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Unwarranted Searches on NYC Mass Transit


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Originally posted by ese@Jul 24 2005, 01:05 AM

I just don't understand how anybody can see this as more than the nypd putting on a show at increasing security. say you're a suicide bomber. you try to get on at a station where bag searches are happening. you turn around and walk out...get on one block down instead and BOOM. or better yet, wade into the bottleneck of people created by the searches and detonate yourself there instead.

 

This is what im saying...

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I think the idea is to only search selected people. I suppose a certain number of Muslim suicide bombers might look like a nice grandmother on her was back to the suburbs, but I seriously doubt it.

 

If done correctly the searches would not create a bottleneck. Those individuals who fit the profile would be pulled aside and searched, and then permitted to go their way.

 

But the "target the bottleneck" is a very valid observation. They target weak spots anyway. If you harden mass transit, thery'll just go after day-care centers, or movie theatres, etc.

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As I see it, These searches are an effect of the situation that we live in. Simple as that! If people werent strapping bombs on themselves and blowing up people and property, The police wouldnt be reacting this way. I have a distinct "Muslim look" I have a Big Beard, I wear traditional Islamic clothing and on occaison I get stopped and questioned by the police. When they see my license and my paperwork and see that I am not hiding anything , they let me go , No problem, It doesnt bother me at all, Unless they are disrespectful and harsh, which I have never encountered.

I had one officer pull a car full of us over and ask us questions about where we were going and where we were and so forth,After he saw we werent up to anything he let us go and apologised and said "you dont know what kind of pressure were under" That was a week after 911. But the reality is that If you have something to hide then you will be annoyed by the police because you are worried about them taking your freedom away. The question is ,Are you a criminal? , because when I was 18 I HATED cops, that was because then , I was Crushing the streets with fill ins and tags every night,racking paint and whatever else, all types of criminal activity.(before I was Muslim) And i hated cops then with a passion. Now that I am married and I have 4 kids and I'm more "domesticated" and religious I don't mind the police much anymore, Even if they pull me over because of "religious stereotyping" Whatever,,,As they see it , Muslims are killing people, Of course it is more complex than that, but Generally, I am just courteous with them , even when the FBI came to see me, I wasn't very nervous, You would think that a person being interveiwed by the FBI would be nervous, (by the way, they visit most muslims nowadays)but ,I didnt have

anything to hide, I dont know any terrorists, nor am I plotting an attack on anybody, So whatever, I just kicked it with them, like they were anybody. Watching my words of course. I don't really buy into the whole "police state" thing much.I think they want us to be the fat ass consumers we already are but supersized, Why? because marshall Law won't be much fun for anyone, nor will it be good for the economy. I do beleive they want to have more control over people in general through economics, but I don't buy the whole marshall law idea. Whatever, they can only "control" as much as God lets them He is truly in Control, and the world is changing now anyway, Sooner or later this whole "war on Terrorism" thing is going to come to a head......trust me.

In these times , it is best to just not get involved, there is too much confusion and killing, and the people who are doing the killing on both sides don't even know who or what they are killing for!

 

Thats the truth!

 

All I know is whoever is doing these bombings , they are killing muslims too, not just "infidels" So If I knew of one of those jokers, I would jimmy superfly snuka his ass!

Muslim or not , Some muslims would disagree with me and they say they would look the other way if they knew of a terrorist plot because they beleive that the "infidels" deserve it. The reason people think that way is for 2 reasons,

#1. American troops kill muslims.

#2 Extremist religious leaders prey on the ignorant and play on their emotions.

 

So really, If you want to stop terrorism, tell Bush to back off, back out , and leave them to themselves. Seriously, You think this war started with 911? this war has been going on for long before 911, except after 911 bush went full blown with it, now he was justified to seize his opportunity and establish a middle east US economic satellite. Yup, imperialism at its best. Of course It doesnt matter what the american public think, the Govt. is going to do whatever they want anyway in the name of freedom, I agree , though , the war is for Freedom, Free to remain a fat ass as long as you want Bubba! The U.S. owns park place and boardwalk and they aint givin em up for nothing! right? No matter how many innocent Iraqis , Afghanis , Syrians, OR American and British troops gotta die for it!

