IRAQ IS A DISASTER

[Dick Quickwood]

i would like to say that comparing iraq to vietnam or world war two doesn't paint an accurate picture, it's a stretch to call it a full fledged war, also the iraq opposition does not compare to us military, to quote something i vaguely remember hearing on tv, it's like fighting the flintstones.

[T=E=A=S=E]

Originally posted by HESHIANDET

i wanna go all city in faluja

 

:lol:

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

I would like to say that hev is my new 12oz hero

[seeking]

yup, that's why dude is crew.

 

 

seeks/common sense above all else

[metallix]

There Are No Words ...

Radiation in Iraq Equals 250,000 Nagasaki Bombs

by Bob Nichols

www.dissidentvoice.org

March 27, 2004

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a writer I do not have a set of words to describe what 142 Degrees in the shade is like. I've seen 120 D. in Phoenix and 110 D in the spa's sauna I use. One hundred forty-two degrees leaves me speechless. Try to imagine 142 D temperature while wearing a helmet, long sleeve shirt, long pants, a bullet proof vest, boots, and carrying a 70 pound pack.

 

By contrast the Inuit of Alaska and Canada have thirty-seven words to precisely talk about different kinds of snow.

 

So, since the temperature is heating up in Iraq it seemed like a good time to float this story to different Internet sites and news publications. There was one story in 2003 of one 19 year old British soldier whose military job was to work in a British tank. In Iraq. In the summer. Word is, from London, that he forgot to drink enough water and he literally cooked in his tank.

 

But, this story is not about the temperature in Iraq. You can bet, though, the weather will be really important for those Americans unfortunate enough to still be in Iraq this summer.

 

This story is about American weapons built with Uranium components for the business end of things. Just about all American bullets, 120 mm tank shells, missiles, dumb bombs, smart bombs, 500 and 2,000 pound bombs, cruise missiles, and anything else engineered to help our side in the war of us against them has Uranium in it. Lots of Uranium.

 

In the case of a cruise missile, as much as 800 pounds of the stuff. This article is about how much radioactive uranium our guys, representing us, the citizens of the United States, let fly in Iraq. Turns out they used about 4,000,000 pounds of the stuff, give or take. That is a bunch.

 

Now, most people have no idea how much Four Million Pounds of anything is, much less of Uranium Dust (UD), which this stuff turns into when it is shot or exploded. Suffice it to say it is about equal to 1,333 cars that weigh three thousand pounds per car. That is a lot of cars; but, we can imagine what a parking lot with one thousand three hundred and thirty three cars is like. The point is: this was and is an industrial strength operation. It is still going on, too.

 

No sir-ee, putting Four Million Pounds of Radioactive Uranium Dust (RUD) on the ground in Iraq was a definitely "on-purpose" kind of thing. It was not "just an accident." We, the citizens of the United States, through our kids in the Army, did this on purpose.

 

When the uranium bullets, missiles, or bombs hit something or explode most of the radioactive uranium turns instantly to very, very small dust particles, too fine to even see. When US Troopers or Iraqis breathe even a tiny amount into their lungs, as little as One Gram, it is the same as getting an X-Ray every hour for the rest of their shortened life.

 

The uranium cannot be removed, there is no treatment, there is no cure. The uranium will long outlast the Veterans' and the Iraqis' bodies though; for, you see, it lasts virtually forever.

 

But, it gets worse. Seems an Admiral who is the former Chief of the Naval Staff of India wanted to know how much radiation this represented. He also wanted to express the amount in a figure that the world, especially the non American world, could easily understand.

 

The Admiral decided to figure out how many Nagasaki Atom Bombs it would take to deliver the equivalent of the total amount of radiation deployed in Iraq in 2003 in Four Million Pounds of uranium.

 

The Admiral also wanted to figure out how much radiation the United States Military Forces have deployed in the last Five American Wars, the so-called Five Nuclear Wars.

