Cracked Ass Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I'm one of those people this year who: -voted for Nader in 2000 late in the day, after making sure Gore would carry my state -wants third party but -will vote for the democrat in November because -Bush has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 watching him follow schwarzenneger was [sadly] the highlight of my weekend. at least the guy has the balls to say what few else will. the critique of the american 'democratic' system needs to be heard. the country should be re-evaluating itself. corporations have taken over. i burst out laughing when he said Bush was a corporation posing as a human being. but i'll be voting for AnyoneButBush 2004. i've realized that it's not only the politicians who are to blame here. millions of americans don't vote and couldn't care less. millions more are happy with the status quo, in fact, they want more of bush. this scares me. bush may have stolen the last election, but he still got 49% of the popular vote. what is that saying about the american public? nothing good. the 'people' don't want someone like kucinich or nader or even dean. people don't care about accountability, responsibility, all that booshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorSeven Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 cracked: I am glad to hear how you carried yourself 4 years ago...I agree with you- atleast not every american is dumb enough to let bush walk in office again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 interesting.... Dean has already filled the role of 'hate-bush-and-burnout' candidate, so the democratic party has been much more unified after all that whet down. They dont need another 'firestarter' to mess with bush. I only hope Nader can be a 'by any means' anti-bush candidate. You know the type who will not answer questions but just poke holes in Bush so that the Demos dont have to be on the attack. Someone used the term 'kamikaze' and that's exactly what he should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HESHIANDET Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 what a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 listening to an interview with nader right now...he says that he will focus his attacks on the current administration, not on the democratic candidate, unless the democrats try to challenge him, in which case he'll defend his position, but he wont actively try to discredit them. you have to have a little bit of faith in nader. he might be over the top, idealistic and even a might bit insane, but he's also spent his entire life fighting for the people...maybe it's to a fault, but i'll trust he knows what he's doing till i see specific evidence otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveboxcars Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 What makes any of you think your votes will matter this year as opposed to 2000? Well, I'm still voting for whichever dem is most popular.. but really, what's to stop bush from doing it all over again, in light of this "war on terrorism" he would have better footing to back himself stealing the election for a second time.. I mean, in 2000 he did it and people barely shook a stick at him. And don't give me that "I'm sure people wont allow it this time around".. that's bullshit, it will just be the "well, he did it again" response with several marches and rallies that accomplish nothing... except people getting to work late because they have to take a detour around the march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.testical Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 wants to legalize marijuana..... im all for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveboxcars Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Originally posted by dr.testical wants to legalize marijuana..... im all for him Thank god you are looking at the real issues here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorSeven Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Voting for nader puts bush in office for sure. Thats going to be fact, it was in 2000 and thanks to stupidity, i bet most people who voted for Bush in 2000 are voting him again. It has to be whoever gets bush out of office and Nader will just be a democractic vote stealer.... As much as I am for the legalization of marijuana, human rights are far too much to sacrifice for that. As long as Bush is in power, Millions of Americans will be without equal rights...- Think about it. Its amazing that a 'Free Country' has so many of its citizens being discriminated against by its own Governement that is supposed to represent the people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 Originally posted by E MARTYR but are you voting for a democrat no matter what, or do you know? For the TX Democratic Primary (part of the selection process that determines who the Democratic nominee will be for the general election [the one in November]), I have yet to make up my mind. There are currently two "main" candidates left - Kerry and Edwards. Dean dropped out last week [although his name is still on the ballot, he ceased campaigning, effectively dropping himself out of the race]. I am currently leaning towards Edwards. For the general election [the big one], I will support whomever the Democratic nominee is. Anybody But Bush. Originally posted by E MARTYR personally i havent looked into the democrats much to make a good decision, and i dont know about bush, i think he's done alright considering everythng he's gone through in office (which might not be true, but i think anyone who came into power when he did would have had a ruff time and thats that...) Well, you should check out what he's done in office. Click here. Give it a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIPPINJUICE Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 If Kerry gets the nomination it might as well be Cheney vs. Bush anyway. If Edwards gets the nomination then maybee i wont vote Nader. P.S. bush diddnt fall into these situations, he made them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by E MARTYR bush didnt cause 9/11... 