Hobos, Tramps and Homeless Bums

[shai]

Originally posted by Magic Johnson@Aug 24 2005, 05:45 AM

yo kabar i have a question about hopping frieghts with shipping boxes on em. the stacked boxes. is there room enough to fit in between the boxes or is that just not going to work. my other option is hoppin a coal train and i dont want to get that filthy again if i dont have to.

 

if this is already addressed, just tell me to shut up or something.

 

thanks man,

Magic Johnson

Quoted post

i think i know this one...IM's (intermodal) or DS (doublestack) trains are a lot more common these days due to several factors. i believe the main reason is convenience, since loading a flat car merely requires a container crane, thus saving on labor....at least where i live (near the port of oakland). i'm sure security plays into this somehow, as well. as far as riding them, not many of them have floors, but i've heard of people doing it...i wouldn't try it since there are still plenty of boxcars out there....besides, IM trains are usually hotshots, and you could end up a lot further from where you planned to be. boxcars are common on GM trains (general manifest, i.e, mixed use trains) and tend to be local as well. good luck.

[dinosoidism]

thanks man i appreciate it

[KaBar2]

Magic J---

 

Container well cars are great rides. They are high priority and they run fast. You can see out well, they are easy to board and easy from which to de-train---BUT, they are "hot" because of the high priority. Stack trains, and especially "double-stacks" (D/S) are closely scrutinized by bulls and local cops. If you get caught on a D/S, most likely you are going to jail.

 

The all-double-track "UP Superhighway" that runs between L.A. and Chicago runs scores of stack trains and coal trains a day. It's possible to run from L.A. to Chicago in 3-4 days, with very short c/c stops, maybe 15 minute stops. (Bring planty of water.) The bad thing is that the railroad will perform several "1,000 mile checks," and will be all over these trains. The only good D/S rides are TTX 48 cars. The TTX 53's have NO STEEL DECK, just a design of steel girders to support the container boxes. I guess the best ride would be a D/S TTX 48 with a forty loaded on bottom and a forty-eight up topside. That would give you about eight feet of riding space and also a "porch roof" to give some shade and protection from the weather. BE CAREFUL OF BULLS WATCHING STACK TRAINS, AS WELL AS ALL OTHER HIGH-PRIORITY TRAINS TOO.

[( (MAD_PWD) )]

 

just something i was thinking about and wanted to say is that if someone is what you call homeless because they dont have a job to support themselves, well do u notice most of these people say they cant get a job but thats crap there are jobs everywhere even if its the bare minimum like i was getting at kfc (dont ever work there) its still a job and its not just the money which makes u feel good its the fact u get up every day for work. sorry im missing the point i just had a big night last night and im thinking very deeply into things. anyway being homeless doesnt have to be without a home, u can live in a house but still be homeless if your family or friends dont love and support you.

 

there is enough money in the world for everyone to be able to eat. Why are we having an obesity epedimic when theres people starving to death.

its the same with money but then we have the RICH and POOR

[KaBar2]

MAD PWD---

 

Well, if you read my stuff much, you probably know that I do not believe in "homelessness." "Homelessness" is a state of mind, an artificial construct designed to create an industry of "homeless support" professional employment for people who went to college and got a degree in sociology. The idea of homelessness creates an artificial division between "them," and "us." It marginalizes and objectifies people who live a different life than those of us who have a house or apartment, a job and so forth. It fosters the idea that "homeless" people are different from you and me, which is demonstrably untrue. Most Americans are about three paychecks from being on the street.

 

I believe in the slogan, "Wherever you are, that's home." People who have some self respect treat whatever locale they find themselves in with the same respect that they would an actual home. Unfortunately, far too many people who are "homeless" treat the entire world as their personal toilet and garbage dump. I find this to be inappropriate and offensive.

 

Most people who fly a sign do so because their unmet needs are so great, and their addictions are so debilitating, that they cannot hold down a regular job, not even a KFC job. It's just about impossible to drink a case of beer every day and also work eight hours. So if you see some alcoholic wretch panhandling, don't be too hard on the guy. He's probably majorly addicted to alcohol or some other drug, and has little ability to become unaddicted.

