Canada approves gay marrige rights

[Dawood]

I didn't "choose" to be straight, did you? Ever since I was at least 4 I had a thing for the bitches. Did you actually sit down and weigh the pros and cons of wanting to fuck bitches or dudes? Did you actually have to think about it and make up your mind that you like bitches? If so then maybe you're in denial of your actual sexuality. :haha:

Quoted post

 

 

Actually, You did choose to be straight , Maybe it wasnt in a split second where you actually said to yourself, yeah I think I like women, but you chose NOT to poke somebody's butthole (good choice), therefore choosing to be straight ! And as far as the "let the fags be fags" crowd, ok come back to me when you have kids and its your job to teach them right from wrong , when you see two faggots holding hands and kissing in public and your son or daughter asks you about it (already knowing its strange) then see what you will tell them. Its easy to be so disconnected from having morals and manners when all you have to worry about is your own selfish little asses and youre not the provider and nurturer and educator of little minds who depend upon you for gudance. I used to be just like some of you, Like whatever ,man you do you and I do me, and all that, but when you have 4 kids and a wife you start to look at the bigger picture and how the people around you affect your family and their lives. You start to get pissed off at people's immorality and shamelessness. In other words self preservation kicks in, real life, not some one player video game,

[SF1]

Originally posted by Dawood@Jul 18 2005, 01:43 AM

Actually, You did choose to be straight , Maybe it wasnt in a split second where you actually said to yourself, yeah I think I like women, but you chose NOT to poke somebody's butthole (good choice), therefore choosing to be straight ! And as far as the "let the fags be fags" crowd, ok come back to me when you have kids and its your job to teach them right from wrong , when you see two faggots holding hands and kissing in public and your son or daughter asks you about it (already knowing its strange) then see what you will tell them. Its easy to be so disconnected from having morals and manners when all you have to worry about is your own selfish little asses and youre not the provider and nurturer and educator of little minds who depend upon you for gudance. I used to be just like some of you, Like whatever ,man you do you and I do me, and all that, but when you have 4 kids and a wife you start to look at the bigger picture and how the people around you affect your family and their lives. You start to get pissed off at people's immorality and shamelessness. In other words self preservation kicks in, real life, not some one player video game,

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Actually no, I never had to choose. I didn't think anybody ever had to chose. I always been attracted to females and have never been attracted to dudes. It has nothing to do with choise, it's called "SEXUAL ORIENTATION".

 

And no, I never chose to not "poke somebodies butthole" because I am a fan of anal sex (with women)! ;)

 

When my kids see fags or dikes kissing and holding hands and they "already know it's strange" I will be a happy man knowing that they think it aint right! I will also teach them what I was taught... It takes all kinds of people to make up the world---> fags, straight, housemakers, whores, businessmen, carpenters, CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS, etc, etc. And that you might not have to agree with someones point of veiws, but you should fight for their freedom to have and express those point of veiws as long as they aint actually harming someone. And to attempt to oppress someone for being different than you is wrong.

 

Fags fucking eachother in the ass, or getting married might be discusting and repulsive to you and me, but it aint causing nobody any harm just like NON CHRISTIANS practicing their religion causes nobody any harm, and both should be protected equally in a so called "FREE SOCIETY" made up of all kinds of different people.

 

 

You dig???

 

 

 

Fags don't have a "fagland" to retreat to, they also should have no obligation to if we really live in a "free country".

If you have a problem with people being free and you think everyone should conform to your brand of morality then why don't you take your family and raise them in a Muslim country? :rolleyes:

[Dawood]

Originally posted by SF1@Jul 18 2005, 02:05 AM

then why don't you take your family and raise them in a Muslim country? :rolleyes:

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Ha ha, Its funny you came to that conclusion so fast , It took me 5 years to realise I have to gat the hell out of this country, I'm working on it, you catch on quick though SF....

[bodice_ripper]

sounds pretty revisionist to me angelofdeath.....

[Guest KING BLING]

Originally posted by angelofdeath@Jul 17 2005, 04:19 PM

 

the founding fathers intended not for the federal government to decide these matters of morality, but for the states to decide.