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Everybody's a slave to something, Most people are slaves to their own desires. My point is, you can do whatever you want to do, but as long as you let them, people will have their foot on your neck.

You going to fight the police? you better start with your own heart, because if your own heart is corrupt, then fighting "the man" won't do you not an ounce of good.

 

As soon we start realizing that our problems come from what our own hands have earned , we'll be a lot better off.

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Let me ask you SF1 , where in my last post did I try to convert you , or use a reference to the quran, or talk about God or Allah, or anything related to religion?

Damn, dude , be easy , cool your jets ,man You act like you got some exclusive rights to the 12 oz thread or something, If you dont like my posts so much then just skip them,Don;t pop a blood vessel over it. I wont insult you SF, Just skip over my posts, man....no problem.

Ha,Ha, You act like I can't post on 12oz. from the middle east.

And by the way , Islam is the fastest growing religion WITHOUT any organised propagating ,even WITH all the crazies doing things in the name of Islam and even WITH all the negative publicity and even IF you hate it, It is still the fastest growing religion. So whatever......, Islam would grow with or without me on 12 oz.

 

 

 

"the one who attempts to refute the truth is like a ram who attempts to butt a mountain with his horns, never harming the mountains only breaking his fragile horns....so be easy on your horns"

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Originally posted by Dawood@Jul 25 2005, 10:59 PM

You going to fight the police? you better start with your own heart, because if your own heart is corrupt, then fighting "the man" won't do you not an ounce of good.

 

As soon we start realizing that our problems come from what our own hands have earned , we'll be a lot better off.

 

However much I enjoy bitching at you, these are good words...

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Living in new york and riding the train daily ... I gotta respond to this thread.

 

I'm 100% aware of the "domino" idea in surrendering basic freedoms and rights, with small, less significant elements falling first, eventually tumbling into 1984 and anal cavity searches on your way to the beach.

 

But I can't front like I want to get on the 4 with some nutjob islamic radical packing homemade c4 in his jansport and be blown onto jerome in 400 unidentifiable, charred pieces.

 

It isnt sacrificing much to allow a simple search to prevent the possibility of something so undeniably displeasant occurring (dont get me wrong. Cops start asking for sperm samples I will embrace the path of dissent).

 

And the point kabar made about NOT having illegal shit in your backpack is just the truth.

 

If before the london shit happened I was gonna throw a sack of weed in the bag or decide to bring my bazooka down to the block party in coney, im simply gonna opt to catch a cab or invest in a huffy instead of hopping on the train to accomplish these goals.

 

Case closed in my opinion.

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You just contradicted the shit out of yourself.

By the time they start asking for your "sperm samples" and giving random cavity searches "dissent" will already be outlawed and you fucking sheep won't be able to do or even say shit about it.

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Dissent is already outlawed. You can't protest outside of "free speech zones" hundreds of yards away from anything, and any kind of armed revolt would have had to happen about 30 years ago to be in any way useful.

 

The worst anybody can do anymore is sit around and bitch on the internet.

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Originally posted by Biggus Dickus@Jul 29 2005, 05:40 AM

Dissent is already outlawed.  You can't protest outside of "free speech zones" hundreds of yards away from anything, and any kind of armed revolt would have had to happen about 30 years ago to be in any way useful. 

 

The worst anybody can do anymore is sit around and bitch on the internet.

 

True.

But are we sapose to just sit around and accept that our country has been taken over by Nazis (the Bush family and next Swartzenegger)?

 

Fuck that! Our grandfathers and every vet who fought and/or died for this country dating back to the Revolutionary war would be cursing in their graves to know that America was just handed over to fascists on a silver platter by us, the American People, who IRONICLY were either too pussy or too lazy or too fucking stupid to put up any kind of resistance. (sellouts and frauds like Kabar asside)

 

I think the dead and living vets that fought with the idea (or dilusion) to keep us "free" (even in todays charade) deserve a little more grattitude than for us to just throw in the towel and say "OK, yes sir, whatever you say masta" without at least a fight!!!

