bigpoppa.k Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Re: Few things... Originally posted by El Mamerro 1) Getting upset over people calling it "breakdancing" is petty. Get over the fact that people will never call it "bboying" because A) it actually sounds MORE retarded, B) "breakdancing" is actually a much more accurate word in terms of self-description, and C) its way too ingrained for there to be a change in the terminology used by the masses. Feel free to kindly point out the difference to those who don't know, but to reprimand people for it is stupid. I used to get pissed when people called me "breakdancer" until I realized how stupid that is, and how there's absolutely nothing wrong with the word at all... just bboys all butthurt cause the media exploited them. 2) Almost none of breakin' came from capoeira, originally. The vast majority of the moves were originated in the Bronx with no direct capoeira influence, just the same African roots. Capoeira came into the mix with the emergence of hollowbacks by Kid Freeze and later development of the dance... mid-80's or so, after most "capoeira" moves were invented (90's, sweeps, etc.). After that the relationship and parallels are clear, but to say most of bboying came from capoeira is incorrect. 3) The Freshest Kids is an average documentary, not great. It goes in depth into what the life of the original bboys was like and why they got into dancing, but the subject of the actual dance almost isn't treated at all. It's a good primer to learn the history of the pioneers, but in no way will it improve your dancing, just some knowledge for when you play Bboy Trivial Pursuit. I wouldn't put it anywhere close to the level of Style Wars, but then again, it's the only thing out there. 4) A good uprock won't necessarily destroy good power, or the other way around. Just mind who your audience/judges are, and adjust accordingly. no ones getting upset over terminology, and i'm definitely not reprimanding anyone for it, i'm just trying to educate a little bit. bboying, like graf or djing is a culture unto itself and not educating people in the proper foundation is perpetuating the whole mass media bullshit. you start to get movies like "you got served". how many kids are going to start now because of this movie? i can just hope they get served the proper foundation from someone other than this movie. when you're teaching a young buck about writing you can't just send him off not knowing the foundation is a tag, and that a tag is called a tag, or else he'll check the mags and this fantasmical interweb and get all wide-eyed, woozy and weak-kneed because of all the pretty colours and dimentions of all the neato 3d pieces. you can't do 3d properly until you grasp the concept of your letters, your tag. he'll walk around calling throwups - tosses - and he'll call a nice straight letter - a burner. hey man, lets go graffin tonight... there are way to many kids nowadays on this tip, and it goes for bboying too. its one thing for the terminology to evolve to suit the general public, but its completely different to have the people actually doing this shit, or just starting to learn, learn their terminolgy and foundation from the same mass media. its a slippery slope and i just hope more people strap on their ice cleets and dig in. call it what you will, i'm not here to stop anyone, just so long as people know their history. as far as TFK goes, you're right, it could've been a lot better, but hey, its the best movie thats out there and does the job of teaching the foundations better than anything else. StyleWars didn't make me a better writer, but it gave me the knowledge i needed, and the understanding of the foundations to want to become a better writer. Practice is what made me a better writer. The Freshest Kids wasn't made to teach people how to dance, just as StyleWars wasn't made to teach people how to write. They were made to inform about the culture and to educate the uneducated, and thats where the parallels lie. If you've got a 'proper' topknotch judging panel then the guy who can dance, should, always beat out the guy who can't. the crowd shouldn't be playing any part in it. It does sometimes, i know, but it shouldn't. Same with the politics of judging. one guy who's got a really dope uprock routine, some good footwork, a PERFECT windmill, a nice backspin and a nice freeze... another guy who doesn't have any uprocks, or he tries a little but has no rhythm, a little foot work, but goes right in and busts a bunch of airflares and 90's and a freeze... i'd vote guy 1 everytime. all the high flyin bionic gymnastic acrobatic hoopla doesn't matter. he still can't dance. and you can't be doing all that high flyin shit in a tight circle at a club with no judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Dir Sir or Madam, I am a white suburban boy who would like to learn the delicate art of the negro dance style known as "breakdancing". I will pay top dollar for a good instructor