Price points on high-end denim?!

[CLICKCLACKONER]

Here’s a pic of my 10 year old raw low straight RRL’s. It fits like 501stf. It took this long to have it fade this much and countless repairs. I could sleep in these in total comfort. 

 

[glorydays]

1 hour ago, CLICKCLACKONER said:

Here’s a pic of my 10 year old raw low straight RRL’s. It fits like 501stf. It took this long to have it fade this much and countless repairs. I could sleep in these in total comfort. 

 

what was the weight of these?

[CLICKCLACKONER]

I want to say they were 14oz not sure tho

[glorydays]

1 hour ago, CLICKCLACKONER said:

I want to say they were 14oz not sure tho

so that's what i expect for 14 oz denim

damn, cuz ive been wearing the unbranded brand jeans for 21 days and its nothing lmao

[CLICKCLACKONER]

@glorydaysget some APC.  they look dope faded and they fade fairly quickly.

[glorydays]

26 minutes ago, CLICKCLACKONER said:

@glorydaysget some APC.  they look dope faded and they fade fairly quickly.

i read that apc uses a lighter weight denim

 

i'm gonna try them out

[ndv]

On 9/11/2020 at 9:03 PM, glorydays said:

Sooooak

@swif1

@CLICKCLACKONER

@mr.yuck

@glorydays

@swif1

@CLICKCLACKONER

@mr.yuck

 

From what I am learning from you guys as I am lurking this tread.  You guys are very knowledgeable in raw denim, and as i am not I thought maybe I'd share a brand you may or may not  have heard of?

 

Blue Blue Japan.  These guys use a dyeing techique that is basically centuries old all while continuing to use all natural dyes and techniques.  Not very popular here in the states just yet, but you can find retailers who sell the brand.  

 

Anyhow, I have read their raw denim is very well received by raw denim connoisseurs such as your selves, however, the downside though, is the limited numbers they make and also a bit pricey. 

[mr.yuck]

Thanks @ndvim just bumbling through all of this too. Trying to find some denim for work that wont blow apart the first week of wear.

[glorydays]

11 minutes ago, ndv said:

@glorydays

@swif1

@CLICKCLACKONER

@mr.yuck

 

From what I am learning from you guys as I am lurking this tread.  You guys are very knowledgeable in raw denim, and as i am not I thought maybe I'd share a brand you may or may not  have heard of?

 

Blue Blue Japan.  These guys use a dyeing techique that is basically centuries old all while continuing to use all natural dyes and techniques.  Not very popular here in the states just yet, but you can find retailers who sell the brand.  

 

Anyhow, I have read their raw denim is very well received by raw denim connoisseurs such as your selves, however, the downside though, is the limited numbers they make and also a bit pricey. 

oh yea, blue blue japan is up there for a real raw denim experience. 

 

some of the upper priced japanese raw denim can range from 350 - 2000 USD. i believe all of the denim from blue blue japan, big john, samurai, etc...are green cast dyed cotton. otherwise,  they'd be cheaper using red cast dye method. the weave would be not as tight also to give it a softer, more cotton like feel. I think slubby is the term most denim heads would use for looser weave denim. 

 

But those brands are hit and miss for me. I truly dont believe that the 700 dollar samurai or blue blue japan denim is worth the price since i personally wouldn't use them for anything other than "fashion". but i dont know, that just my opinion. There's a reason for them being that expensive, i guess.

 

I personally wouldn't buy it but i really do appreciate the artisanship of the denim.

[CLICKCLACKONER]

@ndvyeah, I just know the basics...not really into it but love double rl stuff.  maybe a decade ago I was geeking out on it a little heavier but even then I wouldn't consider myself a "denim head"

[ndv]

4 minutes ago, glorydays said:

oh yea, blue blue japan is up there for a real raw denim experience. 

