IRAQ IS A DISASTER

[SteveAustin]

shits about to get really bad....leave it to the US to unite the Shiites and Sunnis through there common hatred of us.

 

“You have not seen anything yet,” said Akram, the shopkeeper. “You will see a new style of resistance in the city. Well-organized. Advanced. They will be surprised. They won’t know what to do.”

 

He smiled, but refused to say more, except that the plan would involve children as young as 8 and men as old as 80, drawn from across the district.

 

I don't really like what this seems to be implying.

 

full article

[!@#$%]

we're blasting mosques during prayers.

 

completely fucked.

if that doesn't destroy us in the eyes of iraqis, i don't know what will

[Guest]

Originally posted by !@#$%

if that doesn't destroy us in the eyes of iraqis, i don't know what will

 

motar fire!

 

sorry

[Poop Man Bob]

Some insight.

 

From Talking Points Memo:

Wow, that is a good line, and a very true one too. Courtesy of Atrios, comes this line from Harold Meyerson's column today in the Post ...

The only unequivocally good policy option before the American people is to dump the president who got us into this mess, who had no trouble sending our young people to Iraq but who cannot steel himself to face the Sept. 11 commission alone.

We have backed ourselves into a very narrow and very bleak set of options here. What's astonishing is how blindly the White House seems to have stumbled into it.

 

I don't want to get into a silly conversation about who's 'responsible' for what's happening in the South or who 'caused' it in some deep sense. But we do seem to have triggered it -- by shutting down Sadr's newspaper and arresting his deputy.

 

One might argue that that was a proper strategy. Sometimes a looming crisis needs to be brought to a head. But if that's so, we seem to have done little to prepare for the reaction. Where's the White House's strategy? Where is it now, three days later?

 

All we seem to be hearing are hollow assertions of a vacant will.

 

From the White House's advocates we hear logic puzzles about appeasement in which the fall-out from the president's screw ups become the prime argument for continuing to support them.

 

At the critical moment the president has the toxic mix of the bulldog will of a Winston Churchill and the strategic insights and imagination of a Neville Chamberlain.

 

He has no plan. And will without policy just equals death.

 

The gap between the reality in Iraq and the White House's Potemkin village version of it is closing rapidly, like an upper and lower jaw about to shut tight. And the White House's penchant for denial is being squeezed between the two.

[SteveAustin]

I'm finding it slightly funny that everyone is now comparing this war to Vietnam. All of the republican responses have been the same...something along the lines of we were losing 50-60 soldiers a day there compared to 4-12 in Iraq....so thats good. We were in Vietnam for 9 years, but we've only been in Iraq for a year.

 

For some reason I thought the comparison being drawn was based on the fact that the Vietnamese didn't want us there and neither do the Iraqis.

 

I really am getting tired of the lack of thought though. It seems like the answer to every question is the same...our military is stronger.

[heavyLox]

Originally posted by TheoHuxtable

 

Why can't we be a nation like Swizerland and just stay out of everybody's business and just live in peace

 

Switzerland proved to be fairly duplicitous now didn't it? Concealing stolen moneys, preventing its citizens from helping and running under ground resistance for French Jews.

 

Remaining uninvolved is not the answer. It s the type of involvement we need to re-tool. The world is a global economy which relies on multiple factors at all time to become a Nation of Isolationists will only create more problems down the line. We need them ; they need us. its jsut WE decided they need us more. Which is crap.

 

The new world order will not function with one super power/ego. In time the EU will prove to be a force to be reconed with, providing its leaders can over come there nationalism and see Europe as a whole. Which doesnt seem close to happening, but it is moving ofrward.

 

But if you look at the BUSH family history, you should get a hint of where Bush wants the country to go. For christs sake, one of his greats (uncle, grandfather) was convicted of supplying the nazi party with goods during the War? WTF is that. We are fighting Islamic fundimentalism while Bush leads the US into the dark and scary hall of the christian right, also a fundimentalist movement. WTF?

 

Bush, I have questions and concerns with your preformance, motives and polocies, please get at me so we can pow-wow and build on it together; we need to straighten this out like last week.

[Guest BROWNer]

informative/interesting blog from raed farrar, an iraqi architect/democracy activist blogging from inside iraq: http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by CILONE/SK

Normally I would agree with this, but they are firing at soldiers from within mosques and in the middle of crowds. They do this on purpose to sway peoples opinions against america when the soldiers blow the shit out of everything because they were attacked.

