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hobo knife

Congressman:

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Monday, July 18, 2005; Posted: 10:17 a.m. EDT (14:17 GMT)

 

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A Colorado congressman told a radio show host that the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.

 

Rep. Tom Tancredo made his remarks Friday on WFLA-AM in Orlando, Florida. His spokesman stressed he was only speaking hypothetically.

 

Talk show host Pat Campbell asked the Littleton Republican how the country should respond if terrorists struck several U.S. cities with nuclear weapons.

 

"Well, what if you said something like -- if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites," Tancredo answered.

 

"You're talking about bombing Mecca," Campbell said.

 

"Yeah," Tancredo responded.

 

The congressman later said he was "just throwing out some ideas" and that an "ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

 

Spokesman Will Adams said Sunday the four-term congressman doesn't support threatening holy Islamic sites but that Tancredo was grappling with the hypothetical situation of a terrorist strike deadlier than the September 11, 2001, attacks.

 

"We have an enemy with no uniform, no state, who looks like you and me and only emerges right before an attack. How do we go after someone like that?" Adams said.

 

"What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said.

 

Tancredo is known in the House for his tough stand on immigration.

 

Mohammad Noorzai, coordinator of the Colorado Muslim Council and a native of Afghanistan, said Tancredo's remarks were radical and unrepresentative but that people in Tancredo's position need to watch their words when it comes to sacred religious sites and texts.

 

 

 

 

I think this is a real bad move...even publicly talking about this is a bad idea. Aren't we supposed to be the civilized ones? To threaten bombing a public place, much less a sacred place sounds very barbaric and uncalled for. This guy's career should be over. I wouldn't be surprised is he personally gets targeted by extremists.

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Yeah I just read this. This congressman has no idea what he's speaking about. Does he really tionk that blowing up Mecca and is going to help this "so called" war on terror? lol, he's out of his mind.

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Bismillah wal hamdullilah wa salatu was salamu ala Rasool Allah Wa ba'd

 

Wow, This congressman has all the answers, take a small, Isolated fire, dump millions of gallons of gasoline and thousands of pounds of firewood on top, that's how we put a fire out here in the good ole U.S of A, Bo!

What a stupid response, I swear , the way some people are talking, I feel like the end of the world is getting really close. Ha Ha, Let them drop bombs on Mecca, hypothetically speaking of course, (because I believe Allah would protect his house), but hypothetically speaking of course, It would be ON! fair to say that even 80 year old muslim women would be tossing grenades after that one. Really, the only way to stop this "terrorism" is for them to stop their aggression on innocent muslims. Really, until that stops, they will keep retaliating, Its like a global bloods and crips, The more they kill muslims, the more muslims will kill them, Its so simple to understand, Muslims are gathering whatever small means they have to fight back. I don't agree with all of the tactics they are using and neither does Islam, but this is the reality, People act as if 911 was the first time they ever heard of any of this. The fact is that the American Govt. has been killing innocent muslims for years before 911 and It eventually built up to that (that is IF muslims were really the perpertrators of 911) Killing of innocent people is wrong , no exceptions, I don't care what propaganda they feed you to make you beleive that killing innocent Afhghanis ,palestinians and Iraqis is ok , freedom, democracy, Mcdonalds and gas prices, whatever.......however you justify it, it is wrong, As wrong as a muslim who straps a bomb on himself and walks onto a bus.

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Can you post a link to the story, I belive this, I'd just like to see the source.

 

BTW this is hilarious. I am completly athiest, but, bombing Mecca(a completly innocent holy ground) with NUCLEAR WEAPONS, if/when we get attacked is a huge mistake, and like someone else said, even talking about this is a huge mistake, islam is the most dominate religion on the world, now not only will we have a few extremist hating us, but the entire relgious body as well.

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Let me get this straight---Tancredo running his mouth about bombing Mecca is bad, because Mecca is a holy site, but it's okay for terrorists to talk shit about setting off a nuclear bomb within the U.S.? As far as I'm concerned, the whole United States is a "holy site."

