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IRAQ IS A DISASTER


TheoHuxtable

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Originally posted by 8onus

first off.

i don't need a god damn history lesson.

 

second. give me facts!!!

what you gave me links to were intitutions and media reports, who bend the truth like a mother fucker,

 

look beyond "msnbc" for once in your life.

go find me facts to back up you opinion which isn't quite clear to begin with.

 

fuck it i'll humor you.

 

1. we dont own those feilds. i raq owns them!

 

and since you dont seem to grasp this i will help.

 

THERE ARE SEPERATE BOARDS WITH IN THE COMMITY FOR THE RECONSTRUCTION, THE OIL BOARD HAS NO US OFFICIALS.

(didn't i already go over this when me and villian we're fighting? :confused: )

 

and since you wanna bring OPEC into this....you should check thier website.

http://www.opec.org/Member_Counrties/Iraq/HOD.htm

 

2. if you watched the press confrence a while ago, congress is passing a bill to GIVE I REPEAT GIVE 84 billion dollars to iraq for thier reconstruction so NO WE WONT BE MAKING THEM PAY FOR IT. and whats left they will be paying from thier oil revenue.

which will be very abundant.

 

3.GET EDUCATED? :lol: don't fuck with a goverment son on a mountain dew binge.

there....now You're educated.

 

Giving the US a clean break from Iraq is a great political move. I wonder who came up with this one? Carl Rove? I guess they must be trying to bring Bush's approval rating up. Especially after all this torture scandal.

So why are these companies (Royal Dutch and Total) bidding on Iraqi oil again?

 

And with the door open to companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp. of Irving, Texas, and Royal Dutch/Shell Group of London, the losers could be the French, Russian and Chinese oil companies that have either signed contracts or negotiated preliminary agreements to drill in Iraq.

 

That the three countries wield veto power in the U.N. Security Council is widely believed by industry experts and U.S. officials to be one reason their companies received favorable treatment in Baghdad, although Hussein's government also has negotiated with companies from at least two dozen other countries.

 

The company with perhaps the most at stake is Paris-based TotalFinaElf, which in recent years negotiated, but never signed, agreements to develop two of Iraq's largest oil fields, Majnoon and Nahr Bin Omar. The contracts, valued at $7 billion, could ultimately double Total's oil reserves and boost its production by 400,000 barrels a day.

 

Total CEO Thierry Desmarest declared last month that he was not about to cede the field to U.S. and British rivals. Desmarest acknowledged that France's opposition to a likely war could make Total's standing in Iraq "more complicated," but he expressed confidence the company could land new contracts if allowed to engage in good-faith negotiations.

 

Well it looks like according to this it's kissy make up time with Frenchy wenchy. And of course we are going to give Royal Dutch/Shell a cut because the British have helped us out with sooooo much. Troops and alleged yellow cake uranium purchases.... I guess some concessions were due to be made. And we are still going to be supervising the Iraqi government. We don't NEED iraqs oil. We just need to make sure it doesn't put us at a disadvantage. And why are you so offensive asshole? I have trouble reading past insults.

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Get a Clue: The U.S. Has complete control of Iraqi Oil revenue..here's evidence:

 

misspellings take all the fire out of an argument

i just can't take you seriously if you can't spell "fields"

 

from FORBES (a BUSINESS magazine, not a POLITICAL one)

 

Financing problems deal another blow to Iraq oil

Reuters, 04.30.04, 8:24 AM ET

 

 

By Khaled Yacoub Oweis

BAGHDAD, April 30 (Reuters) - Iraq has lost the only short-term option to finance oil projects by scrapping a $1.4 billion borrowing plan, raising more doubt about its ability to sustain output, industry insiders said on Friday.

The occupied country has quietly rejected the debt offer from a U.S.-led banking consortium, which involved mortgaging oil exports, as consensus is lacking on how to invite foreign companies and political instability discourages investment.

"It was a good borrowing plan, based on technical needs and lacking the political interference we usually experience in Iraq," a well-connected Western oil executive told Reuters.

"They basically had no other option. Foreign investors will not come and invest in oil field development until there is an energy law they could rely on," he added.

Iraq needs to finance dozens of projects designed to help double production to five million barrels per day in the next five years. The plans include setting up a national oil company to run the sector as a new government works out how to invite foreign investment without compromising national ownership.