 

You are certainly under no obligation to give panhandlers any money. Unless they have a full set of gear and look like genuine road dogs, I don't give panhandlers anything. But that's just me. If you wish to help support them and enable them to continue drinking and drugging and not living a normal life, feel free to do so. I have absolutely no problem with them getting shit-faced every single day, I just object to PAYING for it. If they want to drink or use dope, I'm cool with it. But I'm not giving them any of my hard-earned money with which to do it.

 

Tramps and hobos are NOT HOMELESS. "Wherever you are, that's Home."

[KaBar2]

I just returned home yesterday from a three-week trip to the National Hobo Convention at Britt, Iowa. I was fortunate to be asked to be Crumb Boss this year, and I got a lot of compliments on the job I did. (The crumb boss is like the supervisor of the field kitchen in the jungle.)

 

The NHC was great this year, one of the best ones I've been to. We were a little worried that the rise in gas prices would really curtail attendance, but even with gasoline at more than $2.50 a gallon, we still had over 85 tramps sign in to the Jungle.

 

The first few days I was there it rained and there was a big storm. We had a "community picnic" that got rained out, but everybody soldiered on under the shelter in the jungle. Almost everybody had wet feet and boots, and we had a big problem with blisters and immersion foot, but after several days it dried up. I had a tarp shelter pitched along the fence next to the Iowa, Chicago & Eastern tracks, but after the weather got so bad, I moved into the Boxcar Hotel. (The city of Britt owns the National Hobo Jungle, which is essentially a city park with a boxcar on display and a big picnic shelter with bathrooms and showers. The boxcar on display is opened up for sleeping quarters during the convention, for those people who arrive with no tent or other shelter.)

 

During the convention, there is free camping in the Jungle, and the Frisco Circle feeds breakfast and dinner, free, cooked by volunteers on the big home-built propane field kitchen stove. We take up donations from the crowd at every meal, which is usually more than adequate to pay for the next meal. People dumpster-dive the local grocery stores for produce. Collinwood Kid brought in 250 pounds of dumpster-dived potatoes from Cleveland this year, of which about 150 pounds were useable. So we had potatoes with every meal! Some people sign up every year, year after year, to cook a particular meal. Joyce and Duane, supported by the Boxcar Boys from Staples, Minnesota, always cook a huge feed on the Friday night of the Convention. This year it was deep-fried Cajun-style turkeys with all the fixin's like Thanksgiving--mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, green bean cassarole, etc., etc.

 

I was on the Color Guard for the Saturday morning hobo memorial service this year. There were two "hobos" on the color guard detail, me (a former Marine) and a guy named Captain Dingo, who served in the Army in Vietnam. The two older guys carrying the U.S. and Iowa State flags were local members of the Britt VFW post. Dingo and I carried M-1 Garand rifles, as did the firing party that fired the salute over the graves. A lot of the hobos buried at the National Hobo Cemetary were WWII veterans. Since we were both trained with the M16 rifle, Dingo and I weren't too familiar with the manual of arms for the M-1 Garand, but we did okay (well, nobody dropped a rifle or anything), and everybody was pleased that the VFW asked some "hobos" to participate (they were a couple of guys short for the detail, so they were actually real happy we agreed to help.) We got along very well with the VFW guys. Dingo is a folk musician that makes his living travelling around to colleges, fairs, flea markets, etc., playing guitar and singing. He served in Vietnam, became very opposed to the war after he got out, and was active in the Vietnam Veterans Against the War back in the late '60s and early '70s, I think. He and Songbird are involved in a big hobo gathering up at La Crosse, Wisconsin every year.

 

The Memorial service was exceptionally poignant this year. Several long-term hobos died within the last few years and I guess the mounting numbers are becoming a little daunting. Last year Spaceman John, Shot Down Wills and several others died. This year New York Greenie passed away. Every year, a few more of the old stalwarts pass away.

