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what is time and eternity?


dosoner

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wow, maybe i should check the post b4 i talk...i guess the question i sent never went through or something?? strange...that was a while ago...my question was SUPPOSED to be that if something travels the speed of light and we arent supposed to be able to detect that...then how do we know what the speed of light is

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hmmm....well the speed of light is, obviously, the speed at which light waves travel, so thats how we know WHAT the speed of light is. Though my guess as to why other things are undetectable at that speed, would be that the certain properties of light that let it "light" things up make it the only thing detectable at such a speed....but i realy dont know

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Im likin this thread. I thinki when an object is thrusted as fast as the speed of light, the object, and object only, would cease to exist. You'd go into a whole other dimension where everything is stopped. The world around you would not know you ever existed. Very interesting stuff about time though...I occasionally ponder on time itself and what it really is. I dont think there is such a time its just something there to make evrything a bit more organized. Same thing with the end of the world...myans say that the next time perios ends december 20, 2012. i think thats bull shit. what if theres no such thing as time, and how do we now were exact with the "real time" of earths destruction? I dunno...i feel like im rambling, sorry

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think of time as just another coordinate to identify the location of any object in space-time. Like to find the location of an object in space you need to know it coordinates on an x and y axis, plus its distance away. to find the location in space-time you need these 3 coordinates, plus its location in time.

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my point was to go against the comment that the world would not exist. i am saying that the object would not exist, due to perception, to the rest of the world. also the rest of the world would not exist, due to the fact that, say a person could handle that speed, you would not be able to see any light, nor hear, smell, etc. all would still exist, but not to each other. in a practical way it would not exist due to no record or being able to still obtain proof of it while it is travaling that speed. although if the object slowed it could be detected by both parties and would have existed the whole time and earth would not have ended at all.

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im sure mny of you have thought of this also.. but here..

 

if the object 'ceases to exist' (cease to exist meaning.. it exists.. but can not be detected by us, and it cannot detect us) then how do we know that these particles that scientists are pushing (for lack of a better word because my mind went blank), trying to reach the speed of light, have not? some one said that scientists made the particles go 99.99% of the speed of light. well. if the particles reached the speed of light, we wouldnt be able to detect them, and apparently when they slow they end up at the same point in 'time' that they left, which means, we will never truly know if you have accelerated a particle to the speed of light, unless we are able to accelerate a human to that speed. and the question has to be asked, is conciousness able to exist at light speed? or would we just end up in a different place as soon as we decelerate, at the same point in 'time' as when we left. i hope this made sense.

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

Edit because my fucking brother thinks its funny to interject the phrase "Did I also mention I love cocks? Sucking the head is the best part." while I'm away from the computer. Anyways...

 

Whether an object ceases or not to exist upon reaching the speed of light is a moot point. This is not a "what if" scenario, it simply can't happen. As Zack Morris stated, to move a particle that fast would require infinite energy, and that just doesn't happen, period, so you can stop worrying about it. The speed of light is a physical constant: If you were to run behind a photon traveling at full speed, even if you reached the same speed it has, it would still travel away from you at the speed of light as if you were standing still.

 

Also, on entropy, Zack kinda does have the gist of it, but maybe a little off (or maybe I just read it wrong). To stay within the room analogy, when your room is neat and clean, and everything is organized, almost any rearrangement will disturb its highly ordered organization. This means it has low entropy. However, if your room is a mess, numerous rearrangements (moving your shoes from here to there, junk mail, etc.) will leave it a mess and therefore not disturb its overall appearance. This accounts for its having high entropy. What's funny is that this seemingly vague characteristic of systems is actually measurable. Entropy is a fully quantitative quantum-mechanical concept that precisely measures the overall disorder of a physical system.

 

Anyways, "Brief History of Time" is ill, no doubt, but physics have come ahead since that book came out. Pick up "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene, it's just as good to read as Hawkins', and it's a lot more up to date. It even includes a chapter that continues entropy and Hawkins' black hole theory and fits it into quantum physics through superstring theory. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

 

[This message has been edited by El Mamerro (edited 09-04-2001).]

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I have been feeling this alot lately..As if time does really stand still..and that I am in this big void space and everything is still and moving simultaneously.I find it intresting to ponder where our measuremnets of time come from..I mean a second just passed..but it meant nothing to me..Time to me rolls more along the lines of my thoughts..How long did it take me to realize I was thinking.How long or short it took my thought process to develop into a space where a "topic" or idea ends in some from of result..like how long it took to think of the color combo on a piece and decided that was it and forced it out of my skull inot realiy on a wall.That type of measurement for myself.

