oneeightyone Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i too agree with the smart people. see, cops may suck but only because the majority of people that say that... do bad shit. but honestly, cops dont shoot for no reason, especially when there's children involved, it's just sense and it doesnt really matter what we think, it's jut the way shit is. r.i.p to the baby girl. sucks when shit like this happens, but until people learn to be true fucking parents shit like this will always go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtorder Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i understand the whole idea about getting fired at and firing back; however, police go to school to learn how to deal with shit like this. they have swat teams with the most advanced equipment for a reason. is there a reason they couldn't have sharp-shooted(is that a word) the guy and then saved the girl's life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadawhat Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 with the history of the LAPD, especially in the south central area of LA, I do not sympathize for these cops at all. this is all too common of an occurance in LA. cops are trigger happy and this is one of the worst occurances. there are other ways to handle a stand-off than blindly opening fire. these cops are racist fucks ...and they hide behind being threatened and the badge to get away with shit like this all too often with hardly any (if any) reprecussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destroya Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 can someone go indepth withan explanation on how this could have been better handle d? preferably with sources and precedents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nozaki Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 rip baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadawhat Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Originally posted by destroya@Jul 11 2005, 12:12 PM can someone go indepth withan explanation on how this could have been better handle d? preferably with sources and precedents? Quoted post They should of called CTU at let jack bauer go at it solo. job done. no i can't go into depth of how it could have been better, thats what they train cops for...but the fact that there is a 17month old baby dead is fact enough that it could of been handled better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destroya Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 naahhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Originally posted by nomadawhat+Jul 11 2005, 01:30 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomadawhat - Jul 11 2005, 01:30 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-destroya@Jul 11 2005, 12:12 PM can someone go indepth withan explanation on how this could have been better handle d? preferably with sources and precedents? Quoted post They should of called CTU at let jack bauer go at it solo. job done. no i can't go into depth of how it could have been better, thats what they train cops for...but the fact that there is a 17month old baby dead is fact enough that it could of been handled better. Quoted post [/b] I believe they did everything in their power to save that childs life. Its very easy to judge the officers from the safety of your keyboard, but you werent there(And neither was I). Alot of people here keep on repeating that snipers could have gotten the job done. If snipers could have gotten the job done then it WOULD have been done. If the guy and his baby were moving quickly then a sniper might have accidentally hit the baby rather than the perp which has happened. And snipers are almost always only given the order to fire when an innocent persons life is in immediate danger, and so the risk must be taken. And even if the sniper hits the suspect, there are no guarantees, he would die instantly. Shots that cause sever and rapid blood loss will usually cause unconciousness within 10-15 seconds and ALOT can happen in that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_dowmagik Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I can't believe how stupid some of you sound. Regardless of occupation, if someone accidently kills a baby, they're going to feel like utter shit. And about 300 shots being fired, if I'm not mistaken, when an officer has to fire his weapon to defend his life or others he is TRAINED to squeeze the clip until its empty. At least thats what the cops my mom knew when I was a young lad taught me. If they could only see me now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 This guy was straight up carrying a baby and a gun out to try to keep the cops from shooting him. That was turbo shitty, and he deserved what he got. I feel sorry for the baby, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intangible Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 FUCK THE LAPD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I'll bet if the dude was a 12 year old un-armed girl without a baby in hand they woulda just tazered the bitch. But since it was an armed dude they couldn't have done that. Or just shot him in the legs right? It aint like they coulda took into consideration that the nut was holding a BABY and instead of shooting, just ducked for cover or something till dude either ran out of bullets or something right? Fuck the BABY at least they got the perp right? :rolleyes: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Oh yeah run for cover. Thats a fantastic idea! SF1 Youre a genius! Lets also get rid of guns because if all cops have to do is run and cover until perps run out of bullets then theres no need for anymore killing, well just equip