9/11 should not be justification for ramming 2.5 years of shit policy down our throats. To do so insults and abases the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Wait. Are you talking about war with Afghanistan? Or war with Iraq? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, which throws your theory out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 No green party? Not that it matters. The only green that matters in this system is greenbacks. Kinda funny to think about kamakazi politicians. You know if these weren't "representatives" and this was real life this is equivalent to last ditch efforts of palestinian suicide bombers against a hegemonistic Isreali empire. I don't know about this voting thing. It didn't mean shit in 2000. Never really did believe in it. People are talking about money now. How Deans unique campaign brought together the common people and such and such and how the first quarter he raised more money than any nominee in history. This is about money. Now I suppose I gotta throw my hard earned cash at some rich democrats I don't particularly trust when I could be buying stuff that really makes a difference. Like guns. I don't know. I trust a gun more than a politician. Though I liked nader. He was really about something. You know he was cause he changed the way you thought about things. It wasn't just verbose rhetoric and empty promises. I know that if nader stayed the same if he became president his candlepower would multiply a billionfold and all darkness and deception would be dispelled from the face of the earth. But I guess that's too much to ask for. We always gotta settle for the lesser of two evils. We expect politicians to be corrupt. Sad, sad, sad.... Can't blame the war for bush's problems, he was fucking up before, during and after 9/11. They fucked up in isreal, they fucked up in afghanistan, they fucked up in saudi arabia, they fucked up in sudan, they fucked up in iraq and on and on and on and on.... Sadly enough this is the price we pay for their extravagances. The least we could do is get that pentagon press release over here to the states. Hell, everyone I talked to about it hadn't even heard. A scathing report like that would ban bush to some plantation in south africa where theoretically, he could do less damage. Or maybe he would prefer the nazis in argentina. At any rate we are making many more enemies like this... and they are uniting against a common enemy, namely us. We can't go on like this. The world of a single superpower will be shortlived whether we destroy ourselves or learn to live in peace with a world we can no longer exploit because the world won't stand back and watch as the US acts like some triggerhappy lone yahoo nut cowboy or something. I think we need to recognize that this is not just a failure of Bush. This is a failure of the system that allowed him to do this and failed to penalize him, and the failure of an apathetic people whom I'm not sure can be held responsible really because of the nature of media brainwashing. The pentagon has put their reputations on the line for the greater good, we have to make sure that message reaches the people where it can change things from within. This ought to be what it takes to snap people out of their monotonous droning and excite some fire and passion of life into them. Time will only tell how this will unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ounceaddict Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush I hate it, but its so fucking true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_As_In_Bot Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 only vote for him if you want a chance at surviving this whole global warming crap.. His former running mate Jello Biafra wanted to eradicate all SUV's.. I remember being given a flyer with all the changes he was a gonna make, really great shit like putting all these cops on trial or something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by E MARTYR well, i think people wanted something to happen (we as in our people) we wanted revenge ya know... so bush took action in afganistan... then it moved to iraq, which isnt related to 9-11 parsay... We got "revenge" in Afghanistan. That was a direct retaliation for 9/11 and an attempt to destroy the terrorist training camps that were apparently so readily prevalent throughout the country. You say that Iraq isn't related to 9/11 per se. Not just per se - not related at all. There is no evidence linking them to 9/11. Period. Thus, you cannot use 9/11 as a justification for invading Iraq. Originally posted by E MARTYR ... but you know, thats where the trail lead... or whatever, thats not really my care or point. Once again you're confusing the two issues. The war in Afghanistan didn't "lead" to the war in Iraq. The American people were sold lies in order to justify our invasion. Remember those weapons of mass destruction? Turns out they don't exist. Our entire basis for invading another country was a lie. Five hundred American soldiers died because of a lie. I'm interested now, though. What "trail" led to war