Madrid train blast

[!@#$%]

The attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States — and there 911 days in between the terror attacks in Madrid and those in New York and Washington. It also was Europe's worst terror attack since the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, killed 270 people.

 

 

 

 

i like to see as many perspectives, as many sides to a story as i can.

 

this means i feel horror at terrorist activites everywhere

and empathy, sympathy, condolences for the victims and their families

 

it's surprising to me how many people are down to defend al-qaeda's actions..

 

considering that they do not represent every oppressed people or every group the united states has wrongfully persecuted..

 

i am not naive enough to deny the reasoning behind terrorism

but that doesn't make it alright.

 

i am just as opposed to these attacks as i was to the invasion of iraq

 

our government has killed thousands of innocent people over the years.

that doesn't mean more should die in vengeance.

i also don't believe every arab who has been vicitmized agrees with what al-qaeda is doing.

 

an ironic thing, in november 2000, while having thanksgiving dinner with my family, i started talking about the determination i read in an interview with a terrorist (few had heard of yet) ..bin laden..i went on to talk about what an intelligent guy this was, and that his motivation was truly frightening..

i used to have respect for the guy's abilities, as a leader and as an activist..then he abandoned his military targets (remember u.s.s. cole?) and went to civilians..

 

 

i can denounce terrorism with a clear conscience.

i'm educated about Uncle Sam's own terrorist activities.

and i am still hoping binladen burns in hell.

 

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040313/mdf494823.jpg'>

[villain]

Originally posted by !@#$%

The attack occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States — and there 911 days in between the terror attacks in Madrid and those in New York and Washington. It also was Europe's worst terror attack since the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, killed 270 people.

 

 

Yo, you are FREAKIN ME OUT with this shit! Wtf!?!?!

[villain]

Originally posted by !@#$%

water supplies are hard to fuck with because whatever contaminent was applied would be incredibly diluted..(that's why a small amount of contaminants are already present in drinking water, like lead and arsenic)

radioactive materials are disposed of right down the drain all the time.

and plutonium is tough to come by.

 

i may not work for the CIA, but i am a scientist, and i'm informed.

 

do not forget, while their agenda may be political, it is to turn politics into, and be governed by, religious fanatacism

 

Hmmm... Well I heard this on the news during the craze after 9-11. I'll take the word of a scientist over a reporter.

[villain]

Originally posted by BROWNer

the spaniards are still putting this on the ETA. the al qaeda spin is out and everyone else is blaming al qaeda, but not the spanish government. hmm?

 

Hmm... Yes, well people are always inclined to blame their closest enemy. Who knows. Like Mr Aznar said, not to rule anything out.

[villain]

This is my second attempt at posting this. (why do the big posts and letters always have to fuck up?)

So anyways, I hope noone thinks I am actually defending terrorism here. I'm trying to present the other side of the coin because, if I don't, who will? Not many. I feel it is my duty to present the other side of the coin in order for a fair and impartial judgement.

 

Because of increasing chaos and entropy within the united states we are sending younger and younger people to prison. Do you not think, that if conditions worsen, we wouldn't execute a minor? This is an example of how laws are arbitrary and relative. This is why we also have martial law. So beyond all these specifics, would you not agree that the most fundamental law is do unto others as you would have them do unto you? We try however to make sure that the right person is punished for the crime. We are after all supposed to be treated fairly and as indiviuals. But often we see when dealing with outsiders we like to lump them together into one giant, writhing mass of flesh. :crazy: We use blanket terms like "russian", "iraqi", "isreali", "palestinian". (Here is a good cliff note: Notice how ALL the palestinians are being treated unfairly) It's easy to get caught up in some kind of blind hatred.

 

So I guess the real question is how are we, as mere innocent civilians, responsible for this mess?

 

Well I don't know. I sure as hell didn't put Bush into power. And I don't think many of us ultimately had a say in that either. But I guess we are in a sense responsible for our government and/or corporations actions. Unfortunately an uninformed people cannot make an informed decision so we often just take our advice from the "experts" without really questioning what they say, because hey, after all, it's their JOB! I'm not getting paid for this bullshit! But unfortunately we have a tremendous workload on us to search for the truth. I think it was one of Hitlers strategies to get the germans all riled up and then find a point of blame for their problems, the jews.