 

That is a simple enough task for somebody like the Naval Chief of Staff for a country that is a member of the Nuclear Club. Using the Nagasaki bomb for the measuring stick is a particularly gruesome twist, though. For those of you in the States who do not know it, the United States Military Forces dropped two nuclear Bombs on Japan at the close of World War II. The whole world remembers that.

 

One Atom Bomb was dropped by Americans on the city of Hiroshima, the other on the city of Nagasaki three days later. About 170,000 people were incinerated immediately. It was a really big deal.

 

It is a measuring stick that plays very well in the rest of the world; but, not very well on Fox News (Fair & Balanced) © or the rest of the Fox-like American media. The Department of Energy still lists the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations as "tests." The admiral released the data months ago at a scientific conference in India. This article is the first report of the data in the United States. It will first be released on the Internet.

 

The admiral in India calculated the number of radioactive atoms in the Nagasaki bomb and compared it with the number in the 4,000,000 pounds of uranium left in Iraq from the 2003 war. Now, believe me, it is a lot more complex than that; but, that is essentially what the experts in India did.

 

How many Nagasaki Nuclear Bombs equal the Radiation loosed in the 2003 Iraq war? Answer: About 250,000 Nuclear Bombs.

 

How many Nagasaki Nuclear Bombs equal the Radiation loosed in the last Five American Nuclear Wars? Answer: About 400,000 Nuclear Bombs.

 

Who would do something like this?

 

We would. The only people in the history of the world to engage in Nuclear Wars are Americans, citizens of the United States. Allegedly, the Germans and Japanese of WWII also wanted to engage in nuclear wars, except the American Military beat them to the draw, so to speak.

 

Respected academic scholars could debate forever whether or not Herr Hitler, Fuhrer of Germany, would have deployed uranium munitions in the Sudetenland if the weapons had been available. Certainly the Germans knew just as much about uranium wars as we did at the time. It seems doubtful that Adolph Hitler would have ordered the use of uranium munitions there because the Sudetenland was so close to the Fatherland, Nazi Germany.

 

An American General named Leslie Groves was in charge of the bomb making operation called The Manhattan Project. In 1943 The War Department knew exactly what uranium bullets and bombs were good for.

 

If the nuclear weapons did not detonate in Japan, the use of uranium bullets and bombs were the fall back position. It was not till Ronald Reagan was President in 1980 did the re-named Defense Department resurrect the deadly radioactive uranium bullets, bombs, and missiles. No wonder his popular nick-name was Ronnie Ray-Guns.

 

The American Military knew the symptoms of radiation poisoning in 1943 too; starting with the irritated sore throat through to an agonizing death from being cooked from the inside out.

 

President Bush promised to invade twelve countries in the 2003 State of the Union speech. I believe the man. For some reason, some misguided Americans do not believe him, or think he was "exaggerating." The rest of the world has every reason to believe him, though.

 

Not to worry, the President has plenty of raw material for radioactive uranium munitions left. There are more than 77,000 Tons stored at the 103 nuclear waste plants and the several Nuclear Weapons Labs in the US. Each one makes another 250 pounds of radioactive material a day for radioactive bullets, bombs, and missiles. Not to put too fine a point on it; but, that is enough for 40.5 more gloriously successful campaigns like the 2003 Nuclear War in Iraq.

 

Every year about this time the Southern winds leave a fine desert sand on the windshields of cars parked outside in Continental Europe and Britain. Soon this sand dust will carry a surprise. Thanks to the Americans. Thanks to us. We did this to the world. And, we wonder why they hate and despise us so.

 

These uranium weapons' indiscriminate killing effect gives a whole new meaning to the age old term: cannon fodder. In Iraq, what goes around, comes around. If not the uranium munitions themselves, the uranium dust will be in the bodies of our returning armed forces, time bombs slowly ticking away the lives of the gullible and the ignorant with their very own internal radiation source, the cannon fodder of the 21st Century American Nuclear Wars.

 

Put your ending to this article next.

 

A lot of people have done everything we can think of to stop these nuclear wars. Even more specifically to stop the use of uranium as a munition and shut down the nuclear power plants. We have tried and failed for years. Why don't you give it a try? Can't hurt anything! Write what steps you would take to turn this situation around. Contact me at: bobnichols@cox.net.

