Abracadabra Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted my ME! you fuckers disclaimer: this is only a very simple explaination for what i believe (or the best i could come up with without writing a novel). please keep in mind i go through this in my head every now and then and am very far from even figuring out 0.00000000000000000000000000000001% of the mysteries of the universe. but this is what i have so far: i have come to the conclusion that i believe "god" to be the energy that is present in every cell, molecule and atom in the universe. "god" created the universe - well, we now realised it was energy that did that. therefore god=energy. religion is our (man's) way of putting a human face/name on this energy, and worshipping this "god" is an outdated and pretty silly idea. i believe "god" is to be appreciated and respected, not worshipped. [/bollocks] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 After all that I've learned in life, and all of my experiences of the supernatural, me not believing in god would be like me not believing the earth rotated around the sun. Even a man deeply rooted in empirical knowledge and experience such as Albert Einstein had to admit in believing in a "Grand Architect" to all of this wonder. My religion goes by many names, it's scientific name is "polytheist". It's birth name is "shaman". I also like to use more colorful terms like: Robert Anton Wilsons: "Guerilla Ontologist" or Hakim Bey's: "Ontological Anarchist" or Bahai or Eclectic Wiccan.... many many names for the same thing. As the old VW Bug owners manual used to say that god and religion are like a multiprismatic jewel and we are all seeing just a different facet and color of the same thing. I believe, basically, in all forms of religion/spirtuality in carrying each a piece of the truth to this giant puzzle of the unfathomable. It is a long, hard, winding, twisting thread, this spiritual journey in search of the truth. Every prophet who has set out to seek "enlightenment" or "ecstacy" or whatever you want to call it can only teach you so much as the mind is only capable of comprehending so much especially in such crude mediums of communication. Not only that but from the onset evil is out to get the prophets and/or their message and/or their followers. Such is the case with our (assuming you are of european descent or influence) most familiar religious figure - Jesus. From the onset the forces of evil were out to get Jesus. The forces of evil in this case being the powerful rabbis in the area who didn't like the enormous following that Jesus was amassing. So in the book of John they got the people to vote for his crucifixion. What we don't know is that his precious words not long after his death were beginning to be corrupted and spread far and wide by the church of pergamum (catholicism) who found this freshly seeded religion of christianity as an excellent vehicle for their desires of greed and conquest (much as the earlier rabbis felt but were directly confrontational with jesus because of the immediate threat). Many of the books of the bible have been altered, and some left out completely. The same thing happened with Mohammed for even before his death his religion bifurcated into two by his own sons. The same thing happened with buddahs as many became outcasts and were not accepted into kings courts and what not. They were seen as heretics. Siddhartha said that we can only look to him for guidance, ultimately it is up to us. And in bahai, the founder was tortured and they even killed him as well, but he managed to sneak his message out to the world. Wasn't Ghandi and the Dali Lama as well both exiled from many countries? Yet they only sought peace and unity. So religion has always by nature been revolutionary and challenged the status quo and established order. What we have now as organized religion is a watered down version meant to control people primarily. But don't let this, what you know to be wrong, and know to be impossible, and you know to be a bogus lie, don't let this distort YOUR idea of god. The devil is a liar, man is the devil, our weakness, our physicality, our materiality (as opposed to the spiritual) is our fall from grace. The fact that we are frail, fallible beings, susceptible to all these lies, and brainwashing, and trickery, and all else. God is real. For god is as real as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I told yall before, and I'll tell you again, if you want to know about god and religion, and nations and languages ..... READ THIS BOOK Anacalypsis - An attempt to draw aside the veil of The Saitic Isis or an inquiry into the origin of languages, nations, and religions. By - Godfrey Higgins Esq. It will probably fly over the heads of most everyone in here as well as 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the population of the world but I guarantee that no matter what reading level you are, what degree you have, how many degrees you have, you WILL learn SOMETHING from this book. More than likely you will learn EVERYTHING from this book. This is by far the most profound book I have ever laid my grubby information pirating hands on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 glad to see i sparked some interesting conversation. we all need it. after all, we are human. Crimson is right, we walk around in our little animated meat sacks and question everything....i think to truely rise above, you have to stop questioning things. there are miracles every single day of our lives, we wake up in the morning, that's one, we encounter knowledge, and hopefully learn something, that's two, and we have love of others...love is a miracle...chemical process and otherwise. sometimes we just ignore or fail to see these things as miracles. life itself is a miracle, the sun rising...holy shit! wow! fucking look at that! there's a giant star that provides us with life giving energy! things die and fertilize the earth! things grow from that shit! wtf!!!! it's amazing. think about that stuff...or this, your niece or nephew or your own kid being born...those are the truest miracles. you know, we all live in this society...we can choose to ignore the ugly or we can learn from it. same goes with the beauty. those are all, after all, god...or part of god. the closer you get to realizing that there is something that makes it all one and seperate at the same time, the closer you are to knowing god, in my humble opinion. so, anyway, get your dance on, get your drink on, get your freak on before it's all gone!