 

So anyways, here's my proposition. I want to make a poster to inform the people. I want it to have a big eye catching headline like WANTED: For crimes against humanity!

And then have like a CIA dossier on Bush. Have like a profile set up like mugshots and pertinant information listed below like business ties to halliburton and previous stock interest in Enron etc. It could be the size of like a trading card. Maybe we could even make trading cards too. But I think we should do the whole administration. It would be fun and cool. It could be the flipside of the iraqis most wanted cards.

I also want a sitrep map on the poster as well. It could have maps of iraq and afghanistan showing key points of trouble like the pipeline in afghanistan to the dabhol powerplant and we could have like halliburton flags flying over iraqi oil refineries etc.

So I would appreciate it if yall would help me out. We could start a thread for this or something with our contributions on it. Maybe BROWNer could do some intel gathering and maybe Mams would help do some photoshoping of the map and profiles or whatever. Or find good pics for the profiles i guess. I would even give you guys like $20 for any significant work. Whooptie doo. But I think this would be a cool thing to do though. Especially now cause alot of people are like wtf is going on here and they suspect stuff but aren't sure what direction to look in. This is where we could step in. This would be especially useful so close to election time. We could change the course of HISTORY! We could even instill an era of more personal involvement in government as well as a fair and balanced system. We could usher in an era of peace and reign for 1000 years! Yeah we rule! Rock on!

We could just post them up while we are busting tags and bombs around town. Think about it if we had a majority participation of this board we would definately be making some heads turn and gears turn within.

So whaddyall think?

[DREDZ]

Originally posted by DEE38

fucking shit, i can't believe this also.

 

i keep telling my self, god handles dumbasses like that but shit... just shit..

 

and everyone all over the world was afraid to go on a plane... now its to ride the train......... then next buses... then their own cars.. then bicycles...... then walk outside.......... the be INSIDE..

 

the victims=r.i.p.

i feel you

 

...there have been incidents in some countries of terrorists hilacking buses and innocent passengers being executed.

[KaBar2]

Everybody knew it was just a matter of time

 

I don't think the ETA did this. Not so much that they aren't capable of killing innocent civilians (they are) but it doesn't fit their established MO. They always call before a bomb attack, sometimes multiple calls.

 

This smells like Al Quaeda to me.

 

Of course, everybody mourns the loss of life. It's tragic, and horrible. But Al Quaeda attacks where the target is soft, and Spain was a pretty easy-going kind of place, compared to say, Chicago or New York.

 

Something tells me that the Spaniards are going to be in the forefront of the next attacks on Al Quaeda. We won't have to ship terrorist suspects to Guantanamo Bay anymore. Spain will be glad to help us incarcerate and interrogate suspected Al Quaeda terrorists, just like Eygpt is. And Spain is a lot closer to North Africa than is Cuba.

 

It's just a matter of time before they hit the continental U.S. again. And when they do, the American people will be furious. Up until now, Americans have been sort of luke-warm on the war on terrorism, but once Al Quaeda commits a follow-up terrorist act in the U.S., I think John Q. Public is going to have blood in his eye.

 

I'm sure the undercover CIA guys have been working overtime on the wet work, but now that Al Quaeda hit Spain, the Spanish intelligence services will be smoking bad guys everywhere.

[TheoHuxtable]

Re: Everybody knew it was just a matter of time

 

Originally posted by KaBar2

I don't think the ETA did this. Not so much that they aren't capable of killing innocent civilians (they are) but it doesn't fit their established MO. They always call before a bomb attack, sometimes multiple calls.

 

This smells like Al Quaeda to me.

 

Of course, everybody mourns the loss of life. It's tragic, and horrible. But Al Quaeda attacks where the target is soft, and Spain was a pretty easy-going kind of place, compared to say, Chicago or New York.

