Toys post here...

[Joker]

On 10/2/2019 at 8:39 PM, Limeliciouz said:

Ik u guys r gonna go on about leaving the fills n shit n just practice trust I do practice but there’s gotta be some fun in this camon 

 

so other then that is the stuff wacked or am I progressing? Does it look toy as hell 🙈🙈

Personally, I like the last one. The second one isn't bad, either. 

 

The reason we're focused on just sketches, or very little color, is because I'm trying to help everyone understand how letters work with each other, and how the piece works as a whole. You can add all the colors of the rainbow, and have the most amazing painting techniques, but if your letters are toy... you're still a toy. More to the point - if you can't burn with just two colors, you can't burn (a little something I learned from Phase2). 

 

Often I see writers who have a lot going on with their fill-ins and crazy outter-outlines, and other stuff, but when I break down their letters and letter structure it's not as impressive as their painting skills. And while that can be fine for some writers, their peers know better and can see they're hiding behind all that noise. My goal is to help those who truly want help to have a solid letter foundation, while the colors, squiggles, etc is all up to them and how they want to fill their work in, as it should be. 

 

Please continue to share your work if you want feedback, but try to include a few sketches without color as well. It makes seeing the letters as they are and helps me offer proper feedback. 

[Joker]

@Giant- I like it! What do you think? Does it feel good to you? 

[Joker]

21 hours ago, billoboy2020 said:

What up 12oz

Im a toy with a couple of question and in need for critcal advice. Ive been following this thread for 1 week now and id like to thank Joker  (and the others) VERY MUCH for still sticking around and helping us toys with great advice even though this forum is not as active as it used to be (sadly) 

I really like the advice u guys give and because im kinda struggling ive decided to make an account and ask a couple of questions.

 

Ive peen painting on paper for a bit and i think this pictures is the best ive drawn.

 

So i really love this name, but with the time i struggle to draw nice (more then basic) B's that look good because i feel like there is only so much u can do with a B. Ive seen many pics (mainly on nitro combis tumblr) and ive noticed that many writers dont have a B in their name and if they do it looks basic. This is not a problem per se bcz not every letter needs to look super special. But the thing is that my name consists of 2 Bs and one O so i feel like i cant do anything more than basic with this name and im kinda stuck. 

 

Thats mainly why im here. Maybe u will just tell me i need to get better and tbh im kinda thinking the same. But at the same time im thinking, why make it harder than it already is. u feel me?

 

 

I thought about drawing Herby (is that a good name?) and if it sucks maybe you guys could give me some knowledge what makes a good name that flows well. Ive searched on reddit and other websites about the 101s of name choosing but i couldnt get a good guide. 

 

 

Anyway, thanks again so much Joker and all the others for helping us out. We all really appreciate it.

 

Also, excuse any mistakes i made. Im not a native speaker but youll hopefully understand me.

 

 

 

 

 

For starters, I agree that getting the letter B perfect can be a tough one (at least for me) but there are plenty of solid Graffiti writers out there to disprove that thought - the first two that come to mind are Bates and Mr. Baker, I would take some time to study what those two and other writers whose name start with the letter B are doing and see how they're setting the letter up, and how they structure the B into the next letter is also important. You can go through the B section on ArtCrimes as well for a thorough look into writers who use B in their name. There's bound to be inspiration there. 

 

I think if you're struggling with the letters, and you're admitting you're still toy, then that struggle is right where you need to be. There's no easy "in" with Graffiti. You quite literally have to put in the work to get something out of it. We can help you break through the struggle should you honestly want the help and are willing to take constructive feedback and apply it to your work. It shouldn't be that hard if you have folks like myself and a few others on here nudging you in the right direction. So... try not to think of it as a struggle but more as a learning process. Easy for me to say, I know, but trust that I've also been in the same position hundreds of times over my 35+ years as a writer. The letter J absolutely sucks... I still hate it to this day, and often throw in the towel on pieces just so I can be done with it and move on. It's all a part of the process. Most of the time you're not going to like a letter in your piece, but when you nail every letter... it's truly satisfying. 

 

I say no to the name "Herby". Maybe "Herb" could work but then you're setting yourself up to be ridiculed by your peers. Stick with "Boba". As a guy who was 11 when Empire Strikes Back came out, and immediately a big Boba Fett fan, I say stick with Boba. 

