Guest beardo Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 the thing that sticks out in my mind most in the last 24 hours- is what could possibly be done in retaliation to this. no amount of anything can top what was done yesterday. unspeakable. this the only word to describe it, and that in my opinion is a drastic understatement. the thing is, there is really no one/nothing to retaliate against. if they do find who did it the us/world would have to do something even less speakable to retaliate. what more symbolic structure in the world could we destroy? what symbolic city can we completely anihilate? the culprits couldnt possibly live long enough to withstand the amound of torture they deserve. even if they could it would never redeem the thousands they killed. politics will not allow any of that to happen anyway. id say they got away with it. they may have lost their lives in the act, but that was all part of the plan. the fact that no one can do anything to them says 'i got away' just and excerpt from the 'i could write a book' files of beardo, entitled, 'holy fucking shit' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 i should also remark that i dont feel any civilians should ever be used as a target, which adds to my complete state of helplessness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 and the other thing that sticks out is that just 12 hours earlier i finished reading 'ishmael' a truely eye opening book about our relationship with mother earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realdeal187 Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 this had to be a huge opperation against the usa... not just some small terrorist group.. there is a large group or country behind the curtain.... that group or country needs to be wiped off the earth.. period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 i think people are drasticly overestimating the manpower that put this together. it really doesnt take much. the idea is phenominal, but it really only took a flight instruction manual, an airline scedule and few people with box cutters willing to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik3000 Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 This could have been less than ten guys with a budget of under twenty grand. That's what's so scary. They picked the most visible targets from the air, the pentagon and the wtc. And it takes a lot less skill to crash a plane than to land one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTCH WHISKEO Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 That someone could cripple the mightiest nation on earth with just a jail-house shank is pretty amazing. Good thing we spend that 30 billion a year on "DEFENCE",hunh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embalmwon Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 it is sad because some people have to deal wi8th things like this every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 3rd thing on my mind- nothing could have stopped this. any sharp object, and lots of other items that can be used as weapons, much less knives and box cutters would get through no matter how good security is. if you really wanted to, you could hijack a plane today -the day after- and do it again. all it takes is desire and the ability to appear menacing. you can hijack a plane with a fucking handfull of pencils if you want it bad enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*see-phore* Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 the sad thing is that the suicide bombers won.the last they saw was pain and suffering they caused,and you cant punish the dead.they won their world is over and they had the upper hand when it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I don't know about that plane in PA. None of the news networks are really saying anything at all about it....It makes me think that there's something behind it. Also, I'm not usually one of the people who gets scared when things like this happen. I usually try to look for the positive, but the thoughts of a third world war make me want to cry in frustration. It scares me, and I do not want it to happen. Basically that's the major thought in my mind. Also the whole 'we will destroy the terrorist group and anybody, and any country that aided them' deal scares me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.LonelyHeart Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by *see-phore*: the sad thing is that the suicide bombers won.the last they saw was pain and suffering they caused,and you cant punish the dead.they won their world is over and they had the upper hand when it happened. Hey...sometimes with shit like this, if you believe in an afterlife or some kind of cosmic justice -that's the only way to find real peace of mind. Just figure that fucks like those get dealt with for real...as in, divine judgement, and not by some bullshit justice system, government or whatever...and that goes for any other kind of injustice, too. ...just my two catholic cents. and for anybody badmouthing religion, please keep in mind that most religions do not support killing at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown twinkie Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 sorry webster, hold your head dood.... . this whole thing is so crazy......i spent my whole day glued to my headphones(tv is busted)....and this day probably won't be much different..... one of the things thats really freakin' me out is the repercussion.....the placement of america's anger........where is it going? this is such a major, majorly dicey situation.......... especially for bush.......to decide how to place this anger.......right now afghanistan is basically pleading for their lives.....officially....not to bomb the fuck out of them..................... is it going to be satisfactory not to use deadly force???? or is it building up to a big bombing campaign of vented anger?????.... .....its beyond words..................so much information to be processed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I'm impressed by the bravery and compassion exhibited by those directly involved ------------------ 2 Can Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WebsterUno Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I