 

Something tells me that the Spaniards are going to be in the forefront of the next attacks on Al Quaeda. We won't have to ship terrorist suspects to Guantanamo Bay anymore. Spain will be glad to help us incarcerate and interrogate suspected Al Quaeda terrorists, just like Eygpt is. And Spain is a lot closer to North Africa than is Cuba.

 

It's just a matter of time before they hit the continental U.S. again. And when they do, the American people will be furious. Up until now, Americans have been sort of luke-warm on the war on terrorism, but once Al Quaeda commits a follow-up terrorist act in the U.S., I think John Q. Public is going to have blood in his eye.

 

I'm sure the undercover CIA guys have been working overtime on the wet work, but now that Al Quaeda hit Spain, the Spanish intelligence services will be smoking bad guys everywhere.

 

 

I think Islamic groups as a whole are losing their support worldwide and are desperate. They don't have as strong a support as they did prior to 9/11... I mean recently Islamic-related bombings have killed more Muslims than anybody; specifically in Iraq, Afghanistan, and a while back in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Now Muslims are starting to turn against these extremists.

 

KaBar how old are you by the way? I remember that post where you said you'll be dead in 25 years or something like that. I can't imagine you being like 60.

[cmeup]

Re: Everybody knew it was just a matter of time

 

Originally posted by KaBar2

It's just a matter of time before they hit the continental U.S. again. And when they do, the American people will be furious. Up until now, Americans have been sort of luke-warm on the war on terrorism, but once Al Quaeda commits a follow-up terrorist act in the U.S., I think John Q. Public is going to have blood in his eye.

 

A-FUCKING-MEN.

 

even though some will say that "they struck again because we invaded iraq and bla bla bla" i still think al queda would have struck again reguardless of whether or not we waged war in iraq...

 

which to me is a perfect example of why we SHOULD be in iraq, trying to hunt down these terrorist.

 

ps- although suddam might not have been working directly with osama (although i think he was) ...he was still a huge source of money if and when they needed it im sure...

[26SidedCube]

Imagine if you were planning on hitting some

daytime hollows there on your way to or from

school/work that day and you got sidetracked

(no pun intended) and held up in line buying a

coffee and a danish. Heebeegeebees.

 

I guess there's no real way to point any fingers

here. They hate our ('westerners') way of

life because by any of our military's indications

we hate them for their way of life. Then they

proceed to hate countries that do business

with us based on the fact that money is a

neccessarily evil in todays world... while

meanwhile half the reason they have the

arms and training they do is because of their

economical past with us. Those deals went

sour and left them high and dry; because in

the end everyone is only looking to cover

their own ass. So what do you do? Kill yourself

and others for the sake of your cause, which

is all you've got left. Makes sense to me.

 

Human nature's a sumomabitch.

[KaBar2]

The worst part of the war on terrorism is not the actual military operations or the "black ops." The worst part is the damage done to the American people's toleration for inapproprioate, intrusive, security counter-measures. I worry that once we have a Department of Homeland Security and people accept their existance and operations, we will be saddled with their encroachments on our liberty and the Bill of Rights forever.

[Guest imported_sofarok]

MADRID, Spain - Police on Saturday searched for three men seen in ski masks carrying backpacks toward the line where trains were bombed

[villain]

Re: Re: Everybody knew it was just a matter of time

 

Originally posted by E MARTYR

A-FUCKING-MEN.

 

even though some will say that "they struck again because we invaded iraq and bla bla bla" i still think al queda would have struck again reguardless of whether or not we waged war in iraq...

 

which to me is a perfect example of why we SHOULD be in iraq, trying to hunt down these terrorist.

 

ps- although suddam might not have been working directly with osama (although i think he was) ...he was still a huge source of money if and when they needed it im sure...

 

 

Uhh... Dude, there was no terrorists in Iraq. Saddam was an enemy of fundamentalism. There are terrorists there now, only because Saddam is not in power and we are there.

[adderall]

another step closer to total lockdown

[cmeup]

Re: Re: Re: Everybody knew it was just a matter of time

 

Originally posted by villain

Uhh... Dude, there was no terrorists in Iraq. Saddam was an enemy of fundamentalism. There are terrorists there now, only because Saddam is not in power and we are there.