 

After the service, the Hobo Council met up on the hill, and some apologies were made and disagreements in the past resolved by the then-current King, Todd "Adman" Waters. (The big push on for Adman's "reign" was trying to find out the identity of the Unknown Hobo, who was found frozen to death in a Canadian Pacific boxcar in Minneapolis on December 16, 2003. We are still searching, trying to identify him so we can tell his family where he is.) The 2005 Queen, Dawn "Sunrise" DiVenti gave a synopsis of the gatherings she attended and the things she accomplished. She was one of the most active Queens we've ever had, and went to a lot of gatherings and spoke to a lot of groups, especially children at schools, about hobos and hobo culture. Among several others, I was asked to be one of the judges for the selection of the new King and Queen.

 

All the candidates were good. They made two-minute speeches at the gazebo at the Municipal Building in "downtown" Britt, while the Chamber of Commerce served up 5,000 gallons of mulligan stew and the crowds cheered.

 

The new King is a long-time rider, "Iron Horse Brad" Villars of Logansport, Indiana; and the new Queen is Lee "Half Track" Burke of Annandale, Minnesota. (She is married to Preacher Steve, and mother of Colleen and Tricia, both in their early teens.)

 

Saturday night we had more music and drumming in the jungle. Graincar George really outdid himself this year. I'm surprised the cops didn't show up. Sunday, people started leaving. Before the big exodus got under way, the " hobo church service" was conducted, and the National Hobo Gospel Singers ("Serenity") sang a number of hymns. They really have beautiful voices, and play guitar, violin and dulcimer. Two of the women in Serenity are related to a very famous hobo, Fishbones, who passed away a number of years ago.

 

We held a "police line" and picked up all the trash and burned it, and started rolling up the jungle. Monday, we finished packing away all the equipment, field stove, pots and pans, etc. Tuesday, Stretch and I said goodbye to the ones that stayed to help and hitch-hiked to Mason City to catch out southbound on the IC & E to Boone, Iowa. It took about a week and a half, but we rode from Mason City to Boone, then to Clinton, then to Kansas City, then to Heavener, OK (which has turned into a major fuel dock/crew-change) then down to Shreveport, LA. In Shreveport, I was out of time, and had to catch a Greyhound to Houston. Stretch headed east, to Mississippi to see Loco Larry.

 

It was a good three weeks, but it is TOO HOT in August to be hopping freight trains.

[shai]

^yeah, that's true...most of the trains i see in my area are 53's, hence my advice. the 48's do have a floor but are hot, hot, HOT! the security in my area is fierce, due to it being adjacent to the fourth largest port in the country. the golden rule is, BE DISCREET, especially in or near major cities/hubs. i've been sweated in emeryville just taking photos recently. my take on this is that, yeah, i might be trespassing, but the workers here don't want to see anyone besides workers or railcops poking around...i do all my loitering on sundays now...there's less train traffic, but there's also less potential to be seen- the turnover in the yard is high, so i rarely see the same car twice.

 

kabar, that sounds like a good little trip. i just saw this thread recently, and was a little surprised to find something like this on 12 oz. i was wondering, how did you find your way here? it's refreshing to hear someone who feels the same way that i do. i feel like a lot of kids just bitch about the system, but they don't realize that they NEED the system...they should try visiting other countries, where not only will The Man keep you down, he'll probably kill you witout a second thought...he'll also take your tax money, and pretend the infrastructure doesn't need their help...it was kind of shocking for me to see shantytowns for the first time- it made me think about how all my privledged "peers" in the states would talk about killing cops, but who would they call if their house was being broken into? that's right...it's really easy to talk about these things in an abstract way, but they always applied their middle class ideology to things like graff or smoking weed, without realizing those were personal choices they made. no one ever put a gun to my head, and said, "smoke this," or "write that there..." i've always taken responsibility for my choices, and accepted the fact that there would be consequences if i was caught. i never displaced accountabiltity to some vague entitity that i felt was oppressing me. the way i see it, is that you can exist as an outlaw in this society, as long as it's not causing hardship to your fellow man. however, this isn't the fifties, and a lot of activities that were okay then are being legislated against, and will most likely get harder as time goes on...i consider myself fairly conservative, more in the libertarian sense as opposed to the dingbats who are "running" the show right now. that means i thing the government should be less involved in the activities of the individual, and more concern with making sure the trains are runnng on time and everyone wants for nothing. unfortunately, we seem to be geting further and further from this vision and closer to a vision that is light years away from what the founding fathers had in mind....just that it's not a king anymore, it's enron, and worldcom, and mobil getting paid.