 

some of the upper priced japanese raw denim can range from 350 - 2000 USD. i believe all of the denim from blue blue japan, big john, samurai, etc...are green cast dyed cotton. otherwise,  they'd be cheaper using red cast dye method. the weave would be not as tight also to give it a softer, more cotton like feel. I think slubby is the term most denim heads would use for looser weave denim. 

 

But those brands are hit and miss for me. I truly dont believe that the 700 dollar samurai or blue blue japan denim is worth the price since i personally wouldn't use them for anything other than "fashion". but i dont know, that just my opinion. There's a reason for them being that expensive, i guess.

 

I personally wouldn't buy it but i really do appreciate the artisanship of the denim.

I never thought of it on that way.  But then again I am clueless and wouldn't be any the wiser and probably lan toward the more exspensive raw brands think its slightly better quality and some of the fashion pride sense as well.   

 

And for that (my ignorance - f boi attitude)  I am appreciate lurking this thread and learning from you guys.   

 

Speaking of learning.  One thing I am begining to learn (and correct me if I am wrong) is that raw denim lasts longer?  I see the post of clickclack's RRL denim and for as long as you/he had them they look like a highend pair of perfectly faded, washed, worn look jeans. 

 

Really interesting to say the least. 

[ndv]

1 minute ago, CLICKCLACKONER said:

@ndvyeah, I just know the basics...not really into it but love double rl stuff.  maybe a decade ago I was geeking out on it a little heavier but even then I wouldn't consider myself a "denim head"

You know more than I do.  So thats something for sure. 

 

As far as RRL, not cheap, but I like the line.  It reminds me of the rugged go to wear as in i would feel more confident working on the ranch or as a line worker in rrl oppsed to other brands other than calhartt.

 

Its like when I see RRL I think Marlboro Man.  Not in a comical way but more so in the manly ranch hand cowboy way.   Which in my opinion is cool.   Anyhow, speaking g of ralph lauren, I really like his RRL belts.  I think he is producing some of the best buckles for the belt scene so to speak.  

 

But anyhow, i do not want to steer the thread away from the title and ill stop rambling.

[glorydays]

1 minute ago, ndv said:

You know more than I do.  So thats something for sure. 

 

As far as RRL, not cheap, but I like the line.  It reminds me of the rugged go to wear as in i would feel more confident working on the ranch or as a line worker in rrl oppsed to other brands other than calhartt.

 

Its like when I see RRL I think Marlboro Man.  Not in a comical way but more so in the manly ranch hand cowboy way.   Which in my opinion is cool.   Anyhow, speaking g of ralph lauren, I really like his RRL belts.  I think he is producing some of the best buckles for the belt scene so to speak.  

 

But anyhow, i do not want to steer the thread away from the title and ill stop rambling.

Yea, raw denim selvedge lasts longer, especially the cone mill denim from america and the "replica" cone mill shuttle looms in japan.

 

i just dont trust "fashion" denim, like the slubbier looser weaves (i don't think these are the type to last on a farm)

 

but if you want "ranch hand" type denim for hard work then you'll need to pay attention to the "weight" of the denim.

most denim will clock in at 14 oz. which would do for you and won't be difficult to break in

 

tried and true denim heads would go for the upper teens and heavier for a real challenge. at those weights , it's like wearing a jacket on your legs.

[ndv]

I was wondering how the heavier weight would feel for a while.  I imagine chaffing does occur?   Which probably wouldn't be a good thing for rough work that is physically demanding like ranch work or the equivalent.

[glorydays]

4 minutes ago, ndv said:

I was wondering how the heavier weight would feel for a while.  I imagine chaffing does occur?   Which probably wouldn't be a good thing for rough work that is physically demanding like ranch work or the equivalent.

i can see how that would be a legit fear, since non-selvedge everyday bargain bin denim does that.

 

Not selvedge raw denim jeans. These are hand sewn and, in my opinion, cut roomier than basic jeans because theyre not made by machines

 

And raw denim gets softer over time...i dont think that theyd hurt wearing them for hard work

[ndv]

1 minute ago, glorydays said:

i can see how that would be a legit fear, since non-selvedge everyday bargain bin denim does that.

