fermentor666 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by MESTHREE@Dec 29 2004, 05:21 AM im saying they are awkward and chaotic. in a bad way. Quoted post Well, I'm glad you're being honest. Thankfully, I did them for me, not for you. The one with the girl in the middle, the most blatently collage-like, was all pictures that she made that I felt inclined to throw together. I used to talk to her over IRC years ago. And to be honest, the whole experience was awkward and chaotic, in a BAD way. It's not something I did for everyone to see but it was so long ago I figured why not post it here. The first picture I posted I really like, the others I don't really care about anymore, but this is the Photoshop thread so why not post em. These aren't works of art anyone is claiming to put up here, more like works of hobby. I'm not sure what you were expecting coming in here, Mes3, I mean even the shit you posted is pretty boring. It's Photoshop. But like I said, I appreciate your honesty, you're the first person to say it's chaotic crap and in ways it is. But I still think the first two pictures I posted are pretty cool. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 so youre saying you intentionally made those to be crappy? I dont buy it. but okay if you say so. I also dont believe that people create 'art' just for themselves. art beggs to be displayed or else it looses whatever meaning it may have but thats a whole other barrel of monkeys. Photoshop doesnt have to be boring. What did I expect to see? I didn't expect anything. Im just saying. I look at those things you posted and I can see the hrmm lets see motion blur filter, beveled edge filter....eyecandy maybe? the crystalize filter? The composition is not successful in expressing the kind of chaos I think you are getting at and the colours have no connections to anything. And I dont really buy the explaination that 'I was trying to express a chaotic in a bad way' argument. there are ways to do that that still display some level of design skill. Anyhow Im not trying to tear you down. I just know from too many years of garbage art school that honest critiques are more valuable than being fed bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Yeah, I don't go to art school so that's why I like honest critiques, cause I don't usually get them. I think you're misunderstanding me on the whole chaos/awkward thing. No, my intention was not to create "shitty" artwork. The one that I specifically said was awkward and chaotic in a bad way, the one with the girl from IRC, what I meant was it came out that way BECAUSE it evolved from a chaotic and shitty situation. To me, it has some value, it's like a dot on a timeline. And I don't think it's pure garbage either, which is why I posted it here. What I do realize is that it is not a masterpiece. But I don't think it's garbage. And yeah, there was probably some bevel in there, I think on the flowers. Maybe some eye candy too. The sequence of black and white-ish distortions is clearly eye candy to anyone who used it before (the spiral filter), but whatever. The eye candy filter is there for a reason: for me to use. I'm pretty sure I didn't use crystalize. Just about all of them are from early 2002, done on photoshop 4.0. I can't really say for sure what I used other than what the obvious ones are (ie: motion blur) The only recent ones are the first and second ones I posted, which I did this weekend. Motion blur was used, and I might have done a sharpen or two but that's it. The rest was all contrast/brightness, blur tool, the eraser, and cut and paste. You want an explanation as to what it's about or what it is portraying, the best I can say is that it's supposed to be nightmarish, I do this stuff listening to a lot of music, I usually take a couple of images or designs and just go with it for a couple of hours. That's the end result of a three digital pictures I took of myself on a low exposure to get a blurred effect, the light is from a garage, and you can vaguely see some flowers I took a picture of a couple of months ago. What looks like a goggle eyepiece is actually my ceiling lamp. I think it looks cool. The long black and white one, just riffing on electronic noise, nothing too deep. I like the way the latter images contain depth between the noise and the light source to the left. The picture of the guy with his hand to his head is a picture I took in NYC at the WTC site in 2002, pasted over a picture of people from the gaza strip I grabbed from CNN, pasted over another WTC site picture. There's no message, I called it "headache" and tried to make it seem like, well, the title. But I'll admit it doesn't come off to good in completion. I don't do this a lot, I usually mess around with photoshop two or three times a year. It's a hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I think it's also worth pointing out that a collage, in general, does not have a cohesive theme like a Red vs. Blue picture or a girl in a mini-skirt does. From dictionary.com: col·lage ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-läzh, k-) n. 1. 1. An artistic composition of materials and objects pasted over a surface, often with unifying lines and color. 2. A work, such as a literary piece, composed of both borrowed and original material. 2. The art of creating such compositions. 