rinse Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by b0b rinse: That's the most eloquent post I've seen you make in this thread and hadn't noticed your move off towards writers. None of what I posted realtes to writers, merely the original article. I'll define where I was coming from: just cos someone is anti-advertising it doesn't make them a communist or some far out there hippy (hence the wigwam remark). If someone is selling something it doesn't automatically make it captialism, it is merely commerce. You can have a socialist society based on commerce, just becuase there is money involed doesn;t make it captialism. (hence my talk of political theory). Seeing as the topic had moved on but I was still stubburnly trying to stick to it I'll be quiet. no worries bob. i have never witnessed a socialist system that relied heavily on advertised commerce, yet then again, i have never personally experienced an absolute socialist climate. anyways you are obviously exercising thought and sharing insight which i always welcome, even if its a train of thought that runs against the grain. dont stop droppin' those opinions, we need more social/political awareness on the 12oz. we all should be keeping each in check. brought to you by: smart Beware false allies, be true to the struggle. just thought this one was worth repeating. nice work smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by rinse ... but if somebody cant see the forest, perhaps you could point out which trees are blocking the view. ...the tree's are your perception of what advertising is and its role...the forrest is consumerist culture and the relation of contemporary man to his society...advertising is not the direct enemy but only a symbol of a much greater problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIP HOP SOUL Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 THATS SO FUCKIN DOPE IN HER LATE SIXTIES!!!I WISH THAT WAS MY GRANDMA WE CAN BUST MISSIONS EVERYDAY.HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIP HOP SOUL Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 FUCK ADVERTISING I HATE THAT SHIT.THEY DO FORCE US TO SEE IT.ITS LIKE LEGAL GRAFF.THEY GET UP AND CAN GO AS BIG AS THEY WANT.BITCHES AND HOS.BUT THEY HAVE SOME FINE AS GIRLS IN ADVERTISEMENTS SOMETIMES...........:yum: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by porque ...the tree's are your perception of what advertising is and its role...the forrest is consumerist culture and the relation of contemporary man to his society...advertising is not the direct enemy but only a symbol of a much greater problem... so it has already been established that my theory gauge is tetering on low, but it seems to rinse that you are proposing most folkers dont realize they are stumbling right into a prefabricated buyers market (the forrest) because they cant see past the tempting go-lucky advertisements in all of their glossy lure (the trees). if this is close to the mark, isnt that the primary function of advertising in the first place? and just for discussions sake, what then would be the greater problem if not the handicap of human compulsion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_b0b Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by rinse just for discussions sake, what then would be the greater problem if not the handicap of human compulsion? The stupidity of the average person is the biggest fucking problem ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by b0b Yo I didn't know ODS ran a multi national that used 3rd world kids to make shit.. ODS hook us up with some of the loot. Just cos you are anti-advertising it doesn;t mean you want to live in a wigwam and be part of a commune. Go and get enlightened a little rinse before you spout anything else on here, as your understanding of basic political theory is low. Exactly bob. werd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by rinse slow your roll there bob. your insinuating that i said the anti-advertising movement doesnt need to make a living. dont get so itchy with your triger finger. what i am saying is if someone is anti-capitalist then its sorta back asswards to be selling your tee-shirts for $19.95. that my dear bob is capitalism at work. wouldnt you say? not to mention if you are making prints for sale of the same type of art that you are releasing on the streets through graff(not that i have a problem with a writer making flow off his/her craft; lets not forget that i am a writer too here), then you are indeed advertising however indirectly. and why even mention the ethics of sweat shop labor. what does that have to do with advertising? i think what happened here is that you saw my post and read what you wanted to read because your suggesting some mess i didnt even come close to saying. what i was posting really was vearing off of the anti-advertising story that smart posted and more into writers that are selling products and advertising just like these mega corporations only with a can of paint or a marker. in my "low understanding of basic political theory" that is still capitalising through advertising no matter how big or small. tell me again where a wig-wam on a commune fits into this thought. yo graff has always been about advertising but not advertising for finacial gain, personally i am just amused that it is some times used to sell products