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Re: Dee's reply to cracked... Although I do believe that everything in the Universe is scientifically explainable and quantifiable (read: science will be able to answer all questions in time), it doesn't make the Universe any less miraculous or spiritual in my eyes. Like Cracked, I find science to be highly spiritual and ethereally beautiful... I don't think the concept of "spiritualism" has to necessarily be accompanied with the concept of "faith". Nevertheless, I do believe in a Creator, I have no question whatsoever of its existence, and its a personal conclusion I have arrived through purely scientific study (keyword: personal... other people may derive different conclusions from the same set of data). Whether it is or not conscious and intelligent is another issue... one in which so far I lean towards "is". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Oh, and I left out an important part cause I got carried away with the whole science issue... In terms of spirituality, I've chosen the life of Jesus, the overall meaning of his teachings, and the examples he set as the spiritual and moral guidelines for my own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro Whether it is or not conscious and intelligent is another issue... one in which so far I lean towards "is".] hmmm..... wasnt that the Bill Clinton thing? define 'is' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by Kilo7- define 'is' "Read my lips kid, the Typical Cat is sickest If you think not redefine what your definition of 'is' is" I meant "the creator IS intelligent and conscious" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 A+ "Is" to me would be the music with out words. The abstract art. The feeling of dejavu. The mystery of programming your VCR. The infinitely inexpressible, that can only be experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaztlove Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 well, someone said 'man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle'... I've also heard that the word religion is rooted in some word or phrase that refers to constriction of the mind, I can't verify this though, but props to you casek for using the term 'spirituality'... I can't help but believe that something exists beyond my comprehension. if the universe really did come from an infinitely dense ball of matter then where the fuck did that infinitely dense ball of matter come from? on a slightly related note, I've heard some folks say they believe mathematics to be the essence of the universe or some such shit, but I'm personally of the belief that we impose system on a chaotic world, and that everytime something new is 'discovered' the whole body of knowledge and the way we understand the world changes (peep this book 'The Day the Universe Changed' by James Burke, I think its James anyway). sometimes I try to think of, well, you know, other systems, but its impossible 'cause we're all understanding the world through these previously 'discovered' systems and orders and laws and all that shiznit... who knows? i dont know, thats my 1/2 cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo bob Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by Cracked Ass Knocking the major religions is so easy for me, but there's only so much time in the day so I'll keep my input positive. I wish I could find a link to the article, it was in Discover magazine, which is an excellent science-for-laymen mag of decent depth. Carl Sagan's widow, Ann Druyan, said some very succinct things that I could not have said better myself. The short version is that any kind of "faith" is unnecessary, and that the major religions jump to conclusions about life and our origins. They also think they have a monopoly on spirituality. Druyan's take is that science itself has a strong spiritual component: you are attempting to discover, using your five senses and the tools and intelligence of everyone who has come before you in this quest, who we are and where we come from and why we're here. There's plenty of spirituality in walking up a wooded hill at midnight and looking at the stars and feeling small but alive. There's plenty of spirituality in studying chemistry and biology and physics in a better attempt to understand humanity and the universe, even if you can't expect to get all the answers in your lifetime. And here's her other observation: science is purer than any religious dogma, because you receive the highest awards for DISPROVING what everybody used to think. That is real progress, versus the obstinate, unchanging Scripture (or whatever dogma) which keeps running into problems with needing to be updated. Furthermore - and this is my own idea - a lot of religions preach humility, yet claim to know all the answers, and discriminate against and go to war with rival factions. How is that humble? Real humility is dedicating your life to scientific discovery knowing at best you'll make a drop in the bucket's worth of knowledge contribution to the ongoing quest. You don't need to study history, psychology, and human behavior very long to come up with strong evidence that humans are imperfect, confused, and neurotic beings who invented god and all his trappings to counter their terrible fear of the unknown. Rather than cling to a fabricated story, why not try to find the answers yourself? That is the spirituality of science. whats interesting about these discussions is that so often people come to a conclusion along the lines of science and religion being mutually exclusive, when they may be completely complimentary. i took a class that was based entirely around the debate of science 'vs' religion and if anything it has made me less sure of what i believe. i guess i kind of believe that science and religion offer two completely different (yet complimentary) ways of viewing and knowing the world. i agree that science is incredibly powerful in helping to understand the universe, however i think religion is equally powerful in helping people to understand themselves. a good example i remember someone making was "if you had a gun, scientific experiments could tell you absolutely everything about what would happen physically if