3. An assemblage of diverse elements: a collage of conflicting memories. I guess I put those up there for someone to make their own ideas as to what they are about. In particular, the IRC-girl (Jenna) pictures are me taking her photos and putting them together to make some sort of idea of what they look like as a whole. If you saw the original photos, maybe it would make more sense, and if I told you the back-story, which I won't here, it would be pretty clear that the two pictures do, indeed, have a point and you would be able to pick up on the emotions I was trying to put across. You could still hate it, but maybe you'd come to a better understanding of what it stands for instead of seeing it as a jumbled mess of pictures. Which is understandable. I've only showed those two pictures to three or four people before posting them here, and those two I did in early 2001. They were made for me despite what you think. But I also wanted to post them here to see if they'd get a reaction. Most of the art I do with the idea that other people will hear or see it. The photoshop stuff is more something I do for me, and maybe I'll show it to a couple of friends and that's it. These aren't art-school projects or works that I'm showing in a gallery. This thread was too tempting not to post some of what I've done. I think in a way it contrasts nicely with some of the cleaner, obviously themed pictures that have been posted here so far. Not trying to anally defend my pictures or lecture, though it might come off as that, just trying to give you an idea of what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalist Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00392166f00000200.jpg http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00392166f00000201.jpg to be honest MESTHREE, your stuff is really not that hott, for you to critique others so harshly...your work as well is mediocre... maybe you were just kidding around in photoshop though? or then again it could be the years since you used the program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalist Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 ^^^^^which ever, i still don't understand why you have this superior ego...that your some kind of PhotoShop guru.. i don't consider none of my work garbage, so i posted it up on the thread, wheather it was appealing to others or not.. thanks though for your genuine opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 weak design is weak design no matter what program or medium you're using. mes's critique is on lack of creativity, not lack of technical ability. it's also the same thing i spoke of a page or two back. maybe i'm just a different breed, but i'd rather be knocked down than riding on a load of horseshit. i'd rather someone be brutally honest than blow smoke up my ass. whatever, folks will hear always what they want though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 fuck. by now you would think that I would know that people on here are infinitly stupid but no. Im always a little shocked. Listen. Fatalist: First off. I meant that its been years since i used photoshop like that. I use it all the time. Just in a different way from alot of the stuff on here. I am honest. I can critique anyone I want as harshly as I want. Just like you can. its up to you wether you take it to heart or not. Go for it. critique mine. I can take it believe me. I can aknowledge the weakneses in what I do and not try and cover it up by saying "oh its just an experiement or "oh I just did it for myself" or "just messing arround in photoshop". Dont be a fucking pussy. If you want to get into art or design or illustration you need to start growing a thick skin. I am no kind of photoshop guru. There are so many ways to use that program and I am well aware fo the fact that I know but a fraction of them. I never said my stuff was shit hot. If you wanted me too I could tear my own stuff apart right now worse than any of you would ever be capable of... anyhow... And what are those two things you just posted? honestly....you want me to get into those? you probably don't. But if you do let me know. fermentor: you said: "I guess I put those up there for someone to make their own ideas as to what they are about. In particular, the IRC-girl (Jenna) pictures are me taking her photos and putting them together to make some sort of idea of what they look like as a whole. If you saw the original photos, maybe it would make more sense, and if I told you the back-story, which I won't here, it would be pretty clear that the two pictures do, indeed, have a point and you would be able to pick up on the emotions I was trying to put across. You could still hate it, but maybe you'd come to a better understanding of what it stands for instead of seeing it as a jumbled mess of pictures. Which is understandable." the problem with this is when I look at those.. I get nothing from them. All I see is some poorly executed predictable photoshop filters. Is that what you want people to see when they look at your "art" or "hobby" or "experiment" or whatever excuse you are calling it? Because Im sure thats what any person with any critical eye at all will see. When someone looks at a piece of "art" they should be able to get soemthing from it without any back story. wether it is the message the artist intended or not. If you have to explain the shit out of this stuff for me to get something from it chances are its not that successfull an "experiment" I also dont know why you are quoting the dictionary. I know what a collage is and the dictionary doesnt rationalize anything. Because the dictionary says that a collage doesnt have to be cohesive that makes your work legit? Weak argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 i don't know if you're actually more gully than i am or if it's just different when i read it from someone elses mouth, but damn. ha. i think i'm going soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I have always been this gully. You just forget cause i was away for a while. But now Im back in full effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by MESTHREE@Dec 29 2004, 08:22 PM the problem with this is when I look at those.. I get nothing from them. All I see is some poorly executed