 

i understand the tactic.

it's a very effective one.

and we are being drawn in by it.

i don't have the answer for this one..

but i know that the mosques and crowds surrounding those who are aggressors seem to be okay with that..

i don't think a mosque compound would give haven to those guys if the mosque didn't support what they were doing..

it's just a bad sign..

not all the muslim clerics were against the occupation a few months ago.

there seems to be a consensus against the coalition forming.

 

 

 

....................

"In Iraq last April, freshly promoted Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia led squads of Florida National Guard soldiers in the fight against insurgents in the deadly Sunni triangle. But Mejia became increasingly pained by his war experiences, and when he went on leave last fall, he decided not to come back. The staff sergeant - one of about 600 soldiers counted as AWOL by the Army during home leaves from Iraq - was eventually labeled a deserter."

 

from: http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2004/03/12805.php

[Guest BROWNer]

that seems pretty harsh cilone...i wouldn't knock it

until you've walked in the dudes boots.

 

also, this thing about mosques and stuff.

yea, its a shit tactic, but what do you expect.

you can't expect people to play nice against

f-16's.

[!@#$%]

yeah, deserting isn't such a good thing...

it's just interesting to me to watch all this shifting in opinions..

in Iraq, in the Armed Forces, in politics, etc..

 

i am always intrigued when a person changes his mind.

(and it seems like this guy changed his mind about the war, not that he got scared and quit)

i wish more people would change their minds.

 

maybe if dubya gets the steel toed boot

you won't have to go.

[heavyLox]

Don Rumsfeld is such a SLIMIE bastard.

 

hes giving apress confrence right now.

 

I used to like him then i learned about him now I hate is word play, non direct ass.

[timemachine]

word palestineone

no pork or alcohol for me

Allahu Akbar

 

 

 

 

tk

[Guest BROWNer]

rumskull

 

Originally posted by heavyLox

Don Rumsfeld is such a SLIMIE bastard.

 

http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/v29/Tesseract/rumskull.jpg'>

[villain]

Cilone - don't hate on the man. Just think about how morally wrong this war is. It is fucked up in so many ways. If he doesn't want to get involved then that's on him. Shit he probably told his soldiers to fucking leave too. This war is bullshit. There is a code in the AR that states that we are NOT obligated to follow an UNLAWFUL order. This entire war is unlawful. Like !@#$% it's not because he is a coward, it's because his beleifs are in conflict with the boldfaced lies of bush.

And I don't know who's army YOU'RE in but the Army I'm in I do what I'm told and have it done YESTERDAY. They don't just hand out desk jobs. Especially with everyone deploying right and left. It has become highly coveted. You gotta be pregnant or sucking the right dick.

 

Kabar - You are stuck in the cold war man. We are not fighting a conventional war here. We will not win by using brute force. The only way we are going to win this is if we have popular support, which we don't and are losing more ground there every single fucking day.

 

Theo - While the swiss ain't so great they certainly have assumed a unique and beneficial position in the world. Being such a powerful international banking capital they do not even have to bother on such vain quests such as getting oil, they can just make money off the countries storing their loot. And no matter who in the world is making the money, they can be on the winning side and make money off their money.

 

HeavyLox brings up a good point about the EU becoming more integrated. I'm sure that Bush's new oil monopoly is going to expedite the process. Also interesting to note is that well over a year or two ago Russia, India, and China foresaw a growing threat from american unilateralism and formed their own sort of trilateral commission to counterbalance the topheaviness of the US.

 

Poop Man Bob - I may ship out soon. I really don't know. I am in absolute limbo.

Well from what I have gathered about the general disposition of soldiers I've talked to and reading statistics is that there is a slight majority of low morale. I think alot of us are sick of this. Especially National Guard and Reserve troops since they are not supposed to be 24/7 soldiers. (Unlike when Bush was in the Guard, the Guard of today are real soldiers.) Even active duty is fed up. Expect these numbers to rise as these conflicts drag on and violence escalates.... There is even some back room talk of dire fates and conspiracy theories but we really try not to dwell on that until it is proved that this administration is the stinkin rotten, fetid, shitspewing gateway to hell that it truly is.

[Dick Quickwood]

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/writer/blood_sucker.jpg'>

[TheoHuxtable]

Originally posted by heavyLox

Switzerland proved to be fairly duplicitous now didn't it? Concealing stolen moneys, preventing its citizens from helping and running under ground resistance for French Jews.