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These weren't written for "gay marriage" issues but they outline the intent - states are independant, but the federal government exists to ensure basic fairness, retain uniformity, and ensure the rule of objectivity and the upholding of the principles of freedom for every individual. If the ideas you describe were real, everything in article IV would not exist and Utah would have its own army, blacks still wouldn't be able to ride in the front of the bus, and while murder might still be illegal, almost all red states would accept the occasional beating of homosexuals...

 

Article. IV.

Section. 1.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

 

Section. 2.

Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

Ammendment...

Article [i.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[angelofdeath]

Originally posted by KING BLING+Jul 18 2005, 03:39 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KING BLING - Jul 18 2005, 03:39 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-angelofdeath@Jul 17 2005, 04:19 PM

 

the founding fathers intended not for the federal government to decide these matters of morality, but for the states to decide.

Quoted post

 

These weren't written for "gay marriage" issues but they outline the intent - states are independant, but the federal government exists to ensure basic fairness, retain uniformity, and ensure the rule of objectivity and the upholding of the principles of freedom for every individual. If the ideas you describe were real, everything in article IV would not exist and Utah would have its own army, blacks still wouldn't be able to ride in the front of the bus, and while murder might still be illegal, almost all red states would accept the occasional beating of homosexuals...

 

Article. IV.

Section. 1.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

 

Section. 2.

Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

Ammendment...

Article [i.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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[/b]

 

this is where the judicial dictatorship has won. they have taken power from congress.

 

you think shit like this is crazy? utah having its own "army" etc etc?

research jeffersons presidency when he called up the state militias, and connecticut among others practically told him to suck it, and they would only fight when thier state was threatenend.

 

 

now stick y'all's head back in the PC ground.

[Salafi_Zahrah]

I agree with Dawood.

 

Homosexuality is a clinical developmental gender identity disorder, and it was removed fro the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in the mid-70's ONLY because of political pressure, NOT clinical evidence of being hereditary or just being born that way. If that was the case than child molester could use the same argument saying he/she was born that way.

 

Rectal sex is dangerous. During rectal intercourse the rectum becomes a mixing bowl for 1) saliva and its germs and/or an artificial lubricant, 2) the recipient's own feces, 3) whatever germs, infections or substances the penis has on it, and 4) the seminal fluid of the inserter. Since sperm readily penetrate the rectal wall (which is only one cell thick) causing immunologic damage, and tearing or bruising of the anal wall is very common during anal/penile sex, these substances gain almost direct access to the blood stream. Unlike heterosexual intercourse (in which sperm cannot penetrate the multilayered vagina and no feces are present) rectal intercourse is probably the most sexually efficient way to spread hepatitis B, HIV syphilis and a host of other blood-borne diseases.

[bodice_ripper]

I also don't understand why people need to believe they were born that way. Fine. I choose to fuck other women. I'm molesting consenting adults. Its none of your concern really. And you can keep marriage - it seems to me that the straight population are MORE than capable of devaluing and undermining it without the help of gay people.

 

But, if I want to enter into a contract with another adult saying that this person should inherit my house, visit me in hospital, have a say in my treatment when sick, share my mortgage etc, whats the fucking problem?

 

Fuck if I want to enter a contract whereby every third apple I buy shall be painted pink and shipped to my third class teacher, what's the fucking problem?!?!?

 

PS - I'm sure driving a car results in more deaths in the US each year than anal sex. Shall we legislate against it? And girl on girl sex is the least likely to land you with a disease, so is that a valid argument that straight sex is wrong? of course not.....

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

SF1 is on point on this issue. This country was founded on the belive of seperation of religon and state, and as time goes on, and I learn more and more about our "leaders" I get the feeling that, this idea has been long forgotten.

 

I still can't figure out how people are biased against other people, over religious views, and can still call other people ignorant.

 

Let them get married, it's their right. Just like everyone else has that right. Unforunatly nobody in this country in a position of power has the balls to say it now, why? Because when voting time comes around, the majority of the people that do participate (white, catholics) will just swing the other way.

 

One more thing, what will happen when a relative of your's regardless of how close they may be, is gay? Will you just shut them out,"disown" them, yea we're ignorant all right.