 

Bob Nichols writes in Oklahoma City and is the Editorial writer for DemoOkie.com. Bob Nichols is a contributing writer for LiberalSlant, Democratic Underground, OnlineJournal, AmericaHeldHostage, and other online dot com publications. Mr. Nichols is a frequent contributor to The Oklahoma Observer and other print publications. He lives and works in Oklahoma. He is a member of CASE -- Citizens' Action for Safe Energy, and President of the Carrie Dickerson Foundation. CASE has successfully killed two serious, well funded attempts to build Nuclear Power Plants in Oklahoma and several attempts to site what is now known as the "Yucca Mountain Reactor Dump" in Oklahoma. All these efforts to build nuclear facilities have failed. CASE won every time. Copyright 2004, Bob Nichols. All rights reserved. Permission for reposting is allowed provided the complete text and attribution are kept intact.

[!@#$%]

Two more U.S. soldiers died Sunday, both in northern Iraq. Since the start of the war, 622 U.S. troops have died, 428 of them in hostile fire. Since President Bush announced the end of major combat in Iraq, 313 U.S. troops have been killed in hostile action.

 

Sources: Al-Sadr supporters take over Najaf

U.S. Marines move into Fallujah

Tuesday, April 6, 2004 Posted: 2:11 PM EDT (1811 GMT)

 

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Supporters of maverick Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr controlled government, religious and security buildings in the holy city of Najaf early Tuesday evening, according to a coalition source in southern Iraq.

 

The source said al-Sadr's followers controlled the governor's office, police stations and the Imam Ali mosque, one of Shia Muslim's holiest shrines.

 

Iraqi police were negotiating to regain their stations, the source said.

 

The source also said al-Sadr was busing followers into Najaf from Sadr City in Baghdad and that many members of his outlawed militia, Mehdi's Army, were from surrounding provinces.

 

Business people are closing their shops and either leaving the city or hoarding their wares in their homes, the source said.

 

Late Tuesday, U.S. Marines moved into Fallujah from several directions, coming under heavy fire from insurgents.

 

The move comes the day after U.S. Marines sealed off Fallujah in response to the killing and mutilation of four American civilian security contractors last week.

 

About 1,300 troops from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, along with Iraqi armed forces, set up a cordon around the city Monday, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad. The operation has been dubbed Operation Vigilant Resolve.

 

Seven Marines have been killed since Saturday in the al Anbar province -- where Fallujah is located -- but the coalition has only confirmed one as a direct result of the Fallujah conflict.

 

Tuesday, Abrams tanks and infantry fighting vehicles led the Marine columns across a railway line north of the city into urban areas, where they were fired on by assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades.

 

The tanks and mounted grenade launchers picked off rooftop snipers, destroying at least three houses in the process.

 

Earlier Tuesday, Marines patrolling the northern side of Fallujah came under fire. The Marines sent an Abrams tank and several Humvees to reinforce the patrol, along with helicopters.

 

One Marine was seriously wounded and evacuated to a combat hospital.

 

Also Tuesday, Marines detained six Iraqis carrying explosives near a command post north of Fallujah, a Marine officer said. The officer said the material was intended to make homemade bombs.

 

In Baghdad, firefights continued Tuesday, particularly in the Shiite area of Sadr City. Reports also indicated that Italian troops were battling al-Sadr supporters in Nasiriyah.

 

As the fighting flared, al-Sadr, who sparked the violent clashes between his supporters and U.S. troops, was planning to take refuge in Imam Ali mosque, according to a posting on his Web site.

 

Al-Sadr also called for a general strike, demanding that the coalition pull back its troops from populated areas and release prisoners taken into custody in recent demonstrations.

 

Twelve coalition soldiers -- 11 Americans and a Salvadoran -- and dozens of Iraqis have been killed in three days of battles in Baghdad and Najaf, while firefights have erupted in other cities and towns as well.