Iraq's oil revenue is under U.S. control and will remain so until a "representative" government is in place as stipulated by a U.N. resolution last year. Most of the oil revenue in the 2004 budget was spent on paying government salaries so far.

The oil sector has been facing production problems since the 1990 crippling economic embargo. Postwar looting and sabotage compounded the problem.

Private engineers say problems abound, including more wells becoming unusable from lack of maintenance and power to inject water. Crude oil pumping capacity is also weak.

The postwar oil ministry has unveiled a number of projects, including pipelines and new wells, but none has been implemented due to the absence of financing.

The tenders helped convince international companies to set up operations in Iraq. They now say lack of project funding and worsening security is making Iraq unattractive.

"Our frustration is growing. Oil officials are telling us to wait for a new government to see how these projects will be financed," said one oil services executive.

"The decision we have to make now is whether to pull out from Iraq, after opening here and waiting for a year for nothing," he added.

It remains unclear why the borrowing plan was scrapped after it won support from key politicians, including Ahmad Chalabi, who heads the Governing Council's finance committee

Although the consortium included a U.S. government agency, U.S. oil officials in Baghdad opposed the deal, saying it was too costly.

The plan's supporters said nationalist sentiment against selling state assets and lack of direct U.S. funding left Iraq with little choice except borrowing.

Council member Naseer al-Chaderji said the ministry had not put the borrowing plan to the full council and he was not aware of plans to do so.

The ministry's funding is separate from U.S. oil projects in Iraq. Most of the $2 billion the United States spent so far was for repairing oil infrastructure and importing oil products -- contracts that mostly went to Texas-based Halliburton (nyse: HAL - news - people).

Copyright 2004, Reuters News Service

 

 

.wake up.

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Re: Get a Clue: The U.S. Has complete control of Iraqi Oil revenue..here's evidence:

 

Originally posted by !@#$%-misspellings take all the fire out of an argument i just can't take you seriously if you can't spell "fields"

 

-I have a minor form of dyslexia and a pretty heavy LD that makes it hard for me explain my opinions in simple clear terms. Disregard the misspeling and poor WC and hear what I got to say.

 

:confused:

To 8onus, a history lesson is exactly what you need. The region was under the controll of the Ottomans from 16-20 century. During which time the modern state was formed under a system of patronage that allowed limited self government as long as it stayed in line with the foriegn rulers, who legitimized their power with the overwhelming military. Some of the most revered heros in Iraqi culture were the leaders of the revolutions against the Ottomans, and more recently the British. There is a thin net containing the limitless combination of factions and ideals that make up Iraqi society, and it has kept the region from descednding into the deepest levels of social anarchy. Manipulating this local identity, outside interests have influenced the ties to empower certian groups over others in favor of economic and political gains. A ruling class has kept itself established for almost 600 years, and in order to acheive our (american/british) our economic goals in the region we will continue to use the est. ruling class as a stabalizing force by supporting it's continued prominence in political, social, and economic matters.

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Thanks for clarifying this y'all. I found it unlikely that things would all of a sudden be a bed of roses after june 30th. With what 6anus was posting (I don't know where his info came from) I had thought maybe Bush was trying to buy favor with the UN by honoring negotiations made during the sanctions. But it looks like Halliburton is going to continue soaking up emergency relief funds.

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Originally posted by SWIMS

-I have a minor form of dyslexia and a pretty heavy LD that makes it hard for me explain my opinions in simple clear terms. Disregard the misspeling and poor WC and hear what I got to say.

.

 

ok. point taken..i apologize.

that comment was directed at 8onus, so you know.

 

 

anyway, an excellent book on "the creation of the modern middle east" is

 

A Peace to End All Peace

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0805068848.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg'>

 

good book.

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some other sites on the Mid-East

-www.juancole.com-history prof. @ Michican, collection of articles

-http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com-blog on the subject, w/ many links

-www.dear_raed.blogspot.com-another forum

 

Books

- Said k. Aburish - Saddam Hussein politics of revenge - Chronicles his life in great detail, and explains the political/social climate. Very fact based w/o the heavy anti or pro bias that is found in most biographies.

- Inventing Iraq: The Failure of Nation Building and a History Denied by: Dodge Toby This book compares the present american efforts to the British mandate after WWI.