 

anyway, that's enough....i thought you might like to know that there's at least one person here who shares some of your worldview. sometimes, i get fed up with what i read here- it seems like aggresive ignorance, and a lot of people who mindlessly toe the line as far as prevailing sentiment goes. but, as long as you stick to your guns, and stick around and try to be informative, i'll do the same. thanks.

[KaBar2]

Well, thanks, Shai. I'm sure we will see each other on here in the future. As I'm sure you are aware, my opinions are not always shared by my fellow 12 oz.ers, but that's okay. Everyone has a right to their opinions, even if they seem grossly inappropriate to others. My opinions have changed enormously over the years, and having experienced that has made me reluctant to embrace "feeling absolutely correct." Opinions are often colored by experience, which accounts for the wide variety of opinions on 12 oz.

[shai]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Aug 29 2005, 10:41 AM

Well, thanks, Shai. I'm sure we will see each other on here in the future. As I'm sure you are aware, my opinions are not always shared by my fellow 12 oz.ers, but that's okay. Everyone has a right to their opinions, even if they seem grossly inappropriate to others. My opinions have changed enormously over the years, and having experienced that has made me reluctant to embrace "feeling absolutely correct." Opinions are often colored by experience, which accounts for the wide variety of opinions on 12 oz.

Quoted post

very true. i often think that people want to put me in a box since i post here, but it seems prejudical to do so. i realize a lot of the folks who post here are younger than me, and don't have the ability to see the world the way i do, and that's all well and good. however, thanks to the times that life has handed me my ass on a plate, i don't have the luxury of idealism as much as i used to. a lot of my views come from having been there- i've lived on the streets before- spent three years of my life there. but, while the circumstances that got me there were beyond my control at the time, i took advantage of my freedom, and accepted the liabilities. i got to travel, and learned a lot from it. i agree that there are a lot of people who need help out there, and don't know, or want to know, how to better their situation...and, there's a lot of people who have a victim mentality who seem to think the world owes them something. i feel for the ones who are truly helpless, and, if i can, i'll buy them some food or give them clothes to help them out. however, i also see kids who embrace living on the street as some romantic ideal or something, i don't know...and, they have this strange concept that hanging out on the sidewalk and looking cool entitles them to whatever change i have in my pocket. this is wrong, and, sometimes, if they press the issue, i tell them, "hey, i was once where you were. but, i didn't panhandle, and i never made anyone feel guilty for what was ultimately my choice....so, why are you doing it to me? if you want to get off the streets, i'll tell you how..." and, that usually ends the conversation. that's where i come from on that point- not far from what you've said before.

[lepthebeard]

KaBar, I hope to catch one of your monikers one day. I have been photographing them for over 5 years now and have quite a few. I want to thank you for all of the insight you freely share on here...I wish more people had your morals and values. Although I have never 'rode', my job has given me the oportunity to meet several riders and I always find them to be very genuine folk. You have taught myself and everyone who reads this many lessons, and not just about freight culture. Thank you. When I hit my mid-life crisis (which may not be too long from now), this cat won't be buying a harley....I'll be kissing my ladies goodbye and hitting the rails....

[Magic Johnson]

as to what mad pwd said about homelessness and how more people should be fed. by the definition of homeless in the dictionary, i strive to live that way, i feel that i am more free when not having a specific place to go. being 15 years old, the place i have to return to most often is my house, but i make the choice frequently to stay as far away from that as possible. i bench freights everyday for long hours, i take naps in the forest between coal trains, and i either hop trains or bike to get around. therefore i wish i was in that state in which i had no specific place to go every night but found home where i am. i am not dependant on any other person, sure i enjoy the companmy of other people, but i dont trust them to feed me every night, which in turn, is exactly what you are doing by working for someone. you may say that i might not have all the knowledge as someone else whos lived longer and experienced more, which is true, but i live off of almost no income whatsoever, and i have to find food every day, and then eat dinner with my family, but without that dinner i am sure i would be cool finding food elsewhere.and when i have food i share it, and so on a so forth. its not about food though. in all the train hoppers and bums ive ever met, none of them are half as worried about food as they are about having a good time. and thats what people should do. have a good ol time. im starting to not make sense but i just wanted to say that.