wether it is by a car company or a t shirt peddling writer. so why are you trying to be"little" me... i didnt find any real venom in your business or political theory either. Advertising is bribery. The companies are telling you this: "If you want to eat, thus surviving, you must give us money." You are paying to stay alive. Advertising supports this. Long story short. Fuck the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by rinse slow your roll there bob. your insinuating that i said the anti-advertising movement doesnt need to make a living. dont get so itchy with your triger finger. what i am saying is if someone is anti-capitalist then its sorta back asswards to be selling your tee-shirts for $19.95. that my dear bob is capitalism at work. wouldnt you say? not to mention if you are making prints for sale of the same type of art that you are releasing on the streets through graff(not that i have a problem with a writer making flow off his/her craft; lets not forget that i am a writer too here), then you are indeed advertising however indirectly. and why even mention the ethics of sweat shop labor. what does that have to do with advertising? i think what happened here is that you saw my post and read what you wanted to read because your suggesting some mess i didnt even come close to saying. what i was posting really was vearing off of the anti-advertising story that smart posted and more into writers that are selling products and advertising just like these mega corporations only with a can of paint or a marker. in my "low understanding of basic political theory" that is still capitalising through advertising no matter how big or small. tell me again where a wig-wam on a commune fits into this thought. yo graff has always been about advertising but not advertising for finacial gain, personally i am just amused that it is some times used to sell products wether it is by a car company or a t shirt peddling writer. so why are you trying to be"little" me... i didnt find any real venom in your business or political theory either. Advertising is bribery. The companies are telling you this: "If you want to eat, thus surviving, you must give us money." You are paying to stay alive. You are bribing them to say in business. But they can always switch to a different company, so it's still corporations bribing you, but you can't say to them, well, I don't like you so I won't eat, therefore you don't make a profit. Advertising supports this. Long story short. Fuck the system. I hope that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by rinse i understand that but why dis capitalism, then turn around a harvest moneys in a capitalist fashion? I don't harvest money from anything in a capitalist manor! Who the fuck do you think I am , KR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by ODS-1 I don't harvest money from anything in a capitalist manor! Who the fuck do you think I am , KR? hmmm, baffling... where does ODS-1 fit in to my quote? i'm not finding the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Originally posted by ODS-1 Advertising is bribery. The companies are telling you this: "If you want to eat, thus surviving, you must give us money." You are paying to stay alive. You are bribing them to say in business. But they can always switch to a different company, so it's still corporations bribing you, but you can't say to them, well, I don't like you so I won't eat, therefore you don't make a profit. Advertising supports this. Long story short. Fuck the system. I hope that made sense. i agree but not to the degree that i would call it bribery. it is the art of subtle coercion and persuasion. a parasite that feeds on flock mantality. but you have more power than you think. its called the all mighty dollar. yes, you have to eat but you dont have to subscribe to what these advertisers are offering, and ultimately that is what is going to be the deciding factor of what or how many advertisements sufficate your view. if people dont give money to a company that company has no capital gain to recycle into advertising. when you say fuck the system, what system is it that you are talking about? there are many systems out there and not all of them have an architect that you can point a finger at. when it comes down to it, buyers are only being feed what they want otherwise there is no profit margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymski1 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 i would hardly call a 20 foot hogh billboard subtle. nor countless televison adverts blasting out the name of the product again and again to the tune of who ever is flavour of the month in the charts at that particular moment. the reason i hate advertising so much is that it is anything but subtle, and is forced upon me virtually anywhere i look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 By fuck the system I mean capitalism. I could go on about waht it's flaws are and why I hate it but that would be off the subject of the thread. There is really not anyway to survive without corporate food. You could grow your own, but I don't see how you can surive off of a tomato garden. You can by from farmers markets, which supports farmers, and you can by from organic stores, but that really blasts off people of color and poor people as it is so expensive. Conidering that the bag of seeds you plan to grow is probably manufactured by the same large food companies, they are still getting money. Support your local farmers market.