- Guests of the Sheik: An Ethnography of an Iraqi village by Elizabeth Fernea Woman lived in a rural southern Shiite village during the 50s while her husband did research. She lived entirly with the women and leaned their customs. This book taught me alot about traditional Islam, and the lives the women involved live.

 

-!@#$% are you a chef?

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Josh Marshall drops some knowledge, TPM style:

 

One of the things I've found difficult about writing about Iraq in recent days is imputing some level of seriousness to the arguments of the president and his retainers who continue to press an optimistic view of what's happening in Iraq. From them, on any given day, you can still hear the argument that, notwithstanding some tough days, things are still getting better in Iraq and the key to success is sticking with it.

 

At the same time, I talk to, or have conversations related to me with, various foreign policy, intelligence and military experts, all of whom --- across the political spectrum --- seem to believe that things are about as bleak as they can be. On top of this, they they seem uniform in the belief -- sometimes based on inference, other times based on direct knowledge -- that the White House is fresh out of ideas about what to do, and basically hasn't any idea how to proceed.

 

Either the president knows the situation is that bad or he (and perhaps his advisors too) is just too out of touch to have any idea what's happening. Increasingly, I think that the president is just too small-minded and vainglorious a man to come to grips with the situation.

 

A strong president, a good president, would put his country before his pride and throw himself into saving the situation even if it meant admitting previous mistakes and ditching past policies and advisors. But I don't think this president has the character to do that.

 

Making a clean sweep, firing some of his most compromised advisors, admitting some past mistakes -- not for effect, but so that those mistakes could be more thoroughly and rapidly overcome -- might well doom the president politically. But I doubt there's any question they'd be in the best interests of the country.

 

This president seems either disinclined to or unable to do more than preside over a drift into disaster while putting on a game face.

 

(Kevin Drum has an excellent post today on President Bush as the prototypical bad CEO -- Here's a snippet: "Bush styles himself a 'CEO president,' but the world is full to bursting with CEOs who have goals they would dearly love to attain but who lack either the skill or the fortitude to make them happen. They assign tasks to subordinates without making sure the subordinates are capable of doing them — but then consider the job done anyway because they've "delegated" it. They insist they want a realistic plan, but they're unwilling to do the hard work of creating one — all those market research reports are just a bunch of ivory tower nonsense anyway. They work hard — but only on subjects in their comfort zone.")

 

There's all this talk about what might be the best critique of the president's policies (politically and substantively), what the best alternative policies might be, and so forth. But all of that, I think, misses the point. This president is too compromised by his deceptions, his past lack of accountability and his acquiescence in failed policies, ever to correct the situation. Like C.S. Lewis's metaphor about the road to hell being easy to walk down, but the further walked, harder and harder to turn back upon, this president is just too far gone with misleading the public, covering up and indulging incompetence, and embracing venality ever to make a clean break and start retrieving the situation.

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I got a job last summer as a chef and have been learning while I go to school. Good peoples for the most part, I live in New Orleans now so the late night scedule has led to some interesting conversations.

-see the photos from the prison, fucked up, we (americans) seem to be repeatadly shooting ourselves in the foot. Warplanes bombing mosqes(sp?), prisoners being tortured, re-enstating Ba'athist generals. What the hell are we thinking. The piece below this does alot ion the the form of progressive thought on the subject, but it seems that things will continue on their downward spiroll until a new govt. is voted in.(sp. is all fucked up I just ended my may 5th celebebration.....)

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there are 56 billion reasons why bush would want to report finding chemical weapons, and ZERO reasons why he would not.

so then, even without any information to refute it, common sense dictates that the likelyhood of it being true, is running at very low levels.

 

if bush actually came out with proof that they did infact have a vast network of hidden labs, torture chambers and amo depots, his approval rating would instantly skyrocket. infact, the fact that it took us so long to find, could be spun into some maniacle tale about how intent saddam was on his evil doings. anyone can grow some poppy plants in their backyard and try to make opium, not everyone can dig a whole bunker under their house to create an opium factory, naw'mean.

 

so there, now that that's settled, let's go back to human pyramids and electroclash box dancing.

 

seeks/insha allah

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what's up ya'll

yo check it out they FBI fucked up the Oklahoma city bombing, Terry Nichols was not the only accomplice, we are talking major conspiracy here, the FBI is implicit in it.

