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otto dix

come on, thumbs up for america

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i have read a good deal of everyone's opinions surrounding the world trade center bombing and i am a bit alarmed by how naive we are being. everyone is shouting "peace this, peace that!!!" in the same old rhetoric P.C. tone of voice. i have a slightly differnt view on things...

 

we can all agree on one thing...bin ladin must die, and sadly, we know innocents are going to die achieving that...HOWEVER, if my government is going to do what it can so that the innocents are not united states citizens, i thank them. haha, i can already see your faces, hissing at me. selfish? maybe. shit...i will be the first to admit that the united states isnt the angel it is cracked up to be, but its certaintly not the devil either. we can point fingers and talk about poor polotical decisions our leaders have made in the past, but truth be told, we are the greatest and the strongest nation on this earth. on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL this week they are having a program entitled "understanding the enemy", where we "take a look into our enemy's eye and understand why they hate us as much as they do". america is allowing this show to be broadcasted to millions of people across our nation. do i think the show is a bad idea? no,i am sure i will be watching it along with you. i think it will be interesting and i hope we can all learn something from it, but my point is that we are so caught up in calling our government a machine of propaganda , yet they are allowing the discovery channel to play us 'sympathy for the enemy' programs...do you honestly believe the taliban is showing the people of afghanistan the thousands of grieving people in new york city, still looking for their fathers, mothers, childrens, boyfriends, gilfriends, etc? or maybe the piles of innocent carnage? yeah RIGHT!

the say this is going to be a long rocky rode, and being flat dab in the middle of it all is scary as hell. today i went to see the new york skyline for the first time since tuesday and the air was hazy with death. we are american citzens. we have become friends because our government has granted us the permission to be so free. this is not the time or place to betray what has nurtured us so well...and i know our president may not have been our #1 pick, but he is now our president and his intentions, i believe, are true. i think he deseves our support...i know this went no where but it is my attempt to share a lot of feelings and opinions in a few simple words...i am just a proud, grieving american...and we have to stick by each other as americans if we want to win this war and live in peace like i had pictured it would be when i was little. its late, im tired and i dont feel like proof reading, so dont be too mean...love, me

 

[This message has been edited by my sweetheart, the drunk (edited 09-17-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by my sweetheart, the drunk (edited 09-17-2001).]

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I think that jesus was a right on guy and I believe that the arch of the

covanent was actually a mushroon growing chamber and that the early jews

at manna from heaven and those were also mushrooms.

 

intresting no?

 

id rather see innocent people die to protect our country, than more shit like that happen to us, although i dont belive it was all that bad to begin with, alot of americans need a fucking wake up call, and they got it. shit like this isnt all that uncommin in the places where the people that did this come from, so mabye they didnt expect it to start a war, witch i think would be a pitty to have happen. i doubt any war will ever put an end to terrorism, there will always be another wave of violent, hateful people, after we kill off one. sorry about my off topic postings

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I agree completely sweetheart the drunk. This is the first time our generation has been faced with a tragedy like this. My parent's generation had the Vietnam War,the Kennedy Assassination, Martin Luther King Jr's assassination etc... Many of us nowadays were never prepared mentally to handle something like this. I hate to shit on my own generation but we have been sheltered. We live in a time where there were no major wars and in a time of political correctness. So when this shit happened people were caught off guard. I also think that a majority of Americans some sort of military effort against those involved in the WTC disaster's. I do not think peace is going to save America and the world for that matter from terrorism. Even a war will not completely eradicate terrorism but it will get rid of some of the main sponsors of terrorism.

187Osama bin Laden187

http://www.yourphotos.com/users/3693/USFlag.gif'>

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y'know, sometimes i just wish our flag wasnt so butt ugly. i liked it alot better with the smaller circle of stars. can we kick some states out?.. http://www.12ozprophet.com/ubb//wink.gif'>

 

sorry. just trying spread some laughter.

 

[This message has been edited by MUNE (edited 09-17-2001).]

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Goood point My Sweeet the Drunk.... but how exactly is America is gonna get these people in their own country?Fighting terrorist is different then fighting an army/soldiers. Its not like they'll go parading around screaming "i'm a terrorist". And I heard recently that America is planning a ground attack on Afghanistan.So i dont know..

 

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fuckitwhocares

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allowing the discovery channel to show a tv program depicting THEIR beliefs as to why someone MAY do this, is hardly sympathizing with the perpetraitors plight. its further installing in our mind the idea that bin laden IS guilty of this (something our government has not yet admitted) and by telling us 'this is why the muslims hate you' it will further create tension between america and any muslim people.

