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BobTheBuilder.

Illegal Immigrants

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Originally posted by mentor@Jun 11 2005, 02:34 PM

"this is the most rediculous post i have ever seen. trying to feed his family? i try to feed my family too. i do it legally. i dont enter other peoples countries illegally, over populate our schools, run our healthcare dry and drive down our wages. where does their money go? their home country. undocumented worker= no income taxes. under the table."

 

bruh.....if you didnt have sufficent living space, you would go across the border to find it....just because your ancesstors stole this land or came to this land that was stolen of their own free will or otherwise, it still doesnt mean this is our land...we cant be the only ones entitled to it....dont bitch about slavery when slavery is what gives you the benifits you share today....corporations can only afford to pay the decent living wage to you because it had free labor for so long....americans just act like we are entitled to some great life standard the rest of the world doesnt get.....like its our destiny.....like "freedom" and "democracy" brought us all the good things this country offers....no assholes.....slavery and genocide brought your kickbacks....thats what pays off your camero....your luxury home....your sneakers....doctors apointment....your ritzy dinner....recognize fools.....the powers that be know that we only want to be allowed to exist in such a way as we can have some luxuries and to be left alone....so they allow us to have "freedoms".....really were all just "free-range" human beings going about our daily routines without need to be horded over because if we step out of line, chances are weve allready broken a law and enforcement will soon take us down ,ie johnny law....wake up to the realities that all people deserve good things...not just americans....stop hideing behind youre ideological indiffrence

 

 

 

PrepH.jpg

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whats scary about the patriot act isnt what its done so far but what power it entitles to those with high ranking in our govt....its like cointelpro but worse...people accept it as something for the greater good but our govt has never been for the greater good....only for polorization of power...]the gathering and subdueing of the masses....in the early years of industry in this country, americans were sweatshop labor...they werent even being paid legal tender....they were given company coupons that they could use in the company store.....the work day was something like 16 hours....children worked....all under unsanitary ,cramped, uncomfortably harsh conditions and were fired or penalized by taking away those coupons...after years of abuse (and huge profits) people began to lash out and riot, protesting and unionizing....how did our govt react?....by sending in soldiers and union breakers to kill many of the protesters and arrest those who organized the people....this happened numerous times all over the country....like with the rockafellers coal mines....workers eventually decided to strike after being abused and starved.....they moved into the mountains after the rockafellers sent US marshalls to kick them off the rockafellers properties and confiscated goods which were also owned by the rockafellers....the rockafellers used their political power to convince the president to send in the national gaurd to shoot up the tents in the woods the coal miners and families had been living in...so they dug holes in the ground and covered them with sheets of steel to prevent being shot.....then the marshalls and national gaurd burned the tents only the families were inside still under the steel sheets....so they burned to death...this is the corporate legacy....these are the people who control every aspect of our lives....from the food we eat to the jobs we work to the things we find entertainment through....to the police, army, energy, space programs, education, media....everything....were taught to respect it.....fuck that....were so busy trying to prevent mexicans from stealing 'our' jobs we allow the inhereitrers of this horrific past to continue to destroy communities all over the world....complain about the mexicans taking your jobs all you want but its small potatoes....in my opinion we concern ourselves with the more direct and easily viewable effects of the problem and apply less focus to the cause

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since grand-daddy liberal himself FDR and the new deal, unions have turned to bullshit. they dont fight for workers rights, they fight for workers to make 35$ an hour and get more benefits than you can imagine while the workers sleep all day. they are in cahoots with CEO's now. they play politics. people who belong to unions dont have the concept of the dollar. i work on commission as a auto tech, i know what it takes to make a dollar. i know where a dollar comes from. union members and government/state/city workers do not have this concept. government workers get paid exuberent salaries and do very little because of tax dollars. if they collect 5 million in taxes that year, they better damn sure use all of that 5 million or the departments/jobs will be cut. so they have crews out doing bullshit like 5 guys out painting one fire hydrant, making 20.00$ for basically riding around all day bullshitting.

same with union workers. most union workers are most non work ethic driven people around. my cousin, works as a line man for the phone company. this is straight from the horses mouth... this is what they do for thier pay.

"we get a call on monday. we hurry up and get out and find the problem. sit on it till thursday or friday and just fuck around, order the parts, then come in on over time on saturday to fix it."

 

or

 

"you take off when your SICK!?! shit, i work when im sick, go in and sleep for a few hours, ride around a little bit, then i go out on my boat when i use a sick day."

then these same people bitching about sleeping all day making 35$ an hour, come in for car repairs, and scream bloody murder when they find out that it costs 75$ minimum check out on a computer diagnostic problem. or bitch when they run out of gas and come in to borrow a gas can which we dont have, but have them for sale up front for 4.95$. you would think that the guy would be happy that we even have a gas can for sale, but no he gets pissed at us.

