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BobTheBuilder.

Illegal Immigrants

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Who the fuck are these "minute men"?

Are they rednecks driving around shooting Mexicans crossing the border???

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^could be.

it's a project to monitor the US/mexico border, started by civilians who

may or may not hate mexicans..but are most def 'concerned'. they scammed their name from the old school minutemen. people like shwarzeneggarrrr

support them..that may tell you somethin' right there.

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well a little more searching and it appears people have jumped

on this video exchange as proof the guy is a racist...either he

wasn't thinking straight or whatever, still..after saying some

bullshit like that, can you blame people?

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ps-"it's a tactic of leftists to smear your opponent as racist"..

please..this is rooted in absolutely nothing but utter bullshit.

people of all political leanings have used this 'tactic', and most

definitely it's been a prominent undertone for some sectors of the right.

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a little more on gilchrist..

 

April 11, 2005 E-mail story Print Most E-Mailed

 

 

PROFILE | JAMES GILCHRIST

One Man's Convictions Launched a Border Crusade

 

 

By Jennifer Delson, Times Staff Writer

 

 

Amid the lush canyons in southern Orange County, a retired accountant living quietly on his wife's humble salary and Social Security disability benefits cooked up a plan that drew attention from two presidents and reporters around the globe last week..

 

Last fall, Vietnam veteran James Gilchrist, 56, was listening to George Putnam's talk show on KCAA-AM (1050). He often listens to conservative radio shows in his small home office in an Aliso Viejo planned community, where he proudly displays his Purple Heart and dog tags.

 

He heard a guest on the show, Chris Simcox, complain about lax border enforcement. His words resonated with Gilchrist, who long wondered why communities in Orange County teemed with people who don't speak English.

 

Gilchrist called Simcox, a veteran crusader against illegal immigrants at the Arizona border.

 

"Things came out that were in my head swimming around for years," Gilchrist said. "It was a culmination of fears building up."

 

Gilchrist vowed to get volunteers to guard a border he believed the federal government had neglected. He quickly found hundreds of supporters through the Internet, among them fellow veterans and retired U.S. Border Patrol agents.

 

And so the Minuteman Project was born. A combination of citizen posse and media attention-getter, Gilchrist's brainchild took shape April 1 on an unforgiving strip of Arizona desert, with nearly as many reporters as volunteers.

 

The Minutemen plan to stay through the month, alerting U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents when they spot people illegally crossing into the United States.

 

That Gilchrist and Simcox chose Arizona is no surprise. The Arizona border became more popular among immigrants and drug smugglers after barriers were improved at borders in Texas and California. Nearly half of the 1.1 million apprehensions of illegal immigrants last year were in southern Arizona, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

 

Renewed attention to illegal border crossings helped propel passage of Arizona's Proposition 200, which requires proof of immigration status to qualify for some state benefits, including general assistance, short-term crisis aid and child-care assistance. Voters approved the measure 56% to 44% in November.

 

The Minutemen, who arrived with guns, private planes and night-vision goggles, have promised a strict "no contact" rule in approaching immigrants. Their presence on a 23-mile strip in southeast Arizona nonetheless alarmed local and federal officials, Mexican authorities and immigrants' advocates. Days before the volunteers arrived, the Department of Homeland Security declared it would double air surveillance and transfer 534 agents to the area, a 20% increase in its force there. The aircraft and nearly half the new agents have already arrived, although Border Patrol officials say they were planned prior to the Minuteman action.

 

Mexican President Vicente Fox has increased troop strength along the border and asked the U.S. to protect border crossers from harm. President Bush, who has called for a temporary workers' visa program, called the group vigilantes.

 

For Gilchrist, who says he is haunted by the images of friends who died in combat more than 30 years ago, the campaign has become a new war.

 

Within arm's reach of his desk in his home office is a published book, the size of a telephone directory, listing all the U.S. service personnel killed in action. He highlighted in yellow the names of all Marines who served with him in Vietnam. Gilchrist said he was a corporal in charge of spotting enemy positions.

