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swif1

Toys post here...

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I hope I didn’t come off rude I just really feel like quite frustrated at the moment. I do appreciate the help on here. I don’t want to seem ungrateful or like a dick in general. 

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On 10/15/2019 at 6:24 PM, Joker said:

There's definitely a chance you'll be doing burners in five years, but there's also a chance you won't. As long as you listen to the help you're being given and put that feedback to use, you'll progress rather quickly. 

 

I've seen a few writers have a mentor spend hours upon hours with them but they have their ideas and are more focused on those that what is being taught. Those same writers didn't last two years because they never got better. One of them was mentored by the same guy who taught me. He was talented but didn't listen. When I would bring it up with him he would always say "I don't want to do it like that" or  "my idea is better". The ideas were honestly really good, but the execution was horrendous because he skipped necessary steps in learning how to structure a piece, and how to properly build letters that work well with one another.

 

The basics... I can't stress enough how important the basics are. They take time but once it clicks... you're on your way. 

 

As for the need to constantly change things up - I absolutely relate to this. My structure is always the same but my build and style change often. It helps keep things interesting, especially after 34 years of doing this... 

@Limeliciouzplease reread this and think about it...slow down.

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@Ray40This one? Tighten it up. Think about a vertical and horizontal grid. Have the matching parts of each letter line up and work with each other. Avoid overlaps at this point, or take @Jokeradvice from recent pages. He has explained how alternating overlaps can work well.

B1C54091-2EED-4E43-AE9D-0E64701CEF94.png

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Thanks so much @LUGR, I really want to get good at these so I can get up with them and my character in my town

Edited by Ray40

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15 hours ago, Limeliciouz said:

I appreciate this. There’s just only so many times you can do a plain planked alphebet. What about the step RIGHT AFTER doing the very basics? 

 

How exactly do you ‘structure a peice’? How exactly do you ‘properly build letters that work well with one another’?

By being able to do the basic letter? I can do that. I don’t know how to build onto that. Anyone can copy a keyboard obviously I’m trying to develope style and flow.

 

I can see why alotta my sketches don’t flow. But I’m not getting how to flow in general and getting it right the first time. How to do it naturally. 

 

i thought graff was simple lmao. Been doing letters since kindergarten fs. Shouldn’t be too hard right.  

 

 

I didn't take your reply as rude, but more frustration... and rightly so. Being a Graffiti writer is frustrating, even when you're at the tip of your game, it's frustrating. So, no, I wasn't offended by the post. But let me see if I can help answer some questions...

 

After Basics

After you are comfortable with the basics (which I think you are) is when you start messing around with how letters interact with one another, scale, adding arrows... bits... doo-dads, and the like. The letters stay fairly simple, still, but you start to teach yourself those little bits of style that set the piece apart from a straight block letter. Personally, I believe you're at this point so that's a separate conversation. 

 

How do you structure a piece

Not all pieces require a solid structure, but most benefit from it. There's plenty to argue that none of my pieces in the last ten years have structure, but I had a solid understanding of how to structure a piece before I started doing abstract Graffiti. A showstopper piece 99% of the time is going to have some solid structure to it, and by structure, I mean the overall piece looks like it was thought out from left to right. This doesn't always mean that the left mirrors the right, but for clarity I'm going to use a piece like that as an example:

 

2104249001_Untitled_Artwork(3).thumb.jpg.ad5cc1a7ab4db68da782d93a2eb54951.jpg

 

Overall this piece has a solid arched-like structure. The right side of the A and the left side of the M are practically vertical which gives the overall structure of the piece a solid foundation. Think of it like building a home... kinda - the A and M are the support beams that give a solid foundation to hold the S, U, and E. I'm not saying all pieces need to mirror left to right, I'm saying that your piece will benefit if you consider the overall piece structure instead of letter by letter.

 

Does that help explain what I mean by structure? If not, let me know and I'll try to explain further. 

 

Building letters that work well with one another

Let's use the same piece to explain this one, too. So if you look at the A and M you'll notice how they both have the same overall build, just mirrored. Visually this allows the overall piece to read really well. Even the arrows coming off the sides are similar to one another, not the same... similar, and both have bits coming off the longer bar. This relates to those two letters reading well with one another even though they're not right next to each other. 

 

Let's go to the S... the left side of this letter nestles in really well with the right side of the A. It's technically not vertical on the left side, but it is made to feel as though it is by the subtle intersections between the A and S. The bottom of the letter holds the same arc the one next to it started off with, creating structure (see what I did, there?). 