 

Seven Marines were killed in the same time period in al Anbar province, west of Baghdad, along with two more soldiers in northern Iraq.

 

Despite the rising death toll, Paul Bremer, the top U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq, said "there is no question we have control over the country."

 

 

...............................

 

the casualties may be 'militarily insignificant'

but if the people of the united states see that our soldiers are dying for a load of bullshit, a mission of vengeance, a war about oil, then maybe the casualties will become politically significant

 

as soon as bush's daughter's or kabar's daughter enters the war, i'll have more support for their actions..

wouldn't that show how commited they are to this 'mission' ??

yeah..

everyone who supports the war should send their children to fight it.

excellent.

[heavyLox]

*****breaking news****

new uprising in al ramadi

 

us military spokes man says there have been significant US KIAs today in ramadi, details are scant... prepare for more.

[Guest]

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=821

 

from the update row:

 

22:20 Updating Iraq warfare: 22:00 Iraqi update: Coalition military compound in Ar Ramadi under fire by Shiite Sadrist militia forces. Significant casualties reported, including US Marines. DEBKAfile adds: This is first time radical Shiites come to aid of Sunni Baathists. Shiite centers present also in Sunni Triangle at Baquba, Balad, Samarra or Al Muqdaryah, from which Sadrist militiamen may have reached Ar Ramadi

 

21:30: Heavy fighting Tuesday night around Sunni Triangle town of Ramadi. US reports significant casualties including US Marines in Ramadi and Fallujah. Fresh fighting flares in Baghdad’s Shiite Sadr City district between US forces and radical Shiite Mehdi Army.

 

Marines backed by tanks, Cobra helicopters and AC-130 “Spectre” aerial gunships engage Sunni guerrillas in fierce fighting in Fallujah. Rumsfeld reports several arrests if men responsible for ambush of four US security guards last week. US have photographs of more targets. City cordoned off and access restricted to reporters.

 

Radical Iraqi Shiite militia lays down demands for ending uprising: coalition troops must withdraw from populated areas including Sunni Fallujah and Baghdad, release prisoners, reopen banned Shiite radical newspaper.

[Guest]

Originally posted by <KEY3>

This is first time radical Shiites come to aid of Sunni Baathists.

 

in case you missed that point.

[adderall]

Originally posted by Weapon X

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v72/Surge/lcpl.jpg'>

 

:lol: :lol:

 

now that image is a keeper!

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by <KEY3>

in case you missed that point.

 

hmmmm

so you mean it seems like the country is banding together against the occupation?

who ever heard of such a thing?

[timemachine]

im not an american. but io follow the news and shit and being a muslim i see that whole quagmier(sic?) over there like this: iraq is one of the oldest countries in the history of the entire world, and i think its kind of pretentious how the US gov't in all of their infinte wisdom and they're long hisotry upon this earth (what, like two-three hundred years?) think that they can tell people how to live their lives according to how americans live theyre lives. in theory, yes trhat would be perfect, except for the fact that islam rules every muslimjs life, and we will live our lives according to the great teachings of Mohammed (PBUH), not the great teachings of Bush.

 

i dunno thats just how i see it

 

 

tk

[Guest]

12 dead

 

i just hope that one day all the people truly responsible

for sending fine young americans to ealry graves are

held accountable for their actions.

 

and I'm not talking about Iraqis.

[Dick Quickwood]

Originally posted by timemachine

live their lives according to how americans live theyre lives. in theory, yes trhat would be perfect, except for the fact that islam rules every muslimjs life, and we will live our lives according to the great teachings of Mohammed (PBUH), not the great teachings of Bush.

 

 

 

 

excellent, now i will be able to come up with something when i want to refute "but look how they treat women, etc"

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by timemachine

im not an american. but io follow the news and shit and being a muslim i see that whole quagmier(sic?) over there like this: iraq is one of the oldest countries in the history of the entire world

 

uuuuhhhhhh

no.