with Iraq? Originally posted by E MARTYR im just saying, that youre damned if you do and damned if you dont, when yorue the president. if he didnt goto war, or try to hold someone responsible for 9/11 people would have been pissed to. Especially if a few months later they struck again... We DID hold someone responsible for 9/11! The war in Afghanistan was just that. Iraq is a separate issue. You need to understand that and separate the two in your mind. Originally posted by E MARTYR but, he went for his gut instinct, and what is happening now is the end result of that instinct, and people arent happy. im just pointing out that i dont believe either decision is easy, because you cant win, unless everything goes perfectly according to your plan. and in bush's case, it didnt go perfectly. You seem to imply that we shouldn't hold the president accountable for this actions because his job is hard. There's no fucking doubt it's hard, but how much slack are you ready to give the man? When his plan(s) ends up being total shit, that's when you vote him out of office. You don't give him another four years to try to fix everything he's broken. Originally posted by E MARTYR but who knows what would have happened if we didnt goto war, you dont know... tis my point. You're right - I don't know what would've happened had we not invaded Iraq while justifying our actions with lies. Please respond point by point. Something to chew on: On pace to be the first President since Herbert Hoover (remember the Great Depression) to preside over a net job loss during his administration. Took a $200 billion SURPLUS and turned it into a $500 billion DEFICIT. Took the country to war based on lies. Signed the Patriot Act, which shits all over civil liberties. Has gutted environmental regulations (air, wetlands protection, wilderness protection. Has spent 27% of his presidency on vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fatdave/jobgrowth.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by villain The pentagon has put their reputations on the line for the greater good, we have to make sure that message reaches the people where it can change things from within. This ought to be what it takes to snap people out of their monotonous droning and excite some fire and passion of life into them. Time will only tell how this will unfold. what are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by seeking what are you talking about? http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/...ion/8025845.htm That's all I could figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldBench Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by SenorSeven Voting for nader puts bush in office for sure. Thats going to be fact, it was in 2000 and thanks to stupidity, i bet most people who voted for Bush in 2000 are voting him again. :mad2: :shook: :shook: :sick: :twitch: correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Hahaha, Job "Gowth"... good to know the makers of that graph pay attention to detail. Tease, here's a brief list I've found of "good" stuff Bush has done, from Republican sources: Increased disabled Transportation Programs $145 million over 5 years (24% increase) Increased government spending on education 60% per student Expanded education savings plan limits to $5000 per year Offered $200 million tax breaks to companies that can produce "high mileage" cars $1.2 billion increase (72% increase) in government funding for hydrogen fuel sources $4.9 Billion to national park restoration Lifted caps on Medical savings Accounts Removed double-dividend tax, affected 35 million Americans directly and 120 million Americans indirectly Removed Death Tax, affecting 100 million Americans 91 Million people get income tax breaks 6 million more FAMILIES are now exempt from income taxes altogether Allowed HUD Rental Vouchers for 1st time home purchases. It is paltry, and not unlike lists from the opposition, such as the ongoing "Bush's Resume", highly spun so it sounds better/worse than it actually is. My point: don't trust online lists from blatantly biased sources. But even from the most objective viewpoint possible, the reality is that Bush has done more wrong to te average American (read: us) than good. The guy needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimshot Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Dump bush...forget nader Yea, there is not way in hell that Nader is going to win, he has no chance and he knows it, he seems like the most appealing person to vote for, and i would, if i believed that he actually had a chance. 8,000 people voted for Nader in Folrida in 2000, if 1000 of those votes went Gore then we wouldnt even have to deal with Bush's dumbass. Nader ruined shit for a lot of left wingers in '00 so fuck him and his campaign, he aint gettin my vote. One more thing about how stupid America is (im american so its ok) I think that the system of voting for a president is way outta wack. States have points....? If there was a landslide vote in say, California, once the number of votes on one side surpasses the other by just one vote, the state is declared and polls close, denying about a few million voters of their own votes. It wouldnt be so hard just to add up every single vote casted by every person that voted, its more fair, and simple. It seems like something closer to a state of Democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Re: Dump bush...forget nader Originally posted by Rimshot Yea, there is not way in hell that Nader is going to win, he has no chance and he knows it, he seems like the most appealing person to vote for, and i would, if i believed that he actually had a chance. 