 

On to the E... this letter has many of the same line weights and angles as the S, just a mirror reflection of it. Even though the top rounded bit is the same shape as the S (not a mirror of it, but the same) it still works because the bottom of the letter holds that same arc as the final letter, grounding the letter, while the rest of the letter has similar angles to the S. It kicks back into the S creating a natural home for the U, which fits into that area perfectly. It's like the writer planned it that way 😉

 

1652799902_Untitled_Artwork(2).thumb.jpg.05ffb559cab80255fb18054f1c2abdbe.jpg

 

Basically, you want the overall structure to look/feel solid, but you also want letters that nestle perfectly into one another. Overlapping is the tried and true method for doing this, but usually when first starting out most writers don't play around with how their letters are interacting with one another... they're just overlapping because that's what they see. So play around with drawing just single letters and drawing two of your letters together - like the L and I, then the I and M, and so on. Don't worry about the others, just focus on how one interacts with the other and different ways they come together. Keep it simple, not block letters, but simple Graffiti style. 

 

I think you know you're further along than I'm making out, but I'm hoping to get you to understand your letters really well before moving on to next steps.

 

You know... I've told this story a lot but it might help me get my point across on why sketching is so important -

In the early 90s I had moved to the Bay Area and eventually was being mentored by Raevyn TWS. If you don't know who he is, look him up... or just open Spraycan Art. Anyway, he and I had been meeting once a week for about six months and trying to work out new ideas, different ways of bringing letters together, different styles... just constantly sketching ideas that never saw the light of day. Some of those studies made it into my blackbook as full pieces all colored in like a blackbook should be. Anyway, there was this big event in the city where Phase2 and Schmidlap were giving a talk and writers form all over the Bay would be there. I showed up with Raevyn and we ran into his crew mate Crayone... another heavy hitter from the area. Raevyn was talking me up telling Crayone about my work and how excited he was about the stuff I was doing, so Crayone started to flip through the pages of my blackbook. About five pages in he slammed the book shut and said "Looks just like your stuff, Rae". I was absolutely crushed. I had worked for six months non-stop to come up with some new shit, something that was mine, and a person whom I hold in high regard just told me my work is all stolen from Raevyn. Initially I wanted to quit and focus on skateboarding, but Rae told me not to worry about what Crayone said and to keep going. I spent every-fucking-day sketching, perfecting every letter, every connection option, everything. Eventually I found my own style, my own groove, and it put me on the path to the writer I became. So while I was crushed at the time by what Crayone said - he said exactly what I needed to hear. I think he knew I needed to hear it. I've never talked to him since that moment but when I do get the chance to I will let him know that I'm forever grateful for his honesty. 

 

So stay frustrated but let that inspire you to push through. 

 

 

 

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There’s a lot in there n it’s all legit bruv thanks. 

 

I try to structure but my letters don’t fit together nicely. The L is a awkward letter and so is the i. And the the e has negetive space any way you do it that makes it look wierd. It’s not a nice flow naturally. M is a nice letter we’ll give props to that. 

 

I picked it bc it had had a nice vibe. That was ages ago. I just started then and didn’t really know what I was doing. Hit the streets with it and next thing I know the local writers know me by it. So now I can’t change it and tbh I don’t want to bc ngl I have a kickass tag even tho I can’t to burners with it. 

 

I wish i can open my spraycan art but my parents threw that out a while ago ope. Only got to read it like 3 times. My graffiti school went also. Managed to keep my subway art lent that to a friend to keep for a while so my folks can forget about it. 

586FDF47-0D32-49C1-9D05-AF28B460A45E.jpeg

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The top one is the best overall in my opinion.  The flow of the letters starts off well with the base of the L and there are no extra add ons on the piece.  The unnecessary effects on the second piece takes away from your letters which don't flow in that example.  To be specific here - all of the letters get progressively smaller from the start.  As far as the third goes, the LIM flow well but the E is too small in comparison to the L and the M.  The I flows acceptably well because of it's width (I would personally make the top of it a bit higher though to stay in flow with the other letters).

 

Here is my contribution to the thread:

spacer.png

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2 hours ago, enteruncreativename said:

Here is my contribution to the thread:

 

Are you looking for feedback or just contributing?

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2 hours ago, enteruncreativename said:

The unnecessary effects on the second piece

Actually those effects - *cough*characteristicsbutIdoubtuknowthediffyet*cough* - were necessary. 

 

Thank you for the rest of the feedback tho. 

 

Some feedback for you: try practicing some bars with constant width, all your letters are uneven. Your bubble letters seem good tho. Are those one liners? 

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@Limeliciouz- sorry for all the sketch lines but I wanted to do this super quick without over-thinking it. 
 

I took your last posted sketch as inspiration and redrew it with how I saw the letters working together. This is kinda what my mentor did for me a few times and it really helped me understand how my letters could come together, so hopefully it helps you. 
 

I first drew the M and E, then the L and I, and then put them together so I could see the whole piece and how it come together. Sorry the right side of the E gets cut off. 
 


 

 

10387ECA-FBC1-48F6-BF7F-872DC37D8AAE.jpeg

F258DC52-5F33-41AD-94D3-76E8061F5044.jpeg

C8F6FAA6-F335-4170-B123-138539BA8825.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Joker said:

@Limeliciouz- sorry for all the sketch lines but I wanted to do this super quick without over-thinking it. 
 

