KaBar2 Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Hey, I wasn't here to reply, I was up at Britt at the National Hobo Convention, and then I spent two weeks riding freight trains. I think the London cops thought they had a chance to smoke a known terrorist, and suspected he might be carrying a bomb, and took the opportunity when he ran to kill him. Unfortunately, they misidentified the guy. They they probably lied about it because they knew they fucked up. Poor Brazilian guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Too bad the cops didn't get the right guy. Lawsuit? Against who, the cops that smoked the guy? They don't have any real money. You have to have the PERMISSION of the government to sue the government, and UK is at war, just like the US is. I doubt they will allow the dude's family to sue them, but WTF, I guess it's worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I'd be willing to bet that the family will get some cash thrown their way. I would also assume that some course of action could be taken via the Brazillian government..... I mean the brits got some egg on their face with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooth talker Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Footage of Tube shooting has gaps, says IPCC London Times | August 25, 2005 By Stewart Tendler POLICE watchdogs investigating the death of Jean Charles de Menezes believe that they have all the relevant closed-circuit television film relating to his shooting but admit that there are gaps. According to Brazilian officials, who were briefed yesterday by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, some of the cameras at Stockwell Underground station may not have been working. Manoel Gomes Pereira, a senior Brazilian Foreign Ministry official, said the IPCC had mentioned that some of the CCTV cameras could have been out of order. He added that the three-man Brazilian mission had been told: “Apparently there are parts of the film which do not exist.” After the meeting Nick Hardwick, the head of the IPCC, said that he had no reason to believe anything had been withheld but would not go into details on what the IPCC team has seized or he had viewed. “I am confident that we have all the CCTV footage but as I have said on many occasions we are not going to believe anything until we have independently verified it. Some of the CCTV footage we have had has been crucial to the investigation,” he added. Mr Hardwick would not say whether the CCTV footage included that from the platform when Mr de Menezes boarded a Northern Line train on July 22 or whether there was any film from the carriage where he died. “I am not going to go through a detailed list of all the evidence we have got or not got. At the moment we are still establishing some of that,” he said. But he condemned information leaks on the shooting, and appealed for everyone to maintain a dignified silence during the inquiry. Mr Hardwick added: “I am . . . responsible for this investigation, I still have lots of unanswered questions, I still don't know the truth of what happened. I am surprised at the number of people who speak with certainty that [they] do know.” Last week the IPCC revealed that Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, tried to delay the IPCC inquiry. The final handover did not take place until six says later and there have been bitter exchanges between the commission and Sir Ian. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now someone please tell me how just days after a bombing in this city in the tube, cameras are gonna be on the fritz. Give me a fucking break. The level of stupidity and trust for some higher govermental power is so high in the public that we buy this shit. And even if we dont bye it what an insult to our intelligence if we did. Like this is some fucking movie where the bad guys were able to cut the line or some shit. PATHETIC. Wrong place, wrong time my ass why not just say it for what it is. A SAVAGE LYNCHING BEING COVERED UP BY VERY WEALTHY PEOPLE (the media). To try and throw the blame on this guy is weak and too shows a certain level of arrogant stupidity with a dash of bitchmadeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Bitchmadeness? LOL. You need a new handle "Smooth Talker." What is the problem? This guy got killed by mistake. It sucks. Does his family deserve compensation? Yeah, probably, more or less like if he was accidentally run over by a police car. The cop that smoked him had a few seconds to make a very hard decision. If the Brazilian guy had actually been a terrorist, he could have blown them all to bits with the push of a button. Had the Brazilian actually been a terrorist we would all be praising the cop for his bravery and quick action, for saving all those innocent people on the Tube. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong guy. Hopefully UK will compensate the guy's family and apologize. It's a war. Bad shit happens, but I hope this one screw-up doesn't cause the London cops to hesitate if they are faced with this situation again. They should have arrested the guy on the street, though, before he got to the Tube station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 LOL! That's like if an undiagnosed paranoid schizzphrenic thinks someone is out to kill him and see's the guy on the street and tackles him to the ground and shoots him 8 times in the head with a legally owned and liscensed gun. Then at court he says "oh well, I thought he was gonna kill me. I made a mistake." And then you have people on the internet talking about how the schizzophrenic was in the right and just defending himself and should be let off the hook. :umm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Cops have the power to do that in case you didnt know sf1, youre always ranting about how cops kill innocents all the time and you seem to be surprised here. What makes this brazilian fuck any different that he gets his own thread, "he got shot as a result of the war on terror." Boo hoo, at least they tried to come up with an excuse, alot of times that shit doesnt happen. And theyre just written off. And your example here is faulty if an undiagnosed schizo were to do what you said, then im sure at some point he would be diagnosed and be either a) held mentally incompetent to stand trial, or b) sent to a looney bin for the rest of his life under the guise that he be remanded there until he is well. Its happened before, i think the son of sam tried that shit, look where he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The fact remains that in a city on edge, they still believed he was a terrorist. Yeah they ended up being