[Dawood]

Ok, once again, we are using the beliefs that this country was founded upon to determine whether or not something is right, these men who made up a legislation that served the needs of themselves have imposed this way of thinking upon too many of us, We have now taken our leaders to be our Lords because we allowed them to change God's laws.

 

Nobody has to agree with me, thats fine in my opinion, It does not lower God's status at all if every soul on this planet disbeleives in him.

 

All I am saying is that there is a criteria to go by, other than the things we come up with on our own, How would it be if God created us and placed us here with no direction at all , so that we would be forced to conjure up a system that would govern us and a set of morals to live by so that we dont' transgress first and formost GOD and secondly eachother. Whatever systems we develop are imperfect , but God's system is perfect, All we have to do is attach ourselves to that perfect system and live by that to the best of our ability. Unfortanately, most people want to do whatever their own personal experiences have led them to beleive is the right thing, which of course is subject to too many errors, because we are imperfect creations.

 

allowing same sex marriage is a symptom of the sickness in our societies. Thats exactly what it is. And the reality is that when you ask "why is it wrong "I say "because the CREATOR of the heavens and earth says it is wrong, and when I ask you how can you think it is ok?

you say...Well I think its ok because.....................

 

So as you see, Its YOU against THE CREATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND EARTH! You can't win.

[angelofdeath]

"This country was founded on the belive of seperation of religon and state"

 

oh sure. its in the constitution right? now go ahead, direct me to the early 1800's letter from jefferson to the danbury baptists. the one about the "wall." aside from the liberal alabama supreme court judge, an ex KKK member, who was chief justice of the court at the time of the separation of church and state case in 1947, it should be pointed out that, to state that our country was founded by secular men with secular principles, you either lying or ignorant.

 

libertarian charley reese points out..."There had been a great national Christian revival prior to the Revolution, and patriotic sermons were thundered from pulpits before and during the long struggle for independence. The first military success, the defeat of Gen. John Burgoyne in upstate New York, was accomplished by Kentucky riflemen and New England farmers and craftsmen wielding their own firearms"

 

he also quoted John Adams:

 

"July 2, when the resolution for independence was adopted by a committee, but he was talking about the independence of the United States.

 

And this is what he said:

 

"It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other from this time forward forever more."

 

further:

 

"And, yes, the overwhelming majority of the people in those 13 Colonies were Christians, and if not Christians, believers in God. So, to say that America began as a Christian nation is just as accurate as to say that Europe was once known as Christendom. Furthermore, they were mostly Englishmen and other Northern Europeans. There were African slaves, Native Americans and a smattering of Jews. Perhaps even a Muslim or two. The bulk of the population, however, was Christian and European. Our institutions and political philosophy came directly from England and Europe. "

[angelofdeath]

lets not forget our good old friend George Washington, after he was sworn in with his right hand raise, hand on the bible, and with a "so help me God." he addressed the nation. his first address included this paragraph.

 

""I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverence for the Christian religion and a thorough conviction that sound morals, religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness; and to that good Being who has blessed us by the gifts of civil and religious freedom, who watched over and prospered the labors of our fathers and has hitherto preserved to us institutions far exceeding in excellence those of any other people, let us unite in fervently commending every interest of our beloved country in all future time."

[angelofdeath]

screw it... for what its worth... not like it will change anyone's minds...............

 

George Washington,

 

"The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations." George Washington's letter of August 20, 1778 to Brig. General Thomas Nelson

 

"Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee." George Washington's prayer at Valley Forge

 

"No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency...We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven cannot be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which heaven itself has ordained." -- George Washington in his Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789

 

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States.." "...Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency" From President George Washington's Inaugural Address, April 30th, 1789, addressed to both Houses of Congress.

 

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion."--George Washington, ca. 1789, Maxims of Washington, ed. John F. Schroeder (Mt. Vernon: Mt. Vernon Ladies Association, 1942), p. 106.

 

"The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country." General George Washington, July 9, 1776

 

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports . . . And let us indulge with caution the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion . . . Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." From President George Washington's Farewell Address

 

Was George Washington a Christian? You will need to use your browser arrow to return to ESRI.