[billoboy2020]

15 minutes ago, Joker said:

For starters, I agree that getting the letter B perfect can be a tough one (at least for me) but there are plenty of solid Graffiti writers out there to disprove that thought - the first two that come to mind are Bates and Mr. Baker, I would take some time to study what those two and other writers whose name start with the letter B are doing and see how they're setting the letter up, and how they structure the B into the next letter is also important. You can go through the B section on ArtCrimes as well for a thorough look into writers who use B in their name. There's bound to be inspiration there. 

 

I think if you're struggling with the letters, and you're admitting you're still toy, then that struggle is right where you need to be. There's no easy "in" with Graffiti. You quite literally have to put in the work to get something out of it. We can help you break through the struggle should you honestly want the help and are willing to take constructive feedback and apply it to your work. It shouldn't be that hard if you have folks like myself and a few others on here nudging you in the right direction. So... try not to think of it as a struggle but more as a learning process. Easy for me to say, I know, but trust that I've also been in the same position hundreds of times over my 35+ years as a writer. The letter J absolutely sucks... I still hate it to this day, and often throw in the towel on pieces just so I can be done with it and move on. It's all a part of the process. Most of the time you're not going to like a letter in your piece, but when you nail every letter... it's truly satisfying. 

 

I say no to the name "Herby". Maybe "Herb" could work but then you're setting yourself up to be ridiculed by your peers. Stick with "Boba". As a guy who was 11 when Empire Strikes Back came out, and immediately a big Boba Fett fan, I say stick with Boba. 

Ok man, tho i must say im not sure if you got my point. I dont have anything against the letter B in general, i know you can make it look dope and i still need to train alot to be able to but im more talking about Boba as a name. You know i can only play with 2 B's, O and A. Bates and Baker have more letters to play with. Same with your name. Writing 'Joja' would suck also.

 

Idk man, i like star wars also alot, but i would like an objective critic on the name itself. And maybe some general tips for name choosing.

 

Thanks for the reply tho man.

[Giant]

47 minutes ago, Joker said:

@Giant- I like it! What do you think? Does it feel good to you? 

Yes it feels like, not a solid piece yet but almost. I want to let loose and create wilder letters but can’t wuite wrap my head around extensions I get they should flow with the letters as such but I struggle with them haha

[Banok1]

39 minutes ago, Joker said:

For starters, I agree that getting the letter B perfect can be a tough one (at least for me) but there are plenty of solid Graffiti writers out there to disprove that thought - the first two that come to mind are Bates and Mr. Baker, I would take some time to study what those two and other writers whose name start with the letter B are doing and see how they're setting the letter up, and how they structure the B into the next letter is also important. You can go through the B section on ArtCrimes as well for a thorough look into writers who use B in their name. There's bound to be inspiration there. 

 

I think if you're struggling with the letters, and you're admitting you're still toy, then that struggle is right where you need to be. There's no easy "in" with Graffiti. You quite literally have to put in the work to get something out of it. We can help you break through the struggle should you honestly want the help and are willing to take constructive feedback and apply it to your work. It shouldn't be that hard if you have folks like myself and a few others on here nudging you in the right direction. So... try not to think of it as a struggle but more as a learning process. Easy for me to say, I know, but trust that I've also been in the same position hundreds of times over my 35+ years as a writer. The letter J absolutely sucks... I still hate it to this day, and often throw in the towel on pieces just so I can be done with it and move on. It's all a part of the process. Most of the time you're not going to like a letter in your piece, but when you nail every letter... it's truly satisfying. 

 

I say no to the name "Herby". Maybe "Herb" could work but then you're setting yourself up to be ridiculed by your peers. Stick with "Boba". As a guy who was 11 when Empire Strikes Back came out, and immediately a big Boba Fett fan, I say stick with Boba. 

The letter B is where its at

[Limeliciouz]

1 hour ago, Joker said:

Personally, I like the last one. The second one isn't bad, either. 

 

The reason we're focused on just sketches, or very little color, is because I'm trying to help everyone understand how letters work with each other, and how the piece works as a whole. You can add all the colors of the rainbow, and have the most amazing painting techniques, but if your letters are toy... you're still a toy. More to the point - if you can't burn with just two colors, you can't burn (a little something I learned from Phase2). 