 

And I aint talking about no peacefull faggot hippie demonstrations people!!!! :hatred: :hatred: :hatred: :hatred:

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Originally posted by SF1@Jul 29 2005, 04:01 AM

You just contradicted the shit out of yourself.

By the time they start asking for your "sperm samples" and giving random cavity searches "dissent" will already be outlawed and you fucking sheep won't be able to do or even say shit about it.

 

Lol. Take a joke already!

 

Seriously. Having a backpack or a bag searched before you get on a train just isnt that bad of a trade-off for deterring the possibility of being blown up on that train. It IS a violation of a certain personal liberty we've come to enjoy but ... when people are blowing other people up ... it may just be in your own best interest to step back and concede that a certain AMOUNT of personal infringement is unfortunately acceptable in prolonging your chance of survival during your train ride to work. Thats just a shitty fact we're gonna be living with until more positive steps are made towards limiting the amount of maniacs down to blast themselves and their fellow commuters into the atmosphere.

 

And so far, thats ONE step (aside from the more vague and as-of-yet less practiced implications of the patriot act) in a disturbing direction in new york public life.

 

If a second step comes along you can judge it then accordingly ... as opposed to convincing yourself in advance that it'll be the certain bridge to some orwellian helltopia that doomfearing bill cooper groupies have nightmares about.

 

....

 

About those free-speech zones ... at first glance those things are admittedly fucking ridiculous jokes, but you're talking public protest, which is now one small facet of our democracy that typically makes about .09383636% of difference in 2005 american policy and political activity. Lol, one could actually argue that that sort of go-getter, pointless-nuisance elimination is a borderline WELCOME tool for the reduction of what has become purely symbolic fodder for mobilizing fashion protests and sidelining real sociopolitical growth in america. Dudes with picket signs have changed jack shit in 30 years.

 

And dissent hasnt at all been outlawed. Instead, its either a) been marginalized and suppressed by supposedly 'progressive' types' inability to effectively utilize or employ it anywhere where it could actually make a difference, or b) been consequently channelled into new platforms where its effects are either still in their quantifiable infancy or are so vastly different from the preexisting "standard" of dissent that the outcome is still decades away from the availability of definition. Case in point: you ever watch the daily show? Tell me that isnt a powerhouse, BRAND NEW vehicle of national poltical dissent ... and on a CORPORATE level. There are 14 year old kids who watch that show with their 40 year-old voting parents and all drop their jaws in unison when jon stewart dismisses a conservative author's claim that modern culture is deteriorating with "thomas jefferson used to fuck slaves". And fucking viacom pays for it.

 

Dissent is NOT dead. Its just evolving.

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Originally posted by Ten Cents+Jul 29 2005, 07:39 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ten Cents - Jul 29 2005, 07:39 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-SF1@Jul 29 2005, 04:01 AM

You just contradicted the shit out of yourself.

By the time they start asking for your "sperm samples" and giving random cavity searches "dissent" will already be outlawed and you fucking sheep won't be able to do or even say shit about it.

 

Lol. Take a joke already!

 

Seriously. Having a backpack or a bag searched before you get on a train just isnt that bad of a trade-off for deterring the possibility of being blown up on that train. It IS a violation of a certain personal liberty we've come to enjoy but ... when people are blowing other people up ... it may just be in your own best interest to step back and concede that a certain AMOUNT of personal infringement is unfortunately acceptable in prolonging your chance of survival during your train ride to work. Thats just a shitty fact we're gonna be living with until more positive steps are made towards limiting the amount of maniacs down to blast themselves and their fellow commuters into the atmosphere.

 

And so far, thats ONE step (aside from the more vague and as-of-yet less practiced implications of the patriot act) in a disturbing direction in new york public life.

 

If a second step comes along you can judge it then accordingly ... as opposed to convincing yourself in advance that it'll be the certain bridge to some orwellian helltopia that doomfearing bill cooper groupies have nightmares about.

 

....