 

 

John Adams,

 

 

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: 'It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." President Adams, July 4, 1821

 

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were.... the general principles of Christianity." -- John Adams in letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813

 

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams from his Oct. 13, 1789 address to the military.

 

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there contained! Every member would be obliged in conscience to temperance, frugality and industry: to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men: and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God....What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams diary entry Feb. 22., 1756.

 

"The Christian religion is, above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to man." John Adams retorting to Thomas Paine in his diary, July 26, 1796.

 

"A patriot without religion, in my estimation, is as great a paradox as an honest man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations bind, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ...The Scriptures tell us righteousness exalteth a Nation." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776.

 

"...a true American Patriot must be a religious man...He who neglects his duty to his maker, may well be expected to be deficient and insincere in his duty towards the public." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776.

 

"The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but the God of Israel is He that giveth strength and power unto His people. Trust in Him at all times, ye people, pour out your hearts before Him; God is a refuge for us." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776.

 

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, they may change their rulers and the forms of government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty." John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, dated June 21, 1776.

 

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general principles of Christianity." John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Adams-Jefferson Letters,ed. Lester J. Cappon (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), vol 2, pp. 339-40.

 

 

 

Thomas Jefferson,

 

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." President Thomas Jefferson

 

"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." President Thomas Jefferson

 

"Of all systems of morality, ancient of modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus." Thomas Jefferson To William Canby, 1813

 

"I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by Himself, to be the most pure, benevolent and sublime which have ever been preached to man..." President Thomas Jefferson

 

“I have always said and always will say that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make better citizens, better fathers, better husbands... the Bible makes the best people in the world." President Thomas Jefferson

 

"My views- - - are the result of a lifetime of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference of all others—" Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush On April 21, 1803

 

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a cisciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator." Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his Bible.

 

 

 

 

James Madison,

 

"Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe. And to the same Divine Author of every good and perfect gift [James 1:17] we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land." James Madison

 

"While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us." James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance (Massachusetts: Isaiah Thomas, 1786). This can be found in numerous documentary histories and other resources.

The religion of divine origin was obviously Christianity, of which Madison said he was convinced.

 

"Waiving the rights of conscience, not included in the surrender implied by the social state, & more or less invaded by all Religious establishments, the simple question to be decided, is whether a support of the best & purest religion, the Christian religion itself ought not, so far at least as pecuniary means are involved, to be provided for by the Government, rather than be left to the voluntary provisions of those who profess it." James Madison response to an essay/sermon by Reverend Jasper Adams. Religion and Politics in the Early Republic: Jasper Adams and the Church-State Debate, Daniel L. Dreisbach, ed. (Kentucky: University Press of Kentucky, 1996), p. 117.

 

"Religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and, therefore, that all men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the magistrate, unless under color of religion any man disturb the peace, the happiness, or safety of society, and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other." James Madison, ca. 1789, cited in Gaillard Hunt, James Madison and Religious Liberty (Washington: American Historical Association, Government Printing Office, 1902), p. 166.

 

 

 

James Monroe,

 

"The liberty, prosperity, and the happiness of our country will always be the object of my most fervent prayers to the Supreme Author of All Good." March 5, 1821 in his Second Inaugural Address

 

 

 

John Quincy Adams,

 

"It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God." President John Quincy Adams

 

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were.... the general principles of Christianity." President John Quincy Adams

 

"My custom is to read four or five chapters of the Bible every morning immediately after rising... It seems to me the most suitable manner of beginning the day... It is an invaluable and inexhaustible mine of knowledge and virtue." President John Quincy Adams

 

 

 

Andrew Jackson,

 

"The Bible is the Rock on which this Republic rests." President Andrew Jackson

 

 

 

Abraham Lincoln,

 

America’s sixteenth president, who died on a Good Friday, was a devoted Bible reader but never joined a church. In a youth of near poverty, the Bible was one of the few books Lincoln owned. When he became president, its words and phrases found their way into many of his speeches.

 

Earlier, a broken engagement had caused him much pain, and Lincoln declared that his Bible was "the best cure for the blues." Lincoln also said that "this Great Book is the best gill God has given to man." When his wife, Mary, urged harsh measures for the defeated Confederacy, Lincoln quoted Jesus’ words to her, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

 

"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior (Jesus) of the world is communicated to us through this book.