to teach me of the various moves, as I would like to show them off to my rich friends at the next country club social. Sincerely, Mark Holmsted III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Yeah, I know what you mean. I've just met one too many heads who will go on endless tirades over how the term "breakdancing" is wrong and evil and spend way too much needless energy on a point that in the end has almost no effect on the dance itself. Personally, the mass media bullshit doesn't concern me at all... regardless of what the masses eat up, the small nucleus of true heads know what's up and keep it alive (as the have through the early 90's already)... I have no problem letting frat boys and ditzy girls and clubs continue thinking it's called "breakdancing". There's only one reason the term is devalued by the scene, and that is resentment for the media and their exploitation of breaking in the 80's... nobody ever stops and thinks "Hmmm... come to think of it, the term 'breakdancing' makes a hell of a lot more sense", because they're blinded by hate for the creators of the term; it's all a little childish to me. The proper term should actually be "rocking", but nobody ever calls it that anymore... Herc named the dancers Bboys and the dance became what the bboys do: bboying, an awkward denomination at best. Nobody calls the other dances "salseroing" or "capoeiristaing", not to mention they don't need two separate terms for each gender (bboying/bgirling). For this reason I usually pick the middle ground and call it "breaking", but I will never frown down upon anyone who wishes to call it "breakdancing". I am keenly against spoonfeeding foundation to new jacks (in terms of history, terminology, and moves) without promoting critical thought about it, and if I have reached certain conclusions about the validity (or lack thereof) of certain elements of foundation, I will let them know this and exhort them to think about these issues. I feel this approach is much more productive and progressive than simply lecturing facts and stories for them to store in their drives like machines. As for TFK, you're right... unfortunately, it's the only thing out there. I was really hyped about this documentary when production was first announced, and to tell you the truth, I really liked it the first time I saw it... but after some mulling it over and subsequent watchings, I began to feel like it was a squandered opportunity to present bboying in an accesible format; the movie is about people, not about the dance. I learned a lot about some of the pioneers of the dance, but I didn't learn almost anything about the dance itself, which I feel is a much more important topic. Nobody watching it for the first time will get an idea of the potential breaking has as an expressive dance or its direction in the future, the concept is merely glanced over in the last 5 minutes or so. In all honesty, it felt like an attempt by old schoolers (who produced the documentary) to fish for respect for themselves without acknowledging what the dance has become. Style Wars is much more focused on the artform itself (through the eyes of select writers) and how it manifests itself than in the individuals who do it (although this topic is also covered in depth), which I believe makes it a superior effort. All in all, like we both agree, TFK is the only one out there that does the job, so I have to recommend it, although I deeply wish there was a better alternative. And as for judging, let's not forget that breakin is a street/party dance, and therefore official panel judging doesn't properly represent an audience. If you're entering a competition, that's another story, but the true best bboy is the one that will work the cypher and ramp up the energy vibe (if you can't do power in a club circle, you don't have enough dominion over the moves to be performing them in the first place). If I were judging, both the people you described would lose, since both sound like they are boring as shit. I don't care much for reckless mechanical power, but neither do I care for rehashed, overdone concepts even if they are done unbelievably tightly... the winner would be the one with the best attitude and vibe, and both of them are capable of achieving this with their particular choices of dancing, and yes, power CAN do this over straight dancing and footwork. A perfect example of this would be paradigm shift that was SEC vs. Havikoro at Freestyle Session 5... Style Elements came out with ill fucking straight dancing and raw bboy flavor, and they were STILL blown away by HK's sheer explosiveness and energy. It was the moment where everybody went "Holy shit!! What the fuck was THAT?!?", and bboying has never been the same ever since. There is only one thing that matters in bboying, and that is VIBE (the "UNGH!")