Guest BROWNer Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by Poop Man Bob Hersh is the man. ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Saw Bush on TV today for a minute. He was defending Rumsfeld and asking for more money for Iraq in the same breath. I don't think he understands limits. I expected them to be leaning on prisoners but this is the kind of shit I would expect some third world thugs to be doing. This whole situation is SNAFU, FUBAR and TARFU.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwibxonex Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Re: Yeah, sick Originally posted by KaBar2 Do you guys remember way back when the invasion of Afghanistan started, and I said that any al-Quaida guerrillas captured would talk, one way or another? Do you remember when I said that that flight from Afghanistan to Guantanamo Bay in a C-130, chained to the deck, was a looong flight across the Atlantic? You don't suppose they "lost" any prisoners over the tailgate ramp, do ya? Do you remember when I said that the CIA and Delta Force and the Special Forces were probably smoking al-Quaida guerrillas in cafe's and coffee shops in cities all over the world? I'd say these guys are really fucking sorry they ever fucked with the United States. But at least they are still alive, and if they know what's good for them, they will sing like canaries. And if they won't, I hope they can swim, cause it's a long way back. You guys are always talking about "gangsta this" and "gangsta that." Well THIS is the real deal. Anybody that fucks with us will profoundly regret it. That's REAL gangsta, not some pretend bad ass poseur in a low-rider Buick. You want to see "hard?" This ^^^ is hard. "NO MERCY." Believe it. considering half the people they interrogate have nothing to do with al-qaida..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HESHIANDET Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 cry a river Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwibxonex Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by HESHIANDET cry a river word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 yeah, i'll bet al quaida is real upset with their 'failure'.... the world hates us more than ever, and we have virtually no foreign allies left. anyone willing to wage a guerilla war based on ideals knows that it's not about your life, it's about the life of the movement. throw 100 al quaida soldiers out the back of a plane, they're still 'winning' and we're still losing. i'm constantly amazed at how short sighteded some people are, yet how they can maintain such an air of superiority and infallibility. the only real losers in life are those that think they've learned all their is to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I'm sorely disappointed in this administration. With all these failures I have to wonder how they even stay in power. Then again I don't believe Bush was elected in the first place. Now with these ambiguous electronic voting machines proliferating and with an entirely republican controlled government for the first time in history it looks as though Bush has a strong possibility of reelection! I'm going to vote as a matter of principle but I cannot guaruntee anything beyond that. I cannot believe this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavyLox Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Privatised wars 'need new laws' ---------------------------- By Stephen Evans BBC North America business correspondent ------------------------------------------ The rules are blurred in Iraq in ways never seen before. It might be called the first privatised war of modern times. Do Geneva Conventions protect contractors? One academic study says the ratio of private contractors to US military personnel in the Gulf now is roughly one to ten, ten times the ratio during the 1991 war. In Abu Ghraib prison - where contractors are reported to have run interrogations - that means unclear lines of legal responsibility. Read the full article: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 why exactly are we paying 'mercinaries' and 'contractors' $100,000 each, to do the job of the military? are our soldiers that incompetent? if so, that sure doesn't say good things about our military as a whole. that we have to rely on PRIVATE CITIZENS to guard our MILITARY. villian, what does your average soldier make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by seeking yeah, i'll bet al quaida is real upset with their 'failure'.... the world hates us more than ever, and we have virtually no foreign allies left. anyone willing to wage a guerilla war based on ideals knows that it's not about your life, it's about the life of the movement. throw 100 al quaida soldiers out the back of a plane, they're still 'winning' and we're still losing. i'm constantly amazed at how short sighteded some people are, yet how they can maintain such an air of superiority and infallibility. the only real losers in life are those that think they've learned all their is to know. clear as a diamond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 ok, not to sound defeated... i care, read up on things, have an opinion, BUT sometimes i wonder why. nothing will change. bush will get reelected, rumsfeld will remain, government gets bigger and fatter, and we beat up, humiliate prisoners of war. whats new? nothing. what will change this? nothing. wait, you arent going to tell me to vote are you? are you going to tell me it matters? because after last elections debacle, its obvious it doesnt. dont get me wrong, i did vote, and will, but in the back of my head i cant rationalize why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by Dusty Lipschitz ok, not to sound defeated... i care, read up on things, have an opinion, BUT sometimes i wonder why. nothing will change. bush will get reelected, rumsfeld will remain, government gets bigger and fatter, and we beat up, humiliate prisoners of war. whats new? nothing. what will change this? nothing. wait, you arent going to tell me to vote are you? are you going