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BBC

 

Migration is 'good for everybody'

 

Migrant workers send their earnings back home across the globe

Migrants can bring many benefits to both the countries they move to and the ones they leave behind, according to a major new study.

The International Organization for Migration looked at the costs, benefits and disadvantages of global migration.

 

It found that common concerns about the negative effects of migration on jobs and welfare costs are often unfounded.

 

The IOM says there up to 192 million migrants and many bring a wide range of economic and other benefits.

 

Filling spaces

 

"We are living in an increasingly globalised world that can no longer depend on domestic labour markets alone. This is a reality that has to be managed," said Brunson McKinley, head of the IOM.

 

"If managed properly, migration can bring more benefits than costs."

 

 

 

The IOM cites a British report showing that, between 1999 and 2000, migrants in the UK contributed $4bn (£2.1bn) more in taxes than they received in benefits.

 

And, rather from taking jobs from local workers, the report says that migrants tend to fill spaces at the poles of the labour market - working both in low-skilled, high-risk jobs and highly skilled, well-paid employment.

 

"There's very little evidence in many of the Western countries that are receiving migrants that migrants are substituting the local workforce," the report's editor, Irena Omelaniuk, added.

 

The IOM says that migrants make up less than 3% of the global population and that almost half of all migrants are women.

 

It says that although the number of migrants has risen, from 82m in 1970 to around 190m people today, some countries - including Asia and Africa - have seen their proportional share of migrants decline.

 

'Brain gain'

 

The most popular destination countries for migrants include the US - which alone is home to more than 20% of the world's migrants - and Russia, home to almost 8% of global migrants.

 

Migrants make a significant contribution to the economies of their home states, the report says, with returning cash flows sometimes exceeding official development aid.

 

Migrant workers sent back more than $100bn (£55bn) to their countries of origin in 2004 and the report estimates that more than double this figure may also be sent through informal channels.

 

Morocco, the report says, received $2.87bn (£1.57bn), or 8% of its GDP, from money sent home by migrant workers in 2002 and remittances sent to The Philippines accounted for almost 10% of its GDP.

 

The report says that, although many skilled workers abandon their home countries seeking higher pay abroad, many can be encouraged to return home bringing acquired skills and experience - a process of "brain gain".

 

"Trends suggest a greater movement towards circular migration, with substantial benefits to both home and host societies," the report says.

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Originally posted by angelofdeath@Jun 12 2005, 02:52 PM

since grand-daddy liberal himself FDR and the new deal, unions have turned to bullshit. they dont fight for workers rights, they fight for workers to make 35$ an hour and get more benefits than you can imagine while the workers sleep all day. they are in cahoots with CEO's now. they play politics. people who belong to unions dont have the concept of the dollar. i work on commission as a auto tech, i know what it takes to make a dollar. i know where a dollar comes from. union members and government/state/city workers do not have this concept. government workers get paid exuberent salaries and do very little because of tax dollars. if they collect 5 million in taxes that year, they better damn sure use all of that 5 million or the departments/jobs will be cut. so they have crews out doing bullshit like 5 guys out painting one fire hydrant, making 20.00$ for basically riding around all day bullshitting.

same with union workers. most union workers are most non work ethic driven people around. my cousin, works as a line man for the phone company. this is straight from the horses mouth... this is what they do for thier pay.

"we get a call on monday. we hurry up and get out and find the problem. sit on it till thursday or friday and just fuck around, order the parts, then come in on over time on saturday to fix it."

 

or

 

"you take off when your SICK!?! shit, i work when im sick, go in and sleep for a few hours, ride around a little bit, then i go out on my boat when i use a sick day."

then these same people bitching about sleeping all day making 35$ an hour, come in for car repairs, and scream bloody murder when they find out that it costs 75$ minimum check out on a computer diagnostic problem. or bitch when they run out of gas and come in to borrow a gas can which we dont have, but have them for sale up front for 4.95$. you would think that the guy would be happy that we even have a gas can for sale, but no he gets pissed at us.

 

WORD THE FUCK UP!!!