 

Many of his comrades died in an ambush south of Khe Sanh in 1968, he said. It is in large part because of this vivid memory that Gilchrist fights on.

 

Framed 5-by-7-inch photographs of six fallen comrades hang in an entryway between Gilchrist's garage and kitchen.

 

"I don't want this country to end up like they did, dead on that battlefield," said Gilchrist. "Too many immigrants will divide our country. We are not going to have a civil war now, but we could."

 

Gilchrist hails from a military family. He said his father served 27 years in the U.S. Navy, in combat areas during World War II and the Korean War and stateside during the Vietnam War. He retired in 1968. His mother helped train Navy fighter pilots during World War II.

 

Gilchrist, who enlisted, spent 13 months in Vietnam, where he was wounded in the face by gunfire. It changed his life. Years later, he said, a rupture in the dura, the material that covers the brain led to three brain surgeries between 1986 and 1990. Doctors assumed that the rupture was related to his wartime wounds, Gilchrist said.

 

Gilchrist worked for years as an accountant and closed his own practice in 1995. A native of Rhode Island, he has been married for 10 years; his wife has two adult children, one of whom married a Mexican immigrant.

 

Gilchrist made his home in Orange County, living in several cities before buying in Aliso Viejo nearly 10 years ago, before prices shot up, he explained. Free during the day, he spent months doing home renovations, including installing hardwood floors.

 

While he worked, he listened to talk radio. It stirred up his feelings about cities where he had lived, including Westminster, which now has a large Vietnamese community.

 

"We are becoming a country run by mob rule. Whoever moves in rules," Gilchrist said. "I'm worried about the illegal immigration. I can see our country splitting apart."

 

Immigrants' advocates argue that Gilchrist, Simcox and others tend to use hyperbole that cannot be supported by statistics. For example, the Minuteman Project website says "tens of millions" of illegal aliens are "invading" the country.

 

There are an estimated 8 million to 12 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S., according to the Department of Homeland Security. It is difficult to estimate how many cross each year, but authorities made 1.1 million apprehensions along the border last year.

 

Said Leo Chavez, anthropology professor at UC Irvine: "The issue of illegal immigration is political. All we need to do is allow more people to enter this country legally."

 

Local Arizona ranchers, meanwhile, remain leery of outsiders. But some said they appreciated the increased attention to the illegal immigrants crossing the land they own or lease from the federal government.

 

Ron Stone, a rancher in Douglas, Ariz., who brought a single-engine plane to help look for illegal immigrants, said Gilchrist "is getting people to pay attention to us. We need that."

 

Though prone to vitriolic language — "Illegal immigrants will destroy this country," he said during a recent interview — Gilchrist often softens his tone. "These people are coming here for work," he added after some reflection. "We need to ask why that is happening."

 

But his thoughts inevitably flow to Vietnam. "What … did all these people die for in World War II, Korea and Vietnam?" he asked. "It was not so we would turn into a country of mayhem."

 

*

 

(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)

 

Formative events

 

• About thirty years ago, James Gilchrist worked for 18 months as a newspaper reporter for the Providence Journal Bulletin in Rhode Island. He left journalism because, he said, it seemed unusually cutthroat.

 

• In the early 1980s, Gilchrist's car was struck by a car driven by two Latino men; he said he believes they were illegal immigrants because their car's plates did not match the vehicle they were issued to.

 

• On Sept. 18, 2001, Gilchrist wrote letters to senators, congressman and President Bush blaming them for the deaths that month at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon because they had failed to stop the terrorists before they acted.

 

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gi...ack=3&cset=true

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Ugh some of you are fucking idiots.

 

There is a differance between motive and the effect.The motive; Republicans are not against illeagal immigration because it dumps the wages or makes americans unemployed. Republicans are against it becuause it will make republicans a minority.

