lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread mauler: i'm not trying to be a sexist. it seems like that is tossed around alot these days. being sexist. what is being sexist? seriously? i'm not trying to say women are incapable. what i am saying is that there seems to be this independent woman type thing going on where they feel they don't need men any longer. i just heard this author a month or so ago. she wrote a book called "who needs men?". i think that is what i'm trying to point out. idealisms like that. i think with women and men it's a complimentary thing. where you compliment everything about each other with the differences of the sexes. i just saw the other thread where dailycrunch said he thinks i am threatened by women. no way, man. i'm not threatened by women at all. what i am threatened by is the dumbing down of society, the loss of roles in sexes (the required roles for society to survive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R@ndomH3ro Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Hey casek...you want to get together and drink beer and hunt small animals? Then we can pull out our chest hair. That is pretty manly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauler5150 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread I agree with you there. I wasn't accusing you of being sexist, just how the majority could perceive it. In that context I think you have a valid point, and I agree that the sexes are meant to compliment each other. In other news, a girl I was talking to last night sent me something she wrote entitled 'Is this generation lost' which spurned my head into action on this topic as what she wrote made alot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauler5150 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Hey casek...you want to get together and drink beer and hunt small animals? Then we can pull out are chest hair. That is pretty manly. Just make sure you don't shoot any bears out of trees!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Hey casek...you want to get together and drink beer and hunt small animals? Then we can pull out our chest hair. That is pretty manly. nah, i let the small animals be. but i definitely wanna drink some beers and shoot the shit. might try to head to tampa soon to visit some buddies. wanna let me play on the nippernet? i'll come down if you say i can. but only if i get unrestricted access to the nippernet. oh, and i get to print out atleast five docs. ask your supervisors if that's cool. i'm sure they will agree. /not selling to ruskies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread i think with women and men it's a complimentary thing. where you compliment everything about each other with the differences of the sexes. i dont get what youre saying. a woman can compliment a man without being a pushover. personally i like girls that will rip into someone, can go out and make more money than i can, etc. etc....essentially be independent. personally im trying to spend my life with someone who is on my level....not a fucking leech who needs me to help her out with every problem she encounters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some1 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread everyone was begging for teh bewbs and just talking. it had gotten boring anyway... can i see yorui boob? just juan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread i dont get what youre saying. a woman can compliment a man without being a pushover. personally i like girls that will rip into someone, can go out and make more money than i can, etc. etc....essentially be independent. personally im trying to spend my life with someone who is on my level....not a fucking leech who needs me to help her out with every problem she encounters. no, not like that boogie hands. i don't think a woman should be barefoot and pregnant, standing in the kitchen ready to serve a man dinner when he gets home from work. and i do appreciate an intelligent woman who is comfortable in her own skin. i just think that women shouldn't feel uncomfortable being supported by a man who cares for her. the popular belief in todays america is that women should be headstrong and independent. women in the miltary, for example. women wanting to be on the fighting lines. that is not a womans place. i hate to say it that way, because it will be misconstrued. like what mauler said "sexist". that is tossed around too much these days. everything is sexist. while i know he wasn't calling me sexist directly, i got his drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Casek- A little lesson in dissolving gender binaries and the issues it causes: You know I go to a little liberal arts college with a penchant for gayness and championing that sort of life. Now, I could care less about people's preferrences, but these are the issues I have seen and or taken with the life and perception of gender that people have there. It is quite ironic to a certain extent. It fits somewhat in line with what I think you are trying to hint at, however it also removes the bite of some of your argument. That being said, one of the most interesting things I find is the disdain for classic "male" ideology yet reinterpretation and iteration upon such is just as messed up. All the tranny boys dress the same, act in what they percieve as a "masculine" tendency, yet they end up portraying the stereotypical conception of what a man is. One of my better friends used to identify as a lesbian female, now after surgery he identifies as a male. The irony is that for the general tendencies we as a society have lambasted of male action in the last thirty to fifty years, he very clearly acts out. He is super protective and over zealous of how he treats his girlfriend. He tries to carry about this air of manliness, etc that is not what it is to be, in fact a man. And he is the better of the ones I am talking about. The problem to me, is that there is this want to dissolve the idea of natural roles in gender, because with the introduction of postmodern theory it seemed stupid to believe that there is, in fact, a natural role. However, I think people are to caught up in this notion. One does not need to believe that a woman has to act a certain way or a vice versa for a man, yet they can still accept that there is infact a natural role and predominance in character to either. It is a dualism between human will over nature. The problem is that there is no such dualism. It is a bullshit notion attributed through most religious dogma, and other practices that enforce that we are above the earth and our natural conception. This in turn creates the perception that we must dissolve any notion that we may have natural predilictions to act a certain way or to have certain personality characteristics. Or rather this is the interplay of dogmatic dualism