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IRAQ IS A DISASTER


TheoHuxtable

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More pictures from the NYTimes:

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide1.jpg'>

RAMADI - Navy medical corpsmen carried a wounded marine to an evacuation helicopter yesterday at their outpost in the Sunni-dominated town.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide2.jpg'>

U.S. marines detained a hooded Iraqi who was put in a pit normally used by car mechanics. Heavy fighting continued in the area.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide3.jpg'>

BAGHDAD - Followers of the radical cleric Moktada al-Sadr stood around the body of an Iraqi killed by Americans during fighting in Sadr City.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide4.jpg'>

Bodies of Iraqis, unable to be buried in cemeteries, were taken to a mosque Wednesday during a Marine offensive in the town of Falluja.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide5.jpg'>

Iraqi men dug through the ruins of a house in Falluja. The town has been the site of pitched battles between insurgents and American marines. American forces called in air support during the fighting, including a missile from a Super Cobra helicopter and a laser-guided bomb from an F-16 fighter jet.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide6.jpg'>

Sunni insurgents guarded the streets of Falluja Wednesday.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/08/international/IRAQ.slide7.jpg'>

A member of a guerrilla group in Baghdad's Sadr City kept watch.

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imagine if that was happening in pittsburg, or cleveland right now....

all those cats standing around in their city, watching it being blown to shit, watching their friends and family members being killed, 120 degree weather...meanwhile we sit here at our desks, on our computers, talking about as if it was some sort of intellectual or philosophical puzzle on the back of a crackjack box. i mean, no matter how much any of use care about what's going on, when i leave my desk and go to taco bell, or to the bakery to get my little strawberry tart, delicious desert item, i'm not thinking about it...i'm thinking about finding parking, and quarters for the meter.

 

just as i wrote that, a coworker came in with a broken crown, so she had to go to the dentist. i was elected to drive her. her whole world was falling apart because if she didnt get it fixed today, she'd have to wait till monday, and she'd have a jacked up tooth all weekend.

meanwhile probably a hundred people will die in iraq today, a thousand will be injured, and i'll be mad that i have to hang out with my girlfriend instead of installing the rear sway bar on my car.

 

i don't know if any of it makes sense, but none of it really matters anyway, so who cares.

 

nihilisticly yours,

seeks

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so the Iraqi resistance has taken to kidnapping now.

 

 

3 japanese hostages have been taken, 2 journalists, 1 aid worker.

 

7 koreans

 

1 briton

 

all in seperate 'nappings

 

 

 

iraqi police stations have been raoded by malitia. whom are now rolling around with iraqi police weapons and equipment, courtesy of the US.

 

Its nice to get shot at by weapons your people have provided.

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Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

The faces of American soldiers who have died in Iraq:

 

http://www.thepoorman.net/images/the_war_president_big.jpg'>

 

This would make for a great propaganda poster to wheat paste. Needs a caption. Something along the lines of Bush being guilty/responsible for the deaths of over 600 men & women of the US armed forces. That's not even counting the contractors, forces from other countries and countless Iraqis.

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you know i look at that last picture of the hooded militant keeping watch over the iraqi streeets and i came to the realization that the people below him in the picture look so used to constantly being watched (whereas before it was saddam) that a masked man on a rooftop with an RPG or an AK does not even phase them. man those people have been through a lot

 

word

 

 

tk

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seeks ..

 

yeah, exactly what i was thinking.

if it was fundamentalist muslims running the world

instead of fundamentalist christians

and iraq invaded the u.s. because they weren't down with the way our leadership rolled..

 

you better believe that'd be me hooded the fuck down in the middle of Pratt st. holding an RPG and ready to defend my home and family with my life.

 

i mean WTF was the government thinking????

 

i saw the "iraqi" version of the news last night on ted koppel or some shit, basically a bunch of local iraqi tv news..

fucking carnage!

and the newscaster had the audacity to suggest that it was improper to refer to the coalition forces as an "occupying army" of course that's what we are!!

 

rumsfeld really should be strung the fuck up for having the gall to believe we would be greeted as liberators..

what a maroon.