have a military family, Im one of the ones that said, "fuck that, you wont catch me up in there!" Now I feel fucked up, I have a few, like more than 4, in the service. I was feeling like I should be there by my cousins side, hes like my brother, we wrote together, messed with girls together, drank together, and bombed together. My girl cousins are Air Force and Navy officers, my aunt and uncle are military doctors…damn…I just dont know how to feel. I feel sorry for those poor people that jumped out those windows, I hope everyone is ok. I havent cried for a couple years (like 5), no kidding, I did yesterday, thinking about how my cuzz would take this. Hes the type that probably got amped up to defend our country, and our people, family etc, but to get a message like that, Im sure it shot him down. It sucks cuzz getting through to him during this time was hard enough, he was the last to know, and its his mom. Thanx for your support fellas, and I wish you all the best. Take Care… websteruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskoner Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 i enjoy thinking things like, "man, i am glad that my 3month old niece has no idea what is going on..." it is so complexing that there is actually life beyond this tragedy... oblivious, rather than ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup99usa Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by bobobi11: I think that is why the plane in PA crashed where it did. Not to take anything away from any of the other victims, the people on that plane that somehow managed to divert that plane from it's intended target are heroes. How many more lives would have been lost if they had crashed into yet another building? You have to think about one think. Look at how many people were on those planes. Most of the flights had under 75 people. On a tuesday mourning going to LA. Thats real strange and it sounds like most of the passangers were well off. A lot of those people were never put in a situation to defend themselves in a street brawl and won't know how. When these terrorists picked these planes they knew that. That in my opinion was why it was easy for them to take it over. Plus I'm sure these guys trained for this for months only Bruce Willis in Die Hard could of stopped them and I don't think that's likely. [This message has been edited by coup99usa (edited 09-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by brown twinkie: this whole thing is so crazy......i spent my whole day glued to my headphones........so much information to be processed.... yeah i hear you on that.....the president stating last night that in the midst of retaliation, civilian losses would be acceptable bothered me.....thats not going to bring these lives back and its not a acceptable means of retaliaton.....hopefully emotions will be put to the side and some sound decisions can be made.....acting on these emotions we are all feeling right now is possibly the worst thing we could do.... ------------------ brick, brick ,brick...thats how i be up against your girlfriends ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Gulianni called the residents of NYC "New Yorkians" and then saying the best way to combat terrorism is to "just not be afraid"... I also understand that it had been a very long day and he had to say SOMETHING... also, the flags at half mast are catching my eye... ------------------ 2 Can Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by Smart: Gulianni called the residents of NYC "New Yorkians" and then saying the best way to combat terrorism is to "just not be afraid"... I also understand that it had been a very long day and he had to say SOMETHING... regardless of what i think about giuliani, i think he has done an amazing job throughout this ordeal. i can't imagine being in his shoes. he missed dieing himself by 10 minutes, has had numerous close friends and collegues die, has to mantain composure all while trying to run the city of the world that just came under one of the largest acts of terrorism. just for today, i applaud him ------------------ Now back to your regularly scheduled re-programming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 yeah, I agree, I actually saw that live at like 3:30am... but it is just one of the things that is sticking in my head, but that is also why I gave him a little excuse at the end... ------------------ 2 Can Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.T Boy Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 this is all to sad. many condolences to those who died, and to those who died trying to save innocent people. another thing, this was well planned out. where they crashed the plane was the achellies heel of the building, that was not a fluke, they must have known where the weak point of the building was to get it to topple like that. if you think it wasnt planned out at all. youre wrong, these people knew what they were doing. its so sad we have to live in a world liek this. i fear for our children, and our grandchildren. r.i.p to all the fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrysamoan Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by beardo: and the other thing that sticks out is that just 12 hours earlier i finished reading 'ishmael' a truely eye opening book about our relationship with mother earth. hey that's a fuckin good book. Daniel quinn is a stupid fuck though....i mean he has some good ideas and shit but he seems to think that all of his ideas are completely original and he seems ultra-egotistical. Still, I liked that book quite a bit. Anarchist John Zerzan writes about similiar issues but in essay-form (about the roots of technology, industrialism, work, etc etc etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by fleshtech: seek knowledge from someone other than a bias media. good call i have been doin this all day, and do this when major news breaks i dont trust our media outlets. dont get me wrong, i check them out but dont rely on them as my sole source of information. in fact, yesterday on the BBC, they were reporting that Bin Laden had been killed a few days ago. maybe not true, but you didnt hear a whisper of that here. i also talked yesterday