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Originally posted by plymski1 i would hardly call a 20 foot hogh billboard subtle. nor countless televison adverts blasting out the name of the product again and again to the tune of who ever is flavour of the month in the charts at that particular moment. the reason i hate advertising so much is that it is anything but subtle, and is forced upon me virtually anywhere i look. the actual advertisements arnt subtle, but the persuasion techniques used within them that make them effective sales tools are. they convence you to consume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Yeah, I have to agree with rinse on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Originally posted by ODS-1 By fuck the system I mean capitalism. I could go on about waht it's flaws are and why I hate it but that would be off the subject of the thread. There is really not anyway to survive without corporate food. You could grow your own, but I don't see how you can surive off of a tomato garden. You can by from farmers markets, which supports farmers, and you can by from organic stores, but that really blasts off people of color and poor people as it is so expensive. Conidering that the bag of seeds you plan to grow is probably manufactured by the same large food companies, they are still getting money. Support your local farmers market.:) maybe we should get a new thread fired up because i am curious about your views. it sounds like you harbor mad distain for capitalism which is the only system i have ever known. i do see glitches in the machine but that could be said for any social/political format. the organic topic could carry on too. not only is what you posted a good idea to keep capital within the local economy and out of the hands of the corprate filthy rich, but there is a long list of organic health benifits. i just got schooled today as a matter of fact, [by a partna' of mine] about some rediculously sick facts about hormone induced dairy milk which is too far off topic in this thread too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted March 22, 2004 Author Share Posted March 22, 2004 what about ads that say 'don't get aids' or 'speed kills'...? Still advertising, not for profit... or what about 'door hangers'... religious nuts, pizza or chinese food guys... how come there isn't an article about how they're striking a blow against them? litterbugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by Smart what about ads that say 'don't get aids' or 'speed kills'...? Still advertising, not for profit... its probably a strategy. they dont attack ads like that because the dont want to seem insensative to the human condition. they dont want to beef up against non-profits because right now they have swing sympathists that might swing their symapathies the other way, if this little grassrooted underdog of anti-ad campaigners starts aiming at groups that are trying to make a real difference in the community. the mode of logic to many half hearted supporters might then be something like this: i believed in what this group was doing when it was hating on nike and whatnot but now they've started targeting this aids awareness groups billbords and i think thats wrong because the world needs aids awareness. see, many people know someone who has aids or who has been killed in a car accident and can identify with advertisements along those lines. its just a strategy to keep a larger measure of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by Smart what about ads that say 'don't get aids' or 'speed kills'...? Still advertising, not for profit... or what about 'door hangers'... religious nuts, pizza or chinese food guys... how come there isn't an article about how they're striking a blow against them? litterbugs. But that's for something that is very important. To have a billboard telling you to eat is completely unnesecary. Everyone knows to eat. But to have a billboard that says "Be safe and you won't get AIDS" is completely different. Not everyone knows all about AIDS. So having 20,000,000 billboards telling you to eat, is stupid. On the other hand, a billbaird telling you not to get STD's, is good because that's not completely obvious, as is "eat or die" See my point? Although billboards against STD's may help bring up the prfit for condom companies, there are some things that are alright to be made by companies, I mean, you can't grow condoms in your backyard like you can food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 "shopping is the 5th element of hip-hop" -dose one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 ok... I'd like to point out that when I said 'religious nuts', I wasn't speaking about a food product... But, what if your company invented the 'healthiest butter' or something... wouldn't that be in the public interest to advertise? Sure, everyone knows how to eat but most Americans aren't eating healthy... Even if you're making money of your 'new butter', you probably spent money to develop it and this isn't a perfect world, you have to tell people what you invented... If I had to pick a group of advertizers to hate on it would be drug ads... the 'boner' pill that also says 'if erection lasts for more than 48 hours, consult physician' or the one for ulcers that has 'abdominal pain' as a side effect (what are they fixing?)