wrong, but fuck it, I'd have shot the guy too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund@Aug 30 2005, 11:05 PM Cops have the power to do that in case you didnt know sf1, youre always ranting about how cops kill innocents all the time and you seem to be surprised here. What makes this brazilian fuck any different that he gets his own thread, "he got shot as a result of the war on terror." Boo hoo, at least they tried to come up with an excuse, alot of times that shit doesnt happen. And theyre just written off. And your example here is faulty if an undiagnosed schizo were to do what you said, then im sure at some point he would be diagnosed and be either a) held mentally incompetent to stand trial, or b) sent to a looney bin for the rest of his life under the guise that he be remanded there until he is well. Its happened before, i think the son of sam tried that shit, look where he is now. Quoted post And these fithy PIGS should be treated no better. What if the hypothetical schizzo THOUGHT the guy he shot was a terrorist strapped with a bomb? And instead of shooting him on the street he shot him as he got on a train? And what if he used the same BULLSHIT excuse that he THOUGHT the guy was a terrorist? These cops actually sound like paranoid scizzophrenics the way they say they just assumed the guy was a terrorist cause he was dark and that he was strapped with a bomb cause he was wearing a JEAN JACKET on a 75 DEGREE SUMMER DAY! Now because they have a tin badge they are allowed to make paranoid life and death decisions regardin the citizens they are sworn to serve and protect??? Without any reprucusions??? And no I'm not acting "surprized" I'm just reveling in shoveing it down your throat that you are wrong and I am right and you know it yet you still try and invent ways to defend your prescious cops. :five-o: I'm sick of it. This shit goes on in every city all the time and these FILTHY PIGS always say the same shit that they were taught to say in training... "I thought he had a gun" "he looked like he was reaching for a gun". LIES!!! Everyone knows they are lieing and they still get let off the hook every fucking time!!! :hatred: What if somebody LEGITIMATELY kills a cop who thought he was a terrorist and was gonna kill him? Are you gonna call for his head for defending himself? Are you gonna call him a cop killing bastard? What the fuck is wrong with you that you think that just cause somebody is a cop that they are better than anyone else and are unrepraochable? :huh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Show me when said his shooting was justified, i did at the the begginging when he was running away from cops wearing a bulky as jacket in 120 degree weather, but reversed my position after the truth started coming out. Youre not putting anything down my throat i actually agree with you on this. When did i say cops should be treated better? And please fix your grammer and spelling, and no its not because i think im better than you and whatever excuse you want to come up with, yeah its the internet, yeah its a graffiti forum, but id like to understand what youre saying half the time, eg; "unrepraochable". What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 This hypothetical schizophrenic shit has got to go. It is completely irrelevant, and doesn't help whatever your arguement is, SF. 'What if' is not 'what is', so there is no reason to go down that road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 ^^Thank you. *Edit Page 2 Hurray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooth talker Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 'It could have been me instead of Menezes': Omar Abdi August 30, 2005 17:51 IST A Somali-born man, believed to be an acquaintance of one of the four suspects involved in the failed London bombings, has said he could have been shot dead by police instead of the innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes. Abdi Omar, a bus diver, told 'The Guardian' newspaper that his gym membership card, which he claimed to have lent to one of the bombing suspects and which was retrieved from one of the bags the suicide bombers left at the site, led the detectives to keep an eye on his activities, along with Menezes. Omar rented out a flat above Menezes' apartment. Menzes was mistakenly shot dead by British police a day after the failed attacks. "It could have been me who got shot that day," he said. "I don't know what to make of all this. I don't know what I should do," the paper quoted him as saying. Sleuths started watching the apartment in Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, after Omar's gym membership card was recovered from the rucksack holding the bomb intended to blow up a tube train in Shepherd's Bush in west London, the daily said. However Omar claimed his acquaintance with Ethiopian-born Hussain Osman, one of the key suspects, was "not well". Menezes shooting report by year-end "I knew him from the gym, although not well, not 100 percent," he said adding, "I lent him my card. But I have no idea why it was in the rucksack." Detectives who raided the home of Omar's estranged wife few hours after the death of Menezes were told he had left the country for Somalia five days prior to the bombings, The Guardian said. While denying having gone to Somalia, Omar said he was abroad on July 21, the day of the unsuccessful attacks, and "knew nothing about what was happening" until he came back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- this is some heavy shit. this does bring some legitimacy to the "what if" argument. what if you were his neighbor youd be feeling like god was watching over you or some shit. how can we argue about the cops thinking they had a well known terrorist. doesnt that contridict it self. if the guy is well know how could they have mistaken his identity. ide like to see a pic of the guy they were looking for and jean charles. thats before getting shot in the head seven times, im sure we would all look pretty much the same after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Course. I would also like to add that SF needs to reguage his 'showing someone' meter. This applies to all the threads he thinks he just dropped the golden arguement in. No one has had anything shoved down their throats, been owned, or whatever the fuck else. Posting a reply doesn't mean you won an arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakatau Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 this is some heavy shit. this does bring some legitimacy to the "what if" argument. what if you were his neighbor youd be feeling like god was watching over you or some shit. how can we argue about the cops thinking they had a well known terrorist. doesnt that contridict it self. if the guy is well know how could they have mistaken his identity. ide like to see a pic of the guy they were looking for and jean charles. thats before getting shot in the head seven times, im sure we would all look pretty much the same after that. Nope, no legitimacy. Not really that heavy of shit, either. If I was his neighbor, I would be wondering about who might rent the flat now that he was dead, and whether they would be a better/ worse neighbor. I thought the cops thought they had 'a suspect' where does 'a well known terrorist' come into play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by Krakatau@Aug 31 2005, 03:03 AM This hypothetical schizophrenic shit has got to go. It is completely irrelevant, and doesn't help whatever your arguement is, SF. 