 

About those free-speech zones ... at first glance those things are admittedly fucking ridiculous jokes, but you're talking public protest, which is now one small facet of our democracy that typically makes about .09383636% of difference in 2005 american policy and political activity. Lol, one could actually argue that that sort of go-getter, pointless-nuisance elimination is borderline a WELCOME tool for the reduction of what has become purely symbolic fodder for mobilizing fashion protests and sidelining real socio-political growth in america. Dudes with picket signs have changed jack shit in 30 years.

 

And dissent hasnt at all been outlawed. Instead, its either a) been marginalized and suppressed by supposedly 'progressive' types' inability to effectively utilize or employ it anywhere where it could actually make a difference, or b) been consequently channelled into new platforms where its effects are either still in their quantifiable infancy or are so vastly different from the preexisting "standard" of dissent that the outcome is still decades away from the availability of definition. Case in point: you ever watch the daily show? Tell me that isnt a powerhouse, BRAND NEW vehicle of national poltical dissent ... and on a CORPORATE level. There are 14 year old kids who watch that show with their 40 year-old voting parents and all drop their jaws in unison when jon stewart dismisses a conservative author's claim that modern culture is deteriorating with "thomas jefferson used to fuck slaves". And fucking viacom pays for it.

 

Dissent is NOT dead. Its just evolving.

[/b]

 

What is survival if you are surviving in chains or on a leash?

 

There are entirely TOO MANY things (besides a bomb) that these pigs are going to be looking to lock niggas up for having in their bags, and that list is growing every day to the point where even your quiet old grandmother has to worry about getting knocked for something!

Look past the bullshit already.

The real threat in this country isn't terrorism, it's the incarceration of freedom in the name of "terrorism". Locking down America isn't gonna stop terrorists, it'll only make them more crafty. If our government really gave a fuck about our safety they'd stop instigateing the arabs to hate us to the point where they hate us so bad that they are willing to smuggle themselves all the way over here to kill themselves to kill us! AND YOU CAN'T SIT HERE AND TELL ME WITH A STRAIGHT FACE THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AINT INSTIGATING TERRORISM AND HATRED FOR US WITH IT'S OVERBEARING FOREIGN POLICIES AND UNJUSTIFIED WARS!

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Society must, and will, protect itself. If criminals were to start targeting ATM's and robbing people in public places, then ATM's will be sited indoors, where they can be watched. If thugs start stealing cars with a screwdriver and a hotwire, then society starts building cars with a steering wheel lock and car doors that are more difficult to jimmy. If the car thieves overcome the steering wheel locks with nifty key guns, society counters with electronic locks, encoded electronic keys and Lo-Jack.

 

The terrorists are attacking "soft" targets. The London "Tube" wasn't guarded by much, before 7/7. Now, there are armed cops and soldiers with machineguns. The security required to safely operate airlines (metal detectors, x-raying carry-ons, etc.) will soon be required to board a train. American schools often have metal detectors now, thanks to school shootings and Columbine. Most of the schools in Houston have HISD police right there, ready to ticket anyone who violates minor laws, or arrest anyone who violates major laws. Three tickets, and it's "Hello, Alternative School and behavior modification."

 

This is not some nefarious plot to take away people's rights. It is what is necessary to keep people who are not restrained by the law from endangering other people by their criminal behavior. If you want to be pissed off at someone, be pissed off AT THE TERRORISTS, since it is their fault, and ONLY their fault, that these layers of security are getting deeper and deeper.

 

And, of course, you have to know that the FBI (or some other agency) is sending Arabic-speaking, Muslim infiltrators into every known mosque and masjid, looking for terrorists, or would-be terrorist recruits. Normal, patriotic Muslims are volunteering to channel information on their fellow Muslims who appear to be fundamentalist radicals. Just as the FBI infiltrates the Klan and the Nazis, they are also infiltrating the mosques and the masjids. Slowly, the terrorist groups are being compromised. It's a long, on-going process.

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Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 29 2005, 08:08 AM

  Now, there are armed cops and soldiers with machineguns.  The security required to safely operate airlines (metal detectors, x-raying carry-ons, etc.) will soon be required to board a train.  American schools often have metal detectors now, thanks to school shootings and Columbine.  Most of the schools in Houston have HISD police right there, ready to ticket anyone who violates minor laws, or arrest anyone who violates major laws.  Three tickets, and it's "Hello, Alternative School and behavior modification."