to tell me it matters? because after last elections debacle, its obvious it doesnt. dont get me wrong, i did vote, and will, but in the back of my head i cant rationalize why... I dunno dusty, being not american i can tell you that kind of apathy is virtual....its a very pathetic stance i would never expect from you...what happens right now has a tremendous effect worldwide, you're the reciever with its pros and cons...the ball is on your court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 cilone, it was kind of a rhetorical question. i mean i know why 'we're' doing it, it's just such an unbelievable load of shit. and it must make the average soldier feel like such a pawn. he's making a fraction of what this civillian is doing, yet he's risking far, far more, and when the shit hits the fan, it's going to fall on his head, not on the civillian. i can imagine you guys must be pretty furious over the whole thing. bush is cutting combat hazard pay, but paying yahoo's over a million dollars a dozen, to break the law. yeah for that. im sure i could go on, but its quitting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Seeking: The majority of the military is e-1 through e-4 so most of us are kids making mcdonalds wages as you can see from the pay scale. edited for anger management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by seeking i mean i know why 'we're' doing it, it's just such an unbelievable load of shit. which are you referring to..the propadanda why, or the real reasons for invading? or both? if it's the latter, that would entail what specifically? (this is just general, to anybody). if anyone could delineate the more believable reasons behind this war, or point me to a decent source of how this benefits the western, and more specifically american way of life, i'd be very grateful.. i've sort of been looking for a real good analysis that completely sidesteps the propaganda reasons, and how this war would/could actually benefit america in stark economic terms..somethin' with some depth..we all know oil has something to do with it, but how exactly does it all translate to the markets and american primacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by BROWNer which are you referring to..the propadanda why, or the real reasons for invading? or both? if it's the latter, that would entail what specifically? (this is just general, to anybody). if anyone could delineate the more believable reasons behind this war, or point me to a decent source of how this benefits the western, and more specifically american way of life, i'd be very grateful.. i've sort of been looking for a real good analysis that completely sidesteps the propaganda reasons, and how this war would/could actually benefit america in stark economic terms..somethin' with some depth..we all know oil has something to do with it, but how exactly does it all translate to the markets and american primacy? I've been finding an unbelievably awesome amount of information at www.globalresearch.ca Check em out if you haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 chussodovsky or whatever seems pretty solid, but that site makes my eyes sore. i will give it another try though.. in other news... something that has bothered me a little bit since this all broke is where did these images leak from? who is the source and what is their motivation? was this specifically a military leak, military intel leak like DIA or something, or a civilian intel leak...? i was just perusing the gnn site..they have a forum that sometimes has interesting threads.. anyhow, there is speculative talk that this could conceivably(*sp?) be an 'intel coup' on the bush gangsters..peruse here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Originally posted by Tesseract I dunno dusty, being not american i can tell you that kind of apathy is virtual....its a very pathetic stance i would never expect from you...what happens right now has a tremendous effect worldwide, you're the reciever with its pros and cons...the ball is on your court i agree wholeheartedly with all you said. like i said, i still read up, vote, and try to do my part, but on the whole, as a citizen of this country, sometimes "doing my part" feels like im just goin thru the motions and has no real effect on what "my" country will do. in the bigger, worldwide picture, i see how the US plays into it, and effects it, and it scares the SHIT out of me, but then i come around to... what can i do? i should hop my lil narrow white ass on AIM more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Originally posted by Dusty Lipschitz what can i do? i should hop my lil narrow white ass on AIM more often. definatelly aim, Besides that, i understand you..however, please believe that people worldwide check whats going on in the states either they like it or not....your voice may not change shit as to how your country deals with shit but it gives hope to us foreigners to know that it exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 villian, it is shit pay, but also you can't forget that all your necessities are paid for, correct? so thats like being a civillian and after having your rent/food/ins paid for, you still have 1200-1600 a month just to waste. that's not bad at all. it's probably the civillian equiv. of making about 2500-3k a month. browner, i was saying i know why we hire the mercinaries, not why we're in the war in the first place. as for that question, i'm more than willing to accept that it's well beyond me, but i have a tendency to believe it's also a whole lot deeper than just iraq's oil. i think its probably part of a larger restructuring of the middle east, with some sort of zionist tie in. whatever the deal is, it's not to free iraq, and i have a sneaking suspicion that it's a whole lot more nefarious than any of us really imagine, or will be able to, until it's all over. and that's not conspiracy theory talking, it's the mirror of history reflecting into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Browner: Yeah that site is not the prettiest, but there's alot of info