 

“I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take all of this Book upon reason that you can, and the balance by faith, and you will live and die a better man."

 

Lincoln’s famous words, speaking of the slavery issue in America, were, "A house divided against itself cannot stand." He was quoting from Luke 11:17, in which Jesus’ enemies claimed Jesus could cast out demons because He was in league with the devil himself Jesus replied, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth" (KJV)

 

President Lincoln, a devoted Bible reader, claimed the Bible moved him to issue his Emancipation Proclamation, freeing America’s slaves, in 1863. He noted especially the words of Exodus 6:5: "I [God] have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage" (KJV).

 

Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address

"Fellow countrymen: At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office, there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first...The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself; and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured...

"Neither party expected for the war, the magnitude, or the duration, which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and as a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other...The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully...If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him?

 

Fondly do we hope - fervently do we pray - that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said 'The judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'

 

"With malice toward none; charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations." Immediately afterwards, Lincoln kissed the Bible, bowed, and retired from the platform. Abraham Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address, March 4th, 1865.

 

"Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance, are still competent to adjust, in the best way, all our present difficulty".

 

"The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next."

 

"The only assurance of our nation's safety is to lay our foundation in morality and religion."

 

 

 

Theodore Roosevelt,

 

“To every man who faces life with real desire to do his part in everything, I appeal for a study of the Bible." President Theodore Roosevelt

 

 

 

Woodrow Wilson,

 

"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Ladies and gentlemen, I have a very simple thing to ask of you. I as of every man and woman in this audience that from this night on they will realize that part of the destiny of America lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Scripture." Woodrow Wilson, 1911, pre-Presidential campaign speech.

 

“I have a very simple thing to ask of you. I ask every man and woman in this audience that from this day on they will realize that part of the destiny of America lies in their daily perusal of this great Book (the Bible)." President Woodrow Wilson

 

 

 

Herbert Hoover,

 

"The study of the Bible is a post-graduate course in the richest library of human experience." President Herbert Hoover

 

 

 

Harry Truman,

 

"The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state. President Harry S. Truman

[Dick Quickwood]

abort christ

[Dawood]

So you see, America was not founded on the seperation of church and state as the founding fathers of america have just clearly articulated.

 

Anyway, this is a perfect example of why I think demonocracy will eat itself. Because it is not a firmly rooted belief, It is a dog that will do any trick or jump through any hoop that it's master commands it to, even if the hoop has flames around it. And the master of the dog is our lowly ignoble desires and wants. So ask yourselves , Do you trust yourself enough to govern and guide yourself? I dont. If God left me to myself I would be destroyed.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by ARCEL@Jul 19 2005, 02:06 AM

abort christ

Quoted post

 

Arcel Is GAY !

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

He is talking about specific events, just like a sports player does after he wins a game/championship's or as most people do after they receive awards, etc and etc.

 

What i'm saying is, you shouldn't make political decisions that effect our nation as a whole, based on your religious belives, not only is that ignorant, but what about the rest of the population that disagree's with your god? Or, doesn't even one think exists at all.

 

Although I'm against religion, I understand and except other people's belief's, so the fact that government officals thank god, for fortunate events, say to pray for people when they are in crisis, to me it is still unacceptable to decided on the way our country is run, on your beliefs alone.

[Guest KING BLING]

Some biblical words of wisdom that I feel we must folloow through on at once, being as this is a Christian country...

 

 

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

[Guest KING BLING]

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 

Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. (Colossians 3:18 NAB)

 

Slaves, obey your human masters in everything, not only when being watched, as currying favor, but in simplicity of heart, fearing the Lord. (Colossians 3:22 NAB)

 

No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord. (Deuteronomy 23:2 NAB)

 

"The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 13:16 NLT)

 

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. (1 Corinthians 11:14-15 NAS)

[Guest KING BLING]

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)

 

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."

..........Exodus 21:20

 

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

..........Romans 13:1

[angelofdeath]

thanks for the posts on old testament law. i've been through them many times. once again... "our country was not founded by christian men, they were secularists, and wanted a secular humanist country, and separation of church and state is in the constitution."

good day.