in emperical science and academic theory. I think that at this point in society, what one needs to recognize is that we as humans have the potential to will over our natural impulses and compulsory actions, but we do not need to regard those natural tendencies as bad. One should maintain an indifference between the two as to determine which better suits any given moment of action, etc. In this case, here are the two competing beliefs: Sneak- Confront him. It is not an issue of a fight, but following one's natural protective tendencies. ABC- not worth the bullshit going along with confronting someone he barely knows, and the belief that rental can handle her shit as well. and then as a contrasting middle point Casek- ehh, just dont be a bitch about it as so many seem to in this day in age. Personally, I go with ABC in this situation. We can not act as though we are still in the fifties or even so far as the seventies. Regardless of if one agrees or not, there has been a certain amount of choice and independent thought given to women that men have to recognize. In this case, for ABC to have said something against Rental's wishes would have been an act against the efficacy she holds in her own life. There is also the mediation of how long she has known that family comparative to ABC. ABC has to recognize that this is some long term shit that far extends his forray into her life. Sneak seems to percieve that ABC left it alone for fear of confrontation. Is it fear or mediation of cost and benefits? Our form of cognition is to weigh probabilities of outcomes against specific actions, and in this case a certain action had the probability of bringing about an outcome where the cost was higher than the potential benefit. Now, to the question of lack of confrontation in society. I agree there has been a certain trend of emasculation in society, but I think this is just an ebb and flow. We have lived in a patriarchical society for however many hundreds of years. So what if the womens want a little bit of it. You are still a male in a society which reveers you as still the highets place to be. And damned if you are so lucky to be white in this society. For as far as we have supposedly come in the notions of equality, it would be ignorant to deny that the inequalities initially fought against in fifties and sixties are anything more than subversively recognized in institutions rather than prima facie in day to day actions. There is no reason to believe that women having their own sense of selves or handling their shit is to be lambasted as though it is effacing your role as a man. To the contrary it leave you more free to effectively place yourself as a man and mediate your role as such against good desicions. I fight my own issues with this when I am at school. Sometimes I can't take the way men are discussed or their role in the history of the world, but that is an extreme case. It is a bunch of people finally being able to express themselves and goin a bit rediculous with that freedom. To go a bit on casek's claims about womens lib. Well that is the failure of postmodernism and feminist theory. It completely neglects any appreciation of the past history of the world. It dismisses anything completed under a patriarchical form and relegates to a subordinated class of knowledge. Rather than thinking well now that we understand how these things have worked and we can move from this, it proclaims that "what may have come" if women had run things would always have been better. This is where it fails. To assume that things would have been better otherwise. I think this is the general problem with any movement to gain equality etc. It overshoots its goals. It seeks to move the balance of power in a direction that will be no better than where we are but completely denies any validity in how we got here now. As a last note, I think the idea of equality is an ideal unreachable. Everything works on a contiuim of degrees. There will always be someone above another, someone subordinate to someone else, sub altern classes, etc. ok, sorry, just avoiding work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread women can go to the military, if a bitch wants my place in a draft instead of me. coolio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread crooked: i understand to an extent. i'm not preaching about being manly and watching nascar and drinking beer. that isn't very manly to me, that is a form of escapism and a false idea of manliness. i think being a man means taking care of your own. while rental has every right to be her own woman and all that jazz, she is married to abc. a man doesn't mess with another mans wife. that is my feeling. while i think it would be wrong for abc to walk up and sock the guy with no explanation, i still think he should have pulled him aside and asked the guy about the whole thing going down. it could have been innocent affection for her, it could have been something moreso. in a situation like that, you have to walk on eggshells so as not to fuck up a good relationship with your friends and their family, but not "puss-out" and get to the point of why you pulled him aside. i think you make an excellent point about the womens liberation going overboard. it's great that women can vote, i'd never want that to be taken away, it's great that women can work and support themselves or their families if they so choose to. but as you said, todays society is in a state of emasculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Firstly, I supposed I wasn't considering the married aspect. I forgot bout that. Oh, and I wasn't tryin to say you were bein rediculous with your treatment of how things have gone in society. I was just positing my own thoughts that I have seen at my school, etc. I just directed them to you cus you were the one opening up the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread And, to clarify, my talk about equality being an unreachable: To be sure I think it is something to be strived for. I just think it is like the idea of the infinite, something we can talk about and try to understand but that we will never get to. And I wasn't trying to use it as an excuse for certain behaviors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread right on. i understand. what really makes me sad is to see the two sides women today get to grow up with. on one side, you've got the trashy whorish paris hilt/mtv thing, on the other side you've got the "i'm am woman, hear me roar" type shit. on the other side of the fence you've got gay guys on tv building things and you've got straight guys on the food network cooking things. not saying gay guys can't install drywall or there's anything wrong with a straight guy cooking (i enjoy cooking) but doesn't that seem odd to you? and the manly aspect of things (according to popular media) you have to be into expensive things and