 

and anybody heard Rumsfeld talk to Congress today? I wanna see clips, it's that same old shit though, this bush administration,

 

hey, let's just leave let's just die...

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Originally posted by RubbeRBand

what's up ya'll

yo check it out they FBI fucked up the Oklahoma city bombing, Terry Nichols was not the only accomplice, we are talking major conspiracy here, the FBI is implicit in it.

 

and anybody heard Rumsfeld talk to Congress today? I wanna see clips, it's that same old shit though, this bush administration,

 

hey, let's just leave let's just die...

 

From what I heard of Rumsfeld's statement it sounds like he is blaming the people that exposed this. He has no honor.

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I am in Japan so we are 16+ hours ahead. I watched most of it live and his lies were forcing him deeper and deeper. He was sweating and nervous, and it was all broadcast live on all 3 Iraqi television stations. My favorite moment was when he told the comittee he left the files behind that would help him clarify the chain of command. Why didn`t he just say his dog ate it?

I love Americans, I hate American politicians.

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Below is a firsthand sit rep (military for situation report) from the lap top of Marine 1Sgt Bill Skilles while his battalion was involved in last month's siege of Fallujah, Iraq's most hostile city towards coalition forces:

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FALLUJAH

 

first hand Sit Rep from the lap top of 1Sgt Bill Skiles in Fullujah. Echo Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, is in the thick of combat against the bad guys. The 1Sgt speaks of "extreme prejudice and violent action!"

I'm back and here we go..Now for an update.....Currently Co. "E" 2/1 has 40 wounded and 3 KIA's.....wild huh?...mostly small shrapnel and eardrums, but had a Marine lose an arm and 1,a leg ...This place is too messed up to explain...We have been living in the northwest of Fallujah for 3 weeks now....Actually living in some homes we confiscated...across from us about 300 yards is the downtown area of Fallujah...We are shot at every night. We are mortared a lot as well...We always are firing back with our snipers and/or machine guns....It's almost surreal..We could be playing cards..we hear gunshots and booms..we keep playing....no big deal...Today, I have

to tell you about TODAY and our gun battle. We started receiving sniper fire from this Mosque/ tower...then some badguys threw grenades at our pos. on our roofs...Marines got wounded and Marines fought these $%^%$ close in. Frags were thrown and massive 5.56 was used in close prox. Anyway, my main job is causalities evacuation and accountability...So, hearing I have wounded, I jump in my hardened high back with my company corpsman and 4 security guys and rush to the scene...I've never been shot at so much in my life....During the medivac, AK's were firing at us 10 yards away....I would fire my M-16 with one hand while I was running back and forth....OH MY GOD>>> I think Carl Lewis would be proud of my speed getting these boys loaded up.Anyway, 8 wounded today, 1 died....I actually broke down and had the chaplain say a prayer while I hugged this guys head....He was a good Marine.....I am back in the rear tonight to rest my hurt back and rest my %^%$# brain....NEVER have I had so much blood around me....But you know what, PAYBACK is just around the %$#@# corner and I WILL not falter. I WILL get these boys ready to show no mercy and rid this town of this CANCER. Extreme prejudice and violence of action....I really have nothing intelligent to say...Just numb....I take these boys too personal sometimes.....We ARE the purple Heart Company..152 strength, 40 WIA, 3 KIA...1/3 of the company with 5 months to go...H@ll YEAH>>>>> God Bless our Corpsman and our Chaplains...They make a big difference out here....and God Bless Marine Corps fixed wing, Rotary gunships, artillery, mortars, machine guns and Iraqi body bags....

Out for now...

1st Sgt Bill Skiles

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Bomb Kills Head of Iraq Governing Council

 

Bomb Kills Head of Iraq Governing Council

 

11 minutes ago

 

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The head of the Iraqi Governing Council was killed Monday in a car bombing near a U.S. checkpoint in central Baghdad, Iraqi officials said. The killing was the second of a member of the U.S.-appointed council since last year and dealt a blow to U.S. efforts to stabilize Iraq ahead of a handover of sovereignty on June 30.

 

Abdel-Zahraa Othman, also known as Izzadine Saleem, was among four Iraqis killed in the blast, according to Redha Jawad Taki, a member of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a Shiite Muslim organization.