 

im not saying it shouldnt be on, nor that i wotn watch it. but acting like the fact that its being shown on tv is its own is some great sign of our freedom is ridiculous.

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and in my mind, innocent dead in afghanistan is just as disturbing as innocent dead in america. i dont value our lives anymore simply because i live here and only see them in pictures. i only see my aunts and uncles in pictures, but that doesnt mean i dont care...

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Like Beardo said this whole thing is just too complex.None of us are really gonna make a big impact on how this will go down.Its too diffucult to come to a solution of whats right and what isn't at this point.War or peace both have faults. one thing that is a fact is innocent people will die and even more will die if it doesn't end soon.

 

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fuckitwhocares

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it takes tradgedy to invoke unity in america obviously. how stupid. were we this unified beforehand? NO. last night a car full of thugged out white kids drove by...instead of yelling "hey faggot!" or simply saying "fuck you", they threw me a peace sign. fuck that. this horrible event will not make me feel like being everyones friend and being all unified. another kid yelled to me friday night "WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR FLAG!?!" fuck you guy. patriotic? pffff...idiotic? ummmhmmm. i also cant stand everyone saying "i want revenge" and then "i'm scared of getting drafted." pfff this is stupid. lets just get this shit over with and defeat them. then drop this false unity crap. why do people all of a sudden want to throw some aimless respect at me? oh...cuz there was a horrible tradgedy in america. i does not make sence to me.

 

did i set myself up for violent replies or openminded thoughts? keep it clean.

 

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$$$666MAKROS666$$$

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Originally posted by Kr430n5_666:

it takes tradgedy to invoke unity in america obviously. how stupid. were we this unified beforehand? NO. last night a car full of thugged out white kids drove by...instead of yelling "hey faggot!" or simply saying "fuck you", they threw me a peace sign. fuck that. this horrible event will not make me feel like being everyones friend and being all unified. another kid yelled to me friday night "WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR FLAG!?!" fuck you guy. patriotic? pffff...idiotic? ummmhmmm. i also cant stand everyone saying "i want revenge" and then "i'm scared of getting drafted." pfff this is stupid. lets just get this shit over with and defeat them. then drop this false unity crap. why do people all of a sudden want to throw some aimless respect at me? oh...cuz there was a horrible tradgedy in america. i does not make sence to me.

 

did i set myself up for violent replies or openminded thoughts? keep it clean.

 

 

i always thought you were an idiot and now i am sure of it...i guess it also took a tragedy to have you reply to threads on this board with something other than ripped off quotes from 'fat chicks in party hats'...intellegent.

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Guest bug

you people proboly didn't read this in the other thread, so i'll post it here.

"who's lives do i value more?" is just an irrelevent question. i'd rather compare the amount of suffering:

americans blowing money for extremely cheap gas (relative to the rest of the world) to drive to places that could easily be walked to. brand new clothes made by third world sweat shops to feel important, bla bla bla

VS.

starving, dying, innocent afghans.

 

 

I've been hearing a lot of talk

about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

 

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

 

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

 

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

 

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rat's nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

 

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt,

incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are

millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

 

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too

late. Someone already did all that.

 

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs

wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific

thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by

raping once again the people they've been raping all this time

 

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as

needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through

Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a

world war between Islam and the West.

 

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.

That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the

West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and

millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

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everybody should read this, i am in tears. sounds like the taliban is holding the rest of the civilians hostage. i doubt much of america knows any of this.

 

read the last post by bug.

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Guest bug

god, i wanna puke every time i see people toting their american flags. blind sheep.

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Originally posted by bug:

god, i wanna puke every time i see people toting their american flags. blind sheep.

 

no matter what you feel about the government or the army or capitalism or whatever, there's no way to deny that America is the greatest country on earth, head and shoulders above the rest, the benchmark that others try to achieve, does this knowledge make me blind? or a sheep?

 

 

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2 Can Sam

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Guest bug

totally irrelevant to everyone waving flags in ignorance of what the US has done to the mid east and many other 3rd world countries.

i love my country, hate my government

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dude, you don't know why anybody is waving their flag, much less everybody, and the flag is a symbol of your COUNTRY, not a symbol of your government

 

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2 Can Sam

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Guest bug

no. if our government folded, and we had a new government then the flag would change. the country (people, places, culture) would be the same (generally).

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Originally posted by bug:

no. if our government folded, and we had a new government then the flag would change. the country (people, places, culture) would be the same (generally).

 

oh please, yeah, that's exactly what happened in the USSR... if you think our govt could just cash it in and things wold be generally the same then you are the blind sheep

 

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2 Can Sam

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