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Originally posted by CILONE/SK

Villian, that guy is a coward who let down everyone around him. It really doesn't matter if he thought the war is morally wrong, he still is in the army and needs to do his job. If he had feelings against the war then he should have told someone so that they didn't put him in a leadership postition with people relying on him. He screwed the all. If he went and talked to his commander and/or chaplin, they would never have put him in a leadership postition. They would have chaptered him out or let him file that objector status paperwork. If he filed that paperwork, he could have requested to serve his time in a desk job until his committment was up. But he took the cowards way out and just ran away from his responsibilities and left everyone relying on him screwed. I have been in the Army long enough to know that going awol is fucked up to everyone around you and there are other ways to serve within your beliefs. Cowards are the only ones who run.

 

Are you sure your in the army? Cause it doesn't sound like it to me. Didn't you read in the papers about the marine conscientious objector that was thrown in prison? You could tell your commander but more than likely your commander is going to fuck you over... you could tell your chaplain but more than likely your chaplain ain't going to do jack. I've seen this happen a million times. I can't believe your in the army saying these nicey nice PC things when we all know that's a bunch of bullshit that's just on paper.

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Originally posted by SteveAustin

CILONE...I completely agree. It used to be safe to kinda milk the military for nearly free college fund money. Bottom line is...if they say you go...you go. No amount of bitching or whining will change this. I just thought I'd throw that in there for Tesseract.

 

He seems to understand the military better than cilone...

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Originally posted by seeking

i'm gonna use my completely detached civillian status to side with cilone on the whole AWOL subject.

i know everyone has their own right to chose, and obviously this guy did not believe in the war, but if he had men underneath him, and his awol status put them in any jeopardy of harm, then he made the wrong choice. if you're a foot soldier, or private, or whatever they're called, the 'pawn's' and you take off, that's one thing, but if you have people depending on you with their lives, then even if you don't believe in the war, you have to take care of them until you can get out of it the proper way. the army can not MAKE you fight, and if you believe so strongly that the war is unjust and that you wont fight in it, then anything they do to you should be acceptible to you, be it courtmashal or whatever.

 

 

 

ok, thats all for now.

 

You guys are talking like all his men were lost and crying without big poppa platoon sergeant. The fact of the matter is we are all trained to assume command should the next person up in the change of command disappear or die or go on leave or whatever. The military is constantly changing. With the average time at a duty station with a unit at about 2 or 3 years, things change alot. We are used to change. Or at least we should be.

 

Don't get me wrong... I respect the soldiers who have stuck it out in iraq for whatever reasons. Our choices are not as plain as black and white.

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Originally posted by TheoHuxtable

I'm talking about the thousands of people who chose to be cowards get out of Iraq due to "psychological" reasons or minor so-called "injuries". I read a story about it a few months ago.

 

Look man... I'm at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. The largest military hospital. We serve all branches of the military. I don't know who these thousands of people who are cowards are. Most everyone I've seen has serious, serious problems. People staring off into space, people not talking, people who will kill you if you bump into them, people who will kill you for no reason whatsoever, people spiralling into deep depressions.... Suicides. These are your psyche patients. You would not be saying this if you saw what I see.

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Originally posted by CILONE/SK

I haven't read that much about it, but I can tell you that in my command there are a ton of people not trying to leave, because it is a nondeployable unit.

 

 

NOW I understand....

 

 

I'm assuming you are at a TRADOC post. That's the poster child of the army. Everyone knows the real army is not like that... YOU should know this. I guess you got used to that though.

 

Nothing is ever that simple. This stuff is hurting my head... so is this 9-11 condition stuff...

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I think we are definately at the point where the footage being broadcast home from Iraq really starts to disturb the average american citizen. I mean, the bodies being hung from the bridge is disturbing, but the corpses were charred black, and it still seemed very detached. not human. its enough to rile everyone up, but there is still alot of emotional detachment. those are burnt corpses, but they are not people. but when you see stuff like the footage of the 3 japanese hostages they were showing today, its really fucking scary. that look of sheer terror. the underlying knowledge of everyone who sees it, that those 3 people have next to no chance of avoiding a very painfuly death. this is what breaks through. I'm very affraid of what comes now....