... you can choose to obtain this through style, power, or in the best of cases, both. Neither of them is superior to the other. Make sure those around you feel your shit, and you will feel the love back... that's what makes bboying worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrUnk MoNKeY Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 http://k4m0r.times.lv/breakdance.gif'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr430n5_666 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 http://www.kak.ru/images/archive/13-14/bios/faces-of-bios.jpg'> LARGE SPAGETTI MAN IS FOREVER OWNED BY THE DYING YOUNG CASTLE DORK THAT FONDLED THE DINK OF A MOTHER IN GERMANY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro There is only one thing that matters in bboying, and that is VIBE (the "UNGH!")... Make sure those around you feel your shit, and you will feel the love back... totally totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Parker Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 obviously you all forgot about the b-boy bible..... http://www.sonypictures.com//groups/us/documents/image/gp023752.jpg'> if that doesn't work, you can enter into this freestyle dance battle... http://www.sonypictures.com/groups/us/documents/image/gp031307.gif'> hip-hop, bee-bop..........don't stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effyoo Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Mamerro, you nicely summed up what i so ineloquently tried to say. The vibe is what matters, and I've found that someone that focuses more on the dance rather than the power aspect will always have more of that "ungh!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by effyoo Mamerro, you nicely summed up what i so ineloquently tried to say. The vibe is what matters, and I've found that someone that focuses more on the dance rather than the power aspect will always have more of that "ungh!". Yeah, but what I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily so, at least in my view... a solid, straight power set by Ivan, Mauritzio, or Chino from Breaks Cru can go head-to-head with the dopest tops from anyone. It's easier to feel "soul" from straight dancing, but I believe the "ungh!" goes beyond that. Case in point: IVAN, in my opinion the greatest bboy to ever grace the face of the planet. Look at that clip and tell me with a straight face that guy isn't the embodiment of UNGH. Even with no sound!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Dear lord, that dude was insane. If he wasn't a hardcore gymnast at some point he sure had me fooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Parker Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Ivan= 4ft tall Kujo= 4ft tall i was spinning an event they were showcasing at and i didn't even recognize them cause they were so short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Ivan is also 4ft wide. Dude is built like a brick. He is also completely insane... I was once talking to him outside an afterparty, and mid conversation he completely flips the fuck out, runs to some random passerby, points at the guy's shoes, and starts shouting "THOSE ARE SOME FLY JOINTS MAN!!! FLY JOINTS!!!" Everyone I know who's met him has some similar bizarre story about the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwibxonex Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by gfreshsushi probably the same thing that's wrong with people referring to going out painting as "graffing" or being a "graffer." it irritates the hell out of most people who associate themselves with that scene and spent a little memory figuring out what all the terms meant and how to use them correctly. it pisses me off when people say they're "graffers"... but i also have a decent story about a friend of mine trying to explain what a "throw-up" was to me while we were both really high. whatever. i can't even pogo right... try explaining you're involvement in freight train graff only refer to it as confetti on train cars... good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre$Loco$ Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 didnt Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince have a bboy video out a while ago???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffKid Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 haha that clip was week...same shit over and over...Ivan=dope bboy just watch Stylelements Vs Renegades at the Radiotron...i danced for a good amount of years and ive seen alot of people come and go...and it seems that from the time i stoped dancing shit has blown the fuck up...i know because a few of my homies in and out of state still catch wreck on the regular...from what ive seen people who Rock shit... Jive Turkeys(TX), Sour Patch Kids (AZ), Skill Methodz (FL), Rhythm Bugz (CA), Junk Wartz (IL), Boogie Brats (Canada), Project Corea (Korea), Ground Zero (FL), Style Elements (CA), HaviKoro (TX), Massive Monkies (WA), Rock Force (CA), Full Force (NV), Circle Of Fire (WA), Breaks Crew (NY), Battle Monkeys (CA)...just to name a few. check out any one of these crews and you'll be up to date with what the dance is