 

Often I see writers who have a lot going on with their fill-ins and crazy outter-outlines, and other stuff, but when I break down their letters and letter structure it's not as impressive as their painting skills. And while that can be fine for some writers, their peers know better and can see they're hiding behind all that noise. My goal is to help those who truly want help to have a solid letter foundation, while the colors, squiggles, etc is all up to them and how they want to fill their work in, as it should be. 

 

Please continue to share your work if you want feedback, but try to include a few sketches without color as well. It makes seeing the letters as they are and helps me offer proper feedback. 

I like what u said abt being able to burn with two colors. That’s true it’s powerful. Here’s a sketch. Thinking chunky but dunno if it flows....and is the shadow ok? I have a hard time with shadows especially 3Ds 

[Joker]

2 hours ago, billoboy2020 said:

Ok man, tho i must say im not sure if you got my point. I dont have anything against the letter B in general, i know you can make it look dope and i still need to train alot to be able to but im more talking about Boba as a name. You know i can only play with 2 B's, O and A. Bates and Baker have more letters to play with. Same with your name. Writing 'Joja' would suck also.

 

Idk man, i like star wars also alot, but i would like an objective critic on the name itself. And maybe some general tips for name choosing.

 

Thanks for the reply tho man.

Sorry I misunderstood. Let me try it again...

 

So, Boba is an original name as far as I know. It doesn't mean that no one is writing it, but I've not seen it being used before. So if you wanted to stick with it, at least you know you'll be the only one, if not one of a very small amount world wide. 

 

As for choosing names - well, I came up in a time where names were given to you or passed down. A lot of kids still chose their own name but deep in the culture names were given. Since you're not being traditionally mentored by anyone I would say you have to choose your own name. There's several ways you can go about this, but the best is to choose something that means something to you, first. This ensures that you'll have a deep connection to the name and fight for it. If the name you choose using that option is already being used, the next option is to come up with some random shit that might work. For example... in Philly and Miami there were some writers who wrote initials - ND (Ende), NM (Enem), and BeeLove, for example. Your tag doesn't really have to be a traditional name, it can be anything you relate to. Another example would be a local writer where I live writes K2. Don't drink alcohol? - write Sober. Like Star Wars? - write SW. Big dreamer? - write Lucid. Be creative and think beyond tradition since traditional means are not an option. Whatever name you choose make sure it's something you identify with and something you'll be proud to represent. The letters and letter structure will come regardless. 

 

For clarity: when I first started writing I wrote Crime. Yep, the most unoriginal name you can think of. Shortly after that I learned about Subway Art and Spraycan Art. Then I decided to write Dez because my middle name is Desmond. Again, fucking unoriginal as it gets. Shortly after that I met this guy who wrote Joker. He had a ton of style and a lot of knowledge. He leant me his sketchbooks, taught me how to structure letters, how to build a piece, how to create a solid tag, all that stuff. And because I was studying his name and copying his letters to learn, I became decent at his name. Dez... not so much. Eventually I went off to college and learned he stopped writing Joker and started writing Etch. So, like the unoriginal piece of crap I was, I started writing Joker in 1989. And I've been writing it ever since. I've always felt bad about just taking the name but my mentor has never held a grudge over it, even continuing to teach me after I started writing with his old name. So for me, the name holds history and weight, and I like to think I'm a funny guy... though I'm most certainly not. 

 

So... in conclusion, choose a name that fits you, that you feel a relation to, that you'll be proud to scrawl on walls everywhere. 

 

Does that help?

[billoboy2020]

yea it does. thanks joker. have a great day

[Joker]

2 hours ago, Giant said:

Yes it feels like, not a solid piece yet but almost. I want to let loose and create wilder letters but can’t wuite wrap my head around extensions I get they should flow with the letters as such but I struggle with them haha

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. We can get to that once you're comfortable with your letters and building a solid overall piece. Those flourishes and extensions are fluff and filler, but we want your letters to shine on their own, first. After that we can go in and add the flourishes to really add punch. 

 

For the record, I'm not super-good at flourishes and extensions, but I can help you wrap your head around how they work, and where they work best... hopefully. Ha!

[Joker]

@Limeliciouz- The sketch looks fine to me for the most part. There's a few things I would change to tighten it up, but at the moment I can't make those changes so I'll have to get back to you with that. 