 

Al-Queda has plenty of problems already. I would think that picking more of a fight with the American people would be a bad idea. However split the American people may be right now about the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq, if anybody were to attack the U.S. with a nuclear bomb, I think that the real American potential for murderous rage and revenge would be revealed. The Japanese thought that by destroying Pearl Harbor and the Pacific Fleet that America would be cowed and humiliated. Not fucking hardly. I can imagine conspiracy theorists thinking that the neo-conservatives or maybe Mossad might set off a suitcase bomb here just to solidify American opinion behind their program, but it's hard to imagine Al-Queda being that dumb. It would be like kicking a hornet's nest. And then the hornets come swarming out. Really, really fucking pissed off.

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

I wanna know why the hell this is a story on CNN. "CONGRESSMAN SAYS SOMETHING STUPID ON RADIO."

 

I can't think of any reason why this would be a worthy news item. It's a subjective attempt to further expose idiotic conservative thought, and only helps fuel the fire, not inform us objectively in any way about anything. It's totally a Fox News thing to do, but from the other side of the equation.

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For one thing we Muslim do not call Mecca (Makkah) a holy site cause nothing is holy but Allah. Two, if the government is stupid enough to do this then they will proving what we have been saying all along that this is a war on Islam. Three, there still isn't any proof that Muslims committed 9/11. There were more than tens of evidences provided by many individual "non-muslim" investigators stating that the Osama video cannot be taken as a smoking gun as it does not fill the criteria. If it were to be taken in any court it would be dismissed on its quality and credibility. And they say they found passports in the rumble, oh come on BS.

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hmm, i did consider the claims of responsibility and what was a clearly joyous response to 9.11 in many parts of the world as an indication that muslims extremists were indeed responsible for the attacks.

 

i am not suggesting that there is no link between them and the u.s. government, but i think it is pretty clear that muslim terrorists commited those acts.

just for one example, we do have the so-caled 20th hijacker in custody, and there is also plenty of evidence of 'missed oppurtunities' for intelligence gathering agencies that may have prevented the attacks, etc.

 

i am not so sure that courts would immediately throw that shit out of court.

and where is the claim of innocence from the so-called perpetrators?

i haven't heard any, in all the statements binladen has made since.

 

it makes a lot of sense anyway. terrorists clearly have an agenda.

who else bu the mujahadeen could pull something like that off?

 

all that being said, of course what that congressman said is ridiculous

 

blowing up mecca would be tantamount to blowing up the u.s

same old shit, different problem:

more violence is not the answer to ending violence.

 

that attitude needs to get spread around to fundamentalists everywhere

whether they be muslim, christian, or mormon or otherwise.

 

preach tolerance.

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Originally posted by SF1@Jul 18 2005, 11:19 AM

Kabars gonna agree with the congressman. :biglaugh:

Haha you were right!!!

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Originally posted by symbols@Jul 19 2005, 11:18 AM

hmm, i did consider the claims of responsibility and what was a clearly joyous response to 9.11 in many parts of the world as an indication that muslims extremists were indeed responsible for the attacks.

 

i am not suggesting that there is no link between them and the u.s. government, but i think it is pretty clear that muslim terrorists commited those acts.

just for one example, we do have the so-caled 20th hijacker in custody, and there is also plenty of evidence of 'missed oppurtunities' for intelligence gathering agencies that may have prevented the attacks, etc.

 

i am not so sure that courts would immediately throw that shit out of court.

and where is the claim of innocence from the so-called perpetrators?

i haven't heard any, in all the statements binladen has made since.

 

it makes a lot of sense anyway. terrorists clearly have an agenda.

who else bu the mujahadeen could pull something like that off?

 

all that being said, of course what that congressman said is ridiculous

 

blowing up mecca would be tantamount to blowing up the u.s

same old shit, different problem:

more violence is not the answer to ending violence.

 

that attitude needs to get spread around to fundamentalists everywhere

whether they be muslim, christian, or mormon or otherwise.

 

preach tolerance.

 

Are you talking about what the media has told us? I'm sorry but there is more evidence that our own government was behind this than Osama.