8,000 people voted for Nader in Folrida in 2000, if 1000 of those votes went Gore then we wouldnt even have to deal with Bush's dumbass. Actually, Nader got 97,000 votes in Florida. Bush "won" by 537. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 i just dont know. before his meet the press interview i was not in favor of this. after the interview, im not really in favor, but i certainly have a better understanding as to his reasoning. i am listening to him speak and just nodding in agreement. i just dont like it when he gives me a civics lesson. he seems to think we are saying you CANT run, when what we are really saying is DONT run. there is a big difference. but as mentioned, he is right about two party system and he is right about the injustices of the system. but im lost between when do you stand up, and when do you sit down. maybe my ideals went out the door when i read the prince. but it seems to me strategically, ralph may be shooting himself in the foot. he would have a better platform for change if bush wasnt elected, he will displease supporters, ruin credibility, funding could suffer, and all of this means that you and me and the rest of consumers suffer as a result of failed attempt at making a point. is it hubris? i dont think so is it ideals gone awry? maybe i never would think for a second that he would make a good president. presidents dont get things done, ralph does. so ive always thought that his power would be diminshed in a legislative role. ralph serves you and i better as a nat in the horses eye. i was in PIRG at my college, just to add a layer to my sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorSeven Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro Hahaha, Job "Gowth"... good to know the makers of that graph pay attention to detail. Tease, here's a brief list I've found of "good" stuff Bush has done, from Republican sources: Increased disabled Transportation Programs $145 million over 5 years (24% increase) Increased government spending on education 60% per student Expanded education savings plan limits to $5000 per year Offered $200 million tax breaks to companies that can produce "high mileage" cars $1.2 billion increase (72% increase) in government funding for hydrogen fuel sources $4.9 Billion to national park restoration Lifted caps on Medical savings Accounts Removed double-dividend tax, affected 35 million Americans directly and 120 million Americans indirectly Removed Death Tax, affecting 100 million Americans 91 Million people get income tax breaks 6 million more FAMILIES are now exempt from income taxes altogether Allowed HUD Rental Vouchers for 1st time home purchases. It is paltry, and not unlike lists from the opposition, such as the ongoing "Bush's Resume", highly spun so it sounds better/worse than it actually is. My point: don't trust online lists from blatantly biased sources. But even from the most objective viewpoint possible, the reality is that Bush has done more wrong to te average American (read: us) than good. The guy needs to go. good point, especially since the Death Tax is listed as affecting 100 million americans- i wish that was the case then it would mean there are that many extremely wealthy Americans- It only affects the Rich meaning Bush and his Friends- if you're under 200,000.00 a year, its not fucking with you- and most americans are (this is my understanding of the death tax- please inform if im wrong) I am sorry, a few positives sure as hell do not cover up all the negatives- We've got a blatant homophobe in office who can give a shit about equal rights in a country where everyone is equal (so they say). He's induced more job loss than one can imagine. Hes got us so off track from where the US was actually heading (and he wants us to move back years instead of forward). Seperation of Church and State is basically nonexisting now and this is fucking HUGE. Anyone who votes for Bush is basically saying "Hey i like my rights being taken away...." Anyway you look at it, the few good things Bush might have done are irrelevant when it comes down to it. He has done more harm than positive things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriests Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00415574f00000005.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOZACK Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 what an asshole. i'm a bush fan myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Senor - The "death tax," or federal estate tax as it is actually called, has nothing to do with annual income. What it does is tax a decedent's gross estate, minus certain deductions, that one passes onto their heirs upon their death. The estate tax is a progressive taxation system, meaning that the more money you have in your estate, the greater the percentage of taxes you'll be paying. There are, of course, numerous tax avoidance schemes such as trusts, which reduce (significantly) the amount of estate taxes one must pay. Bush "repealed" the estate tax by increasing the exemption amount. Currently, you can die with up to a $1.5 million estate and not have to pay any estate taxes. In will increase again in 2006 [the year of death] to $2 million. In 2010, there is no estate tax whatsoever, so if you have any rich relatives, ask them to die that year. In 2011, it goes back to $1 million. So the estate tax wasn't repealed at all - it was merely slowly phased out until the year 2010. After that, it's back in place for another Congress to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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