 

no terrorists in iraq? i doubt that...

[villain]

Yes emartyr... why don't you do some homework and look for other threads on this subject or even read a book on it?

[Guest BROWNer]

no, the worst part is the perpetuation of creating legitimate grievances abroad through extreme violence and economic rape with a blindly consenting population.

[GnomeToys]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Everybody knew it was just a matter of time

 

Originally posted by E MARTYR

no terrorists in iraq? i doubt that...

 

You doubt wrong. Iraq had about as much to do with terrorism as we have to do with peacekeeping.

[KaBar2]

Afghanistan, then Iraq--next: Syria.

 

Syria has long since been a fucking problem child in the Middle East. They dominate Lebanon, because the Lebanese government is too weak to impose order and control over the Palestinians living there, and cannot control the various Mafia-like factions that operate within Lebanon and especially within Beirut. After the horrific battle of Beirut, and the occupation of southern Lebanon by the Israelis, and the arming of the South Lebanese Army (Christians) by the Israelis, there was a big power vacuum, because the central government had pretty much dematerialized, so Syria moved in to establish and control the "Green Line" demilitarized zone.

 

Even though they are there, in serious force, terrorism continues. They support and sponsor Islamic terrorist groups. They allow them to train in Syria, they give them weapons and explosives, they allow them to come and go unimpeded--in short, they are a nest of terrorist vipers.

 

I predict Syria is next on the hit parade.

 

You guys saw what happened with Libya. Ghaddaffi saw the handwriting on the wall, and decided he's better off as no threat to the U.S. and western Europe than he would be as molecules suspended in the air over a huge cruise missle crater.

 

Terrorism doesn't just occur out of thin air--somebody has to SUPPORT and FOSTER it. It doesn't matter if we get the suicide bomber pawns or the terrorist gunmen themselves or not. We need to go after the people who give the orders, and in a big way. The Mafia calls this "cowboying" a target. They don't just kill the guy quietly and in private--they blow his shit up in front of the whole world, to let everybody know. It's "counter-terrorism." Guys like Ghaddaffi are enjoying life plenty. They do not want to be bombed in the middle of the night by half the U.S. Air Force. So now, he wants to be our pal.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Originally posted by BROWNer

no, the worst part is the perpetuation of creating legitimate grievances abroad through extreme violence and economic rape with a blindly consenting population.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

So as you know or may not, as i type they have elections in Spain. Just a week ago gallops had Aznar winning again and the socialdemocrats running second. Right now the exit polls (15%) show Aznar losing.

If you note that Aznar was in favor of the iraq invasion while spaniards had the biggest antiwar rallies in europe and the fact that Aznar tried to put the heat on ETA over this while its now proven that it was Bin Ladin you realise that the spanish people are impeaching him for very obvious reasons.

Go Spaniards!

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Spanish opposition in early lead

Spain's opposition Socialist party appears to be taking the lead in the general election with 30% of votes counted, exit polls show.

 

The Socialists have won 44% of the vote while the Popular Party has garnered 36%, reports say.

 

The poll has been clouded by claims that al-Qaeda carried out the Madrid bomb attacks that killed 200 people.

 

Two television polls put the Socialists ahead, while a third indicates a lead for the government.

 

Officials said turnout was 62.9% just before voting ended - higher than the 55.5% at the same time in 2000's poll.

 

EXIT POLLS

State television: Socialists (SPOE): 154-158 seats; Popular Party (PP): 150-154 seats

Cadena Ser radio: SPOE: 151-159; PP: 154-160

Telecino television: SPOE: 141 seats; PP: 169 seats

Total number of seats: 350

Analysts said people had turned out in bigger numbers to defy the bombers who carried out last Thursday's attacks in Madrid.

 

It had been thought a higher turnout would favour left-wing parties.

 

Investigation

 

Investigations continue into who was behind the bombings.

 

Initially, the government was adamant the Basque separatist organisation Eta was responsible for the bombings, but now it has been forced to admit that al-Qaeda has become the top suspect, the BBC's Richard Galpin in Madrid says.