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villian,

i can dig it. my reply was just a statement in general, not exactly dealing with this situation (which i know nothing more than whats been said here). more than anything, i was just giving my perspective on how i look at things, and how i would (hope to) act if put in the same position. i'm a team player, and if that means taking an asswhooping with the team, then so be it. if it kept happening, i might get sick of being punched, and stop hanging out in those situations, but if im there, im going down with them.

 

one thing i find distressing, is that as the whole rest of the world reports about civil unrest, and the entire country basically being unhappy with our occupation of it, fox news will quote some random soldier as saying that things are much better for the people now, and all of a sudden it becomes fact. soldiers are commiting suicide at a ridiculusly alarming rate, there is incredible dissention among troups all over the country, but then one guy says that everyone is really happy to be making a difference, and that over shadows the figures and the facts. people are so fucking blind, its insane.

 

i really wish none of this was happening.

 

seeks/i said with, not 'on'.

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It's the military's own fault if people go AWOL

 

Because that caliber of person should never have been recruited to start with. By using these "college money" type recruiting campaigns, they just guarantee that a bunch of self-centered whiners will be persuaded to enlist. In my opinion, nobody should be permitted to enlist unless they want to BE A SOLDIER. If the main motivation behind the enlistee's action is anything other than a strong desire to serve in the armed forces, there is a very good chance he is going to be worthless in a war.

 

That's not to say that one shouldn't be motivated at all by the pay, or the training, or the benefits (the benefits that attracted me the most were the 30 days paid leave every year, starting from day one of my enlistment, and free medical and dental) but it's like letting someone join the Fire Department, and when a fire happens, the guy says, "Fight fires? Oh, fuck no! I might get burned up! Fuck that, I'm not fighting any fires--I just signed on to stay here in the firehouse and play pinochle, collect my paycheck and my retirement, and wear this cool hat. I don't do no firefighting."

 

The best soldiers in the past were always considered to be the average American draftee. Career soldiers were considered to be lazy and unambitious. Military service did not pay worth shit ($27 a month in WWII) and the benefits were lousy. Draftees, on the other hand, only served during emergencies, had lives to go back to, and wanted to get the war over with as quickly as possible. Any decent man would have been ashamed to dodge the draft. During WWII, they changed a lot of rules, passed new legislation, and during Vietnam they created the "All-Volunteer Army," which I thought was a splendid idea, because I had no intention of volunteering. With student deferments, 4F deferments, Reserve and National Guard deferments (yo, George) and hundreds of various MOS's that were non-combat related, you would have to be either really inept to actually get drafted into the infantry, or deliberately trying to serve as a rifleman, almost.

 

Three million guys served in Vietnam in eleven years of war. A casualty rate of 55,000 out of 3,000,000 is EXTREMELY LOW (1.8%.) Of course, it's 100% if it happens to YOU, but the Vietnam War was a very slow war, casualty-wise. WWII and Korea were much, much more intense.

 

It's easy for an old geezer like me to say "cowboy up!" but I would go to Iraq if they would let me serve with the Marines. I enlisted in the Marine Corps without any obligation to do so (AFTER the Vietnam War was over, of course--I had already "fulfilled my military obligation" by working as a conscientious objector in a hospital) I served in the Marine Reserves, and the National Guard after my USMC discharge, kind of trying to extend my chances of being sent to some conflict somewhere. I tried to get back in during the Gulf War, but they just laughed. "I'm sorry, Mr. Kabar, but you are just too old, sir."

 

My old unit, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines (2/1--pronounced "Two-One"), is fighting outside of Fallujah right now, but even if I had stayed in for twenty years, I would have retired in 1997.

 

No war is a good war, really, but the campaign to topple Saddam Hussein was a hell of a lot more altruistic than the Vietnam War was, in my opinion.