 

The effect thou is still the same, it dumps the wages for poorest of the poor, and it will make americans unemployed. It displaces the whole jobmarket, i mean why hire someone for minimum wage when you could get some one for half that?

 

If you belive in minimum wage or unions or some form of limited equality and right you should be against illegal immigration.

 

But if you belive in rich get richer cheap and poor getting fucked up the ass in an 3rd world kinda way, youre for it.

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And the funniest thing about all this isnt that it makes white guys unemployed, no its primarly blacks and american latinos.

 

The racism argument is the dumbest of them all..

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maybe this is a dumb question, but why are immigrants to blame

for cheap wages and everything else?

seems a bit lopsided to me.

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People who hire illegal immigrants should be fucking shot. But neither they or the illegals are the cause of the problem. The problem is places like mexico and other thirld world shitholes that are run buy selfserving corrupt elite assholes who dont care for their own people and the result is extreem poverty.

 

This makes it extremly tempting for poor people in mexico to go and canibalise poor americans wages.

 

In stead of fixing mexico, your turning america into mexico, with extreem poverty and in the long run an selfserving corrupt elite.

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I am a member of the working class, and as such, I have more in common with someone who has to work for a living who may be from mexico, china, or wherever than some guy who was lucky enough to be born into a propertied family.

 

I have more in common with an illegal immigrant who has come to this country to find work than I do with John Kerry or George Bush.

We both have to work to survive. That is the basis of my solidarity. Economic problems in other countries are not a result of corrupt government officials, but a result of imperialism and colonial exploitation.

You cant tell me that problems in the congo are created by corrupt government officials, because the people in the congo tried to make a revolution and were snuffed out by the Belgians backed by the United States and the Brittish.

When the racist army of South Africa invaded Angola, you know who drove them out and gave a stunning blow to the Apartheid regieme that was one of the desicive factors of why it is no longer there today?

The Cubans.

Hundreds of thousands of them. You know what the US had to say about the Cubans driving the racists from Angola? The presidential candidates, Regean and the other guy whom i cant remember at this moment compared it to Mussolini in Ethiopia or Hitler in Czecheslovakia. They were comparing the people that DROVE THE RACISTS OUT to these fascist regiemes.

Dont tell me that illegal immigration stems from fucked up governments in other countries. It stems from fucked up governments in the countries you and I live in.

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open borders all aorund!!!

 

protect staus quo at all costs.

 

racism is giving way to classism.

 

no one wants the poor to be a big group and start voting.

it's so convenient that our inner cities have turned to gang/drug hell

and our immigrants are poor and uneducated.

those in power are gonna have an easy time keeping shit the way it is.

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This is 2005. There are many extremists who want death to our nation. And they will, or have already used our borders to get here. Minutemen are the wrong choice of people for this job, it should be our military's responsibility. Bottom line we are the most vulnerable now more than ever with the majority of our troops overseas. Now is the Ideal time for our enemies to hit us hard. So for now and maybe a significant amount of time our borders should remain closed,but not by a bunch of trigger happy good ol boys.

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All of your arguments are retarded. The point is, we have 2 fucking borders, not just one... do you think terrorists are trying to sneak only through mexico? If you want to "militarize" the border with mexico, we might want to do it with canada first since there are only TWO DEPUTIES COVERING EVERY 20+ MILES OF BORDER. When was the last time you applied for a janitor position at Wal mart? Oh you didn't? I guess its time to take a trip to shut-the-fuck-up-sville.

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That's what I was trying to figure out that was bothering me about the minutemen. It's like privatizing a government function. That and they bogarted the name minutemen.

I said bogarted. wow.

 

*Oh yeah and the fact that white supremecists flock to shit like this.

But yeah symbols has a good point, classism is becoming more prominent than racism. Probably in part due to the fact that most everyone in the US has at least two ethnic heritages.

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this is a little off topic, but if you get the discovery times channel there is a program called "chasing el norte" that documents immigrants that hop freight trains from guatemala to the US. worth watching in my opinion.