 

This comes after a videotaped claim of responsibility by a man identifying himself as al-Qaeda's military spokesman in Europe.

 

Spain's Interior Minister Angel Acebes said European intelligence services had been unable to identify the man, named as Abu Dujan al-Afgani.

 

Before the tape's existence was made public, thousands of Spaniards took to the streets accusing the government of downplaying an al-Qaeda link for fear of losing votes.

 

Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio told the BBC Eta was still a strong suspect, and said police were not ruling out a possible collaboration between Eta and al-Qaeda.

 

Three Moroccans and two Indians are being held in connection with the attacks.

 

Germany has called an urgent meeting of EU interior ministers to discuss the situation.

 

Turnout

 

Polls opened at 0900 local time (0800 GMT), and queues formed almost immediately.

 

Black ribbons hung from polling booths and voters' lapels. Most voters at polling stations near the attack scenes spent a few moments at candle and floral shrines laid out for the victims.

 

Cayetano Abad, one of the 1,500 wounded in last Thursday's attacks, was driven to a polling station in an ambulance.

 

"I've come to show that everything carries on, that we cannot stand idle," he said, bandaged and wearing a neck brace.

 

Tensions were reportedly high as people debated which political party should take the country forward in the wake of the attacks.

 

Heated arguments broke out in polling stations across the city, and continued at newspaper stands, cafes and on street corners.

 

In some cases, police were called to keep the peace.

 

Some voters said they stayed up all night listening to the radio, hoping to glean some information to decide which way to vote.

 

Duty to vote

 

Many people admitted they had not planned to vote until the bombings.

 

"I have two friends who have never voted in their lives and they're going to vote in this one," said 41-year-old businessman Carlos Bermudez.

 

Outgoing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and his wife were booed and jostled as they arrived to cast their votes in central Madrid an hour after polling began.

 

I wanted to feel a little bit better, because at home I can't do anything

Madrid protester

As he tried to address supporters, he was drowned out by cries of "manipulators", "liars" and "peace".

 

Mariano Rajoy - who is to succeed Mr Aznar if their Popular Party (PP) is returned to office - was also forced to find cover after youths hurled abuse as he turned up to vote.

 

The videotape was found in a litter bin on Saturday following an anonymous tip-off to a Madrid television station.

 

In the video, a man speaking Arabic with a Moroccan accent says the attacks were revenge for Spain's "collaboration with the criminals Bush and his allies".

 

The Spanish government backed the US-led invasion of Iraq last year despite polls showing 90% opposition to it from the Spanish public.

 

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/worl...ope/3511280.stm

 

Published: 2004/03/14 20:51:26 GMT

[villain]

This is an extrordinary example of what I was talking about with the intimidation tactics of terrorism. The government by going against the will of the people have weakened themselves and left their own people to suffer for this. I had no idea the Spanish government had let themselves into such a weakened position. After all Europe is very liberal. I think they have been strongarmed into dealing with Bush. I think we are still more divided here in the US but the government is weakening itself by dragging on these endless and questionable wars.

 

From a national security standpoint, Kabar, Syria would seem the way to go but I think we should weigh in the economic factors. I think invading Afghanistan was probably 70% national security and 30% an economic target. Invading Iraq has been practically 100% economic and has fuck all to do with national security. Cleaning up Syria (we don't really need to invade countries to police them up anymore for the most part) would be almost purely an act of national security. But then again invading venezuala is a tantalizing economic target for bush. And what was all this Haiti madness about anyways? Perhaps it was to prime the public to be aware of instabilities in our lower hemisphere?

[26SidedCube]

Originally posted by Tesseract

So as you know or may not, as i type they have elections in Spain. Just a week ago gallops had Aznar winning again and the socialdemocrats running second. Right now the exit polls (15%) show Aznar losing.

If you note that Aznar was in favor of the iraq invasion while spaniards had the biggest antiwar rallies in europe and the fact that Aznar tried to put the heat on ETA over this while its now proven that it was Bin Ladin you realise that the spanish people are impeaching him for very obvious reasons.

Go Spaniards!

 

I'm not trying to get deep into this because I

may have just read that wrong but...