 

 

 

WOW!!! This sure sounds to me like the COMMUNISM I was taught to fear! :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 29 2005, 08:08 AM

This is not some nefarious plot to take away people's rights.  It is what is necessary to keep people who are not restrained by the law from endangering other people by their criminal behavior.  If you want to be pissed off at someone, be pissed off AT THE TERRORISTS, since it is their fault, and ONLY their fault, that these layers of security are getting deeper and deeper.

 

 

Wrong! They have been planning to instigate and use terrorism as an excuse to do exactly what they are doing to us right now under the guise of "security" for decades before 9-11!

People wrote books about it trying to warn us, and stupid fucks like yourself always called bullshit (conspiracy theory)! Now it's all coming to life as if books like "Behold a Pale Horse" were the frickin Bible prophecising what was to come and you stupid fucking idiots still have the audacity to try and deny what they (the U.S. government coupe) is doing to us and our country and the rest of the WORLD! :burn:

 

Your kids and their kids have to grow up in this country damnit! Do you really want them being subjected to this type of "life"!?!?

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SF1---

My kid is in college, and is the step-mother of two bi-racial children. I was opposed to her taking on these responsibilities until she completed her college education, but she decided that she could not wait until she finished. The kids were in too great a situation of neglect and risk at their biological mother's home to delay.

 

Their biological mother is a fucking idiot that drinks to excess, uses drugs in front of her kids, drives while intoxicated, and is generally about the most irresponsible person over the age of 16 of whom I have ever heard. My kid is a law abiding person who has not had any contact with the cops since she was 16 and got a ticket for MIP. She is a very careful driver. She does not use drugs, and very rarely drinks alcohol. She is an extremely dedicated parent (okay, step-parent), who understands that if these children are to be college-educated, their PARENTS must be college-educated.

 

She is vastly more responsible and successful at her age than was her father (me.) She already owns property, is establishing college-funds for her step-children, is a small investor and is working hard to become debt-free. She and her husband are excellent parents, and I'm really proud of her, not only her accomplishments, but that I had enormous influence on her and the choices she has made.

 

REGARDLESS of how fucked up the world becomes, we will soldier on. It doesn't matter one bit if bags must be x-rayed to board a city bus, or picture I.D.'s must be worn 24-7 or whatever. We will continue to live, and work, and raise children, and teach them to be responsible, law-abiding adults. The world will not collapse because of some stupid excess by the Homeland Security Administration. If they halted all immigration tomorrow and closed our borders, I would be delighted. I think the U.S. armed forces should be pulled out of Iraq as soon as possible, and redeployed along our borders. And then we need to start culling the thugs and assholes and terrorists out of our own population. We have several large cities in which the numbers of people who commit daily felonies is huge. Those individuals need to feel the pressure to live a law-abiding life. At present, they feel entitled to flaunt the law, and to continue living life in a way that harms the entire society. This is wrong, and they should be stopped.

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Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 29 2005, 09:41 AM

And then we need to start culling the thugs and assholes out of our own population. We have several large cities in which the numbers of people who commit daily felonies is huge. Those individuals need to feel the pressure to live a law-abiding life. At present, they feel entitled to flaunt the law, and to continue living life in a way that harms the entire society. This is wrong, and they should be stopped.

 

 

It's called FREEDOM asshole. "Felons" and other "criminals" arent all rapists and murdurers! The more laws that are past the more people that are deemed "criminals". In certain cities GRAFFITI IS A FELONY. Are you gonna sit here and tell us all that we should be removed from society because we "flaunt the law"? Aint you a former hobo? Aint tresspassing on the trains a "felony? Do you smoke weed? What are you gonna say if you get busted buying weed, that it's your fault for being a criminal? :rolleyes:

GET A FUCKING CLUE!