I took your last posted sketch as inspiration and redrew it with how I saw the letters working together. This is kinda what my mentor did for me a few times and it really helped me understand how my letters could come together, so hopefully it helps you. 
 

I first drew the M and E, then the L and I, and then put them together so I could see the whole piece and how it come together. Sorry the right side of the E gets cut off. 
 


 

 

10387ECA-FBC1-48F6-BF7F-872DC37D8AAE.jpeg

F258DC52-5F33-41AD-94D3-76E8061F5044.jpeg

C8F6FAA6-F335-4170-B123-138539BA8825.jpeg

Bode lizard in the top left creeping out from behind the L and Cheech defeated posture on the floor, legs splayed and back leaned up against the front of the E. Bode butterfly or two floating around and think this ones a wrap. 

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2 hours ago, misteraven said:

Bode lizard in the top left creeping out from behind the L and Cheech defeated posture on the floor, legs splayed and back leaned up against the front of the E. Bode butterfly or two floating around and think this ones a wrap. 

Bode characters always add that finishing touch...

Screen Shot 2019-10-18 at 7.47.52 AM.png

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3 minutes ago, Joker said:

Bode characters always add that finishing touch...

Screen Shot 2019-10-18 at 7.47.52 AM.png

Amazing!

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@Joker@misteravenhaha it’s cool to see u guys having fun with my tag and joker it lookin old skl fresh as fuck damn thank man I love the bode charachters which I wanted to ask by the way do any of the bode comics still exist to buy? Like not as an artifact tho lmao I’m broke lol 

 

was looking back thru my stuff and found this from at least a year or two ago....feels like I’m getting worse 😂🙈😢

image.jpg

Edited by Limeliciouz

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On 10/17/2019 at 7:40 PM, Limeliciouz said:

Actually those effects - *cough*characteristicsbutIdoubtuknowthediffyet*cough* - were necessary. 

 

Thank you for the rest of the feedback tho. 

 

Some feedback for you: try practicing some bars with constant width, all your letters are uneven. Your bubble letters seem good tho. Are those one liners? 

What I meant was for you to focus on the letters themselves before you detail on the effects on top of them. 

 

No problem and I think the inconsistent bars are just my style of expressing different parts of the word.  But I tend to make them go taller so, yeah that is something I should pay more attention to.  Thank you and yes they are one liners.

 

On 10/17/2019 at 7:02 PM, Joker said:

Are you looking for feedback or just contributing?

I was contributing something to be commented about if someone wanted to.  Your piece is 🎖️ though.

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@Limeliciouzif I were you, I’d get a pad of tracing paper, print out @Joker’s outline and redraw it a bunch of times and explore new ways to connect the letters and evolve the flow of it. Get a real feel for what’s going on and experiment. Once you feel you really have it down, you can redraw it clean a final time and then practice inking it in cleanly. From that point, I’d go back in and play with various 3d’s, graphics, background clouds etc in pencil so you can further practice proportions and flow. Do all that before you break out markers and play with color. 

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1 minute ago, misteraven said:

@Limeliciouzif I were you, I’d get a pad of tracing paper, print out @Joker’s outline and redraw it a bunch of times and explore new ways to connect the letters and evolve the flow of it. Get a real feel for what’s going on and experiment. Once you feel you really have it down, you can redraw it clean a final time and then practice inking it in cleanly. From that point, I’d go back in and play with various 3d’s, graphics, background clouds etc in pencil so you can further practice proportions and flow. Do all that before you break out markers and play with color. 

I just can’t be bothered copying someone else’s work. I’ll do it to show u I can tho now that u put me up to it. I just don’t feel good or accomplished abt it 

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7 minutes ago, Limeliciouz said:

I just can’t be bothered copying someone else’s work. I’ll do it to show u I can tho now that u put me up to it. I just don’t feel good or accomplished abt it 

This is about mentoring and learning, not copying. A very notable writer took the time to give you a sketch, so make the most of it. You're likely too young and too new to realize the opportunity you're being given by that (and other accomplished writers dropping in and providing feedback and direction), but its not a common thing. You'd be best served in terms of your own progression, as well as paying proper respect by doing that and making the most of it. This isn't the same as redrawing someone elses outline (which isn't even a bad thing or unusual) or anything like biting... He did that for you... Use it.

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11 minutes ago, misteraven said:

This is about mentoring and learning, not copying. A very notable writer took the time to give you a sketch, so make the most of it. You're likely too young and too new to realize the opportunity you're being given by that (and other accomplished writers dropping in and providing feedback and direction), but its not a common thing. You'd be best served in terms of your own progression, as well as paying proper respect by doing that and making the most of it. This isn't the same as redrawing someone elses outline (which isn't even a bad thing or unusual) or anything like biting... He did that for you... Use it.

Yeah I’m doing it didn’t mean disrespect

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