all about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 mams, i thought i was on the same page as you, but that footage didn't bust my dome like everything else you've posted. i guess i prefer vibe to ungh. don't get me wrong, those were crazy impressive flips and i noticed a couple of cool combo things or whatever...i guess i prefer to see more actual moves that are distinctive(i'm thinking the detours trailer, all the moves were shit i had never seen, and were totally mind boggling), the rest of it was stuff i've seen a million times and a shitlot of flips. ? my ignorance of breaking is showing now..:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 You guys are fucking buggin', Ivan fucking owns this entire shit. No, he's not the most original cat, and yes, the clip is a bit redundant (I can't even see the whole clip, just the first 20 seconds), but Ivan is still the hypest monster to ever hit the floor... his speed and energy are downright uncanny, and even though the clip doesn't show it, he's got some of the nastiest tops ever. That dude completely blew shit wide open when he came out. No one even comes close to matching the guy in sheer energy and explosiveness. I guess you just have to see him in person... when the wind from his mills flatten your pants against your legs, you'll know what I mean. Browner, the Detours guys are dope because they're crazy original and innovative, but with the exception of Kujo, they're not explosive or particularly energetic, and their vibe is a little too intellectual... they're more '"whoa!" than "ungh!". Ivan is like "FUCK!" Another guy to be on the lookout for who hasn't had much exposure is BJ from Knuckleheadz (used to be Stress from Security Crew)... he came out of nowhere at Spinfactor 4 and completely ROASTED the shit out of Abstrak from SKMZ... a guy I thought was pretty much unbeatable. Dude is definitely major UNGH level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro when the wind from his mills flatten your pants against your legs, you'll know what I mean. that sounds a little like a 'tent pitching' metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChupacabra Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Motion Disorderz Crew=dope as hell I had the pleasure of seeing these guys like 3 years ago when they weren't as big, and since then, i've watched them enter numerous competitions in MN and just continue to get more and more out of control. Good mix of power and dope style, and all of them that i've had the pleasure of chilling with have been nice as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffKid Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro You guys are fucking buggin', Ivan fucking owns this entire shit. No, he's not the most original cat, and yes, the clip is a bit redundant (I can't even see the whole clip, just the first 20 seconds), but Ivan is still the hypest monster to ever hit the floor... his speed and energy are downright uncanny, and even though the clip doesn't show it, he's got some of the nastiest tops ever. That dude completely blew shit wide open when he came out. No one even comes close to matching the guy in sheer energy and explosiveness. I guess you just have to see him in person... when the wind from his mills flatten your pants against your legs, you'll know what I mean. Browner, the Detours guys are dope because they're crazy original and innovative, but with the exception of Kujo, they're not explosive or particularly energetic, and their vibe is a little too intellectual... they're more '"whoa!" than "ungh!". Ivan is like "FUCK!" Another guy to be on the lookout for who hasn't had much exposure is BJ from Knuckleheadz (used to be Stress from Security Crew)... he came out of nowhere at Spinfactor 4 and completely ROASTED the shit out of Abstrak from SKMZ... a guy I thought was pretty much unbeatable. Dude is definitely major UNGH level. as far as tops go yeah ivan can groove like a motherfucker..."Ivan fucking owns this entire shit" ummm NO. from what ive heard over time ivan dont even get down as much as he did when he first blew on to the scene....and even less after that whole ivan quit dancing because he had found God episode...dude seems to be on that Event Judge tip as of late...you wanna talk about sheer energy... lil jon (havikoro) can dance all day and all night.. explosiveness off hand id say Benji (division alpha) guy can pull BLOW UPS out his ass all night long....sure ivans got dope tops and dance's with a quickness but you can only watch someone do the same powermoves switched up here and there so many times...nah mean?...im not dissin ivan cause i got love for all bboys...all styles...this dance style not only takes mad practice and mad patience but also mad heart...if youve ever attempted to catch wreck in a cypher you know what i mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGSOE Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro Another guy to be on the lookout for who