captured in Afghanistan and have been held for nearly four years.

 

"You are talking about a prison population of hundreds who have decided that with no conceivable change in their future that they just don't care to live anymore, or they are going to make a statement in dying," Musa said.

 

Joshua Colangelo-Bryan, a lawyer for three detainees including Bahraini striker Isa Almurbati, said, "Isa told me that he will end the hunger strike when he is sent home. His philosophy is that he should be sent home or allowed to die because the idea of spending the rest of his life at Guantanamo without any due process is simply unbearable."

 

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1230-02.htm

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People think the fact that basically none of these guys have been charged with a crime means they are innocent. They are at one of the most expensive holding facilities, with an extremely small capacity, under the most public scrutiny, that costs the most per inmate. IMO that means the guys in there are confirmed senior Al Queda and Taliban people (I know for sure the so called "20th hi-jacker" is there because I have the TIME article about his interrogation, one of the 9-11 planners is there as well). There is probably a greater tendency to send prisoners who may not have done anything to a cheaper prison where they stack em in like sardines and release a random thousand guys now and then, like Abu Ghraib.

 

I personally don't have a problem with force feeding them. They are using propaganda with what they've got, plain and simple. If they were serious about killing themselves, they could easily make a noose with clothing or use a number of other easier and quicker ways.

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Originally posted by Frate Raper+Jan 4 2006, 01:02 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frate Raper - Jan 4 2006, 01:02 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>If I posted everything I just wrote I'd get banned.

[/b]

 

Then I'll say it!!!

 

<!--QuoteBegin-Stereotype V.001@Jan 3 2006, 11:58 PM

People think the fact that basically none of these guys have been charged with a crime means they are innocent. They are at one of the most expensive holding facilities, with an extremely small capacity, under the most public scrutiny, that costs the most per inmate. IMO that means the guys in there are confirmed senior Al Queda and Taliban people (I know for sure the so called "20th hi-jacker" is there because I have the TIME article about his interrogation, one of the 9-11 planners is there as well). There is probably a greater tendency to send prisoners who may not have done anything to a cheaper prison where they stack em in like sardines and release a random thousand guys now and then, like Abu Ghraib.

 

I personally don't have a problem with force feeding them. They are using propaganda with what they've got, plain and simple. If they were serious about killing themselves, they could easily make a noose with clothing or use a number of other easier and quicker ways.

 

This is the biggest load of hoarse shit that I have witnessed come from you yet! "Oh well, if they got picked up in Afghanistan and they are muslim and got sent to Guantanamo then they must be guilty"??? Fuckit!! why the fuck was there ever a legal system in the first place then??? If everybody that gets locked up is automatically guilty then what's the purpose for lawyers and Judges and Jurys then??? If they're automatically guilty then what's the point of spending tax dollars to keep them breathing??? Why not just kill them on the spot??? Why aren't graffiti writers just thrown in the dungeon without a trial then? Obviously anybody that gets arrested is automatically guilty... right??? The cops are never wrong just like the US army in Afghanastan is never wrong right... aint that what you're saying??? And if they are guilty then why the fuck can't they actually get charged with whatever the fuck it is that they are guilty of???What the fuck!?!?

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what i've come to believe about this country and all other "democracies" is that when they start out they are great. there is hope and potential. but after a while they just degenerate, or turn into the exact opposite of what they were founded to be against. rights are stripped away little by little until you end up living in a nation like the one we are in today. it's all false conciousness. loophole city.

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Guest imported_Tesseract
Originally posted by SF1@Jan 3 2006, 11:40 PM

How is it that this guy can get away with posting complete horseshit like this and if I call him an idiot I get threatened with being banned??? Fuckit! if you're gonna ban me then ban him too!!! :huh2:

 

Its because opinions arent a reason to get banned, shitalking to eachother and taking an entire thread out of context on the other hand is. We all wish members in here where more intelligent, but if stupidity is on the subject it can get ignored. Seriously, this is the last time this gets clarified, in the past week or so i've gone through talks about this with pretty much all of you, answering directly to each one. If by now you're not getting the point, i simply not care.