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oddly i just saw a snipet of a program on the country music channel about the minute men.

villian you are right, they are privitizing a government function. for one reason, our government WILL NOT SECURE OUT BORDERS. (for anyone who is into conspiracy theories, which im not, you can surely come up with some on this topic)let me break it down:

 

the southern mexican border is closed the fuck down. its northern border (bordering the US) is wide the fuck open.

 

the mexican army has been seen and photo's exist of them aiding and encouraging illegal entry into the US and they have showed them the best immigration routes.

 

our northern border as said before, is virtually wide open.

 

President Fox has said he sees "america and mexico becoming a fully integrated society"

 

not only is it "mexicans" coming over the southern border, it is people from the middle east, czechnians(sp?), turkish, etc etc, read some statistics.

 

"muslims" are coming over the border from vancouver.

 

Article IV section 4 of our constitution explicitly gives power to the federal government to protect its states against invasion.

 

congress approves 4000 new border agents, bush gives us 400.

 

we have mexican radicals claiming they still own what is now texas and the US southwest. they are smearing racial slurs at us ("fuck you gringos," "i wish they would of blew up that jew hell hole new york all the way..." actual racist slurs not the loose lefty definition of racist)

 

after the minutemen ended their project in may, the border guard was ORDERED TO STAND DOWN. they didnt want any arrests to make it seem like the border which had been SHUT DOWN, was not a problem. they didnt want the Minutemen to seem as though they have done good.

 

further:

 

"Costs

 

The net cost of immigration is $70 billion a year.

 

Mexican nationals sent $10.5 billion in remittances to Mexico in 2002. Remittances to Mexico are the second-highest source of income, exceeding tourism, and lagging behind only oil revenues.

 

The 1986 amnesty program cost $78 Billion to American citizens in services and benefits, or about $26,000 per legalized immigrant.

 

Medical Care for illegal aliens, required under the “emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act,” costs American taxpayers $3.7 billion in Medicare and Medicaid funds.

 

Immigration accounts for most of the increase in public school enrollment in the past 20 years.

 

Mexico is the 10th richest country in the world and has the fourth-highest number of billionaires. It is the fifth-leading exporter of oil in the world and has twice the oil reserves of the United States.

Crime

 

More than 20 percent of the inmates in federal prisons in the U.S. are illegal aliens, and the criminal-alien prison population cost taxpayers about $1 billion annually.

 

Mexican Interior Secretary Santiago Creel, who has been agitating for the United States to grant amnesty to the Mexican illegal aliens, said on July 28, 2003, that his country will never help the Unied States secure its southern border.

 

Two-thirds of the cocaine coming into the United States comes via the U.S.-Mexico border, along with 50 percent of all the heroin in this country and 95 percent of the marijuana.

 

Twenty cities, including Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Chicago, Miami, Denver, Seattle and Portland, Maine have adopted “sanctuary laws” banning police from asking people about their immigration status.

Source: Justice, Labor, Health and Human Services Records and the U.S. Census Bureau - Compiled by The Washington Times "

 

 

why anyone would want open borders during this "war on terror" is beyond me. that is why it is totally hypocritical of bush to be fighting wars of inverventionism, yet cant protect our borders. maybe when someone walks on in the US and plants a bomb and blows up some city they will wake up.

 

why doesnt Bush want to close the borders? he doesnt want to be called "racist." he and the congressional republicans, doesnt want to lose ANY of the mexican/latino vote. the democrats again dont want to be called racist and wouldnt think of securing our borders. most republicans fear the "r" word as well.

the only people trying to combat the illegal invasion are a few republicans.

 

as for being racist, you will perhaps always have a few apples. you would be suprised to read the actual members of the project consisted of over 15 races and nationalities, including legal mexicans.

 

its like this... close our borders. reform immigration laws, make it easier for people to come in, i dunno, but we need border security. our government can fund bullshit government jobs and departments, most of which arent needed, it can fund our retirements, fund the welfare state, fund all these "socialist" institutions, yet cant provide a basic constitutional guarantee.