 

Iraq was formed by the allied powers post world war one

the persian and turkish empires had been drawn into the war by the allied and austrian/hungary powers (through lies, corruption, bluffing, ultimatums, etc)

 

the area of the world formerly known as Persia is ancient.

that is the "Cradle of Civilization"

 

if you want to read more about how the middle east was carved into the mess it is today, and how israel was formed

check out:

 

A Peace to End All Peace.

 

excellent book.

[Guest im not witty]

The American "civilian contractors" killed in Falluja Dahr Jamail, The NewStandard, 4 April 2004

 

Amman, Jordan - By now I imagine everyone has been properly inundated with the images of the scorched bodies of the 'American Civilians' (as properly parroted by the corporate media) in Falluja. In case I missed it before departing, I had one last chance to catch it on the countless televisions in JFK airport, then on the front page of the NY Times on the plane.

 

I thought it was interesting, because what accompanied this story was a strange little phenomenon I've seen many times in Iraq. The first bit of news released on the attack referred to the men killed as 'contractors', and even showed an Iraqi man handling the dog tags of one of them, and another man was holding a Department of Defense badge from another of the U.S. fighters the Iraqis had killed. The same report mentioned that a collection of weapons was in one of the vehicles as well.

 

Of course that was the last of that footage I saw. From then on, it was 'Americans killed by Iraqis!', or 'Contractors Killed', over and over ad nauseum.

 

Well, it turns out these 'Americans killed by Iraqis' just happened to be four mercenaries working for a N.C. Security Firm called Blackwater Security Consulting.

 

This subcontractor, along with countless others, is working to provide 'security' in Iraq. Check out their website: because they even provide training for SWAT teams and former special operations personnel.

 

I've been in Falluja when the entire city has been under collective punishment, which occurs nearly everytime someone attacks a U.S. patrol there. People are enraged, and rightly so. So when one of those white, shiny SUV's with the big black antenna drives by with guys with crew cuts in them wearing body armor holding guns (yes, it is THAT obvious and easy to see), what do you think might happen to them?

 

The other reason I bring this up is because of this: Last night I'm going through customs at the airport in Amman, and I find myself standing in line behind five men with crewcuts and their 'handler', a little bit older fellow from Turkey (I saw his passport). The men were all in their late 20s, to late 30s I'd say, and from their discussion had all been in Iraq before.

 

They wouldn't tell me who they were working for, but when they were lugging huge plastic boxes with locks on them off the baggage belt, then went and hopped into their nice, white SUV, it was pretty much a no-brainer.

 

Blackwater Security Consulting won a $35.7 million contract to train over 10,000 soldiers from several states in the U.S. in the art of 'force protection,' according to Mother Jones magazine. They also hire mercenaries from South Africa and other countries as well, and the pay in Iraq is $1,000 per day. Wonder how that makes our soldiers feel, who make barely over that each month?

 

So the residents of Falluja are about to be 'pacified' because some of the resistance fighters there killed what were most likely mercenaries who regularly attack and detain residents of Falluja. The fog of war grows thicker in Iraq, as the privatization contracts continue to be signed.

 

 

 

Dahr Jamail is an independent freelance journalist from Anchorage, Alaska. He came to Iraq to bear witness and report on the effects of the occupation on the Iraqi people because he feels that the US media has, in large part, failed to do so. Jamail is Baghdad correspondent for The NewStandard. You can help Dahr continue his crucial work in Iraq by making donations. For more information or to donate to Dahr, visit http://newstandardnews.net/iraqdispatches. The above text is ©2004 Dahr Jamail and The NewStandard. Reprinting for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited. Permission is readily granted for nonprofit purposes as long as (1) adequate credit is provided, (2) a link back to http://newstandardnews.net/iraqdispatches is prominently posted along with the text and (3) the journalist's bio at the end of the text is kept intact.

[Guest]

In a way yes....

Islam kept science alive durring the Christian Dark Ages.

However because they refuse to have any introspection based on the modern world instead of Muhammeds' techings, they are currently in their own 'dark age'.

 

no offence intended.

[Guest BROWNer]

fucked.

[effyoo]

have you guys seen this: Executive order 13303?