 

Yeah I'm sure you'll still be singing the same tune when the pigs come to lock you up for something frivulous. It'll be your fault when they start locking people up for drinking, or jaywalking, or running stop signs. As you said... you shoulda been a law abiding drone no matter how rediculously out of hand the laws get! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by SF1@Jul 29 2005, 08:04 AM

What is survival if you are surviving in chains or on a leash?

 

There are entirely TOO MANY things (besides a bomb) that these pigs are going to be looking to lock niggas up for having in their bags, and that list is growing every day to the point where even your quiet old grandmother has to worry about getting knocked for something!

 

 

You're getting all riled up and pole vaulting across huge gaps of reason and common sense with the whole 'fear of becoming a slave' thing. Having your backpack searched before you get on a train is NOT "surving on a chain or a leash". Its not even close. Its a realistic response to a situation that could be dangerous for innocent people, and so far its been conducted pretty respectfully. My friend got searched today on his way to work and the shit was purely routine. Took a few seconds and he was on his way. Big fuckin deal.

 

And what exactly else are people gonna be getting locked up for? Drugs? Guns? Knives? Graffiti shit? Just dont bring it on a train if you know you're gonna be searched.

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If all they were after was bombs , they'd have dogs with every cop at the station entrances.

 

..then they would'nt need to open anyones bag, and still be able to grab anyone carrying an explosive..not just one in five.

 

 

-

Masking the fuses, do you think the average cop who's doing the searches really know

what this is when they see it, much less on who and where they can assume they'll find it??

 

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Originally posted by Ten Cents+Jul 30 2005, 12:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ten Cents - Jul 30 2005, 12:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-SF1@Jul 29 2005, 08:04 AM

What is survival if you are surviving in chains or on a leash?

 

There are entirely TOO MANY things (besides a bomb) that these pigs are going to be looking to lock niggas up for having in their bags, and that list is growing every day to the point where even your quiet old grandmother has to worry about getting knocked for something!

 

 

You're getting all riled up and pole vaulting across huge gaps of reason and common sense with the whole 'fear of becoming a slave' thing. Having your backpack searched before you get on a train is NOT "surving on a chain or a leash". Its not even close. Its a realistic response to a situation that could be dangerous for innocent people, and so far its been conducted pretty respectfully. My friend got searched today on his way to work and the shit was purely routine. Took a few seconds and he was on his way. Big fuckin deal.

 

And what exactly else are people gonna be getting locked up for? Drugs? Guns? Knives? Graffiti shit? Just dont bring it on a train if you know you're gonna be searched.

[/b]

 

No you're missing the big picture, the real reason why they wanna look through everyones shit. Like H.Lecter said if they wanted to find bombs they would have dogs. They want to see what you have that they can knock you for. And the more we let them get away with the more they're gonna take and the deeper the hole we dig for ourselves. Once we surender our freedoms we will NEVER see them again! And when they knock you for whatever contraband they find on you you will be in chains when you're sittin shackled on the bus ride to Rykers or one of the many more jails that they're gonna be building to be able to house the enormous percentage of the population.

Soon enough more than half the population is gonna be incarcerated locked the fuck up and enslaved!

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Lol. I guess the anti-terrorism fairy could magically appear and fund the hundreds of bomb sniffing dogs needed at every search-targeted station.

 

She could install platinum xray machines, too!

 

They have whatever small number of dogs they can get right now down there already anyway.

 

And if you get knocked & sent to rikers over one of these bag searches you must have been smoking pounds of the shit you got knocked for before you tried to get on a train with it. Every sane person in the city knows they got cops down there searching shit right now.

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Yo, I agree with SF1 now. Seriously, I mean if they can just look in our bags now, we are already enslaved. It is a full blown police state, and you guys are blinded by this smooth talking president to realize it!! What's next, are they gonna check if we have C4 strapped to us everytime we wear a vest?? wtf!?!!?111!?

 

Here is some food for thought, George Bush's cousin, Billy Bush, is the co-host for entertainment tonight. They have infiltrated every part of our society, I mean now he is telling us about the celebrity gossip. It is definatly a police state. If I can't watch the celebrity gossip, I truly feel like an enslaved incarcerated member of the police state ameriKKKa. Word is bond.

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