 

the minuteman project has proven, that when the government cant do something, the people will do it. it is what this country was founded on. we were founded on do it yourself ethics. its "we the people" not "we the government" remember? the people are the original homeland security. at the time of the constitution the militia consisted of every able bodied man 18-45, at the time of the revolution it was every able bodied man 18-60. and they were required to be armed. the minuteman project has proven that with more man power the border patrol can perform thier job like it should be. it is a wake up call to congress to say "WE WANT SECURE BORDERS." perhaps they will fund more agents, or better yet, put our national guard, reserves, military on the border. the key to being a soveriegn nation is secure borders.

 

what other nations of our status can you just walk into? we protect the border between north and south korea better than we do our own.

 

 

from teamamericapac.org:

 

"10. It's time to raise the American standard of living.

The real minimum wage has been declining for over a decade. Some advocate raising the minimum wage--but this, of course, would raise the price of unskilled labor above its free-market value. Mass unemployment would result.

 

Why has the market value of unskilled labor declined? For the same reason that all prices move: supply and demand. It's hard to change the demand side of the equation: you can't make anyone "need" an unskilled worker who doesn't need one already. For years, however, we have been artificially modifying the supply side by quietly tolerating a massive influx of unskilled workers across our borders. We can reverse the trend by enforcing immigration laws. We won't need to raise the minimum wage. It will raise itself. Millions of Americans will be lifted out of poverty, and millions more from the lower middle class to prosperity.

9. We can immediately create millions of new jobs.

Conservative estimates place the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. at 10,000,000. That's ten million. Taking into account minor children and the aged, that's still millions of people who are flooding our labor force. Remove them, and opportunities will abound for Americans.

 

There's an old canard that says that illegals "take the jobs Americans don't want." This is a fallacy! There's no job an American can't or won't do for a living wage. It is a cruel joke on the American worker to allow illegals to depress wages for many jobs below poverty level, and then to mock Americans for being reluctant to participate in the poverty.

8. Breaking the law is crime. Lawbreakers are criminals.

Out of deference to the PC crowd, many like to use the term "undocumented workers"--as if illegals were merely missing a piece of bureaucratic paperwork. By the same logic, we can call a car thief an "undocumented driver."

 

Our immigration laws exist for good reasons: to protect our safety, our national sovereignty, our standard of living, our health, and our culture. Those who break them may "want a better life for themselves," but then again, so do all who enrich themselves by disregarding the law.

 

Besides, many people who wish to immigrate honestly are waiting patiently. Granting privileges like driver's licenses and social security cards to illegals is a slap in the face to law-abiding citizens and immigrants alike. It's like opening an express window to give titles and owner's cards to car thieves, while making legitimate owners stand in line!

7. Open borders threaten our safety.

Since the attacks of September 11, 2001, two things have become clear. First, we have enemies, and they are vicious and without conscience. Second, our enemies obviously believe that an attack from within is more feasible than an attack from without.

 

Even before the horrid events of September 11, our immigration laws had the primary purpose of protecting us. The use of visas and passports allows our government to monitor, and to control, who enters our country, and why.

 

Certainly, few illegal aliens are terrorists. But it only takes one! More importantly, the creeping ideology of open borders--the (usually unspoken) belief that treating foreigners who enter our country differently than we treat our own citizens is somehow "discriminatory" or "racist"--is creating a terrible dilemma: Either we cease to monitor the aliens (and open ourselves up for even worse attacks), or we create the "equality" of the police state by casting aside constitutional protections for citizens and monitoring everyone.

 

The more resolutely we protect our borders against threats from without, the safer, and freer, we can live within them.

6. We're a nation of 300 million; the Third World population is in the billions. Do the math.

Our country seems large, but its population is tiny compared to that of the Third World. China and India alone have seven times our population.

 

For whatever reasons, our society has succeeded in creating immense wealth where many others have created only poverty. An American welfare recipient would still be "rich" by the standards of most of the world.