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

With the exception of Romans, all those are Old Testament verses. Christians don't necessarily adhere to those laws.

[Guest KING BLING]

Originally posted by El Mamerro@Jul 19 2005, 03:35 AM

With the exception of Romans, all those are Old Testament verses. Christians don't necessarily adhere to those laws.

Quoted post

 

 

So I knew that would come up ahead of time and I'm glad someone mentioned it quickly. What I gather from the two responces now is that the Old Testament, though in the bible and the relgious source of Chrsitianity, is not AS relevant as what came after it.

 

 

So judges interpretting laws <not neccesarily your opinion Mammero, but you offered it and not much else> are in the wrong, but disregarding chunks of Gods book is okay?

 

You want constitutional purity? Have it. You beleive Christianity should rule America or atleast the bedoorm, don't pick out the parts you like - apply them all from slave girls to stonings. Unless of course you want to revise the bible...

 

I'll speak on this more when I'm less tired...

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by KING BLING+Jul 19 2005, 06:48 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KING BLING - Jul 19 2005, 06:48 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>So I knew that would come up ahead of time and I'm glad someone mentioned it quickly. What I gather from the two responces now is that the Old Testament, though in the bible and the relgious source of Chrsitianity, is not AS relevant as what came after it.

 

Quoted post

[/b]

 

That is correct. The teachings of Christ and the New Testament, according to Christianity, overrule the laws of the Old Testament. It is still included in the Bible because of the wealth of history, prophecy, and general wisdom it offers, not to mention the context it provides for the NT's significance.

 

 

<!--QuoteBegin-KING BLING@Jul 19 2005, 06:48 AM

So judges interpretting laws <not neccesarily your opinion Mammero, but you offered it and not much else> are in the wrong, but disregarding chunks of Gods book is okay?

 

You want constitutional purity? Have it. You beleive Christianity should rule America or atleast the bedoorm, don't pick out the parts you like - apply them all from slave girls to stonings. Unless of course you want to revise the bible...

 

Quoted post

 

I don't think our laws should have anything to do with the Bible, but unfortunately they were apparently created with it in mind. This is probably because regardless of your position on it, the Bible (nonexclusively) DOES include a bunch of general guidelines that make logical sense to apply to government and lawmaking (do not kill, do not steal, etc... summarized by Jesus as "Do unto others..."). People get caught up in silly details and think that because some of the ways we govern are derived from and parallel with Bible teachings, then the WHOLE thing should be like what the Bible says, especially from a moral standpoint. I think this is ridiculous. Take from the Bible (and whatever other source offers, Holy or not) what makes sense for government, discard anything else. Prohibiting gay marriage does not make sense for our society, nor does it help it advance. It creates resentment and lack of agreement, and is an unwelcome distraction from more important issues on governance. Get rid of it. Moral laws and values should be excercised on a personal scale.

[Dawood]

Al-Baqarah - 2:79

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby. (Al-Baqarah 2:79)

 

Al-Ma'idah - 5:48

And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allâh has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allâh; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ. (Al-Ma'idah 5:48)

 

Al-Ma'idah - 5:49

And so judge (you O Muhammad SAW) between them by what Allâh has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad SAW) far away from some of that which Allâh has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allâh's Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Fâsiqûn (rebellious and disobedient to Allâh). (Al-Ma'idah 5:49)

 

Ra'd - 13:37

And thus have We sent it (the Qur'ân) down to be a judgement of authority in Arabic. Were you (O Muhammad SAW) to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which has come to you, then you will not have any Walî (protector) or defender against Allâh. (Ra'd 13:37)

 

-The Quran

 

And the best speech is the speech of Allah

[Guest KING BLING]

Originally posted by El Mamerro@Jul 19 2005, 04:26 AM

 

That is correct. The teachings of Christ and the New Testament, according to Christianity, overrule the laws of the Old Testament. It is still included in the Bible because of the wealth of history, prophecy, and general wisdom it offers, not to mention the context it provides for the NT's significance.

 

Quoted post

 

BUTTTT

 

...in both the new and old testament slavery is permitted...