Unions are why it costs $2.00 to ride a fucking bus in my city while they're constantly cutting back service to the point where they're so fucking crowded that everyones standing all smushed up on eachother while others get passed up at the bus stop cause there aint no standing room left!!! And these fucking union fucks make $23.00 an hour and still have the BALLS to threaten to go on strike once a year if they don't get a raise resulting in either fare hikes or reduced services! :hatred: :hatred: :hatred: :hatred:

 

FUCK YOU TO ALL UNION FUCK WADS!!!! :hatred: :hatred: :hatred: :hatred:

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Sounds like you need to go to college and get yourself a decent job, Hoss. Sniveling and bitching about somebody else earning "big bucks for doing nothing" sounds like ENVY. Best get your head out of your ass and get to college. Nobody is responsible for your life but you. If Joe Union can make $23 a hour "doing nothing" that sounds like just the job for ya.

 

Illegal immigration is exactly that--illegal. We should be enforcing the law, and our borders should be sealed. I agree with angelofdeath, if a foreigner wants to immigrate to the U.S., GET IN LINE. Any Mexican caught here illegally should be imprisoned.

 

The problem is that the entire goddam world wants to work in the U.S. Mind you, they don't want to be Americans, they come here to "get rich" and then intend to return to wherever they came from to live like a king. I wouldn't even mind that, but what happens is that they wind up settling here and RE-CREATING THE SAME THIRD WORLD SHITHOLE WHERE THEY STARTED FROM. If I wanted to live in Mexico City, I would just move to Mexico City. I don't WANT to live in the Third World, that's why I live HERE.

 

Many of the illegal Mexican immifgrants with whom I have worked are very open about their intention to "take over" the southwestern sstates by simply filling them up with Mexican citizens. They have the right to vote in both countries, and their loyalty rests with Mexico. Their birth rates are several times those of Americans. The result should be obvious.

 

Why are we allowing these people to move here? If you have ever lived or travelled in Mexico, you know what I'm talking about. I have no desire to live in a Mexican culture, and I am against immigration of all sorts, but from the looks of things, the American people are so spineless that we are going to eventually just be another Third World shithole. Don't imagine that native-born Americans will be treated kindly when the immigrants finally take power, because believe me, you won't be. Miami is a good example. Miami welcomed the Cuban refugees with open arms. Now the Cubans run it, and nobody else need apply. The same thing will eventually be true of the border states, unless the U.S. government stops fucking around and closes the fucking borders.

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Atleast the US Deports Illegals , wheres Canada lets them apply for immigrant status. BS, If you go somewhere illegally and get caught you should get the boot right back where you came from.

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Arcel--

 

All along the U.S. border with Mexico there are "colonias" created when somebody buys some crap land and illegally subdivides it and sells it to Mexican/ Central American immigrants. These colonias frequently have no sewage lines or drain fields, and one well for thirty or forty houses, if that. In every American city in the southwest, we have huge barrios of immigrants who do not assimilate. They bring the culture and all of it's problems of poverty, gangs, drug smuggling, illegal alien smuggling and so forth. You don't need to actually go to Mexico to visit Mexico. You can just go down to the barrio.

 

Mexico is dumping it's problems into the U.S. Instead of changing Mexican society and improving it, they just come up here to live. Yes, of course Mexico has a shitload of problems, and I'm sure they can find ways to blame plenty of them on the U.S., but WE did not create the social inequities that plague Mexico, and as long as they can send their unemployable people up here to work and send billions back home, they intend to do just that.

 

I've got a better idea. Why don't they just encourage American companies to invest in Mexico, and KEEP THE ILLEGALS THERE? Mexico, for the most part, is a very wealthy country, compared to the rest of the Third World. They have Guatemalans sneaking into Mexico to look for work. And do you know how they deal with it? The MEXICAN ARMY, which is trying to seal Mexico's southern border, beats the ever-loving shit out of anybody they catch crossing illegally into Mexico, takes whatever money they have and dumps their bruised and beaten bodies back into Guatemala. They treat the Guatemalans like shit. They arrest any illegals they catch in Mexico, beat their asses senseless, throw them in their shithole jails, and then deport them without so much as a peso.

 

But on our border, the Mexican Army is showing the illegals the best routes north.

In my opinion, we need to seal our borders tighter than a frog's ass. To be in this country, you must have PERMISSION from our government. If you want a drastic contrast in attitudes, just drive into Mexico beyond the 25 mile limit without a Turista visa, and see what happens to you.

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Guest imported_Tesseract

Whoa, too much hate coming from a country that basically owes everything into immigration. Its your history guys and along with the good you also get the bad. I wont say i dont understand the problems or that you should put up with everything but if you're interested into america being so democratic and an example for everybody else you shouldnt even mention half the stuff you guys do in here.