And Islam does preach tolerance.

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

^^You're gonna tell us you didn't get that evidence from the media either, right?

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I don't give a fuck about a 'holy site' or any attachment to them that people chose to embrace, because it doesn't mean a thing.

 

The thing about this guy that grabs my attention is that a) he sounds like a fucking idiot when he says things like that. b) what he has to say is just as profound as anything my war obsessed 13 year old nephew has to say about the matter. "just throwing ideas out there" Great ideas you fucking mold, how long did it take you to produce that brilliant insight for the american people? This is another case of a politician underestimating our intelligence.

 

If this guy will share these ideas on a radio show, just imagine all the shit he hides from people.

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Guest imported_El Mamerro
Originally posted by Salafi_Zahrah@Jul 19 2005, 06:55 PM

reading is fundamental

 

Oh, right. Written media doesn't count.

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It is absurd that Salafi Zahrah's ridiculous rhetoric is only contested by two members of this board. You all know damn well if some evangelical nut job was saying the same arguments, only fitting their agenda, everyone and their grandma would be attacking them.

 

Salafi- There is no proof that Muslims (your words, not mine. I was under the impression it was a radical form of Islam, but your the expert.) committed 9-11? Face the facts. They were Egyptian, Saudia Arabian, and other middle eastern nationals that were seen on video boarding the aircraft. There is also records of them boarding the flights. They all have visited uncle Osama's summer camp, and were described as the ones who took over the plane by an innocent stewardess on the last communications to the air traffic controllers. Great job trivializing those who died that day to further your own agenda. It is certainly impossible that Muslims, with their omniscience understanding of the world and religion (as you have so articulatley shown us all), could possibly commit something that terrible. And please, fill me in with your proof that MY government was responsible. While your at it, why don't you go ahead and give me your "deeper" books that you use as a sorce of information. Then perhaps I too can adapt your "holier than thou" attitude!

 

And a war on Islam? You would love that, wouldn't you. Then perhaps there would be more suicide-bomber recruits, AKA 14 year old impressionable boys who've balls haven't dropped, but for some reason think they're equipped for all of those 72 virgins awaiting them.

 

Maybe that cool veil you wear not only impairs your vision, but also your objectivity. Have a good day.

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Guest KING BLING
Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jul 19 2005, 08:29 PM

 

Salafi- There is no proof that Muslims (your words, not mine. I was under the impression it was a radical form of Islam, but your the expert.) committed 9-11? Face the facts. They were Egyptian, Saudia Arabian, and other middle eastern nationals that were seen on video boarding the aircraft.

 

 

Actually we have our own small discussion here...it sin't much, but maybe you could contribute...

 

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65405

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the denial stil rampant in the world is pretty sad, really.

 

salafi, i recently read a great article by fareed zakaria in Newsweek

 

an excerpt:

 

The other important difference between the London bombings and 9/11 has been the response of the world of Islam. For months after 9/11, I kept writing that it was sad and disturbing that Muslims were reluctant to condemn the attacks. This time is different. Major Muslim groups in Britain have unambiguously denounced the bombings. Even "fundamentalist" organizations have condemned it. The Muslim Association of Britain, a hard-line group with alleged ties to militants in the Middle East, called the bombings "heinous and repulsive" and urged Muslims to help the emergency services and police. "We have faith in Britain and British people that we as a country will not be defeated by this," said its spokesman, Anas Altikriti.

 

The response outside Britain has also been much stronger than ever before. The grand imam of Al-Azhar, Sheik Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, condemned the bombers but went further, rejecting the argument that this attack could be justified as an attempt to force Britain out of Iraq. "This is illogical and cannot be the motive for killing innocent civilians," he said. More striking have been the condemnations from radical groups like Hamas, Hizbullah and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, all of which have denounced the bombings. Many of them have, of course, coupled their attacks on the terrorists with denunciations of American and British policies in the Middle East, particularly regarding Iraq and the Palestinian territories. But that kind of rhetoric is old news. What is new here is the fact that no one, not even Hamas, can continue to condone or even stay silent about these barbarities.