[KaBar2]

Magic J---

 

Please don't take this as criticism, because I'm not criticising you, but I think that you should carefully consider the amount of support you are receiving from your family. Young people who are not yet fully independent often underestimate the degree to which they are dependent upon support from their family, and overestimate their ability to "survive on their own."

 

It is part of the natural progression of things for teenagers to want to be more independent. If it were not, we adults would still have our children living at home when they were thirty. So, obviously, your parents want you to become increasingly independent, but they also want you to become skilled enough and well-educated enough to begin a normal, productive life. Education does not stop once you graduate from high school, or even once you graduate from college. Education is a LIFE-LONG ENDEAVOR. Today we anticipate that we will "re-train" about six or seven times during our lifetimes. So far, I have earned a high-school diploma (just barely), a shipyard welding school certification, a U.S. Army Ordnance & Chemical School certificate for small arms repair, a Marine Corps Marksmanship Training Unit certification as a marksmanship instructor and rifle range coach, another welding school certification and a U.S. Coast Guard x-ray welding test certification, an AS degree as a machinist, and an ADN degree as a nurse. I work as a registered nurse now. I have been licensed to drive forklifts, commercial trucks, motorcycles, regular automobiles and several military vehicles, including the old M-60 tank. I can also operate some bulldozers, backhoes and some other heavy equipment. I do not consider myself to be exceptionally well educated or skilled, just about average.

 

What occurs with tramps and hobos is one of two things. Either the guy is a hobo, and he TRAVELS IN ORDER TO WORK, or he is a tramp and he spends most of his time drinking and laying out. Trainhoppers are essentially just goofing around riding trains for fun.

 

People who are focused on "having a good time" as a way of life are essentially still children or adolescents. They have not progressed or matured into adults (yet) and are unable and often unwilling to accept adult responsibilities and adult authority. They are sort of in "Huck Finn" mode. These are often people who have not matured because they are addicted to or are habitual users of alcohol or drugs, or both. From the time they began using alcohol or drugs, their emotional maturity stopped progressing. If they are now thirty and began drinking heavily at age sixteen, they are essentially a sixteen-year-old in a thirty-year-old body. Their attitude and behavior mimic that of a sixteen-year-old. They often dress like much younger people (usually like they did when they were sixteen, but not always.) They have that sort of silly, puerile, adolescent attitude about life ("PARTY ON, DUDES!" "Rock and roll will never die." "Bros before hoes." Etc.)

Often, these people seem attractive to actual teenagers. To the teens, extremely immature adults seem "cool." They imbody the sort of lifestyle that young teenagers often wish they could live---old enough to drink and enjoy "adult" priveleges, but still acting immaturely, impulsively and often thoughtlessly, like many teenagers do. These immature adults are often attracted to teenagers, especially teenaged girls, because mature adult women are NOT IMPRESSED by an immature, self-centered, adolescent "boy" who is thirty years old. Teenaged girls, however, are young enough, immature enough and gullible enough to find these guys attractive. In my experience, it is usually girls who come from divorced homes, who lack a father figure or positive male role model, and who are starved for adult male attention who fall prey to these guys. The two types of people seem attracted to one another like magnets. It is almost always a DISASTER for the girl, because what she desperately needs and wants is a responsible, steady, mature male in her life who loves her and puts her first above everything else (like a proper father) and what she gets is a selfish, self-centered, immature user who drinks and uses drugs.

 

To someone who is a heavy drinker or drug user, the first and most important priority is the drug. Alcohol comes first, always. The first order of business is to secure enough booze to get through the day. So it may appear that "having a good time" is their priority, but this is only superficially the case. Addicts and habitual users are almost always focused on one thing, and that is their addiction.