 

Not selvedge raw denim jeans. These are hand sewn and, in my opinion, cut roomier than basic jeans because theyre not made by machines

 

And raw denim gets softer over time...i dont think that theyd hurt wearing them for hard work

I may look into getting a pair, raw denim is really interesting to me. 

[glorydays]

Just now, ndv said:

I may look into getting a pair, raw denim is really interesting to me. 

look up brave star denim

 

i just ordered a pair last week

[ndv]

Will do.   Looks like i will need to soak them like you did, right?  

 

I heard some people prefer to put them on and jump in the shower with warm water and stay under the shower for a good 10mins and hope out and wear the jeans until they are completely dry so the jeans will fit perfectly to their body shape. 

 

Have you tried this @glorydays

[glorydays]

2 hours ago, ndv said:

Will do.   Looks like i will need to soak them like you did, right?  

 

I heard some people prefer to put them on and jump in the shower with warm water and stay under the shower for a good 10mins and hope out and wear the jeans until they are completely dry so the jeans will fit perfectly to their body shape. 

 

Have you tried this @glorydays

There are 2 schools of thought on denim currently. There's the "OG" early 2000s way of thinking, which is a lot of rules and taboos about what to do and what not to do when wearing raw selvedge denim.

 

I'm part of the new set of denim fans that follows whatever they believe is "right" for their own tastes. I still really like the idea of "natural" fades.

So the only real rule i follow is the "initial soak"

 

you can wear them in the shower a la @CLICKCLACKONEROR you can soak them as i did in the bath and just make sure they're submerged.

I talked to one friend who said that they dont like showering with the denim because it stretches out the knees while wet and makes them look like elbow skins.

I kind of agreed with that and went with the submerge in the bath tub method...which is just soak it for 45 minutes in a tub full of tepid water. Then to keep it down, you can either use some bowls or cups and just let them sink on top of the jeans. then hang dry them with S hooks or whatever you have on hand.

 

I believe in the initial soak because i think it "cleans" off the residue and chemicals that are on the denim after rolling around and being touched by different people.

 

now, and this is rare nowadays, there are 2 types of raw selvedge denim:

1) sanforized

2) unsanforized

 

if you buy from brave star, it is def sanforized. meaning, they were "prewashed", therefore, they will not shrink if you soak them.

 

you will rarely find "unsanforized" denim unless you pay 400 dollars and up cuz its so rare

[CLICKCLACKONER]

Levi’s 501 STF is unsanforized and you can get them for cheap, around $50 I think. They are just not selvedge. 

[glorydays]

6 minutes ago, CLICKCLACKONER said:

Levi’s 501 STF is unsanforized and you can get them for cheap, around $50 I think. They are just not selvedge. 

that's alot of work tho for non selvedge, i think

[ndv]

47 minutes ago, glorydays said:

because it stretches out the knees while wet and makes them look like elbow skins.

I am glad you mentioned this because this will bother me and I will end up hating it.

 

The soaking method makes more sense due to the points you made about removing contamination.   Y'all got me thinking how much I wanna spend now. 

[swif1]

  

On 9/13/2020 at 5:22 PM, CLICKCLACKONER said:

@glorydaysget some APC.  they look dope faded and they fade fairly quickly.

Truer words have never been spoken. APC fades dummy fast. Wish I knew about denim repairs back then before I trashed them.

On 9/11/2020 at 9:39 PM, glorydays said:

 

 

 

broooo...i am dying to get my hands on a pair of 3sixteens

Get emmmmmm. Totally forgot to respond heh

On 9/12/2020 at 7:41 PM, CLICKCLACKONER said:

Here’s a pic of my 10 year old raw low straight RRL’s. It fits like 501stf. It took this long to have it fade this much and countless repairs. I could sleep in these in total comfort. 