 

As for the shadowing - everything looks correct to me except for the tippy-top of the E. Your shadow at that part of the E, if there was one at all, wouldn't be as thick as it is below your letter. For solid clarification of where your shadows will fall - grab a piece of tracing paper, trace your outline, then shift that tracing slightly to the left, and down. That'll show you where your shadow lines will truly fall.

 

I'll post later with how I would tighten up the sketch below.

 

[Hua Guofang]

Jesus, straight up masterclass in here, @misteravenalmost should be charging an entry fee!

[Giant]

[Ray40]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:43 AM, Giant said:

@Ray40iv beenawing on and off for years. But I never had anyone to look too when I got stuck or frustrated so I’d just put my pen down and leave it then 2-3 years go by and you try again etc etc. Now I have applied myself to learning the basics and help from joker and everyone else has helped me improve a hell of a lot. I’m not part of a crew as I don’t know anyone around me that’s in a crew. The only people iv met that graff are when iv gone to graffiti stores but they are well established writers. But I’m of an older age now so if I go and paint I go on my own but I work full time and have a family so spare time for myself is a rarity. 

 

You said you you are in your early teens right? Perfect time to apply yourself. If you spend time listening and looking at other people look at their progression, study the changes they have made to make their piece look better then look at yours see if them changes also work for your letter whether it be closing space, widening or lengthening bars. But most of all listen to the advice of the elders, they have been where you are and have had the struggles you have had. So their advice is the key to progression. Literally draw jokers outline over and over and over until it looks as good as the original every time you draw it. Then the world is your oyster because you have then learnt your basic letter structure. You can start to manipulate your letters in a way they you can still see the structure. This will also be a difficult stage but if you keep pushing like you did to learn your basics you will get there! 

 

Sorry for for the long ass messege. 

Haha

Thats a hard life for doing graff, I hope you do well managing your schedule 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ray40

[Limeliciouz]

@Jokerthanks but I don’t think there’s much to work with there it’s a pretty simple sketch here’s a few 

[Limeliciouz]

[Giant]

[Giant]

Well Pendolino is a train so had to draw one at some point! Bit of fun

[Giant]

Outlined 

[Joker]

10 hours ago, Limeliciouz said:

@Jokerthanks but I don’t think there’s much to work with there it’s a pretty simple sketch here’s a few 

 

Dude... you didn't even give me a chance. Ha!

 

Yes, a simple sketch but my goal is to help you take a simple sketch and a make it better. If I can't make it better, you don't need my help on that sketch. 

 

Side note: before posting your sketches, please orientate them correctly. Makes it easier to read. 

 

Here's what I did with your simple sketch:

1. The L felt like it was leaning into the I far too much. I relaxed that bar a bit, and made the notch coming off the back of the bar a bit bigger so it felt more substantial in weight. 

2. The I felt like it was shoved in there and leaning far too much the opposite way of the rest of your letters. I kept the same lean but flattened the bottom to be more in line with the rest of your letters, and gave it an overlapping star  because, well, I couldn't think of anything else to put there. My goal with the star was to give some breathing room up there. 

3. I didn't make many changes to the M, at least not drastic. I added a bit between to the two notches at the bottom, and extended the right section at the top. 

4. The E looked like it was a an old, tired man leaning against a wall, so I changed it up to be more Graffiti-like. Overlapped the top section, and gave it the same lean as your other letters. 

5. Shadows - when you have angles the depth of the shadow isn't going to be as thick as at the bottom or the side of a letter. In general, it'll be about half as thick, sometimes less. Most of your shadows were spot on, it was just on the angles that you were slightly off. 

 

Hopefully these edits help convey how you can take a simple sketch, keep it simple, and still give it some style (I put my edits above your sketch so you can compare them). Let me know what you think and if there's anything you'd do differently, and why. 

 

Again, guys like Geser are really good at taking simple styles and making them funky. I would definitely scroll through that link, find the simples, and notice how he gives them very little Graffiti elements but they still feel very Graffiti-like. It's masterful. Something I wish I could do. 

 

 

[Joker]

On 10/4/2019 at 3:01 PM, Hua Guofang said:

Jesus, straight up masterclass in here, @misteravenalmost should be charging an entry fee!

LOL! As long as I get at least 30%...