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Originally posted by SF1@Jan 4 2006, 12:40 AM

This is the biggest load of hoarse shit that I have witnessed come from you yet! "Oh well, if they got picked up in Afghanistan and they are muslim and got sent to Guantanamo then they must be guilty"??? Fuckit!! why the fuck was there ever a legal system in the first place then??? If everybody that gets locked up is automatically guilty then what's the purpose for lawyers and Judges and Jurys then??? If they're automatically guilty then what's the point of spending tax dollars to keep them breathing??? Why not just kill them on the spot??? Why aren't graffiti writers just thrown in the dungeon without a trial then? Obviously anybody that gets arrested is automatically guilty... right??? The cops are never wrong just like the US army in Afghanastan is never wrong right... aint that what you're saying??? And if they are guilty then why the fuck can't they actually get charged with whatever the fuck it is that they are guilty of???What the fuck!?!?

 

 

"Oh well, if they got picked up in Afghanistan and they are muslim and got sent to Guantanamo then they must be guilty"

That's not even close to what I said. I didn't say that there are no people who are only guilty of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. My point is at the most expensive holding facility, with the smallest capacity for prisoners, where they get that quality one on one treatment, the people are more likely going to be CONFIRMED senior Al Queda and Taliban guys. 600-500 inmates is a drop in the bucket. That's not a political statement, its common sense. Just because its better for your agenda to proclaim they were innocent farmers who were just minding the opium fields until the big bad US snatched them up does not make it so.

 

Interesting you brought the legal system in to this. Foreign combatants, who won't wear a uniform, and committed an act of war do not fit into the legal system. So your graffiti comparison holds no water, but anyone breaking the law realizes if you get caught there are penalties. Don't like having to shit infront of your friends, getting dunked in ice water, and listening to Christina Aguelerra non stop? Shouldn't have paid for your buddies to drive a few planes into my country. The only thing I see wrong with this is the feeding tubes aren't being inserted rectally.

 

"We spend far too much time and effort arguing this kind of bullshit, and the reason we do is that the youngsters on board have tons of commendable idealism"

Right on the fucking money. Ideals sound great on paper and are completely impractical in the real world. Takes some time for people to realize this, other people have it made and get to live in fantasy land forever.

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Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jan 3 2006, 07:58 PM

People think the fact that basically none of these guys have been charged with a crime means they are innocent.

 

nope.

i think that they should be held to our laws.

plain and simple

 

the day we start locking up foreign nationals with no due process and no trial

is the day is starts happening to americans

and maybe even inside america.

 

wake up.

it's not about being naive

it's about where our government is taking our country: to a place without democracy

 

 

Detainees Deserve Court Trials

By P. Sabin Willett

Monday, November 14, 2005; Page A21

 

As the Senate prepared to vote Thursday to abolish the writ of habeas corpus, Sens. Lindsey Graham and Jon Kyl were railing about lawyers like me. Filing lawsuits on behalf of the terrorists at Guantanamo Bay. Terrorists! Kyl must have said the word 30 times.

 

As I listened, I wished the senators could meet my client Adel.

 

Adel is innocent. I don't mean he claims to be. I mean the military says so. It held a secret tribunal and ruled that he is not al Qaeda, not Taliban, not a terrorist. The whole thing was a mistake: The Pentagon paid $5,000 to a bounty hunter, and it got taken.

 

The military people reached this conclusion, and they wrote it down on a memo, and then they classified the memo and Adel went from the hearing room back to his prison cell. He is a prisoner today, eight months later. And these facts would still be a secret but for one thing: habeas corpus.

 

Only habeas corpus got Adel a chance to tell a federal judge what had happened. Only habeas corpus revealed that it wasn't just Adel who was innocent -- it was Abu Bakker and Ahmet and Ayoub and Zakerjain and Sadiq -- all Guantanamo "terrorists" whom the military has found innocent.