 

You are fifteen. You've only got three short years to prepare before you are officially an adult. Study hard in school. Start thinking about where and how you are going to go to college. If you smoke tobacco, stop. If you drink alcohol or use drugs, stop. Try to get a job after school, and save half of every paycheck until you have enough to start an investment program. Invest in mutual funds because that is the easiest and safest investment at first. If you can afford to invest $50 a week, you will be a millionaire by the time you are 65 years old. $50 is not much, but it adds up and adds up. Compound interest and the TIME VALUE OF MONEY will increase the value of your investments as the years go by.

 

Plan long-range--at least in five- to-ten-year increments. Where do you want to be when you are twenty-five years old? Hawaii? Europe? New York? Living on your paid-for 50-foot sailboat? You can do whatever you put your mind to, all you need is the desire, a good plan, and relentless perseverance. Good luck.

[Magic Johnson]

as to the people who "live fast, die younng" every once in a while you find some of them who are much more than drunks. they are human beings that have not yet accpepted the horrible dissapointment of adulthood. i agree with some of the points you have made though. in an instance where a young girl with no mature male influence in her life is stongly attracted to a very dumb old guy, shit can happen that mostly everyone would wish didnt. but i cannot see how that directly relates to some anarchists who dont appreciate the authority that judges and controls their life. i dont know if that made any sense. but yeah, you might be right, but then again, i just think that i can live my life the way i feel, learn from my mistakes, and hopefully things will turn out well. thats just the way i live my life. every experience is a learning experience, and from that, i have learned a whole lot more than i would in some random ass math class. i am going to complete high school, but only because it will kill time faster, and teach me stuff that i could talk about later in life. college...i dont know. but ill surely consider it.

 

thats all i got.

we are obviously very very different people. we will see how my life turns out i suppose.

 

thanks for the time you spend on this site. im sure that mostly everyone appreciates it greatly.

 

and thanks for the good luck

[T h e H o r r o r]

Yesterday afternoon a programme called Hobo Heaven was broadcast on Radio 4 in the UK...

 

In America, every profession has its annual convention. Even the hobo is invited once a year to the Iowa town of Britt for a celebration of his lifestyle. Gerry Anderson reports.

 

Listen here.

 

(by the way the first 90 seconds or so of that stream are NOT from the programme)

 

It was good to hear spoken accounts of hobo life from some of the people Kabar mentioned in his own report from the convention - Captain Dingo, Sunrise and Adman are a few of the interviewees i can remember off the top of my head.

 

Its hard for me to explain to you the context that these shows are written and broadcast in. Radio 4 schedules are filled with little snatches of life from around the world, don't be offended if this half hour documentary barely covers the hobo lifestyle or if it seems like its just dipping into it in a patronising way. Hopefully the cheerfulness of the presenter will convey that they aren't trying to do those things. Anyways give it a listen...

 

Love this thread by the way!

[KaBar2]

I participated in taping a segment for the BBC, along with my friend Frog, which I think was intended for this very show, but the segment we taped was about 15 minutes long. I figure they could not possibly use all the tape they recorded, because they were there for the entire convention, and probably had hours of tape.

 

We actually had a lot of film crews and radio crews show up this year. I did a couple of interviews with Country Music Television too, and so did a lot of other people. They told us it would air on October 28, so you might want to see if you can find it. It was a little bit contrived, but what can one do? It's an artificial situation from the start.

 

There is a faction within the TU63 that is opposed to giving interviews and allowing film crews to film any trainhopping activity. They think that trainhopping will be ruined if it becomes well known and popularized. These guys who feel this way are great guys, and very experienced riders, but I'm not sure I agree with them. I rode trains for almost two weeks straight after Britt and we never saw another single rider the whole time. I just don't think it's in any danger of being trivialized and commodified. As long as there are trains, there will be trainhoppers. If trains become futuristic and robotic, or something like that, trainhoppers will become futuristic and hi-tech too, and figure out some way to circumvent the measures taken to exclude them. A lot of people are worried about the trend towards "unrideable" cars and IM freight. "Unrideable" cars are not completely unrideable, but people who wish to ride IM spine cars, etc. need to figure out new ways to do it--cargo nets and mountaineering harnesses and scanners and so on. Hobos used to ride boxcars on planks placed on the steel rods under the cars. Todays boxcars are very comfortable in comparison. Hobos used to wear two belts--one to hold up their pants and one to strap themselves to the catwalk on the decks of boxcars so they wouldn't fall off if they fell asleep.