predictable photoshop filters. Is that what you want people to see when they look at your "art" or "hobby" or "experiment" or whatever excuse you are calling it? Because Im sure thats what any person with any critical eye at all will see. When someone looks at a piece of "art" they should be able to get soemthing from it without any back story. wether it is the message the artist intended or not. If you have to explain the shit out of this stuff for me to get something from it chances are its not that successfull an "experiment" I also dont know why you are quoting the dictionary. I know what a collage is and the dictionary doesnt rationalize anything. Because the dictionary says that a collage doesnt have to be cohesive that makes your work legit? Weak argument. Quoted post Well it's your problem that all you see is poorly executed photoshop filters. The majority of what I posted contains very few filters except some blur. And yeah, I think I pretty much said that the two Jenna pictures that you are fixated on are failed experiments. If you don't know anything at all about where the pictures I used came from, you wouldn't see it like I see it. Doesn't mean it doesn't hold value of some sort. Those two pictures, at the time they were made, were made for a very small circle of people, not for my teachers and paint-buddies at the art school I never went to. Time has passed, I posted them here, and it's apparent that at least one person doesn't understand them and that's cool. And I have had a fair share of compliments as well as negative criticism. I'm not using the dictionary to argue for the legitemacy of my artwork. It's legit. I made it, spent time on it, it exists. It is legit, whether you happen to like it or not. Pictures of clowns are legitimate, even though they almost always suck. The arguement I was making was to negate the statement that it is weak because the theme is not apparent. The theme is not supposed to be apparent. You don't have to like anything on here, art by it's nature is never universally appreciated, it wouldn't be art. I like criticism, if you want to tell me something I made is garbage, that's great. Saying it's just a bunch of filters, however, is like saying a painting is just a bunch of chemicals. And there is a concept of design, I think that much is obvious. Back up your criticism with statements that are more complex then "I don't understand it, it doesn't have a message to me" or "it's just a bunch of filters" and I'll hear that and appreciate it more. But when you call me stupid, that's when I write you off as just another jaded art school bitch, and I've seen hundreds of people just like you so I have no problem accepting one more into the mix. Stick with your peer groups and review boards if you don't want to deal with the people here trying to have a conversation with you. And I, for one, am glad that not everyone who makes artwork uses a paintbucket with layers over a picture of some douchebag in a miniskirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 douchebag usually refers to a dude. you should have said whore. now your joke is totally shot. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Fuck. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 haha fermentor: Sorry I wasnt directing that stupid comment towards you. Im actually impressed that you are willing to hear criticisms at all because many arent. First of. youre right it is partially my problem that I dont get what you are trying to say... but its also your problem. Art is about self expression and if your self expression, If what you are trying to express is not comming across then it is your problem as an artist. I mean, If you are going to type up and hand out an info sheet with your stuff even if you are just showing it to your inner circle of friends then fine.. it makes sense. but to expect anyone else to get the message you are trying to convey is a bit unreasonable. so what did you expect to hear after posting a piece that you knew no one was going to understand on 12oz? I am sure what you do has value to you. I am not sayin it is worthless. I am just asking.....is what you are trying to convey being successfully expressed? First of all we will butt heads because I believe all art is created to be shown. I do not believe that any artist creates art just for themselves and yes that is my issue and my belief. I also dont believe that simply by being something becomes legit. again.. my belief. so we can agree to disagee there. What I am saying is... if you have something worthwhile to say.. and I am not saying that you dont. then maybe you have to explore a little more and try a little harder to get it out. I think the technical inadequacies and lack of creativity in those pieces you posted is taking away from whatever good idea you started out with. and not that I think what I create is any more successfull than yours either. Its a learning process that never ends. you said: You don't have to like anything on here, art by it's nature is never universally appreciated, it wouldn't be art. I like criticism, if you want to tell me something I made is garbage, that's great. Saying it's just a bunch of filters, however, is like saying a painting is just a bunch of chemicals. And there is a concept of design, I think that much is obvious. Back up your criticism with statements that are more complex then "I don't understand it, it doesn't have a message to me" or "it's just a bunch of filters" and I'll hear that and appreciate it more. I am not trying to argue about the subjectivity of art. I am talking about successful expression of intent. Sure saying its just a bunch of filters is like saying a painting is just a bunch of chemicals. I feel that if an artist isnt expressing their intent successfully than that is exactly