 

As the current council president, a rotating position, he was the highest-ranking Iraqi official killed during the U.S.-run occupation. His death occurred about six weeks before the United States plans to transfer power to Iraqis on June 30 and underscores the risks facing those perceived as owing their positions to the Americans.

 

Saleem, the name he went by most frequently, was a Shiite and leader of the Islamic Dawa Movement in the southern city of Basra. He was a writer, philosopher and political activist, who served as editor of several newspapers and magazines. The position of council head rotates monthly.

 

Six Iraqis and two U.S. soldiers were injured in the bombing near the coalition headquarters, which is called the Green Zone, U.S. Army Col. Mike Murray said. Three cars waiting in line to enter the headquarters were destroyed.

 

Smoke rose from the site of the blast on the west side of the Tigris River. Firefighters and about 10 ambulances raced to the scene.

 

Saleem was in a convoy of five vehicles, and the car carrying the bomb was adjacent to the council chief's car when it exploded, said witness Mohammed Laith. He said Saleem's driver and assistant were among those killed.

 

Coalition officials said they could not confirm Saleem's death, but released a statement that read: "Due to unforeseen and tragic events, the football game scheduled for Monday afternoon between the coalition press officers and Iraqi media will be postponed until further notice."

 

Saleem was the second member of the Governing Council to be assassinated since the group was established last July.

 

Aquila al-Hashimi, one of three women on the 25-member body, was mortally wounded Sept. 20 when gunmen in a pickup truck ambushed her car as she drove near her Baghdad home. She died five days later.

 

Meanwhile, fighting persisted the Shiite heartland in southern Iraq, where American jets bombed militia positions in the city of Nasiriyah early Monday after fighters loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr drove Italian forces out of a base there. Residents said seven fighters were killed in overnight battles.

 

An Italian soldier on Monday died of wounds suffered during an attack on the base of the Carabinieri paramilitary police the day before in Nasiriyah, the Defense Ministry in Rome said.

 

The Italian troops in Nasiriyah have been under attack for three days. At least nine others were injured in the clashes with armed supporters of the al-Sadr, who launched an uprising against the coalition last month and faces an arrest warrant in the killing of a rival moderate cleric last year.

 

The soldier was the 20th Italian to die in Iraq, after a suicide truck bomb in Nasiriyah killed 19 on Nov. 12.

 

Despite the overnight bombing, militiamen were in control of some government buildings in Nasiriyah, and some people were taking advantage of the chaos to loot cars, residents said.

 

The Italian troops evacuated their base on Sunday as it came under repeated attack. Portuguese police were called out to support the Italians, their first action since the force of 128 deployed to Nasiriyah in November, a Portuguese duty officer said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

 

The Italians relocated to the nearby Tallil air base.

 

Also in Nasiriyah, a convoy transporting the Italian official in charge of the city, Barbara Contini, came under attack Sunday as it neared the headquarters of the Coalition Provisional Authority, Perrone said. Two Italian paramilitary police were wounded.

 

There were intermittent blasts and gunfire overnight in Najaf, another southern city where al-Sadr supporters and American forces have fought in recent days. The new U.S.-appointed governor of Najaf, Adnan al-Zurufi, said Monday that unidentified assailants killed his uncle, Kadhim Abbas al-Zurufi.

 

Amid the ongoing violence, the United States is looking to move some of its 37,000 U.S. troops stationed in South Korea to bolster forces in Iraq, South Korean and U.S. officials said.

 

"The U.S. government has told us that it needs to select some U.S. troops in South Korea and send them to Iraq to cope with the worsening situation in Iraq," said Kim Sook, head of the South Korean Foreign Ministry's North American Bureau.

 

A senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said any shift in troops from South Korea would be part of the next rotation of American troops in Iraq, set to begin late this summer.

 

Tapping into the U.S. military force in Korea would be an historic move by the Pentagon, underscoring the degree to which the military is stretched to provide enough forces for Iraq while meeting its other commitments

 

The coalition, which has fought al-Sadr's militiamen in Baghdad and several southern cities in the past week, is struggling to disband the cleric's army and sideline its radical leadership before handing power to a new Iraqi government.

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

So, the new rage among my friends is investing in Iraqi dinars. On eBay.

 

I'm pretty much the only one not particularly convinced of the wisdom of their investments. Thoughts?