 

One can't blame the citizens of countries who produce much less wealth per capita than we for wanting to reap the benefits our forefathers have sown for us. But if we open the borders, our island of productivity and prosperity will soon disappear beneath a flood of Third World squalor.

5. American culture is worth preserving.

Culture is more than operas and Shakespearian plays--it's the sum total of the customs, beliefs, artistic creations, attitudes, goals, and norms that make a society what it is. It is passed down, as a treasure, from grandparent to parent to child. In other words, culture is what gives us our identity.

 

Some advocate "multiculturalism"--creating a society in which multiple cultures exist side by side, and believe that "diversity"--having as many cultures as possible, with none dominant--is desirable.

 

The majority of the media elite believes that we need more multiculturalism and diversity; the majority of the population doesn't. Regardless of how anyone stands on this issue, the fact is that our society is already multicultural and diverse. Anyone who wishes to enjoy, and celebrate, the many cultures now coexisting in America need only visit any American city.

 

By contrast, genuine American culture--the Founding Fathers, the story of the pioneers and the winning of the west, the Pledge of Allegiance, Columbus Day, the Bill of Rights--is under constant assault. Some of our country's detractors vilify all that is traditionally American, while others would reduce our traditions to one more example of quaint folklore beside those of other nations. Russian culture can be found in Russia, Mexican culture in Mexico, multiculturalism in any major city... but where can one find American culture? Only in a place where Americans treasure it, and lovingly transmit it from generation to generation. Immigration laws should ensure that those who seek to live permanently on American territory be willing to adopt and preserve its culture. And they are useless unless they are enforced.

4. It's not your father's immigration.

Previous generations romanticized immigration. The images are still with us: Starry-eyed Irish, Italian, Jewish, and Polish arrivees toting their bags and trunks onto shore at Ellis Island... The tablet at the base of the Statue of Liberty exhorting other nations to "Give me your tired, your poor..." The native-born American learning to love pizza and bagels.

 

That was then. This is now.

 

Yes, there are still many people in foreign lands who harbor the "American dream," and who seek to come here to realize it.

 

Millions of illegal aliens, however, have attitudes and motives very different from those of the immigrants in the fading black-and-white photos of yesteryear. It's not fashionable to speak the truth about this group. But the truth must be spoken.

 

What makes this new breed of "immigrants" different? To begin with, they're not "immigrating" at all--they're sneaking in. They don't have an "American dream" of building this country; rather, though still loyal to their home nations, they want to exploit ours economically. Many even dream of taking over regions of our country, and displacing us. There's already a word for this goal: reconquista. If the members of this group don't intend to return home, yet have no loyalty to America, what should we call them? Certainly not "immigrants."

 

Colonists is perhaps a better term. Today's colonists, like those of the past, want to build enclaves on American soil from which they can expand their own wealth and power, and that of their homeland, while drawing on the resources that were created by the native population. How can we welcome legitimate immigrants while keeping out colonists? By knowing who is coming here, and why, and only admitting those whose presence is in our country's best interests. In other words, by enforcing immigration laws.

3. It's an issue we can all come together on.

Conservatives, traditionally, aim to preserve the valuable legacy of the past, and to protect freedom by limiting the power of government. Liberals seek to provide all citizens, even the most disadvantaged, with the opportunity to realize their full potential. Both have worthy goals, but often squabble over how to realize them.

 

Removing illegal aliens can give us the best of both worlds. We can preserve our traditional culture. And without resorting to costly and intrusive government programs, we can give our poor a genuine "hand up": as the glut of cheap labor dries up, those at the bottom rung of the economic ladder will suddenly find themselves able to climb higher without ruinous competition.

 

People of good will on the left and the right can only smile approvingly as the free market (hallowed by conservatives) provides our unskilled and uneducated with a decent wage, and with a job market that welcomes instead of marginalizes them (the well-meaning goal of liberal government programs).