 

Things change. We must change with them.

[El Mikinbin De Miami]

Kabar..1st off, thanks for sharing your life experiences..I never even knew any of this existed. Guess I never thought about it. Although I'll do everything in my power to make sure I never end up poor or homeless, the thought of hopping on a train and just riding out thru a few stateswithout worrying about where I'm going seems incredibly interesting. I know that if I'm ever out on the streets or with nowhere to go, that's EXACTLY what I plan to do. RIde out. Either way, I still would like to go on one of these missions. Have you ever been as far south as Florida? South Florida? I was wondering what was the longest trip that you've traveled by rail and what was the purpose? In those days where you just rode 24/7 what was your main objective? And finally, during all your travels, what was the one thing, or even many things (if you like) that you encountered that was really worth seeing, or being at, or even found?

[T h e H o r r o r]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the radio show Kabar. i'll keep an eye out around October 28th for the other programme, and let you know if it turns up online too (fyi the BBC makes the majority of their radio output available online sooner or later, so the chances are good.)

[KaBar2]

El Mikinbin De Miami---

Actually, I deliberately avoided the Deep South back in the day when I was riding full-time. For one thing, it was HOT in the summer. For another thing, the police down south hated hippies for the most part and I probably qualified back then---with long hair and a big beard. To get to Florida, I had to pass through Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama---"No thanks." Now here's the weird part. One of the best hobo gatherings for the last umpteen years has been in small-town Amory, MS. And people ride trains from all over creation to get there. Of course, the railroad bulls still pull people off trains, and these days they write them tickets and sometimes jail them. And of course, small town cops with little else to do sometimes get overly enthusiastic in pursuing and arresting trainhoppers, but all in all, the southern states aren't much worse than anywhere else. This is weird to me. I was used to the beat-you-senseless-with-a-flashlight kind of Southern cops. Today, almost all police officers I encounter are a lot younger than me. They call me "Sir," and ask me if I need any help with my pack, LOL.

 

Read this thread, and buy a copy of Duffy Littlejohn's book "Hopping Freight Trains in America," before you do anything like get on a train. What you really need is an experienced rider to break you in to trainhopping. There are some very experienced trainhoppers in Florida---just keep looking, you'll eventually find somebody. The more you study it, the more you will comprehend what's going on. Try to find a good local destination, maybe 100 miles away. Get maps of both your area and the destination, and the area in between. Then start searching for a crew change on your end. You need to spend some time observing how things work. What you are looking for is the place where the train crews change out. Federal law and union rules limit how long train crews can work. Twelve hours is the maximum, if memory serves, and then the crew "dies on the law" and the railroad has to replace them. The new crew arrives in a white "crew van." (These crew van companies are independent contractors and the drivers aren't paid much. A twenty dollar bill or a twelve-pack would probably get you all the information he knows about local crew changes. You might ask the guy "How could I get a job driving for Cimarron Coaches?" Then lead into crew change stuff. Or, you could just follow him around for a while at a good distance, with a pair of binoculars. BE CIRCUMSPECT.)

Sometimes I just take a local map of a city and high-light all the railroads that are marked. Then I follow the rail lines all throughout the city, from one place to another, until I know every yard, every lay-up, every siding. Eventually, you figure out what is going on. Go visit every rail yard in your area. Ask about employment, go into the offices (dress nice) make note of everything you see and hear.

Try to find local MODEL RAILROAD SHOPS. Model railroaders and railfans know just about everything about their local railroad scene. DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE A TRAINHOPPER. Foamers (railfans) are notorious snitches, but boy howdy, they know a lot about it.

 

I'm not sure what my longest trip was. I've crossed the U.S. several times, and Canada once. I hitchhiked in Mexico. I never really thought of each trip as "separate" back then. One hop just led to another, which led to another, and so forth. I rarely road high-priority hotshots, which are fast and go a long way between crew changes, because high-priority trains are also "hot" trains, with lots of attention from the bulls. I preferred "junkers" back then, and I still do. Slow, but no bull activity.