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Tesseract--

 

No country on this earth allows free immigration across it's borders. The Europeans have been exceptionally open about allowing immigration from the Third World. Now they have huge ghettos of uneducated, poverty-stricken, pissed off, unassimilated people from mostly North African and Middle Eastern countries living within Europe. Boy, that was a great idea. And since these huge groups of Third World immigrants have a birth rate three or four times as great as the Europeans, what does that tell you about the future?

 

The United States is under NO OBLIGATION to allow free immigration to our country, and neither is any other country. Immigrants may move here ONLY WITH OUR PERMISSION. This country BELONGS TO US.

 

The world is filled with unpleasant realities. Plenty of people would love to live somewhere else. Personally, I'd love to live on Pitcairn Island, but you know what? The people of Pitcairn Island DO NOT ALLOW ANY IMMIGRATION except wives brought there by Pitcairn Islanders. Bummer for me. Smart for them, and if I had been born there, I would support the immigration ban to Paradise, just like they do.

 

To enter Mexico as a tourist, or to emigrate to Mexico, one must have visas, pay fees, pass health checks and so forth. You cannot bring your dog or other pets, unless they have been vaccinated and quarantined. You cannot bring firearms or ammunition. You cannot bring vehicles, unless you pay a fee, and you must take the vehicle with you when you leave. There are a great many laws about going to Mexico, and IF YOU ARE ARRESTED THERE WITHOUT A VISA YOU GO TO PRISON.

Nobody has a RIGHT to immigrate ANYWHERE. It is a PRIVELEGE, granted by the people who are citizens of that country. People who abuse that privelege are criminals and should be arrested, tried, and if convicted, imprisoned. Just like in Mexico and every other country of the world.

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Guest imported_Tesseract

Its true we have a huge problem with immigration. Germany is full of turks, italy and greece are flooded with people from the balcans and countries of the eastern block. There are many problems but at the same time these are people trying to make a living just like anybody else. Let me get this straight, lets not leave anyone come into our precious country to make a living but at the same time lets spend trillions into liberating countries thousands of miles away...yeah, that really makes sense.

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Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 11 2005, 05:30 PM

Sounds like you need to go to college and get yourself a decent job, Hoss. Sniveling and bitching about somebody else earning "big bucks for doing nothing" sounds like ENVY. Best get your head out of your ass and get to college. Nobody is responsible for your life but you. If Joe Union can make $23 a hour "doing nothing" that sounds like just the job for ya.

 

 

 

Kabar, I aint bitching about someone makeing $23.00 an hour, I'm bitching about the "public" transportation in my city costing $2.00 a ride and them constantly threatening to strike and leave the working class in my city with no means of getting to work if they don't get a raise every year, A raise at the cost of everyone in this city that rides the bus to work. A raise for someone that already makes $23.00 an hour!!!. What don't you understand about that? I've been through Texas and I know that public transportation in Austin cost $0.25 or $0.50 a ride And in San Antonio it cost $0.75 a ride. I don't know what it cost in Houston cause I never been there but I highly doubt it cost anywhere near $2.00 a ride and $0.60 a transfer. Not to mention that our shit see's a hell of a lot more vollume than yours therefore making a hell of alot more money than yours not to mention that Philly's probably smaller than Houston and if you work in Center City (down town) you can't drive to work unless you can aford to park in a garage everyday, therefore you are forced to take "public transportation".

What do you have to say now????

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I completely reject your accusation! I am not OLD. Maybe a little well-seasoned.

 

Guilty on "grumpy."

 

The jury is still out on "bigoted." One man's bigot is another man's cultural defender, after all.

 

Definately male, and past puberty, so I qualify on the "man" thing.

 

Oh, yeah---Metro bus and MetroRail costs a buck, and transfers are free. I think most of our Metro drivers are in a union, but I forget which one.

 

The main gripe I have with unions is that they are too "craft" or "trade" oriented. I believe in "industrial" unions---all the workers in an industry, regardless of trade, in the same union. For instance, all the guys that work for Metro, whether they are drivers, maintenance mechanics, electricians, computer operators or whatever, should all be in the same "Transportation Worker's Union." Just my .02 cents.

 

Supposedly the problem is not sky-high wages, but sky-high prices. Public utilities are always kind of a monkey wrench in the works, though, because they are supposedly owned by the government, but operated by some for-profit company that has it's hand in your pocket.

 

BTW nurses are making about $60,000 a year down here--around $30 an hour. Average RN wages where I work are around $25 an hour, we are working for "below parity."

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Kabar, Have you ever noticed that you frequently describe non-white people in derrogatory phrases?

 

 

 

Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 12 2005, 06:14 PM

Now they have huge ghettos of uneducated, poverty-stricken, pissed off, unassimilated people from mostly North African and Middle Eastern countries living within Europe.