 

i can't really understand all the legalese, but from what i can gather, it protects the oil companies from prosecution when it comes to iraqi oil.

 

*heres a link that explains it all: http://www.earthrights.org/news/eo13303.shtml

 

excerpt:

 

Under this Order, an oil company complicit in human rights violations, or one that causes environmental damage, would be immune from lawsuits. The language of the Executive Order is so broad that it might as well have been written by lawyers for Halliburton, ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco.

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by BROWNer

fucked.

 

Yessir.

 

 

 

Clashes in Iraq Threaten to Undermine Political Process

"We've reached a moment of truth here with both Fallujah and Sadr," said a senior U.S. official involved in Iraq policy, referring to the Shiite Muslim cleric, Moqtada Sadr, whose militia began clashing with the Americans on Sunday. "We have to get both right, or there are serious questions about whether this political transition can go forward."

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

Murdoch's Sky News is reporting that 130 US soldiers have been killed in the uprising. It's not official, so, good God, I hope that's not correct.

[villain]

(B) all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, in which any foreign country or a national thereof has any interest, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons.

 

 

Whoa... that exec order is pretty scary.

 

As far as the Depleted Uranium (DU) in military equipment goes, I was only aware of heavy tank armor (a la abrams) and some types of tank shells having it. I could be wrong but this is all I have been made aware of. And yes we do use tactical nukes... I beleive it was G W Bush who worked out some kind of loophole in the Geneva convention for that one.

 

And as far as our troops dealing with the heat goes, I think it's pretty silly we are essentially using the same equipment (which shows you how cheap the military actually is.) just different colors. We try to stay cool by drinking lots of water, while the natives of the regions dress in layers, using the best insulator which is air in between the loose fitting layers.

 

It is looking like we are more and more unpopular in iraq the longer this drags out. Eventually threats of bombing (which I'm pretty sure would target civilians since there are no hard targets...) would be insufficient to contain the threat and we could see a massive popular uprising which would be yet another terrible mark on this administration and the face of the earth. It wouldn't be so hard to block all ingress and egress to the cities and turn them into killing pits. Our Air Force would be forced to kill our own troops as well. This could get ugly real quick. And bam there goes all our fucking ground forces practically. Then we are wide open for take over. And russia rises again. Haha... maybe I went a little too far on a tangent here...

[villain]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

It's not official, so, good God, I hope that's not correct.

 

 

 

Daaaaaaaaaayyuuuuuuuuuuuuummm........

 

Shit is getting worse faster than I thought.

[Poop Man Bob]

Damn, villian speaketh with knowledge (referring to the post about depleted uranium, etc.) Are you in the military?

[villain]

Yessiree Bob... I'm in the army as a matter of fact.

[villain]

It is hard to imagine the kind of bargaining power iraqis would have if they took our entire army hostage....

[Poop Man Bob]

Most excellent. I might have asked previously, but I often forget who is and who isn't.

 

1) Are you going to have to ship out at any point in the near future?

2) What is the general atmosphere/feeling amongst the soldiers right now where you're at? [mainly regarding the war, obviously.]

[PalestineOne]

well put timemachine, Islam literally translates into peace. Lets join forces my pork and alcohol boycotting brother from another mother.

[KaBar2]

I've been trying to follow the news reports of the fighting in Iraq in between work, chores, etc. The reported 1,000 Marines surrounding Fallujah is peanuts. That's only about a regiment, so it's not the main force. They are probably there to prevent the jihadists from escaping. Within a couple of days, I predict that the Marines will bring in a much larger force of tanks and LAV's and split the city in half, or maybe in thirds. Then they will block the forces in one half, and hammer the shit out of the other half. Once they have eradicated the resistance in the first half, they will bring in fresh troops and hammer the other half.

 

"destroyed a couple of houses"! You gotta be shittin' me. They will probably level much of the entire city.