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Eh... I dunno really. They are probably going to change all the money cause they don't want Saddams face on it and shit.... So it would become a collectors item I suppose.

As far as the actual value of the money??? Supposedly the economy will be growing so expect inflation.

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so i was gonna be a wise ass and say you misspelled diner, then i thought how dumb it would be to invest in iraqi dinars so i did a lil search.

 

still not sure how to invest in it. but ill find out.

 

 

this is what i found:

 

To suspicious minds, at least one of the reasons for the hostilities in Iraq was the fact that the U.S. dollar has become a second-fiddle currency to the Euro, at least when it comes to oil-producing countries accepting payment for petroleum. A stronger U.S. military presence in the Middle East supposedly would put a stop to that nonsense. But unlike the mid-and-late 1980s and 1990s, when the dollar was the de facto world currency, the dollar seems to have run out of steam.

 

American authorities, not surprisingly, have tried to put the best spin on this turn of events. Iraqis are patriotic, we hear, tending to gravitate toward national pride. Perhaps so, but it would seem that the reasons are deeper and more complex than just Iraqi patriotism. After all, if Iraqis truly believed that the dollar was the better deal for them, they would be more likely to swallow hard and accept the greenback. Devotion to a dead tyrant does not seem to be reason enough for people to risk their life savings.

 

The dinar rose because it still worked to facilitate exchange, and, without a central bank, it was suddenly protected from inflationary pressures. The dollar, meanwhile, was circulating in ever growing quantities, and the Federal Reserve always stands ready to print more.

 

And there's a larger issue too: the dollar's decline in Iraq is a microcosm of a larger but more troubling issue, one that the White House and the Federal Reserve System cannot spin away with its political happy talk or pretend does not exist. Both the U.S. economy and the dollar are in trouble, and their difficulties are intertwined with each other.

taken from: dollar or the dinar

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

By the way, I'm talking about newly minted dinars, not the ones with Saddam on them. Those are worthless now, being traded out of existence by citizens at a 1:1 ratio with the new ones. It kinda seems like that article talks about the fluctuations prior to the new currency, but I'm not sure.... don't know what to make of it.

 

It does however, suggest that shit is a lot more complex than what my friends (and online traders) claim as if it were super simple: The dinar was worth around $3.20 prior to the war, and now stands at about $0.001. When the economy gets back on track, the value should improve, so even if it goes up to a penny's worth, you gain a 1000% profit.

 

There's something unbelievably sketchy about the whole thing, and me not being properly educated in international finances, can't make odds or ends of it... but I'm skeptical.

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

Yeah, but that's if you bought one dinar... roughly $100 is worth 100,000 dinars. An increase up to $0.01 per dinar gets you a thousand bucks.

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Guest BROWNer

Ex-C.I.A. Aides Say Iraq Leader Helped Agency in 90's Attacks

 

By JOEL BRINKLEY

 

WASHINGTON, June 8 "New York Times" -- Iyad Allawi, now the designated prime minister of Iraq, ran an exile organization intent on deposing Saddam Hussein that sent agents into Baghdad in the early 1990's to plant bombs and sabotage government facilities under the direction of the C.I.A., several former intelligence officials say.

 

Dr. Allawi's group, the Iraqi National Accord, used car bombs and other explosive devices smuggled into Baghdad from northern Iraq, the officials said. Evaluations of the effectiveness of the bombing campaign varied, although the former officials interviewed agreed that it never threatened Saddam Hussein's rule._

 

No public records of the bombing campaign exist, and the former officials said their recollections were in many cases sketchy, and in some cases contradictory. They could not even recall exactly when it occurred, though the interviews made it clear it was between 1992 and 1995._

 

The Iraqi government at the time claimed that the bombs, including one it said exploded in a movie theater, resulted in many civilian casualties. But whether the bombings actually killed any civilians could not be confirmed because, as a former C.I.A. official said, the United States had no significant intelligence sources in Iraq then.

 

One former Central Intelligence Agency officer who was based in the region, Robert Baer, recalled that a bombing during that period "blew up a school bus; schoolchildren were killed." Mr. Baer, a critic of the Iraq war, said he did not recall which resistance group might have set off that bomb.