 

 

You don't need to actually go to Mexico to visit Mexico. You can just go down to the barrio.

 

 

I agree wih you on a lot of not letting immagrants in for many reasons, although, America presents itself as "Land of the Opportunity" So If you talk the talk, then you gotta walk the walk....Personally, I like Mexicans, they , for the most part are Honest, Hardworking individuals from what I've seen. It seems to me like a certain faction of White Americans feel as though America belongs to them, and that all the Gooks, niggers , spics, wetbacks, and camel Jockeys are just screwing it all up for the Good ole boys!

I live in a southern state(not from the south), and I know the sentiment of whites toward "Non Whites" It's a different world in the South, Race wise , for sure, All I know is... America eats itself...

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Originally posted by Tesseract@Jul 12 2005, 08:09 AM

Whoa, too much hate coming from a country that basically owes everything into immigration.

 

the euro hit it right there.

 

everyone is the US is an 'illegal immigrant' if you consider STEALING LAND a crime.

Then again, those Bering Straight immigrants (thousands of years ago) probably

pushed some ancient culture off their land too. The problem isn't immigration,

it's that immigrants dont get the things their new country promises. Sorry, but the American Dream is dead.

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i'm pretty sure no one in this thread really wants to do any of the jobs that illegal immagrants take...

 

 

and the only reason westerners are all upset is cuz... we're mad that all the years it took us to brain wash and convert all these other cultures to take on our shit is starting to fall off.... and there bringing their shit back... and ignorant people are afraid to change with the time...... we forced them to be christians and to wear clothing like us... and didn't think that there would be a time that people would be like.... this shit is wack... i wanna get back to the way of my people!!!!

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Originally posted by Tesseract@Jul 12 2005, 07:09 AM

Whoa, too much hate coming from a country that basically owes everything into immigration. Its your history guys and along with the good you also get the bad. I wont say i dont understand the problems or that you should put up with everything but if you're interested into america being so democratic and an example for everybody else you shouldnt even mention half the stuff you guys do in here.

 

 

Yeah...uh...see, the thing is, my great-grand parents/grand parents got on a boat, and came here to Ellis Island to LEGALLY enter the country.

 

 

Theres nothing wrong with wanting to go somewhere to start a better life... But if youre going to "take the good with the bad" you need to man up and deal with entering the country the right way.

 

 

The whole problem is alot deeper (obviously...) than merely closing off our borders. It goes into the topics that everyone else has mentioned regarding taking the jobs no one here wants, corporations/business owners encouraging the illegal immigration for the sake of cheap labor, and numerous other culture related topics that are touch areas. And the vast majority of the Mexicans making their way here ARE, in reality, planning to work their asses off for 10 years while sleeping 10 to a small bedroom, and going back to Mexico once theyve saved up enough so that they can live like a king and never work again. Theyre very open about it. It is not a secret by any means.

 

 

Ideally, we could just deport all the illegals out of here. Encourage Mexico to get its act together. Look into getting people into doing these "undesireable" jobs (perhaps by eliminating OR ADJUSTING our welfare system somehow, in such a way to encourage individuals that are able to work, to want to go out and do work...?) and make legal immigration a viable and easier system for people to legally gain access to the country, all the while keeping numbers strictly regulated.

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The whole deal is a double edged sword... You take illegals out of the picture, who's going to work all the HUMONGOUS agri-businesses in the country? These people make shit money working all the farms that supply the country's food, they work all the slaughterhouses (which is another clusterfuck on its own) chopping up cows so I can get my 99 cent cheeseburger at wendy's, etc. If they're eliminated, we have to employ legal citizens... which brings us to the fact that no citizen in his right mind would do those jobs for the amount on money the illegals are getting paid. So the price of your food skyrockets, because nobody can afford to support themselves, no less a family on the pittance the illegals are paid... If you want the illegals out, be prepared to pay a hell of alot more for eveything. Unfortunatley, the way things are now, we rely on cheap exploitable labor. Employers (especially small business owners) would be CRUSHED if they had to pay normal wages. It's not right, but the illegals play to big a part in the system to just be pulled out... It would be like pulling the bottom can of soup out of that big pyramid in the grocery store.

 

Nowadays we vote with our dollars. Support businesses that don't hire illegals if you don't like it. There's plenty of places you can buy your food, etc. that don't use illegal labor (Trader Joe's is one as far as I know)... If you don't want businesses using illegal labor, don't buy their products. It's common sense. Big businesess dont pay attention to the shmuck with the protest sign, they listen to the people who buy their products...

 

LOL, I just went all hippie on you. BTW nice to meet you, this is like my 3rd post or something...

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