 

Yeah I remember hearing about this a few years ago about how Switzerland were secretly aiding the Nazis during WWII even though they officially considered themselves "neutral".

 

On a side note, I always noticed that Switzerland, The Netherlands, and Scandinavian nations such as Denmark, Norway, Sweeden, and Finland have historically been "isolationist" countries. But they seem to be considerably peaceful both militarily and socially, and they also have strong economies. So to know that The Netherlands have troops operating in Iraq was also surprising.

[Poop Man Bob]

Thanks for the info, villian. I wish you the best.

 

 

 

Some pictures:

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide1.jpg'>

A U.S. marine driving a Humvee with a smashed windshield after a gunfight in Ramadi, near Falluja, Iraq. The attack in Ramadi was on an American base at the governor's palace, and it involved several dozen insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide2.jpg'>

An American marine carried the body of a comrade killed in the battle in Ramadi.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide3.jpg'>

The bloodstained glasses of a U.S. marine were left behind.

[Good lord, that picture is tough. Ugh.]

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide4.jpg'>

Iraqis stood by a pool of blood and a pair of sandals where a man was killed as U.S. troops exchanged fire with Iraqi insurgents.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide5.jpg'>

A U.S. marine took aim during the gunfight.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide6.jpg'>

American marines guarded an Iraqi family in Ramadi, a Sunni stronghold, where other marines were killed in a three-day uprising.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide7.jpg'>

U.S. marines took cover during the fight.

 

 

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/06/international/06rama_slide8.jpg'>

American forces came under fierce attack in the Sunni stronghold of Ramadi.

[villain]

Thx poopster. Crazy flicks. I hope this shit is over before I get my reluctant ass sent over there.

 

I almost forgot to mention, about the radioactive metals... Last time I checked www.publiccitizen.org had an entire section on the recycling of radioactive metals into everyday materials like watches and hubcaps... Also plenty of information about irradiated foods as well... So the shit is more prevalent than people think...

 

Okay it's in this section:

http://www.publiccitizen.org/cmep/

[TheoHuxtable]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

American forces came under fierce attack in the Sunni stronghold of Ramadi.

 

You know, when I see images like this, I can't help but respect these men. When I see images like this I say to myself "Do you think these guys want to be here? Running through the deserts of Iraq waiting to kill or be killed? Some people back on the homefront and in Washington act like these men are simply expendeble. If they die then "oh well". Just numbers. Barcodes. These men would rather be at home watching football, chilling with their wife or girlfriend, playing basketball in the backyard with their son or seeing the look on his daughter's face when he buys her that tricycle. Not fighting thousands of miles away in some place he doesn't want to be over some Bush lie. Not fighting for the rich corporations."

[Poop Man Bob]

Very, very well put, Theo.

[Guest BROWNer]

i read something the other day that said the pentagon has

officially changed the term 'body bag' to the much more

heart warming term 'transfer tube'. kind of catchy, no?

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Originally posted by BROWNer

i read something the other day that said the pentagon has

officially changed the term 'body bag' to the much more

heart warming term 'transfer tube'. kind of catchy, no?

 

Its in the same lines of Donald reffering to WMD's as Weapons of Mass Murder on the 9/11 comittee....a whole new level of niftyness.

 

 

THEO, well said...why would someone enlist ?

[TheoHuxtable]

Originally posted by CILONE/SK

Villian, that guy is a coward who let down everyone around him. It really doesn't matter if he thought the war is morally wrong, he still is in the army and needs to do his job. If he had feelings against the war then he should have told someone so that they didn't put him in a leadership postition with people relying on him. He screwed the all. If he went and talked to his commander and/or chaplin, they would never have put him in a leadership postition. They would have chaptered him out or let him file that objector status paperwork. If he filed that paperwork, he could have requested to serve his time in a desk job until his committment was up. But he took the cowards way out and just ran away from his responsibilities and left everyone relying on him screwed. I have been in the Army long enough to know that going awol is fucked up to everyone around you and there are other ways to serve within your beliefs. Cowards are the only ones who run.