 

Habeas corpus is older than even our Constitution. It is the right to compel the executive to justify itself when it imprisons people. But the Senate voted to abolish it for Adel, in favor of the same "combatant status review tribunal" that has already exonerated him. That secret tribunal didn't have much impact on his life, but Graham says it is good enough.

 

Adel lives in a small fenced compound 8,000 miles from his home and family. The Defense Department says it is trying to arrange for a country to take him -- some country other than his native communist China, where Muslims like Adel are routinely tortured. It has been saying this for more than two years. But the rest of the world is not rushing to aid the Bush administration, and meanwhile Adel is about to pass his fourth anniversary in a U.S. prison.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5111301061.html

 

stop living in denial

no, it's not a river in africa.

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“Although they claim they are the advocates of reform and freedom, they are in fact the forces of destruction and devastation,�

“They promise them a comfortable life built on torn bodies...They want us to believe that destruction is reform, killing is life, disorder is order and injustice is justice,�

 

“The Muslim nation finds no refuge from the injustice of the tyrant and international terrorism,�

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I don't doubt there are a few people in Guantanamo that were low level or simply Taliban supporters, with morons like Jack Idema running private prisons ect its feasible. But that example really isn't doing it for me. Of course its a "secret" military tribunal, that only they know about and everyone else has to take their word for it. How Adel would know he was determined innocent if they shipped him off to his prison cell directly afterwards is also a bit strange. And the article really loses its objectivity since its written by the man's lawyer......IE the guy paid to convince people his client is innocent.

 

Dawood- are those quotes directed towards the US for holding people in Guantanamo, or the people in there for cutting teacher's heads off and that type of peace loving stuff? Because they are applicable to either, depending on your political leanings.

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stereotype are you living in a movie or something?

i love it when people refute evidence by saying "i just don't believe it"

well, congratulations on your ignorance.

 

 

Tribunal orders that Guantanamo detainee be freed

US admits man not an enemy combatant

 

By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | September 9, 2004

 

WASHINGTON -- The US military admitted for the first time yesterday that one of the prisoners whom the Bush administration has held without charges for more than two years at Guantanamo Bay was never an Al Qaeda or Taliban fighter and should be immediately released from the interrogation camp in Cuba.

 

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles...ainee_be_freed/

 

 

Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - Page updated at 12:00 a.m.

 

Pentagon review clears 38 of "enemy combatant" status

 

By The Associated Press and The Washington Post

Navy Secretary Gordon England says 38 to go free.

 

 

 

WASHINGTON — Thirty-eight detainees held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, have been declared not to be "enemy combatants" and are therefore eligible for release, the Pentagon said yesterday.

 

That was an increase of five from the last time the Pentagon released results of its reviews, which were concluded in January but took additional time to obtain final approval.

 

Most of the people held at Guantánamo are Afghans, Pakistanis and others captured after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001. They were labeled enemy combatants, which the Bush administration decided did not afford them status as prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.

 

Navy Secretary Gordon England, who is overseeing this and another related review of the detainee cases, told a Pentagon news conference that five of the 38 have been sent to their home countries. The 33 others are still at Guantánamo Bay awaiting transportation.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...4_detain30.html

 

 

 

 

 

Posted 3/10/2004 5:40 PM Updated 3/10/2004 7:34 PM

Britain frees all five former Guantanamo detainees

 

LONDON (AP) — All four men who were arrested on their return to Britain from U.S. military detention at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, were released Wednesday without charge, police said.

 

A fifth man had not been arrested when the group arrived at Northolt Royal Air Force Base Tuesday, and he was freed within hours.

 

A Metropolitan Police statement announced Wednesday night that one of the arrested four had been released. Less than two hours later, a second statement said the remaining three were freed without charge as well.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-03...-released_x.htm

 

 

An Innocent Man in the Hell of Guantánamo

By Sara Daniel

Le Nouvel Observateur

 

Week of Thursday 24 November 2005 Edition

 

He's forgotten nothing of the pain, the humiliation, the solitude. American investigators took a year to clear him. And another year to free him. Beyond the revolting injustice to which he was victim, former journalist Bader Zaman denounces the arbitrariness of American detention centers.

 

...