 

September 11 shocked the Arab psyche. For months afterward, Arabs and many Muslims went through phases recognizable to psychologists: shock, denial, anger. (Remember those absurd claims that 9/11 was a Mossad plot?) They are finally, slowly, moving toward recognizing that there is a great dysfunction in the world of Islam, which has allowed Muslims to concoct wild conspiracy theories, blame others for their problems and, worst of all, condone grotesque violence.

 

Now things are changing. The day before the London bombs, a conference of 180 top Muslim sheiks and imams, brought together under the auspices of Jordan's King Abdullah, issued a statement forbidding that any Muslim be declared takfir‹an apostate. This is a frontal attack on Al Qaeda's theological methods. Declaring someone takfir—and thus sanctioning his or her death—is a favorite tactic of bin Laden and his ally in Iraq, Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi. The conference's statement was endorsed by 10 fatwas from such big conservative scholars as Tantawi; Iraq's Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani; Egypt's mufti, Ali Jumaa, and the influential Al-Jazeera TV-sheik, Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Signed by adherents of all schools of fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), it also allows only qualified Muslim scholars to issue edicts. The Islamic Conference's statement, the first of its kind, is a rare show of unity among the religious establishment against terrorists and their scholarly allies.

 

This hardly puts an end to the struggle within Islam. The same day the Jordanian statement was issued, Al Qaeda in Iraq said that Egypt's ambassador to that country, Ihab al-Sherif, would be killed as an apostate. The day of the London bombings, an Internet message purportedly from Zarqawi's group said the "ambassador of the infidels" had been killed.

 

These kinds of events will continue. There should be much, much greater condemnation from mainstream Islam. Moderates must adopt a zero-tolerance policy on terrorism, regardless of what they think of Iraq, Palestine or any other policy issue. But those clamoring for such condemnations should bear in mind that this will not solve the problem. Even if the moderates win and overwhelm the extremists, there will always be some number of unconverted jihadists, who either out of depravity or conviction seek to do evil. If 99.99 percent of the Arab world rejects terrorism, that still leaves 20,000 people to worry about. If 99.9 percent of the Muslim world is against the terrorists, there's 1 million people out there who are dangerous. And the technologies of destruction ensure that they will, on occasion, be successful.

 

 

**off topic, but oh well

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Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jul 20 2005, 12:29 AM

It is absurd that Salafi Zahrah's ridiculous rhetoric is only contested by two members of this board. You all know damn well if some evangelical nut job was saying the same arguments, only fitting their agenda, everyone and their grandma would be attacking them.

 

Salafi- There is no proof that Muslims (your words, not mine. I was under the impression it was a radical form of Islam, but your the expert.) committed 9-11? Face the facts. They were Egyptian, Saudia Arabian, and other middle eastern nationals that were seen on video boarding the aircraft. There is also records of them boarding the flights. They all have visited uncle Osama's summer camp, and were described as the ones who took over the plane by an innocent stewardess on the last communications to the air traffic controllers. Great job trivializing those who died that day to further your own agenda. It is certainly impossible that Muslims, with their omniscience understanding of the world and religion (as you have so articulatley shown us all), could possibly commit something that terrible. And please, fill me in with your proof that MY government was responsible. While your at it, why don't you go ahead and give me your "deeper" books that you use as a sorce of information. Then perhaps I too can adapt your "holier than thou" attitude!

 

And a war on Islam? You would love that, wouldn't you. Then perhaps there would be more suicide-bomber recruits, AKA 14 year old impressionable boys who've balls haven't dropped, but for some reason think they're equipped for all of those 72 virgins awaiting them.

 

Maybe that cool veil you wear not only impairs your vision, but also your objectivity. Have a good day.

 

Does it make you post more affective by insulting me? Go here http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=52450 and read some of my post near the end of the thread there you will see my answers I have already covered this. But since you want to be so disrespectful I have nothing else to say to you.

 

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion." (Al-Kafirun 109:6)

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Look here:

 

Muslims did it.