Riding trains non-stop is very hard on you. After a couple of days of hopping continuously, I kind of need a rest, so I welcome a chance to go jungle up somewhere and kick back. Trainhoppers travel on "hobo time." (You get there whenever you get there. Schedules are for people with an agenda. The agenda of most of the tramps I know consists of "Where's the beer store?")

 

I guess the most memorable experience was crossing the Canadian Rockies on a freight train. The scenery is just Un-fucking-believeable. And the tunnels are extremely scarey and LONG.

[EasoeDSF]

You may have covered this Kabar2. I have often wondered how people get through long tunnels without getting choked out by train exhaust. I paint trains and tunnels and have noticed some of these tunnels are god-damned long. I cant imagine a person riding the train could know every tunnel that they are approaching. I would bet a long tunnel could catch someone by surprise. Just something I have wondered about.

[KaBar2]

EasoeDSF---

 

Yes, if you look up the stack (jeez, it is getting kind of long) you'll find a couple of places where we talked about it. The usual way to deal with diesel fumes in a tunnel is to cover your mouth and nose with a couple of bandanas soaked in water from your jug, and then cover your head and face with a heavy jacket, squeeze shut the cuff of the sleeve, and press your face into the armpit opening, so you can breathe air filtered through the cloth.

 

Some of the younger hoppers actually carry double-filter Mine Safety Foundation respirator masks. They look sort of like a gas mask or one of those masks auto body painters and sandblasters use.

 

I have used an M17A1 gas mask, but I don't carry one all the time.

 

Some kind of mask or filter system will keep out most of the suspended diesel fuel particles in the exhaust, but nothing short of an oxygen bottle and mask will protect you from the carbon monoxide. As long as the train keeps rolling, I'd say you're okay, but if it breaks down or stops to idle in the tunnel, you could seriously die. I've heard that if the train stops in a tunnel, people have a tendency to panic and try to get off the train. NEVER GET OFF A TRAIN IN A DARKENED TUNNEL. You can't see shit, it's completely dangerous, and if the train starts to move, you're dead. Even with a flashlight, I wouldn't get off a train in a tunnel. It's like asking to be killed by a train. You are not going to be able to walk out of a jet-black tunnel. Best thing to do is just stay put, and pray. The train will get going again in a minute.

[IHeartFr8s]

Originally posted by Pfffffffffft@Jun 28 2005, 04:12 AM

ahaha..i just got in after a long night...

ill get post those pictures later today..

 

wow..its 5 am..

Quoted post

 

post em up!

[KaBar2]

I'm debating with myself whether or not to let this thread die. With a few more views, it will break 20,000. Is that enough? Should I keep it up? Or should I let it go? How about it, moderators, is it a sticky or is it a dog?

[IHeartFr8s]

I like it...it's pretty interesting to me

[JudgeMathis]

don't let the thread die! it's great stuff to read

[El Mikinbin De Miami]

it needs a new Kabar story

[alongheroicstory]

kabar, the information is not only insightful but enjoyable to read. i found myself more attatched when i heard houston. and i kept reading more and more to try an learn something about the freights down here. Would you be opposed to sharing some information about the yards you mentioned? thx for your time

[KaBar2]

Alongheroicstory---

 

Email me Rsaxon50@hotmail.com and send me a good email address. Let's talk.

 

Originally posted by alongheroicstory@Nov 1 2005, 08:07 PM

kabar, the information is not only insightful but enjoyable to read. i found myself more attatched when i heard houston. and i kept reading more and more to try an learn something about the freights down here. Would you be opposed to sharing some information about the yards you mentioned? thx for your time

Quoted post

[Cracked Ass]

Neither sticky, nor dog...let it ride. :snowman:

[ASER1NE]

Just sticky it, theres worse threads that are ...

[gasfacevictm]

the stories are good and informative.

not that i'm gonna hop a freight anytime in the near future but i like reading about the shit.

plus it's better than the bickering on the threads i usually peruse.