them with flash lights because tazers are too strong and mace is as well, and since we dont want another Rodney King lets get rid of the batons. Why didnt anyone think of this earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund@Jul 11 2005, 06:41 PM I believe they did everything in their power to save that childs life. Its very easy to judge the officers from the safety of your keyboard, but you werent there(And neither was I). Alot of people here keep on repeating that snipers could have gotten the job done. If snipers could have gotten the job done then it WOULD have been done. If the guy and his baby were moving quickly then a sniper might have accidentally hit the baby rather than the perp which has happened. And snipers are almost always only given the order to fire when an innocent persons life is in immediate danger, and so the risk must be taken. And even if the sniper hits the suspect, there are no guarantees, he would die instantly. Shots that cause sever and rapid blood loss will usually cause unconciousness within 10-15 seconds and ALOT can happen in that time. Quoted post Couldn't help but chime in here. First of all, from what I've heard there were eleven different cops involved in the shooting alone. That right there is absolutely fucking ridiculous. The people on this thread saying "the cops did all they could, couldn't of been prevented, blah blah" have very little idea of what they're talking about. Again, I could be wrong, but from what I've heard the police had an AMPLE amount of time to evacuate the immediate area, move in with swat, or atleast make some sort of gameplan other than "let's just get a shitload of people and open fire until he's down." In regards to your expert sniper information, for someone who is trained at taking down a man, in full sprint, in upwards of 800 yards (that is alot but not unheard of), an intoxicated man moving a baby around from about 100 yards (residential area, correct?) away isn't exactly some James Bond shit. And you would be suprised at the stopping power of a high powered rifle firing a high caliber bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 this thread is pretty funny, its unforunate what happened, but not for nothing cops regardless of their location, do not go around shooting at little kids, unless its absouletly necessary. this guy already shot at them, and hit one of the officers, i'm no fan of the police, but if some guy shot one of my co-workers/friends, i don't know how much restraint i would be able to hold while the guy is coming outside of his house, armed, again. again rip baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jul 11 2005, 08:27 PM Couldn't help but chime in here. First of all, from what I've heard there were eleven different cops involved in the shooting alone. That right there is absolutely fucking ridiculous. The people on this thread saying "the cops did all they could, couldn't of been prevented, blah blah" have very little idea of what they're talking about. Again, I could be wrong, but from what I've heard the police had an AMPLE amount of time to evacuate the immediate area, move in with swat, or atleast make some sort of gameplan other than "let's just get a shitload of people and open fire until he's down." In regards to your expert sniper information, for someone who is trained at taking down a man, in full sprint, in upwards of 800 yards (that is alot but not unheard of), an intoxicated man moving a baby around from about 100 yards (residential area, correct?) away isn't exactly some James Bond shit. And you would be suprised at the stopping power of a high powered rifle firing a high caliber bullet. Quoted post SWAT wouldnt have done anything to change the situation. You can have as high a caliber as you want, it doesnt necessarily mean youll kill the guy. Any hunter here experienced enough can tell you stories of animals being shot through the heart with high powered rifles, and the animals covering a large distance from when they were shot to the time they die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 We will never know if SWAT would have changed the situation, since it wasn't used. And that animal comparison would have been terrific had this incident taken place in the backwoods of Alaska, and grizzlies had been involved. And even if it was, sniper rifles aren't pappy's big deer huntin shotgun. They will peel open your head and spill your brains out, and that's from a long ways off. Go visit some of the more unsavory websites and look at sniper victims if you don't believe me. I guarantee you a well aimed shot to the head from a good rifle in the right hands will take anyone down immediatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Originally posted by CACashRefund@Jul 12 2005, 03:16 AM Oh yeah run for cover. Thats a fantastic idea! SF1 Youre a genius! Lets also get rid of guns because if all cops have to do is run and cover until perps run out of bullets then theres no need for anymore killing, well just equip them with flash lights because tazers are too strong and mace is as well, and since we dont want another Rodney King lets get rid of the batons. Why didnt anyone think of this earlier? Quoted post Hey dickhead, would you shoot at a dude that was holding a baby? If so go fuck yourself. Yo if joe random is involved a shoot out and accidentally kills an inoscent bystander with a stray bullet he get's charged with murder right? Even if he was shot at first right? Food for thought. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Police officers are sanctioned to use deadly force in situations where a civilian wouldnt not be able to do the same. And nowhere did i say the shooting of the baby was justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Originally posted by SF1@Jul 11 2005, 11:36 PM Yo if joe random is involved a shoot out and accidentally kills an inoscent bystander with a stray bullet he get's charged with murder right? Even if he was shot at first right? Quoted post If he was acting in self-defense, and using reasonable force considering the circumstances (i.e., he was being shot at), then, no, he wouldn't get charged with murder if he accidentally killed a bystander. He may get charged with involuntary manslaughter if he was criminally negligent, but he won't get charged with murder. He wouldn't have the mental state required to be charged with murder (specific intent or malice). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Someone should have been able to peel his cap clean back with a pistol, assault rifle, or sniper rifle. It's not like you can ask perps to hold still while you shoot them. Hitting moving targets is part of the job. Better yet maybe they coulda thrown knockout gas in there while he was holed up. I'm guessing they panicked and went ballistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I saw this when I opened the paper this morning: "Man uses baby as shield". Yeah, because the cops never do anything wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 ODS-1--- No, the headline read "Man uses baby as shield" because that's what happened. What kind of asshole uses a BABY as a shield against the cops? The guy was just another lunatic trying to "suicide by cop" and he wanted to punish his wife by taking the kid with him. I happen to agree that the cops should have shot him in the legs, or maybe tried some kind of other solution, but I can't fault them too much. The guy was shooting at them first. The very first thing that they teach the police is "Make sure that, at the end of the shift, YOU go home alive." There are untold zillions of troubled, crazy, violent people in the world. The police have to deal with them day after day after day. Tomorrow, the day after, the day after that, there will always be more fucked up, irrational people breaking the law, hurting each other, thinking that they are entitled to harm everybody else to get what they want. A small fraction of those people get arrested, and an even smaller fraction ever get convicted and sent to prison. The cop is looking at thirty or forty YEARS of dealing with all these assholes. Where is their responsibility to obey the law, to refrain from using threats or violence to get their way? Where is their responsibility to live their lives peacefully and legally? Everybody knows--DON'T BREAK THE LAW. If you break the law, you can certainly expect negative consequences. This guy was way off the scale when it comes to irrational, fucked-up behavior. If he would jeopardize the safety and well-being of a 17-month old baby, what else would he do? The responsibility of the baby's death rests squarely with the perpetrator. RIP Baby. Sympathy to both the kid's mother, and also the cops involved, who have to live with the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Originally posted by ILOTSMYBRAIN@Jul 11 2005, 11:30 PM this thread is pretty funny, its unforunate what happened, but not for nothing cops regardless of their location, do not go around shooting at little kids, unless its absouletly necessary. again rip baby. Quoted post um, no. cops killed a young black boy holding a toy gun a few years ago...one of more than a few people killed over mistakes. In August 1998, a 16-year-old New York boy bearing a submachine gun water pistol was shot six times in the legs by police. Another boy, this one 13, was shot and killed in 1994 by a police officer who mistook his toy gun for the real thing. no matter what, cops have chosen to go into their profession, i don't care what the fuck they have to deal with, it's the life they chose, AND NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE MOST DANGEROUS OCCUPATION no cop ever put anything on the line for me they have copped out though called me a liar and fucking made me a victim so fuck the police TEN MOST DANGEROUS JOBS (fatalities per 100K) Timber cutters 117.8 Fishers 71.1 Pilots and navigators 69.8 Structural metal workers 58.2 Drivers-sales workers 37.9 Roofers 37 Electrical power installers 32.5 Farm occupations 28 Construction laborers 27.7 Truck drivers 25 suck it cop lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 addendum... Workplace murders fall Homicides in the workplace fell to 609 in 2002. The total is slightly lower than the 643 in 2001, but well below the in high of workplace homicides of 1,080 in 1994. Nearly nine out of 10 retail cashiers who died on the job last year were murdered. Restaurant and hotel management also saw a high percentage of workplace murders, with homicides accounting for 80% of workplace deaths. Cab and limousine drivers were also targeted. Fifty-nine percent of drivers and chauffeurs killed on the job were murdered, much higher than the percentage killed in highway accidents. But highway accidents were the biggest overall killer in 2002, accounting for a quarter of all worker deaths. Falls killed 13%. Men were still, by far, the most likely to be killed on the job. Ninety-two percent of all workplace fatalities were male. Among the 441 women who died on the job, though, the chief cause of death was homicide. notice, cops not mentioned any fucking where Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicide Bomber Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 im guessing the cops just freaked and shot in his direction... and i think the baby has a lot better chance of surviving from being dropped on its or stomach then being