you were to shoot a fellow experimentor, but it couldn't offer any insight into whether or not it is morally right to pull the trigger." i guess that's where religion (theoretically) takes up the slack, in ethical and moral guidance. i'm not sure if this sounds totally clear but i think its an interesting argument for the two being complimentary. another interesting point is that a lot of scientists are actually devoutly religious. i remember reading an article by a biochemist who also happened to be a priest. in the article he said something to the effect that when you start to see the complexity and order at the molecular level and atomic level, it just seems too perfect to have been by chance. i'd recommend "the tao of physics" to anyone who finds this stuff interesting; it draws a lot of parallels between eastern philosophy and modern subatomic physics. sorry this is all really disjointed and what not but it's fun stuff to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by Cracked Ass Knocking the major religions is so easy for me, but there's only so much time in the day so I'll keep my input positive. I wish I could find a link to the article, it was in Discover magazine, which is an excellent science-for-laymen mag of decent depth. Carl Sagan's widow, Ann Druyan, said some very succinct things that I could not have said better myself. The short version is that any kind of "faith" is unnecessary, and that the major religions jump to conclusions about life and our origins. They also think they have a monopoly on spirituality. Druyan's take is that science itself has a strong spiritual component: you are attempting to discover, using your five senses and the tools and intelligence of everyone who has come before you in this quest, who we are and where we come from and why we're here. There's plenty of spirituality in walking up a wooded hill at midnight and looking at the stars and feeling small but alive. There's plenty of spirituality in studying chemistry and biology and physics in a better attempt to understand humanity and the universe, even if you can't expect to get all the answers in your lifetime. And here's her other observation: science is purer than any religious dogma, because you receive the highest awards for DISPROVING what everybody used to think. That is real progress, versus the obstinate, unchanging Scripture (or whatever dogma) which keeps running into problems with needing to be updated. Furthermore - and this is my own idea - a lot of religions preach humility, yet claim to know all the answers, and discriminate against and go to war with rival factions. How is that humble? Real humility is dedicating your life to scientific discovery knowing at best you'll make a drop in the bucket's worth of knowledge contribution to the ongoing quest. You don't need to study history, psychology, and human behavior very long to come up with strong evidence that humans are imperfect, confused, and neurotic beings who invented god and all his trappings to counter their terrible fear of the unknown. Rather than cling to a fabricated story, why not try to find the answers yourself? That is the spirituality of science. SHAZAAAAM! thats what im saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaztlove Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by banjo bob whats interesting about these discussions is that so often people come to a conclusion along the lines of science and religion being mutually exclusive, when they may be completely complimentary. WHAM! BAM! bob you enlightened ass mowefuckah you! :king: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kidlugz Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Re: Crimson Originally posted by 0scarmire God is an escape used by the weak to understand and cope with events that prove too difficult for their own pathetic reasoning systems. I would say that religion is mainly a crutch for simpletons. better sentencing for you? it's easy to disregard faith in a higher being when you're young and haven't yet experienced the bitter taste life often squeezes out. let's suppose you're 50 years old. you've recently gone through a messy divorce, you're relationship with you're children and other relatives are weak, and you're in jeoporady of losing your job. in short, life has hit the skids and things are looking pretty bleek. what do you do? i think it's during times like this faith and religion start to make more sense. you are human afterall and despite what you think now, everybody needs some reassurance, something to hold onto during times of complete and utter loss. forgive me if i'm incorrect, but you're essentially saying that weakness, which is a defining human trait, and the subsequent inability to deal with said weakness on your own, makes you a simpleton. i think that's a bit harsh. a couple months back i experienced a really bad heart palpatation. for those of you that don't know what that is: it's essentially an irregular heartbeat that if left unchecked would most certainly result in death. most people that suffer major palpatations are gereatrics with cardiovascular problems. i'm 24. i found myself lying on some fucking gurney for 12 hours (after they stopped my heart and restarted it with a 200 joule electric jolt) going through all the possibilities of what lay beyond death. let me tell you my friends, you can theorize all you want about life and death and what it means to you, but when it's staring you right in the face it's a whole different story. i think that until you've really gone over what faith and religion are, and how they possibly relate to your life, you shouldn't make any sort of absolute statements like the one above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duh-rye-won Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Re: Crimson Originally posted by 0scarmire God is an escape used by the weak to understand and cope with events that prove too difficult for their own pathetic reasoning systems. I would say that religion is mainly a crutch for simpletons. better sentencing for you? i would say that making blanket statements like this makes you the simpleton. i'm not religious. but i know that there are some people who are that are also a hell of a lot smarter than me. and DEFINITELY smarter than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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