According to the "Washington Post," there are a hundred ghost prisoners. The organization Human Rights Watch - which called them the "desaparecidos" (the disappeared), in reference to the victims of Latin American dictatorships - mentions 40 people detained in secret in its October 2004 report. For several months, voices have been raised within the CIA itself to contest the legality, and above all, the effectiveness of such prisons.

 

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/112505A.shtml

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"stereotype are you living in a movie or something?

i love it when people refute evidence by saying "i just don't believe it"

well, congratulations on your ignorance."

 

You might want to re-read my post. I said I didn't buy that specific example because (yes, I backed up my reasoning) the military tribunal was top secret so that nobody else knows. That is very convenient. Also, the man who wrote the article is Mr. Adel's lawyer (if the semtex laden vest don't fit, you must acquit!). He is paid to convince people that Mr. Adel is not a terrorist. This makes the article you posted obviously partisan, not to mention it isn't backed up by a single fact that isn't "top secret". That is not to say Adel is automatically a terrorist mastermind, its just an extremely poor piece of evidence to prove the contrary.

 

His name was not mentioned in any of those articles you posted, so I don't see how that is proving he is innocent ....again I'm not arguing that EVERY single person in Guantanamo is Al Queda or Taliban. In my previous post, I wrote it is certainly feasible there are low level people or uninvolved people there. But pretending they are all innocent goat herders/opium farmers who were snatched up by the US makes me wonder who exactly is "living in a movie."

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  • 4 months later...

ahh time for a response?

who the fuck said they were all innocent

don't put your words in my mouth

you're living in a movie, like the bad brains.

seeing the world in black and white is all well and good until you find yourself in a grey area

 

 

 

Gitmo inmates attack guards stopping a suicide

 

Friday, May 19, 2006 Posted: 1533 GMT (2333 HKT)

 

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- Prisoners wielding fans, light fixtures and other improvised weapons clashed with guards trying to stop a detainee from committing suicide at the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military said Friday.

 

....

 

Also Thursday, the U.S. military transferred 15 Saudi detainees to the custody of their country, leaving about 460 detainees at Guantanamo.....

 

so they aren't all guilty? i can't believe it, can you stereotype? how can this be? they are being released after four years and were they ever charged? NO

 

 

U.N. wants it closed

 

The U.N. Committee Against Torture called Friday on the United States to close the detention center at Guantanamo Bay and end questionable interrogation techniques and close any secret prisons.

 

The United States has defended the use of the Guantanamo facility to hold "enemy combatants" without charges for as long as the "war on terror" may last, saying the detainees are suspected of links to al Qaeda or the Taliban

 

But detention without charges runs counter to established human-rights law, and the "war on terror" does not constitute an armed conflict under international law, this report and past U.N. reports have concluded.

 

 

eat shit and die american scum

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we aren't talking about what sort of torture is worse or perhaps...better?

depending on how u look at it...

but it's the fact that we are a nation which VALUES, AND BELIEFE IN FREEDOM AND LIBERTY that tortures people make no sense.....and it's against some act that was passed...im not to sure of the name....but im sure one of you know and can be so kind as to post it....

 

 

see if we let them starve and die...then how will we know which ones die of starvation and which ones are betten to death?

 

dude....things are about to get fucked up if you ask me....

we're not gonna have much loot and if something happens...we're fucked....i called it.

 

 

people don't understand that by fear these american extremists are keepin us hostage dude... next thing you know their going to be kicking down doors....

 

look what happen with hitler....slowly but surely the tides of change do rise....

 

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY BUT IF IT'S AGAINST THE LAW THEN IT'S AGAINST THE LAW (WHEN DEALING WITH HUMANS)

those are people too man....like you and me...i don't get why people dont understand...

the reason why we are never going to move toward peace...is cuz it dosn't pay well...

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  • 4 weeks later...

america gotta simply get outta the middle east completely. do what china does. get oil from the shadiest places and dont ask questions (china gets oil from both sudan and iran). also, let israel defend themselves. they're big boys. lets jus live in peace for a decade.

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