 

I see you lean you lean your left knee against the door panel too lmao

 

@ndvYo, knee bags are no joke ha. If you're looking to get into denim, definitely check around to see what brand you like. For example, I wish I had another pair of Ande Whall's before he shut it down. I thought it was really cool that it was literally a one-man operation and the jeans are made-to-order all the way from New Zealand with denim from the denim capital, Okayama. He would also do these "special rolls" where he makes 21 pairs from that one roll of denim and dassit mane. His signature were the buffalo wings on the rear pockets. It sucks the pics aren't cached, but here's something: https://www.heddels.com/2012/05/just-released-ande-whall-x-wakefield-hotel/

 

I like how Brave Star has a vertical selvedge going down vertically on the coin pocket whereas Railcar shows selvedge in the fly. It's common to have a "peek-a-boo" selvedge coin pocket as a nod to the days of yore as it's a reminder and appreciation that the jeans were handmade/sewn.

 

Also, 100% cotton raws are the way to go for longevity and are easier to work with when it comes to repairs. This is probably why @mr.yuck's jeans always blow out so fast lmaoooo (9X%cotton, X% stretch). Most of my jeans now have stretch because I want to be able to cross my legs or run up every other step on the stairs. Like @glorydays, I prefer to do a pre-soak before wearing to get all the shrinkage out. I had a pair I wore from the get-go and after I soaked them, the honeycombs (behind the knee) moved up .5"-1". That had me so flustered, I vowed to always pre-soak. Having said that, most denim brands will tell you how much shrinkage to expect but it's almost always up to an inch so take that into consideration when you get them hemmed.

 

Taking them to a tailor for a hem is "ok". However, the roping effect isn't as pretty or apparent as a chainstitch. They also 99.9% do not have a Union Special machine to do a chainstitch. Mass-produced jeans have them since it's probably just a textile running nonstop through an industrial machine.

 

Heavy weight denim is best suited for colder climates/seasons. Naked & Famous drops some fucking ridiculously stupid heavyweight shits that's hilarious to see them capable of such feats. Can't imagine how many needles are replaced to make or repair them would be. Probably have to wear safety glasses/goggles just in case.

 

Get ready for your skin and shoes to turn blue :).

 

[glorydays]

@swif1yoooo, i agree about the union special machines.

I turned into a snob since i learned about the hem chain stitch and what kind of machine you need to make it.

 

I'm just getting impatient with my fades even though i just started wearing my denim now.

 

We should list out some blogs that would be good reads for learning

[CLICKCLACKONER]

1 hour ago, swif1 said:

  

Truer words have never been spoken. APC fades dummy fast. Wish I knew about denim repairs back then before I trashed them.

Get emmmmmm. Totally forgot to respond heh

I see you lean you lean your left knee against the door panel too lmao

 

 

[CLICKCLACKONER]

@swif1haha guilty! That side panel  has a blue tint. 

[swif1]

21 hours ago, glorydays said:

@swif1yoooo, i agree about the union special machines.

I turned into a snob since i learned about the hem chain stitch and what kind of machine you need to make it.

 

I'm just getting impatient with my fades even though i just started wearing my denim now.

 

We should list out some blogs that would be good reads for learning

yeahhhh I thought I had blogs bookmarked, but I guess not 😞

[CLICKCLACKONER]

super future was a pretty good resource but I don't even know if they still around

[glorydays]

11 hours ago, CLICKCLACKONER said:

super future was a pretty good resource but I don't even know if they still around

i used to go there aaaaaaall the time.

there was actually a grip of forums that focused on streetwear that had a raw denim thread back then

 

there was kanyetothe (ktt), niketalk, hypebeast....i forgot the names of the other ones.

 

i think the only forum left that is still really active is styleforum.

i didn't really like that forum too much because it was literally for older dudes who weren't into streetwear, just menswear

[swif1]

Yooo I used to lurk on SuFu heavy and then moved to StyleForum. I still visit that place from time to time, but there's a lot of old money there, no doubt. Enjoyed the sneakerheads and SLP threads. Used to frequent /fa/ a lot pre-athleisure heh.