 

Even if the US Govt. did it, Muslims claim the credit and celebrate the acts. Anyone who claims/celebrates is just as guilty in my eyes. This is the face of the enemy in this war against terrorism, not Islam.

 

There is also no denying that certain radical factions of Islam promote the ideas of forced conversion vs. destruction to anyone they consider heretical.

 

Further, I'm not so stupid that I think these radicals represents all muslims, nor that I don't realize that these groups also target other muslims who they consider not devout enough.

 

The same things are undeniably true concerning certain Christians.

 

Undeniably.

 

"Wake up!" (Spike Lee 198:8)

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Ok, let me clear this up, to the best of my ability, First off, None of us knows who really flew those planes into the towers, I mean, we know who the media is blaming, the arab guys whose pictures we've all seen. But do we know their backgrounds, their affiliations, their families or their intentions? no , of course not, all we have the ability to do is speculate. So, that being said, I dont know if "muslims" actually did this or not or whether it was organised by hasidic Jews to scar the name of Islam in the eyes of people.Or if it was ignorant muslims who were duped by some deviant sheikh. Nobody knows who is TRULY behind those attacks.

Heres my theory, during the time of the prophet Muhammad there were known hypocrites among them who used to undermine the cause of Islam while outwardly showing that they were muslims and that they were for Islam. That was during the life of the messenger of Allah!!! So what about now? And I beleive that they will take whatever means that they have available to them to undermine the superiority of Islam. Islam is the truth, whether you beleive or you do'nt believe, Islam is only a proof for the one who bears witness to it and a proof against the one who rejects it. All that being said, whoever knocked down those towers were either ignorant people (muslim or non muslim) who were deceived into thinking that they were doing something good or Just straight out evil people who sought to harm the Image of Islam and kill a few thousand innocent people in the process

hence ....the work of the hypocrites all over again!

 

This is what Allah says in his book about the hypocrites>>

 

And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allâh and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not. (Al-Baqarah 2:8)

 

Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allâh, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salât (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allâh but little. (An-Nisa 4:142)

 

 

Verily, Allâh knows those who believe, and verily, He knows the hypocrites [i.e. Allâh will test the people with good and hard days to discriminate the good from the wicked (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test)]. (Al-'Ankabut 29:11)

 

And symbols...As far as the muslim world not condemming the attacks on the WTC. Here are the verdicts from some of the the most prominent muslim scholars on the wtc attacks and notice the dates, within a month, or a week or Sept 11

 

http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0011018.htm dated Oct 18

http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0010918_2.htm dated sept 18

 

http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0010917.htm dated sept 17

 

And if you all think this war is not a war on Islam and it is just a war on terrorism , then YOU need to wake up and learn your history. The disbeleivers have been trying to put out the light of Allah since the beginning of time, remember Islam is as old as time itself and as long as there have been beleivers there have been disbeleivers trying to exstiguish this light!!! Anyway, theyve been killing muslims and occupying muslim lands Loooooooong before this So called "war on terrorism" that slogan is just some propoganda tool to push their objectives with little opposition because , who wouldnt be against terrorism? Except the fact that terrorism is being perpertrated by more than angry muslims.....We've seen the likes of Bush and his people before.

 

 

 

this was asked to one of the scholars of Islam

 

Question: There are those who commit crimes and attribute themselves to Islaam. What is the effect of this?

 

Response: As I stated, the perpetrator of a crime is alone responsible for his crime. If a person commits some thoughtlessness or stupidity and then does a criminal act, even if they are Muslim and even if he prays and fasts, his deed is not an argument for those who wish to wrong Islaam. {end of quote}

 

So the fact that I am here defending Islam is a proof that the non muslim world is suspicious of Islam because of the acts of misguided people who were not following the teachings of Islam at all....

 

And Stereotype, Have some respect for women....either say something good , or keep quiet....

 

 

our Lord! Put not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Pardon us and grant us Forgiveness. Have mercy on us. You are our Supporter and Protector and give us victory over the disbelieving people." (Al-Baqarah 2:286)

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