 

We can "live better than we did four years ago" and have a rebirth of national pride, as President Reagan wanted for us. And we can have a "New Deal" for our poor, a society where no American is left out, which were the ideals of President Roosevelt.

 

At last, we can come together. Maybe that's what patriotism is all about.

2. We either face tough issues now, or tougher ones later.

Immigration issues are complex. We need a national debate--which, judging by the 2004 primary and general Presidential campaigns, isn't happening.

 

Most Americans, when confronted with the facts, will probably continue to want what they want now: strict enforcement of our immigration laws.

 

It won't be easy. We'll have to find workable ways to deport illegal aliens without creating unnecessary hardships for those who have broken our immigration laws, and without creating severe dislocations for the unscrupulous employers who have benefited from their presence. And, of course, we'll have to counter, with quiet reason, the voices of those who scream "discrimination" or "racism."

 

Some cringe at the challenges that await us.

 

These challenges, however, pale in comparison to those that future generations will face if we fail to act. Imagine an overcrowded, impoverished America with shrinking wages and expanding burdens on the social service system. Imagine an America where millions of Americans have been driven out of their neighborhoods by throngs of foreign colonists who neither speak our language nor understand the culture that created American prosperity--but who deeply resent the poverty that inevitably results from their own unwillingness, or inabilty, to live as true Americans.

 

Will Americans be forced to tax away their own shriveling wealth, and to transfer it to the aliens within our borders, if they wish to appease the colonists' anger? Will the shrinking American middle class merge with the alien underclass to form a new "peasant culture" while a tiny American elite trembles behind the walls of heavily policed gated communities? Or will full-scale cultural and racial war break out? None of these possibilities is appealing. Nonetheless, a society is a reflection of the population that comprises it. If we, as an advanced society with a low birthrate, continue to import a Third World population with a high birthrate, we will become a Third World society, and will face the problems which other Third World societies face as well.

 

Isn't it better to face the issue of illegal immigration now--and to do something about it?

... and the number one reason is:

1. We owe it to our kids and grandkids.

Our children and grandchildren will marvel at the digitized archives of the TV shows of the 1950s and 1960s. They'll see a prosperous, free, united America-- the envy of the world, a place anyone would be happy and proud to call home. This, they'll realize, was the legacy our grandparents and parents left us, the American citizens of the early 21st century.

 

How will the America we leave to our children stack up against the America our parents left to us? What will future generations think of us? Will we be known as the preservers and expanders of the beautiful legacy, or as its destroyers? By our actions or inactions, we're deciding which it will be. Right now. "

 

and yes i can cite you actual sources for every claim i made.

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from ron paul a couple years ago...

 

Border Tragedy Reveals Deeper Problems

We all feel tremendous sympathy for the men who lost their lives last week locked in a truck-trailer outside of Victoria, Texas, in the congressional district I represent. Regardless of the circumstances of their entry into the United States, it is a terrible tragedy for their families, and a horrific example of what can happen when human life is considered cheap.

 

This event also reminds us of the serious immigration and border control problems that remain to be addressed.

 

Why is it that people will take incredible risks to come to this country? Fundamentally, it is because they seek a better, more prosperous life. Such a life is possible only in a nation of laws, where there is a reasonable assumption that the law will be applied equally to all. This is why, regardless of one’s position on immigration, existing immigration laws must be better enforced. Incidents like this, and the thousands of illegal border crossings that take place every day, demonstrate that authorities are not enforcing the law effectively.

 

This tragedy also reminds us of the lengths to which some will go to gain entry into the United States. Even as the government takes more and more of our income and curtails our liberties, incidents like this serve as a poignant reminder of the great freedoms and prosperity we enjoy in the United States. That dozens of people would cram themselves into a trailer like cattle, just for the opportunity to come to the United States, says a great deal about our relatively free-market system. It should also remind us of just how important it is to do everything we can to preserve our liberty and constitutional form of government.