 

..and in the old testament is the 10 commandments from which our modern Christian soldiers derive there higher law as seen by building statues at court houses acorss the country...

 

...and you can say anything you want about Christians but my best friend is the closest thing to a Christian scholar I have ever met and what you claim is far from the general sentiment of Christians. In literature and in being around an array of Christians, including church sometimes and participating in a Christian message board, I can firmly say the old Testament is alive and well. Yes, the old testament is not the primary focus but don't deceive yourself about what people prioritize. The reason evolution and the scientific theory of life developing is attacked by Christians is because it contradicts creationism as it is written the old testament.

 

I think you are either an incredibly passive person or try to hard to be impartial. While I agree with your overall stance, I think you dismiss this like it is simply a distraction rather than an attack on personal freedom by religion gone completely out of control. What if a law was passed that Peurto Ricans could no longer marry outside of there race? Would it simply "create resentment and lack of agreement, and is an unwelcome distraction from more important issues on governance."? Or would you feel that one of the most pivotal aspects of life and freedom, being love, was suddenly under attack?

 

Just saying...

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

I have never claimed that most Christians practice what they preach very well. That's all very good about your best friend. I studied Catholicisim for over 10 years under some of the most eminent authorities in PR, including comparative religions under the top religious anthropologist in the Caribbean. I know that's not much, and definutely doesn't make me a "scholar" but I think I got a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. Now I won't argue with you about Christians still adhering to teachings of the Old Testament; like I said, they're prone to picking and choosing, I'm not deceiving myself. But Jesus made it VERY clear that what he came to offer was to stand above it... but that doesn't mean the OT should be discarded. Without the OT, there would be no prophecies that would show why Jesus was the Messiah. Along the swath of believers, you have on one end those who firmly adhere to Old Testament rules (fundamentalists), and those who nearly completely disregard it (a lot of modern sects, who believe you only need to accept Jesus as your Saviour and everything's good).

 

You seem to be generalizing Christians in a similar way to how a lot of Americans and westerners do to Muslims. Because the words and actions of the more fundamental-leaning members (who often hold positions of authority) speak much louder and more forcefully over others, we want to assume that it is a general sentiment of the entire population of followers. We have discovered that this is not the case for Muslims. It is no different for Christians.

 

I don't think I'm being impartial, I have clearly stated my stance on this issue (I'm FOR gay marriage, in case it hasn't been very clear). Would I feel that one of the most pivotal aspects of life and freedom, being love, was suddenly under attack if a law was passed that Puerto Ricans could no longer marry outside of there race? Of course!! But what would this do in a larger, societal scale? Precisely: create resentment, disagreement, and distractions from more important issues on governance.

 

Asking this question is like when pro-death penalty people ask "Yeah, but what if it was YOUR SISTER that was murdered?" It's bringing a social issue into a personal scale, which can often make opinions wobble, and may swerve judgment towards a selfish realm not well suited to analyzing issues that affect society as a whole.

 

I don't think we're disagreeing on anything, I'm just prone to detaching myself from the personal repercussions of issues, focusing on a bigger picture than what happens to individuals. Usually things that are wrong for the individual end up being wrong for society as a whole. This is not to say I don't think about things on a personal scale at all, cause I do. I simply don't allow that to be the base of my opinions.

[Dawood]

QUOTE:El mamerro

(I'm FOR gay marriage, in case it hasn't been very clear)

 

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

(Leviticus 20:13 NAB) -the bible

 

QUOTE:El mamerro

(I studied Catholicisim for over 10 years under some of the most eminent authorities in PR)

 

 

(And remember) when Allâh took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it, but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And indeed worst is that which they bought. (Aali Imran 3:187)

 

 

And most of them follow nothing but conjecture. Certainly, conjecture can be of no avail against the truth. Surely, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do. (Yunus 10:36)

 

 

 

 

 

 

-the quran

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

^Leviticus is an Old Testament book. I've gone through this already.

 

Not sure if it's the awkward translation (the Bible also suffers from this, and causes, in my opinion, ambiguity that leads to misinterpretations), but I don't get what your Quran quotes mean as a response to what I wrote.

[-Rage-]

Ugh.

 

Now I see why I avoid the Crossfire threads.