[Limeliciouz]

@joker damn that looks really good. Yh is the small changes in the letters that really make it up. I appreciate the help. I’ll look into geser. I’m having a really hard time with rounder straight letters.....I’m better at bubble letters...whatever it’s something I’m working on and look at other artists for in the meantime.Do u think u can look at my other sketches when u have a minute pls?  

[Joker]

3 hours ago, Limeliciouz said:

Do u think u can look at my other sketches when u have a minute pls?  

Looking at the color pieces you posted on the previous page, other than the bubble letter piece I don’t really have any feedback. They’re honestly not bad. The bubble letters look like, well, bubble letters so if you were going for something along the lines of a throwup style piece... you nailed bubble letters. I wish I could help with throwups but other than my own name I suck at throwups. 

 

As as for the last two sketches you posted let’s look at the first one because it has 3D. 

 

My edits:

1. Again, I relaxed the L a bit and gave it a notch/bit on the top. Keeps the letter simple but gives it some style. 

2. Instead of covering up the I wither top of the L, I brought the top of the I back to the forefront to make the letter more prominent. 

3. Didn’t really do anything to the M other than extend the top right slightly. 

4. I kinda did the same thing as your last sketch when it comes to the E. Just gave it a slight twist to give it a little more style. I added the round bit to balance the one on the L. 

 

Overall I gave each letter a more robust serif, and rounded each letter for softness. Gives the piece overall a little more weight, which feels good when doing simples. 

 

As as for the 3D, I kept that simple, too. No need to extend every single line especially when you’ve got a lot of lines to extend, the less you use, the more open and simple it feels, and the more readable it is. 

 

Your line “shines” I have added a bit of dimension to just because it feels more soft when doing rounded letters. 

[LUGR]

@LimeliciouzTry giving your I some space. Seems to be consistently undersized, closed out and overlapped.

Edited October 7, 2019 by LUGR

[billoboy2020]

is this throw any good?

[LUGR]

No

[billoboy2020]

2 minutes ago, LUGR said:

No

darm brother why not. can u give me some tips. i really like it tbh

[Joker]

4 hours ago, billoboy2020 said:

is this throw any good?

Honestly, no. Throw-ups, like everything else in Graffiti, take A LOT of time to master. And just like simple-style pieces, it's best to start off simple and not complicate the process too much. A throw-up is designed to be executed quickly. The less stop and go, the quicker the process. 

 

Essentially what you've done is give yourself a lot to think about while putting this up quickly. When you're starting out you want to simplify things for several reasons. First, you want to be able to initial outline/fill-in/final outline while watching over your back. Your sketch has a lot of parts to it which would make watching over your back difficult. Second, you want to be able to do this quickly. Throw-us are not something you "draw" or take your time with. 

 

Keep it simple, think quick execution, and walk away. 

 

Something like this:

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Joker

[billoboy2020]

11 minutes ago, Joker said:

Honestly, no. Throw-ups, like everything else in Graffiti, take A LOT of time to master. And just like simple-style pieces, it's best start off simple and not complicate the process too much. A throw-up is designed to be executed quickly. The less stop and go, the quicker the process. 

 

Essentially what you've done is give yourself a lot to think about while putting this up quickly. When you're starting out you want to simplify things for several reasons. First, you want to be able to initial outline/fill-in/final outline while watching over your back. Your sketch has a lot of parts to it which would make watching over your back difficult. Second, you want to be able to do this quickly, even on paper. Throw-us are not something you draw or take your time with. 

 

Keep it simple, think quick execution, and walk away. 

 

Try something like this:

 

 

ok thanks man thats something i can work with.  What do u think of the looks of the throw in general? if time didnt matter i mean. gonna draw something easier now tho and upload it

Edited October 9, 2019 by billoboy2020

[misteraven]

10 minutes ago, billoboy2020 said:

ok thanks man thats something i can work with.  What do u think of the looks of the throw in general? if time didnt matter i mean. 

Here's some nice examples by Adek and Remio. Suggest you dig through the forum for throwup threads and get an idea for them. Be inspired but don't bite.

 

Key to the whole thing is how effortless they look when done properly. No doubt it's from countless times doing it (takes 10,000 hours to be an expert), pus a little flare and tons of style that largely comes from efficiency, originality and doing it a million times and then some.

 

Thanks for what you're doing @Jokerand the rest of you trying to pass along knowledge.