 

This tragedy highlights something more chilling, however: our continued vulnerability to terrorist attacks. More than four million trucks enter the United States through Mexico each year; border authorities inspect less than one percent. Indeed, our borders have become more porous than ever, as federal authorities in some cases simply will not enforce the laws that Congress has passed.

 

Suppose that rather than human cargo, the truck was carrying a chemical or nuclear weapon. Suppose 100 trucks loaded with nuclear weapons crossed the Mexican border driven by Al-Qaeda operatives. Some 99 would get through. Who believes terrorists would have much trouble getting into Mexico?

 

Yet while we maintain more than 200,000 US troops in more than 120 countries- many of whom are involved in guarding foreign borders- our own border patrol stands unprepared to prevent terrorists from bringing terrible weapons into our country. Surely those soldiers and resources would be better used protecting our own shores. The recent bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed several Americans, indicates that Al-Qaeda is still alive and well. We therefore ignore our unguarded borders at our own peril.

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truthfully i think people should be able to walk the earth and work and live wherever they want. maybe without nation pride we can stop fighting eachother. but just to play devils advocate, im just curious why people think its ok to enter another country illegally and work, live etc, without any regard for laws. it shows disrespect and it implies that illegals are just oppourtunists.

 

i wanted to live in japan. i did research on what qualifies a visa. americans are required to have a university diploma in order to recieve a 3 year visa and renew it by having a fulltime job sponsor it or get married and recieve a 1 year visa. i graduated, moved to japan, got a job, got a visa, and continue to renew it every 3 years through a company sponsor. if i dont qualify i believe i should get the fuck out of japan. plain and simple. why the hell is it ok for mexicans to crawl through sewer pipes into the US and come bus tables? not to mention steal waiters tips.

 

sorry for that last comment. not all mexicans are theives just the ones i worked with at 5 different restaurants throughout my 7 years of waitering.

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It's only a matter of time before these minutemen assholes kill like a family or something.

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Originally posted by ODS-1@May 31 2005, 10:41 AM

It's only a matter of time before these minutemen assholes kill like a family or something.

 

:rolleyes:

 

learn something before you start showing your ignorance. "they like all carry guns and threaten people, dUdE!!!! GUNS ARE BAD!!!!!!!!!! I heard they killed 300 some immigrants just minding thier own business!!!! DUUDEEE"

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1)

I work in a industry that hires immigrants, on goverment work visa. In this industy, those companys that use the work visa get a tax break at the end of the year.

Not only do they get a tax break, that only have to pay the immigrants minimal wage

By paying the immigrants mininal wages, they save a few 1000 dollars a year, cause they dont have to pay a american 5 dollars more above the minimal wages.

Now, some of you may think , hey americans shouldn't be so greedy ( blah blah blah). Now that could be true if in fact the cost of living in the us wasn't so high. And How many of us on 12oz. actully would work a job or could afford to work for 6.50 a hour, 40 hours a week

I could care less if illegal or not and wanted to work. By my point is, When we hire immigrants , 75% of the time they are sending the money back out of the country, insted of spending it here..

 

2) Most of america isn't educated college grads with jobs that have them wearing suits making 50,000 a year. There down and dirty laborers making 18,000 a year,with wifre and kids to support. Those down and drity laborers are losing there job to companys that would love to hire anybody that would work for mininal wage. $$$$$$$$

 

3) That last company I worked for had hired 5 south Africans, they all shared the cost of living, by spliting a 2bedroom apt and a ford escort to take them to work. Each one of them was only getting the minimal wages , were as i was getting a few dollars more, for the same job. Needless to say, I was let go cause they couldn't aford to me., but the company went and brought over two more south Africans, after me. Ironic....

 

4) Its not about closing the borders its about not outsourcing Us jobs to other country and to those that are not U.S. CITIZENS. that laws in place work fine if they are enforced. NO S.S # no cash for you.

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I read something about immagrants paying taxes as well, which is totally false. I worked in an aluminum foundry with a bunch of the and their paychecks were 100% untaxed. That is my only problem, with the issue.

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