And now I am going to go think about how I can slow my time down....hmmm

 

good topic..bump

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on the subject of entropy....Zack you are wrong in that moving boxes into an organized formation actually does decrease entropy, but at the same time you increase entropy by doing it, it works like this: Say you have a puzzle. If you put this puzle together, you decrease entropy in the universe by 300 points. But at the same time, the heat you give off through bodily functions adds 3,000,000 points to the entropy in teh universe. This works with everything anyone/thing can do to organize something, it always creates more disorder than the amount of order it creates. Also, it is interesting that in our universe, it will be impossible for life to exist after the universe has ceased expansion and begun to implode. this is because about the time our universe begins to shrink, if it does, disorder will have increased so much that organized life forms such as ourselves will not exist, unless a life form somehow manages to survive many many many billion years into the future. Once the universe begins to shrink, time, in the psychological sense, may actually run backwards, as order increases. But im not entirely sure about teh shrinking phase of the universe so ill top talking for now......

 

[This message has been edited by Xeroshoes (edited 09-05-2001).]

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vaguely off topic, anybody read time quake?

about the earth stopping expansion and starting to shrink, so everyone goes back ten years and relives their lives the exact same way, almost like they were performing a play. not scientifically valid, but interesting nonetheless.

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brief history of time

slaughterhouse five

chaos theory

time quake

entropy

 

.......YES......

 

my bedroom should be a study in entropy...this mighte be one of the few threads i actually read through...my head is heavy now...time to smoke a butt and stare into blue skies...i spell time, as tyme when i write, why? because i feel that 'time' is something i create and expereince, and it is relative and based on my perceptions of it i dont follow the common notion of time so why bother spelling it in the common way...seems silly, but really why should my definitons be locked into words with built in preconceptions....i dunno...work sucks....wish we could meet over beers and get drunk and talk all nite....bump for heavy heads and enlightening topics...rOe

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Mental Invalid: thats an interesting take on the psychological arrow of time....but as ive been trying to say, the thermodynamic arrow of time (the direction in which entopy increases) is not based on our perception....although our perception is based on it. But the pychological arrow of time can be malleable. It is interesting to perceive time in different ways, which is certainly possible. Under the influence of pychedelics, I noticed that time traveled in intervals which i controlled. Whenever i decided it was time to check my clock, 15 minutes had passed. sometimes these 15 minutes seemed to last an hour to me, or other times it seemed only to be a few minutes. But as others see it, each interval was only 15 minutes.

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Guest cracked ass

First of all, it's Hawking, not Hawkins.

Second of all, it's drawers, not droors.

Third...

Time will always be tough to really comprehend to humans, because we don't experience nearly enough of it in a lifetime to observe its character changing. You'd have to live for several billion years to notice how time is either nonlinear, or otherwise warping somehow. Physicists agree that in the earliest fraction of a second after the Big Bang, the laws of physics that we understand today were not in place yet, which is another way of saying that we don't have the capacity to understand the real nature of the Big Bang. Humans can't live nearly long enough, or get far enough away from earth, to see time as anything but regular and linear. Picture this: you're one millimeter tall and walking along a giant tape measure one centimeter wide and a billion miles long. In your lifetime you will walk about one kilometer along the tape measure, and will come to know your world as one that is yellow, one centimeter wide, and marked off in black every millimeter. There is no way for you to figure out or understand that the tape measure, a hundred million miles later, is one kilometer wide and glowing green, and at the half billion mile mark it's six hundred miles wide, six hundred meters thick, bright purple with silver trim, and actually loops back to where it started. The changes that occur in the tape measure are so gradual that you never see them and assume there aren't any. That is how humans feel they have a handle on time when they probably don't.

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From what I understand, there are a number of different theories regarding time being linear or non linear and whatnot. But, I'm pretty sure that there is no set STANDARD of time (as in 1 second, etc etc etc, time can be measured differently by different people and whatnot). Many primitive hunter-gatherer peoples don't have the same sense of time that we do today. They only have a sense of sequence rhythmical time. Time really doesn't MATTER except for your perception of it, in my opinion. Strict standards of time occured for greater regulation of the workplace and whatnot, to keep people in line and keep their workschedules productive for the bosses. I forgot what revolution it was, but I remember reading that during it, many people were shooting at the town clocks (it was a long time ago when standardized time was first coming into play).

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