 

You don't think Spain would have been a

potential target for terrorism regardless of

their supporting the war in Iraq at some

point or another? Spain is pretty damn

Westernized... which is what I was under

the impression al Qaeda was waging war

against... Western Culture.

 

For the people to say 'Well, it's the US's bed,

let them lie in it' is short-sighted and counter

progressive. Not that waging unjust wars is

in any way forward movement, as it's the

reason we're in this situation in the first place...

but you have to consider that all this bullshit

has been building up for some 30-40 years

now and up until this point the American public

has be near blind to the positions our leaders

decisions have been putting us in. Though I'm

sure it seems quite the contrary, I doubt if

given the choice between cheap gas prices

and an leaving a section of the globe unstable

and in poverty the bulk of the public would

pick the latter when educated on the reprocussions.

 

You have to remember, we're the spoiled

little brother of the world... we're learning

this as we go along. Being that I never chose

to be an American citizen and I was born into

the bullshit it'd be comforting to know the

world was starting to understand what it feels

like to know your ass could be taken out for

walking down the street (I live in nyc, if you

don't already know that) or getting on a train

for the decisions you had no hand in. Not that

I'm that self-important. I think it'd be pretty

unique to go out in a terrorist attack but I'm

only 21 years old.. I've still got some shit I'd

like to do before I'm blown off the face of the

planet. Nahmsayin?

 

And I'm not a patriot, trust me. The US blowing

up countries that have nothing to do with the

attack is not a solution... but don't you think

something has to be done?

 

Okay, I got kinda deep into it.

 

Edit: Yes. They should protest the war in Iraq

based on it's having nothing to do with terrorism,

but you can't say taking Husein out of power

was a bad thing to support.

[26SidedCube]

Originally posted by villain

Invading Iraq has been practically 100% economic and has fuck all to do with national security.

 

5 points.

[villain]

What we should have done in iraq was end sanctions and allow the middle class to grow again so that the cosmopolitan lifestyle would ease the tensions between tribes... Eventually Saddam would have been voted out of power just as we would have all liked.

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

Originally posted by 26SidedCube

I'm not trying to get deep into this because I

may have just read that wrong but...

 

You don't think Spain would have been a

potential target for terrorism regardless of

their supporting the war in Iraq at some

point or another? Spain is pretty damn

Westernized... which is what I was under

the impression al Qaeda was waging war

against... Western Culture.

 

 

This is true to a general extend, for fanatic muslims every western thing is a potential target. However, there is an hierarchy over targets othrewise they'be hitting all of westerns weak-spots that wouldnt be much of a 'victory' to begin with. The two strongest supporters on the war against iraq were the UK and Spain, hitting London is close to imposible right now, so i guess spain was #2. After all its stated clearly in that tape they found:

In the video, a man speaking Arabic with a Moroccan accent says the attacks were revenge for Spain's "collaboration with the criminals Bush and his allies"

 

Its a clear cut case to me and it serves a point if you see the outcome of the spanish elections..people impeached Aznar for being Bush friendly and causing so much drama as a consequence...you think the next party in power will be so close and friendly with Bush's foreign politics? i really doubt it.

 

I wanted to post an interview today, but could find it translated. It was in a greek paper and it was with Omar Bakri (the leader of an islamic group and suposed to be the voice of bin ladin in the UK).

Dude said that if greece will maintain its neutral position on those issues (greece was the president of the EU while the war in iraq begun and practically tried to keep the unity between the two pro and anti groups)

Bin Ladin will most likely wont hit during the olympic games that are by nature a target against the west.

So you see that right now we play hide n' seek...its a clear warning.

 

Bottom line for me is that Bush's politics failed in everysingle way, besides making money, and now the world has to pay for the damage...clap clap

[Guest imported_Tesseract]

OMAR BAKRI

[26SidedCube]

Originally posted by Tesseract

Bottom line for me is that Bush's politics failed in everysingle way, besides making money, and now the world has to pay for the damage...clap clap

 

Well yeah, that's a given.

 

:cool:

[villain]

Let's all thank Bush for making the world a safer place from terrorism.

Ready?

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FUCK YOU!