 

Not exactly sure to whom you are referring to, but on a side note the media hasn't really touched too much light on the aspects of soldiers fleeing Iraq. Since the war began last March, many soldiers have gotten "free trips" back to U.S. bases in Germany or the U.S. over issues such as minor injuries, and "psychological" reasons. These numbers range in the thousands. Not sure on the exact number but I'd guess that by now it's roughly 5,000 soldiers who were afraid of combat and simply gave excuses to leave and get a free trip back home. Not saying that ALL of these people were lying or faking, I'm pretty sure many were legit. But this "I have psychological problems" bullshit as soon as you are sent into a combat zone is going to obviously raise suspicions. Like I said the media hasn't really put this aspect in the spotlight, as I've only read one article on this. CILONE do you know anything about this?

[SteveAustin]

I'm gonna add one thing to that. A lot of kids will enlist in the military to get money for college. For some...that is the only way they can go to college. Up until 9/11 and Iraq...most would never have really thought that they would be shipped off somewhere to actually fight in a war.

[SteveAustin]

CILONE...I completely agree. It used to be safe to kinda milk the military for nearly free college fund money. Bottom line is...if they say you go...you go. No amount of bitching or whining will change this. I just thought I'd throw that in there for Tesseract.

[seeking]

i'm gonna use my completely detached civillian status to side with cilone on the whole AWOL subject.

i know everyone has their own right to chose, and obviously this guy did not believe in the war, but if he had men underneath him, and his awol status put them in any jeopardy of harm, then he made the wrong choice. if you're a foot soldier, or private, or whatever they're called, the 'pawn's' and you take off, that's one thing, but if you have people depending on you with their lives, then even if you don't believe in the war, you have to take care of them until you can get out of it the proper way. the army can not MAKE you fight, and if you believe so strongly that the war is unjust and that you wont fight in it, then anything they do to you should be acceptible to you, be it courtmashal or whatever.

 

i said this once before, and took a lot of flack for it, but i'll say it again anyway. i'm sure that war absolutely sucks ass, and is probably the most terrifying thing ever, but if there was a war that i believed in, i would probably join the army. i would honestly like to see how i reacted to those life or death situations. maybe it's because i havent, and i'd get out there and shit my pants and cry for mommy, but i'll never know unless i try, which i think i'd be willing to do (again, given a cause i believed in).

 

ok, thats all for now.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

well said seeking,

 

CILONE, i cant judge what you said and i honestly respect it as well as feel for all those men risking their lifes everyday. Infact, in the lines of Theo's post it gets me even more pissed on goverments.

Anyway, around my parts we all serve either we like it or not, of course we got no war and we got no finacial/whatever benefits but i've seen people mature up from the army experience and put them out of the what i'll do with my life phase.

For me is a waste of time and if i had arguments on how my country deals with war and conflicts i wouldnt join for my life. I dont expect everyone to do the same and i dont look down on those who dont.

 

The sad part in all that is the army absorving kids that dont know what to do...i know it can be interesting but it also can very well be fatal..such a waste.

Thats the reason why the budget on education should flip with the budget of defence.

[se_FOUR]

http://forums.gamewinners.com/forums/images/smilies/rock.gif'>

[TheoHuxtable]

Originally posted by Tesseract

THEO, well said...why would someone enlist ?

 

CILONE pretty much summed it up. Everyone has different reasons.

 

The most common reasons in my humble opinion:

 

-unsure of what they want to do with themselves after high school.

 

-want to serve their country.

 

-people saw the ads and movies and saw it as being an exciting adventure.

 

-wanted to see the world.

 

-needed money for college and/or wanted to attend college for free while in the military.

 

-family tradition (i.e. father & grandfather in military... etc.)

 

-some needed discipline. (i.e. their parents, peers, or themselves suggested it)

 

-in extreme cases, some were on the verge of homelessness and unemployment and the military was like their only way out. The military guarantees 2 paychecks a month, a roof over your head and food in your mouth, so it is a good deal.

 

-some had special sentences to either choose the military or prison.

 

I think MOST people aren't limited to just one reason. Me personally joined for a combination of everything except for the last two. I'm almost at my 4 year mark and I'm preparing to get out. I had my ups and downs here. I do appreciate the fact that the military caused me to do a lot of growing up. After high school due to my immaturity I was scared of the real world... after my time in the military I feel more responsible, disciplined, focused, wiser, etc... and therefore the "real world" doesn't seem that "scary" as I saw it in high school.

[TheoHuxtable]

Originally posted by CILONE/SK

Theo about what? People going back home or the process to get out?

 

I'm talking about the thousands of people who chose to be cowards get out of Iraq due to "psychological" reasons or minor so-called "injuries". I read a story about it a few months ago.