shot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACashRefund Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Just found out that the vops who shot him were SWAT officers, the cop who got injured was one as well. So much for all the people who said SWAT could have handled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Originally posted by symbols+Jul 12 2005, 01:47 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (symbols - Jul 12 2005, 01:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ILOTSMYBRAIN@Jul 11 2005, 11:30 PM this thread is pretty funny, its unforunate what happened, but not for nothing cops regardless of their location, do not go around shooting at little kids, unless its absouletly necessary. again rip baby. Quoted post um, no. cops killed a young black boy holding a toy gun a few years ago...one of more than a few people killed over mistakes. In August 1998, a 16-year-old New York boy bearing a submachine gun water pistol was shot six times in the legs by police. Another boy, this one 13, was shot and killed in 1994 by a police officer who mistook his toy gun for the real thing. no matter what, cops have chosen to go into their profession, i don't care what the fuck they have to deal with, it's the life they chose, AND NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE MOST DANGEROUS OCCUPATION no cop ever put anything on the line for me they have copped out though called me a liar and fucking made me a victim so fuck the police TEN MOST DANGEROUS JOBS (fatalities per 100K) Timber cutters 117.8 Fishers 71.1 Pilots and navigators 69.8 Structural metal workers 58.2 Drivers-sales workers 37.9 Roofers 37 Electrical power installers 32.5 Farm occupations 28 Construction laborers 27.7 Truck drivers 25 suck it cop lovers. Quoted post [/b] you have be kidding me, notice they were holding TOY GUNS that looked like the real thing, if someone has something that resembles a lethal weapon on them, and i think they would turn around and use it on me, you better belive im going to react first. i'm no "cop lover" i'm just going off the information that was given to me here in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 How many water guns look like the real thing? Bottom line is that the vast majority of cops become cops because they're powertripping bigoted assholes to begin with and they crave any excuse to abuse their authority in any way possible then smugly tell you "I was in fear of my life" with a cocky tone of voice and cocky grin on their face. Most cops jump at the oportunity to shoot a kid playing with a water gun, or a yappy poodle barking at them because they know they can get away with it and that's exactly why they become a cop in the first place. Also every time a real motherfucker becomes a cop and either exposes abuses or complains to the brass or IA about the fucked up shit they see they quickly get fired and/or fucked up by the other cops in the union. Fuck a police!!! :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: :five-o: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KING BLING Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Yeah, the LAPD has a long record of community building and protecting.... http://www.aclu-sc.org/News/OpenForum/1012/100813/ On February 6, just before 4:00 a.m., an LAPD officer shot and killed Devin Brown, a 13-year-old African American eighth grader who attended Auburn Middle School, a magnet school in South Los Angeles for gifted students. Brown, unarmed, was driving a 1990 Honda Accord and had led police on a three-minute pursuit. The police fired ten rounds into the car while Brown was driving toward the police cruiser in reverse. Many details, such as the timing of the shots (whether they occurred before or after Brown collided with the vehicle), the speed of the vehicle, and the exact direction from which the shots were fired, have yet to be determined. http://www.injusticebusters.com/05/California_police.shtml LOS ANGELES Prosecutors Thursday announced they will not file criminal charges against a police officer who was videotaped pummeling a car-theft suspect with a metal flashlight, a case that critics compared to the racially charged Rodney King beating. After a five-month review, the Los Angeles County district attorney's office concluded there was insufficient evidence to charge Officer John Hatfield, who struck Stanley Miller 11 times with a 2-pound steel flashlight after a chase in South Los Angeles on June 23. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bi...ack=1&cset=true The LAPD deliberately hid witness statements tying corrupt police to the slaying of Notorious B.I.G., a federal judge said Thursday in granting a mistrial and potentially lucrative attorney fees to the rapper's family. U.S. District Court Judge Florence-Marie Cooper, in a written order upholding an earlier oral ruling, said the family's wrongful-death case had been hopelessly disrupted by the Los Angeles Police Department's concealment of a jailhouse informant's statements. The informant, cellmate to then-Officer Rafael Perez, the central figure in the Rampart police scandal, said Perez and rogue officer David Mack were involved in the slaying of the rapper, born Christopher Wallace. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/09/compton.shooting/index.html LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- More than a dozen Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department deputies will be disciplined for their roles in a controversial shooting incident in which more than 120 rounds were fired at a vehicle driven by an unarmed suspect, Sheriff Lee Baca announced Thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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