to someone pretty high up in the intelligence community (damn, i sound like one of those reporters on tv with unnamed sources...) who was confident that the air strikes yesterday in afghanastan (where bin ladin has been given sanctuary and rumored to be staying and based) were from american weapons and that we had attacked kabul, using the guise/excuse/scapegoat of it being just part of afghanastan's civil war. i cant wait for a few years to read the book about the shit that really has happend. just like finding out that president roosevelt had advanced notice of pearl harbor, but needed a reason to get involved in the war, or desert storm syndrome, etc. im not saying that we were trying to get involved in anything yesterday, or even had advanced knowledge. im just saying, i cant wait for ALL the facts to come out. and i dont trust mainstream american media to deliver it. ------------------ Now back to your regularly scheduled re-programming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrysamoan Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by cmeup: i know i would have tried something once i knew that i was going to die anyways. come on, fucking knives? Are you sure that they told the airplane passengers they were going to die anyway? That wouldn't make any sense. Even if they had guns it wouldn't make any sense, cuz if you were gonna die anyway it wouldn't matter if they had guns or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cracked ass Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I have so many small points to make that none of them seems worth the collective effort of a post. I'll plod for a bit anyway. 1.Sonik, I think your estimate of the number of people involved and their budget is too low, as well as the skills necessary to crash the planes as precisely as they did. I've listened to the side reports on the aviation training required and, while takeoff and (normal) landing are the hardest parts, it's still not easy to steer and adjust speed and altitude to the degree necessary for what occurred, especially in the very complex 757 and 767 aircraft versus a dinky turboprop. No ten guys with twenty grand could have pulled this off. I think the upper limit for a group like that would be Oklahoma City size. 2.I agree with those speculating that there were some heroics OR something else going on regarding the flight that crashed in PA. That was obviously not the terrorists' target. I find the deep rural character of where it went down though to be a bit suspicious in the sense that it could have been shot down by US military - that's where they'd do it if they were going to. I'm not sure I disapprove of that policy either, as horrific as it sounds - if they knew several planes had already been commandeered and used as bombs at high profile targets, they had to believe that the terrorists had control of the aircraft and were planning to hit another big target, so shooting it down over a deserted area keeps the casualties as low as was possible. Nobody on that plane had a chance (except to overpower the hijackers). 3.I forget the rest of my points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 ...just heard a report that they confirmed passengers knew what was going on and overpowered the terrorist and ditched the plane...if this is true i cant think of a better definition of hero...also i just heard a rumor of 4 unaccounted planes, making a grand total of 8...the fbi has confirmed this but will not say anything more...early reports is that they were gunning for airforce 1 for a midair crash...insane...r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 seriously dude, please, i gave you your own topic to put all this stuff, its appreciated, but i think it can serve better in its own thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cracked ass Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Samoan brings up another one, about the knives. No doubt the terrorists A) used the layout of the plane and intimidation factors to their advantage and B) told the passengers whatever lie would make them the most cooperative or passive. A)There's not a lot of room to maneuver on foot, even in a jumbo jet. So hijackers being outnumbered isn't a problem, because even if passengers had the balls to fight they can't all surround the terrorists. One guy with a box cutter (who will intimidate with the aura of being well trained in hand-to-hand combat) can block one whole aisle - who wants to be the first in line, unarmed, to take this guy on? B)Telling people they're going to die no matter what brings out the hero in them, so the terrorists would have either told them a story about trading their lives for some usual hostage deal, or told them nothing, which in either case keeps passenger hope alive and makes people (especially ordinary 9-to-5ers) hesitant to resort to desperate measures. They also could have killed the pilots right away and then said "we're the only people who can fly this plane now, so chill out or we all die". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 ......pilots who took over the planes were trained in the good old US of A....unfucking belivable....r WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Some of the hijackers who commandeered planes used in terror attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were trained as pilots in the United States, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft said on Wednesday. "A number of the suspected hijackers were trained as pilots in United States," Ashcroft told reporters. "Four planes were hijacked by between three to six individuals per plane, using knives and box-cutters and in some cases making threats," Ashcroft said. He said the attackers also targeted the White House and Air Force One. These targets were not hit but the World Trade Center towers in New York City were toppled and the Pentagon was gashed and set aflame. A fourth hijacked plane crashed in Pennsylvania. At the same news conference, FBI Director Robert Mueller denied reports that arrests had been made in the case, but said a few people were being detained on questions about their immigration status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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