 

Marines, left to their own devices, are some of the most aggressive combat troops on earth. They do not usually move into an area unless they have fire support from either artillery or naval gunfire, and close air support, either by fixed wing aircraft, helicopter gunships, or both--in great supply. This fact saves a lot of young Marines' lives--if they run into a force larger than themselves, they call in a fire mission and let arty do the heavy lifting.

 

The Middle East lives by a code of vengance that suits Marines right down to the ground. If our enemies kill Americans, the Marine Corps will be more than happy to demonstrate why they have the reputation as America's elite fighting force. Usually, though, interference and meddling by the civilians in the Puzzle Palace keep the Marines from doing their job. However, in the case of Fallujah, I don't think that will be a problem.

 

I served in a National Guard tank unit after I left the Marine Corps. It has been many years, but the only depleted uranium projectiles I am aware of are all anti-armor rounds. The 105mm APDS round (armor-piercing, discarding sabot) was the only DU round I was trained to use. The reason they used DU is because depleted uranium is denser than steel armor plate. High explosive rounds don't do anything to a modern tank. The APDS round is shaped like a big dart, and when it hits an enemy tank, being made out of DU, it smashes right through the hull, instead of bouncing off. Even if it hits at an angle and does bounce off, it strikes with such force that "spalling" occurs inside the enemy tank--shrapnel shatters off the inside of the enemy tank hull, ricochetting around inside, killing or wounding the enemy tank crew.

 

The effectiveness of depleted uranium ADPS rounds can clearly be seen in film of the Gulf War. If our tanks hit the Soviet T-72's (the best tank the Soviets ever made, supposedly a rival to the M-1 Abrams) they went up like a roman candle. The converse was not true. If our tanks were hit, they usually survived it. Sometimes even several hits wouldn't do it.

To say that the DU rounds "turned into dust" is just stupid. Some dust and particles may have been created, but the DU rounds went crashing through solid steel, smashing the holy fuck out of solid cast steel tank hulls a foot thick, causing the T-72 to explode and burn.

 

The other uses for DU projectiles I've heard of are in the rapid-firing "chain guns" on some models of the LAV (like a machine-gun cannon) which are used mainly against enemy armored personnel carriers and light tanks, and in the cannon on the A-10 Warthog aircraft, which is usually employed against enemy tanks.

 

Using depleted uranium projectiles may not be the smartest thing they ever figured out, but they work like a champ. These projectiles are made from depleted reactor rods, or so I was told. Would I fool around with a tank that had been hit with one? Not a chance. Is Iraq littered with thousands of spent DU rounds? Absolutely. It might be a good idea, once the war is over, to pick them all up and dispose of them. Maybe Halliburton will take the contract.

[TheoHuxtable]

Although I hate to see young Americans get sent to their early graves over a Bush-lie, and the fact that I'd hate to see a failed campaign, a part of me wants to see a failure in Iraq. A scenario where U.S. troops are withdrawn in defeat while Iraq is being overtaken by those who resisted the American occupation.

 

Why? So all these ignorant pompous usually-rich Americans who support the war from the comfort of their couch as well as Bush himself can look stupid and those of us with sense can say "see, I told you so, you fucking moron".

 

Why can't we be a nation like Swizerland and just stay out of everybody's business and just live in peace? I believe wars should only be initiated in an act of self-defense. "Pre-emption" is just a Bush term for another way to say "we'll attack anybody we want if we don't like you because we can."

[TheoHuxtable]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

 

Murdoch's Sky News is reporting that 130 US soldiers have been killed in the uprising. It's not official, so, good God, I hope that's not correct. [/b]

 

This was probably incorrect and became inaccurate somewhere down the grapevine.

 

I read that in the recent uprising 130 PEOPLE were killed, 100 being Iraqis and 30 being coalition soldiers. From what I'm seeing on the news about half of those soldiers were U.S. troops and the rest were Spaniards, Brits, Ukranians, Salvadorians, etc...

 

From Yahoo! News:

 

"Coalition forces battled radical Shiite militiamen and Sunni insurgents across Iraq (news - web sites) in a crackdown that has left more than 100 Iraqis and 30 coalition soldiers dead over the past three days. "