what a painting is. I have seen photoshop work that uses filters and is successful. its all about how you use the tools you have at hand. you also said: But when you call me stupid, that's when I write you off as just another jaded art school bitch, and I've seen hundreds of people just like you so I have no problem accepting one more into the mix. Stick with your peer groups and review boards if you don't want to deal with the people here trying to have a conversation with you. okay I explained the stupid thing and as for being a jaded art school bitch. ... youre right I am. But art school and some real life experience have taught me a few things. One is how to take (or ignor ) criticism and the other is how to dish it out. Please take everything I say with a grain of salt. As you said yourself. I am no authority. Just another opinion floating arround in cyberspace. I can deal with people having conversation such as yourself. What I cant deal with is people who spit out silly excuses and dont back them up or who just repeats things and thinks itll be better the second time arround like fatalist was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well that's better. When I posted it here, I really had no idea what to expect (although I will stand by my opinion that the first two pictures are pretty cool for what they are), and if that's what they seem like to you (not pretty cool) it's good to know and it's also good to know why. I am not planning a career in Photoshop but who knows when it might come in handy for me. Most of the artwork I do falls mainly in the videogame (level design) and music catagory, with a little bit of graffiti as a side dish. The highest regard I hold my Photoshop to would be that maybe some of it would make a good cover for a 7 inch. Maybe it wouldn't. It's good to get criticism on whatever though, because it helps me to clear my head up on whatever I'm working on. I think with most of these pictures (and a few others that I didn't post here), they are from a time when I was starting to figure out just what the hell was going on with my life, and well I don't really know where I'm going with this, let's just say they are like B-Sides, C-Sides, or even outtakes. Rough and relatively undigestable without some idea of where the hell they came from. And even then they still might suck. It's good to take criticism into other areas of my life and art. I don't really get a chance for much outside input and I would rather hear feedback then be ignored or simply waved along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kidlugz Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Hey mes. I just finished painting my bathroom. You wanna come over and critique it? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 yo Ill critique the shit outta that. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 haha, wtf?! mes is back turning this bitch up and down...all forums, including the islands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalist Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 IGNORAMUS: to critique is one thing, being esotistical is another, i respect other opinions, but when you come out with nonsense such as: judging by some of this. I hope some of you are in 10th grade and just learning photoshop. it's a bit ignorant on your part, considering you need work yourself. now back to the regular schedule program. I'm done dealing with absurdity. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kidlugz Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Y"ALL SOME IGNANT MA'FUCKERS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 sorry man. I'll try not to be 'esotistical' anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 just for the record, i still plan to be esoteric. after the 1st of the year, i'll also be working some gustapo like strong-arm tactics into my posts. i know it might sound a bit confusing, but trust me, it's gonna be fire. i'm going to not only make people feel bad about themselves, but i'm also going to get them in a choke up and squeeze the life from their lungs. it's gonna be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 If you can make me shit fire from the brunt of your insults, I will give you props. Not shit fire in a gay way or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by seeking@Dec 29 2004, 09:31 PM just for the record, i still plan to be esoteric. after the 1st of the year, i'll also be working some gustapo like strong-arm tactics into my posts. i know it might sound a bit confusing, but trust me, it's gonna be fire. i'm going to not only make people feel bad about themselves, but i'm also going to get them in a choke up and squeeze the life from their lungs. it's gonna be awesome. Quoted post awesome. hah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Crop from a wallpaper I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 made this a while back... stickers are being made shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirkone Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Sorry about this just practising image posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirkone Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 And one more for reassurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 reassurance of what? that the first image wasn't linked by accident? to verify that you meant to post bad computer generated throw ups? something tells me there's a camera hidden in the plant on my desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirkone Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 No it was to verify that i could post images because i have never done it before on a forum. Doesn't take a genious to work out what i meant by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.