'What if' is not 'what is', so there is no reason to go down that road. Quoted post No. It is the exact same scenario. Why isn't the mental stability of these cops even being evaluated? They acted like paranoid scizzophrenics and took it to the level that they flat out executed an inoscent civilian on a crowded train WITHOUT ANY sign that he was who or what they claimed he was. Then they LIED to cover their asses because they knew they had no justification to even think he was a terrorist or to fucking MURDER him. It's surprizing that nobody else on the train was hit by ricocheting bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 And like I said earlier this isn't even an isolated insident. This shit happens all the time in every US city and all the cop has to say is "I thought he had a gun and I was in fear of my life" and they get let the fuck off without so much as a slap on the wrist every fucking time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPORTO Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 On the compensation side of things, Jean Charles De Menezes family was secretly offered 15,000 stg by the UK gov a couple of days after the incident. An insult realy, and this was before the revelations of what realy happened surfaced.At the same time the police also leaked false info to the media, stating that the family would recive 500,000 stg. Of course now the police/UK gov disputes this, saying no offer of any compinsation was ever made, either 15,000 or 500,000. Sick to thing that they (the police) had hoped to palm of the desperatly poor De Menezes family with such a megere amount, knowing at the time what we know now. They need to stop digging that hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooth talker Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by KaBar2@Aug 29 2005, 01:12 PM I think the London cops thought they had a chance to smoke a known terrorist, and suspected he might be carrying a bomb, and took the opportunity when he ran to kill him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- sorry i guess it was just a "known" terrorist. And think about wether or not the niegbor is going to be better or not just shows the lack of empathy that you have. I guess not everyone holds empathy as a good trait but to not be concerned for you own life after you neighbor was killed for being brown is arrogant. and i see some folks shooting down the "what if" arguement then agruing that "if it he had been" a terrorist we we all be happy. Whats up with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooth talker Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 BBC | September 25 2005 A woman has been arrested over the leak of findings about the fatal police shooting of Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes on the Tube, it has emerged. The 43-year-old was arrested at one of a number of London addresses searched. The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) leak prompted claims police had covered up details of the shooting at Stockwell station in July. No details were given on the grounds for Wednesday's arrest. The woman was later released on police bail. Electrician Mr Menezes was shot by police on 22 July - the day after several failed bomb attempts - when he was mistaken for one of the bombing suspects. Search warrants The leak is being investigated by Leicestershire Police after ITV News ran details of the IPCC inquiry into the shooting. A police statement said: "On Wednesday 21 September, Leicestershire Constabulary, supported by officers from the City of London Police, executed a number of search warrants at addresses in the London area. "A 43-year-old woman was arrested at one of the London addresses and later released on bail pending further inquiries." The leaked information contradicted much of what had previously been thought about Mr Menezes' death and led his family to demand the resignation of Metropolitan Police chief Sir Ian Blair. Scotland Yard was quoted as saying that Mr Menezes' "clothing and demeanour" added to suspicions that he was a suspected suicide bomber. However, the leaked documents and photographs show the body of Mr Menezes, on the Tube where he was shot dead by police, wearing a denim jacket - not a bulky one as previously described. At the end of August, the IPCC announced an inquiry into how the documents were leaked, led by former Chief Inspector of Constabulary for Scotland Bill Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo knife Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The cops that actually pulled the triggers should be relieved of their duties. Those dudes must be going through some real serious mental problems now. After that I don't think they should ever be assigned to anything remotely similar to this situation.... ..Imagine blowing someone's brains out at point blank range in a moment of panic, and almost instantly realizing it was all a mistake...(an unfortunate yet preventable mistake) At most these guys should sit behind a desk at their little scotland yard office for the rest of their career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Absolutely not! They should be sitting behind bars the same as any other murderer. At the least convicted of 1st degree manslaughter, conspiracy and obstruction of justice (for lieing to cover it up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yum Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I seriously cant understand the people attempting to defend the killing of this dude as a 'regrettable mistake' in the pursuit of some anti terror shit. I thought law enforcment was supposed to have got over the whole shoot first ask questions later thing years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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