there. That's a good question. Where did these pics come from? Because it seems that in our society of the spectacle it has more of an influence than pages upon pages of reports. This is what the Majority Report was talking about last night. Red Cross has been reporting these abuses to the military since january. I believe MG Tacuba (sp?) also put this report out in January. There was a lower ranking enlisted person that seems to be getting the most attention though. Hopefully not as a scapegoat. My guess is that killers cannot help but brag about their crimes so they did themselves in. I mean these people look like they enjoy their jobs waaaay too much. I heard that Rumsfeld is trying to ban email now? Seeks: Yeah we get benefits like 3 hots and a cot. It's a great opportunity for losers like myself. It just sucks quite alot. Especially now with all this bullshit going on. I'm just thankful I'm still not over there in that quagmire.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 actually, i think the red cross has been reporting on the abuses for almost a year, or atleast that's what i remember hearing. in jan. rumpsfeld claims we admitted that there had been 'allegations' of abuse, and that we were looking into it. he also said that he did not see the photos till last week, and that the president did not know anything about the abuses, or the photos, until he saw them on 60 minutes, which is either complete shit, or completely insane. the first set of photos (allegedly) came from a soldier who reported the abuses, and i believe through one avenue or another, got the pictures to 60 minutes, which were the first civillians to have copies. the flood of photos now, which i have not seen, but have heard are far worse than the originals, i would assume are probably just people trying to cash in. friends, relatives, photo developing clerks that stole copies for themselves, etc. that's just a complete guess, and maybe there is some underlying plot, but i think my take is just as likely. people are stupid and their desire for 'fame' is stronger than just about anything else. anyone that has a copy of a photo that has not been shown, is going to be sitting there thinking 'wow, i'll bet if i call cbs, i can get 10grand for this'.... also, obviously the soldiers were so brazen about the whole thing, and so careless, that it was like tap dancing on landmines...not a matter of if, just a matter of when. the fact that they didn't even hide it from the red cross, who are the worlds 'watch dogs' for shit like this, is all the proof. i honestly think they just never considered it would get out, or that people would care. i think it will be a shame if the soldiers are the only ones who go down for this. i believe rumpsfeld has already hinted at the fact that there are no plans to put any contractors on trial for it, and you know the higher ups in the military will be safe and sound... crock of shit. a bunch of dumb ass soldiers will get fucked for being dumb, which they deserve, but it wont fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 well apparently it was put out there by Army Spc. Joe Darby.. i think generally speaking it's unlikely this was a formulated press release pr type thing...but........there is/was alot of chatter of current and ex-intel people being very unhappy with the way they were manipulated, shut out, and generally walked all over for the run up, the double blame and the outing of plame..and the photos were encouraged by military intel..why would you encourage photos of this shit, especially with the climate of investigations etcetry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallix Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...d=540&ncid=1480 Video Seems to Show Beheading of American 1 hour, 5 minutes ago CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal. The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit who identified himself as an American from Philadelphia. After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and cutting off his head with a large knife. They then held the head out before the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 It's ridiculous to me to condemn people for exposing the truth. Fact of the matter is they shouldn't have been doing this in the first place, let alone taking photographs of it and showing all their drunken buddies. I find it unlikely that Iraqis didn't know what was going on inside these prisons in the first place. They would have to keep all the prisoners in there for the rest of their lives for that to happen and even that would seem suspicious. Especially since it was reported that 90% of them where picked up by mistake and there are women AND children in there. More importantly this is about right and wrong. Not secrecy and scandal. This is more like a symbol of what they have been experiencing all along. This is an expose of what already is. Hopefully now that we are better informed we can make better decisions. Anyone have any good news from Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamblersGrin Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 what site is it that shows the beheading? anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'm sure the site is down. they propably wernt ready for every news surfer in the world to hit them at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamblersGrin Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 my girls parents are buggin about that. that guy who lost his head about this was there to kill them. shit man, thats war. funny how people only see things one way sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Looks like they are hitting us where it really hurts now, below the economic waistline. Also word of more unrest among Iraq's majority the Shiite. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-05/...ent_1462898.htm one mo gain http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2908767 looks like shit increases exponentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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