womanizing, watch nascar and drink beer (dipshit ted nugent ideology), or fight every guy who makes a smartass remark or you "just don't like". it's perplexing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONHEAD Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread ted nugent is a funny guy. im chillin in leavenworth, kansas. man this town sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk Grenades Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread i'm neither paris hilton, or i am woman hear me roar.....i'm very independent, chill with dudes, have my tom-boyish side, but am still very girly and like to be treated like a lil' lady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Ehh I think there has always been a mischaracterization of gay males in society. I grew up in the a predominatly gay neighborhood in Houston (montrose for those who know) and there has always been full ranges of "manliness" in that community. One need merely look to the reflection of "bear" as a term in the community itself. Again I think these general questions of identity and ideologies behind such is so complex. To use my school as an example again: There is this want to get rid of gender binaries/identities etc, yet there is such a strong de facto urge for hyperspecificity of cultural identification. Which in turn ends up being much more alienating and racist than most things I have ever seen here in the south. I think a lot of it at my school has to do with class playing into these issues. But I think this is the problem with commodification of identity. We appluad people to be themselves and express themselves however they may see fit, yet we sell them the identities that may be. There is a certain movement people may have between these things. Shit, I have always seen myself as a case of such. Being ecclectic and fucking with peoples perceptions of who I am versus who they thought I would be has been a hobby since a young age. But that dont mean I rock hot topic to express my individualism. To the contrary it is my participation in society without giving a fuck about what I do (in certain regards), that makes me believe I am on such a path of self individuation. Essentially, people need to not "man-up" or any of this other ideological language, but they just need to do what they do. Appeal to whatever higher power (if that is yourself as it is with me) to make your desicions and to know what the right thing is. And recognize that all of your beliefs are mutable and can not be so rigid that reflexivity and social interaction can not change them. Rigidity is what will lead to a person's downfall in this society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread i'm neither paris hilton, or i am woman hear me roar.....i'm very independent, chill with dudes, have my tom-boyish side, but am still very girly and like to be treated like a lil' lady. damn right. Another way I see all this shit we talk about play out is in the differences between the north and south I see. I practice southern hospitality. I was taught how to act, to convey respect under certain conventions and how to act to women. Unfortunately up north people see these conventions as conveying disrespect or effacing a person's individual nature. Particularly women in the north. If I hold a door for you or call you mam, dont get upset. Be happy I am so considerate as to show my respect for you rather than your bullshit way of personal indifference. I hate that shit with a fucking passion. To me, that is an american problem though. When indifference became the mode of respect in this country, that is when things got to an irreversible place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread crooked: i'm sure we'd both agree that sherock needs to get her ass in the kitchen and make all of us ham sammiches. roles seem to play an important part in society. from the rich to the poor. what i think a woman should be is, as sherock said, treated like a lady and act as such. getting as much respect from the outside as she would hold on the inside. an equal amount, that is to say. i do not think a woman should be on the frontlines of a war, fighting in the street and getting all brash an shit. to me, personally, that is unattractive. more later. got work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread damn right. Another way I see all this shit we talk about play out is in the differences between the north and south I see. I practice southern hospitality. I was taught how to act, to convey respect under certain conventions and how to act to women. Unfortunately up north people see these conventions as conveying disrespect or effacing a person's individual nature. Particularly women in the north. If I hold a door for you or call you mam, dont get upset. Be happy I am so considerate as to show my respect for you rather than your bullshit way of personal indifference. I hate that shit with a fucking passion. To me, that is an american problem though. When indifference became the mode of respect in this country, that is when things got to an irreversible place. well said. southern hospitality is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk Grenades Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread sorry casek, i would knock a bitch out if need be, maybe even a guy if he attempted to disrespect me. i can do some serious magic in the kitchen at times too, but that's only when i feel like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread sammiches all around then eh sherock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk Grenades Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread as long as it doesn't include onions or mustard haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread ha, i just said that in the onions thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread sorry casek, i would knock a bitch out if need be, maybe even a guy if he attempted to disrespect me. i can do some serious magic in the kitchen at times too, but that's only when i feel like it. well, in a given situation, good for you. i was saying that women don't need to be all bird chested and badass. but yeah, no mustard and onions plz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk Grenades Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread but i am badass ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushawn wuan Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread onions but no mustard on mine. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread oh, and she- ill hold the door for you anytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milk Grenades Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread aww that's sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit The Shit Thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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