hasn't had much exposure is BJ from Knuckleheadz (used to be Stress from Security Crew)... he came out of nowhere at Spinfactor 4 and completely ROASTED the shit out of Abstrak from SKMZ... a guy I thought was pretty much unbeatable. Dude is definitely major UNGH level. i've been dancing for over ten years, i won't stop until i'm in a wheelchair. a lot of your opinions are cool, but they are also just that, opinions, unless you dance as well. mamski's got it summed up, except our opinions of those who own right now are a little different. mammser, don't ever forget about storm, or suicidal lifestyle. but fuck europe, i'm an american. but whatever. oh, and i'm from albuquerque, bj has been around for years, voming outta el paso. i've got footage of me and him going at it about 5 years ago, and at that point i got served. you should see his crew he came up with, fonzi, ninja, kenny, and more. i haven't seen bj or fonzi since summit "01, but i was just in el paso about a month ago, and kenny and ninja are ripping it. and to the kid who wanted advice, everything helps, try everything except straight up biting, and remember: ain't nothing to it but to do it... oh yeah, spin factor was ill nice, the boy ruen grudge one-on was tight, southwestcoast beeyotches......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Well, it all boils down to personal opinion. I've always thougth Lil Jon was ill cause he's super all-around, but his stuff suffers BECAUSE he can go on for eternity... it's a bit inconsistent. Benji I of course love, but everyone knows he's a specialist... I'd say he's "crisp" before saying "explosive". Even though the terms seem related, I wouldn't consider a blow up king to be overall explosive... it's a matter of the entire presentation; people like Ivan, Mauritzio, Crumbs... every single thing they do is fucking nuclear. And yeah, Ivan doesn't dance as much anymore, he sticks to organizing and hosting events and his other faith-related issues, but I don't see how that discredits him from holding the top spot in my mind. Jordan doesn't play anymore, does that knock him off the throne? As far as I know, Ivan is still the best person to have executed all elements of the dance (well, and Ken Swift), and contributed heavily to the progression of it (airflare pioneer). But again, that's just the way I personally feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by ragsoe505 mammser, don't ever forget about storm, or suicidal lifestyle. but fuck europe, i'm an american. but whatever. oh yeah, spin factor was ill nice, the boy ruen grudge one-on was tight, southwestcoast beeyotches......... Fuck yeah, Storm is definitely top 5 in my mind. Not to mention he's one of the nicest, most humble bboys ever. And that SF3 battle was sorta weaksauce... I wouldn't even have put it in the video if it wasn't the main selling point. Ruen hadn't gotten back up to 100% after the surgery, Boy shot way past him. And it wasn't really a grudge, those two are good friends. BJ vs. Abstrak the following year though, WHOOO that shit was nuts, totally not expecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffKid Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 STORM (cant forget SWIFT)....overall one of the dopest bboys to ever grace the face of this earth...dude has about 10 different variations of every move out there...and he can pop and lock like a mofo...ken swift a true master of style....all yo homeboys are biters yo wack so was up with that....best line ever...anyone got any new Project Corea footage? holla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGSOE Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 you ever ben to europe, mamms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ^Hahahahaha, that indeed is the best line in the history of the planet. Those Koreans are not human. That is all I'm going to say on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by ragsoe505 you ever ben to europe, mamms? Nope... Hopefully that will change some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 hahaha, dude, i watched it again, and i can see what you're saying..he is a fucking spazz, literally bouncing off walls.. i'm trying to mentally file these names..and the list of videos i gotta get seems to be growing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo bob Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by El Mamerro BJ vs. Abstrak the following year though, WHOOO that shit was nuts, totally not expecting it. i remember that.. that shit was insane.. definitely caught a lot of people off guard.. mamerro do you know if theres gonna be any kind of video from that event? i really wanna see the ben vs omar battle again.. was tight as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 As far as I know, yeah, the promoters are making a video for it, but that's all I know. No idea when it comes out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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