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Guest BROWNer

machismo

 

i'm really amazed some of you guys are throwing around the

word 'coward' about some dude

you've never met, from some fucking crazy ass warzone,

and actually hoping he gets jacked..

 

very interesting that the soldier who stands up for his own constitution gets

crapped on while the soldier who kills gets props.

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Re: machismo

 

Originally posted by BROWNer

very interesting that the soldier who stands up for his own constitution gets

crapped on while the soldier who kills gets props.

 

And why should the soldier who runs from a warzone get props? When he signed the contract he said under oath that he will protect the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic. Then when it's time to fight, he wants to boycott and shit.

 

I'm in the military and I don't support the Iraq war nor our intentions. But when I have a job to do then I have to do it. I'm not going to "sit out" and protest.

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Looks like April has a good chance at breaking the record for being the deadliest month for U.S. troops in Iraq.

 

November 2003 had 82 U.S. military deaths

 

March 2004 had 50 U.S. military deaths

 

It's only April 9th and we're already at around 50 U.S. military deaths. Thanks to the uprising of al-Sadr's Shiite militia in southern Iraq as well as the U.S. retalliation for those mutilated bodies and the invasion of Fallujah and various other Sunni strongholds.

 

We always hear of numbers of coalition deaths -- I was wondering if anyone knew how many Iraqi enemies were killed? Saddam's conventional army at the start of the war, Saddam's Fedayeen militia, various guerilla/insurgent/militia factions, as well as the foreign Muslims who have crossed the borders into Iraq to engage in jihad.

 

And how many Taliban/al Qaeda were killed in Afghanistan.

 

I know it's somewhere in the thousands...

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Nothing short of a complete fuk up.How long untill bush deploys more troops back there or will he wait untill the election is out of the way to try save his ass?Its only going to get worse when the "AMERICAN" voted goverment is put in place early june.One of the most respected clerics is declareing all out upriseing if its not an irai voted goverment which clearly cant be voted in or organised in 2 months.Tip of the ice berg people.No dout.Fuck terrorism,but when do the western media report on collateral damage?Terrorism no?

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Re: machismo

 

Originally posted by BROWNer

i'm really amazed some of you guys are throwing around the

word 'coward' about some dude

you've never met, from some fucking crazy ass warzone,

and actually hoping he gets jacked..

 

very interesting that the soldier who stands up for his own constitution gets

crapped on while the soldier who kills gets props.

 

is it any wonder, when we live in such a violence-hungry society?

 

the so-called 'christian-right' is behind this war..

how hypocritical, from the patrons of a man who said 'turn the other cheek'

 

the [unfounded] rightousness of the united states is apparent everywhere..

 

we bring democracy to every part of the world (except our military and our government)

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4 Italians, 2 Americans taken hostage

ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi insurgents said they had seized four Italians and two Americans on the western outskirts of Baghdad on Friday.

 

A Reuters journalist saw two captive foreigners, said by the insurgents to be Italians, in a mosque in a village in the Abu Ghraib district. One was wounded in the shoulder. Both were weeping.

 

U.S. soldiers in a tank in the area near the village of al-Dhahab al-Abyad said they knew some Americans had been taken hostage, but had no details.

 

"That's why we are sealing off the road," said one soldier.

 

Insurgents told Reuters they had captured four Italians traveling in a four-wheel-drive vehicle with weapons in it. They said they had seized the Americans in a separate attack.

 

They took the journalist to a mosque, surrounded by about 40 fighters with rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles, where they said all the hostages had been taken.

 

The two foreigners could be seen from a distance, but the fighters did not allow them to be filmed.

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Re: Re: machismo

 

Originally posted by TheoHuxtable

When he signed the contract he said under oath that he will protect the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic.

 

Dubya is not exempt because he is our boss.

 

This reminds me of condoleeza rice's testimony. She was acting like they never in their lives expected a domestic attack on the US, even though it's happened several times before. She also tried to say the Presidential Daily Breifing was historical information and not about an immanent threat. So I guess the president gets a history lesson every day from all his advisors instead of the bleeding edge of up to date information... what a crock of shit. I was getting sick watching that.

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