 

Other former intelligence officials said Dr. Allawi's organization was the only resistance group involved in bombings and sabotage at that time._

 

But one former senior intelligence official recalled that "bombs were going off to no great effect."

 

"I don't recall very much killing of anyone," the official said.

 

When Dr. Allawi was picked as interim prime minister last week, he said his first priority would be to improve the security situation by stopping bombings and other insurgent attacks in Iraq — an idea several former officials familiar with his past said they found "ironic."

 

"Send a thief to catch a thief," said Kenneth Pollack, who was an Iran-Iraq military analyst for the C.I.A. during the early 1990's and recalled the sabotage campaign.

 

Dr. Allawi declined to respond to repeated requests for comment, made Monday and Tuesday through his Washington representative, Patrick N. Theros. The former intelligence officials, while confirming C.I.A. involvement in the bombing campaign, would not say how, exactly, the agency had supported it.

 

An American intelligence officer who worked with Dr. Allawi in the early 1990's noted that "no one had any problem with sabotage in Baghdad back then," adding, "I don't think anyone could have known how things would turn out today."

 

Dr. Allawi was a favorite of the C.I.A. and other government agencies 10 years ago, largely because he served as a counterpoint to Ahmad Chalabi, a more prominent exile leader.

 

He "was highly regarded by those involved in Iraqi operations," Samuel R. Berger, who was national security adviser in the Clinton administration, said in an interview. "Unlike Chalabi, he was someone who was trusted by the regional governments. He was less flamboyant, less promotional."

 

The C.I.A. recruited Dr. Allawi in 1992, former intelligence officials said. At that time, the former senior intelligence official said, "what we were doing was dealing with anyone" in the Iraqi opposition "we could get our hands on." Mr. Chalabi began working with the agency in 1991, and the idea, the official added, was to "decrease the proportion of Chalabi's role in what we were doing by finding others to work with."

 

In 1991, Dr. Allawi was associated with a former Iraqi official, Salih Omar Ali al-Tikriti, whom the United States viewed as unsavory. He and Dr. Allawi founded the Iraqi National Accord in 1990. Both were former supporters of the Iraqi government.

 

Some intelligence officials have also suggested that Dr. Allawi, while he was still a member of the ruling Baath Party in the early 1970's, may have spied on Iraqi students studying in London. Mr. Tikriti was said to have supervised public hangings in Baghdad. The former officials said the C.I.A. would not work with Dr. Allawi until he severed his relationship with Mr. Tikriti, which he did in 1992._

 

Several intelligence officials said the agency's broad goal immediately after the Persian Gulf war in 1991 was to recruit opposition leaders who had senior contacts inside Iraq, something Dr. Allawi claimed. The Iraqi National Accord was made up of former senior Iraqi military and political leaders who had fled the country and were said to retain connections to colleagues inside the government.

 

"Iyad had contact with people the agency thought would be useful to us in the future," Mr. Pollack said. "He seemed to have ties to respected Sunni figures that no one else had." The Hussein government was dominated by Sunni Muslims.

 

The bombing and sabotage campaign, the former senior intelligence official said, "was a test more than anything else, to demonstrate capability."

 

Another former intelligence officer who was involved in Iraqi affairs recalled that the bombings "were an option we considered and used." Dr. Allawi's group was used, he added, "because Chalabi never had any sort of internal organization that could carry it out," adding, "We would never have asked him to carry out sabotage."

 

The varied assessments of the bombing campaign's effectiveness are understandable, the former senior intelligence official said, because "I would not attribute to the U.S. sufficient intelligence resources then so that we could perceive if an effective bombing campaign was under way."

 

Dr. Allawi is not believed to have ever spoken in public about the bombing campaign. But one Iraqi National Accord officer did. In 1996, Amneh al-Khadami, who described himself as the chief bomb maker for the Iraqi National Accord and as being based in Sulaimaniya, in northern Iraq, recorded a videotape in which he talked of the bombing campaign and complained that he was being shortchanged money and supplies. Two former intelligence officers confirmed the existence of the videotape._

 

Mr. Khadami said that "we blew up a car, and we were supposed to get $2,000" but got only $1,000, according to an account in the British newspaper The Independent in 1997. The newspaper had obtained a copy of the tape.

 

Mr. Khadami, it added, also said he worried that the C.I.A. might view him as "too much the terrorist."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/09/politics/09ALLA.html

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