... and alot of those pills seem to make you crap yourself. What's up with that? No, but, the fact that they have so much extra revenue for ads tells me something, they didn't do that in the 70's and they still made MAD money... I think all those ads are bullshit, but on the other hand, aspirin is a good thing (Tylenol is BAD!)... Where do you draw the line? I don't really wanna hear about yeast infections but chicks NEED tampons... and, I hear, they can feel 'unfresh' sometimes... And how about the concept of censorship? After all, these are individuals (or minority) deciding what the masses are exposed to (and the righteousness there-of)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 forgot about this thread im still saying that the anti-advertisers are a group of people who need to realize what they are really doing im going to have to side with Smart all the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 smart, i cant help but think that you are leading up to something more here. come on now, crack this thread wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 Well, mainly, probably what I said about fair-weather allies... I'm not sure what I'm still bugged about here... I think, somehow in our semi-disconnected conversations here that we've touched upon it but I've yet to assemble the pieces... We all seem to agree that there are different types of advertising and that these types posess varying degress of 'worth'... But, on that level... I have always kind of considered McDicks to be the ultimate consumer/advertising leviathon but, at least they also have the Ron McDon House for the kids... on the flip... I NEVER EVER saw an ad for Enron. Seems like common sense says that crooks lay low... Another sort of issue with all this is capitalism, but I'm not really on about political/economic stuff ... capitalism, I'm FOR it... Deeper still is the war against the marketing directors... the sense of having something that is still honest, undiluted and real. They seem to invade every aspect of our lives. Not to blow the anti-graff-use horn, but has anyone seen the latest Comedy Central 'look'? This reminds me of a once GREAT comedian named Bill Hicks who once said: "Think of me as Chomsky with dick jokes." ... and he really hated the marketeers as well but... that's still not quite what bugs me... just a comedy break. Maybe it is the political angle, maybe I'm pissed that they are trying to take such a pure revolution and bend it to some stupid agenda... I don't know, I'm sure they believe in it but their whole cause seems to be just a front for a larger issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinse Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 advertising is a beast no doubt. in the future i believe we will witness the cost of advertising single-handedly raise the retail cost of most goods and ultimately hurt the consumers. advertising is a game industry players us to attract the most consumers. like any competitive sport, companies are forced to out-do the next guy with better moves and in this game that takes alota' squilla. prime time comercial slots are outlandishly expensive not to mention the actual cost of creating the comercial, which these days are more and more sophisticated which translates into more $$$. in the end who is footing the bill for those billboards? you, the consumer... and as the the price for those ads rise so does the cost of the goods they represent. keeping that in mind (along with other obvious reasons) i support what many anti-advertising activists are trying to accomplish. not that i would suggest ever getting into bed with their cause but any victory for them at this point, is to most people's benefit. as far as bending something pure to serve a warped agenda, well thats how the game gets played and it happens everyday only this time its something they are taking from you & i. whats amazing is that both sides are doing it in different ways at the same time. on one side you have the "marketeers" (take sprite's older graff style ad-campaign) who are robbing our style [bubble clouds, bent letters, etc.] for an enhanced edgier look which serves their agenda. on the other side you have the anti-ad guerillas adopting our techniques [writing on signs]which caters to their agendas. it's sickening but the mainstream culture vampires never feed on anything for too long, they like fresh catches that they can wear out in a year. then (at least) our style will belong soley to writers again. not real sure what the larger issue could be though, some pools just dont have a deep end. anyways nice plug for bill hicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS-1 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I've made my opinions clear. Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Milk85 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 ^^^ Bill Hicks also said "If you ever do any commercials or advertisments...any endorsements or support any corporation whatsoever to sell their products...you're off the artistic role call forever." and he meant it...and he was right, imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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