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INK RECIPE SUPERTHREAD


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I just have bad luck with pens and paint not working well together. I guess I should note that as an opinion...I'll go edit it after this. It is a pretty good rule of thumb, though, if you don't have much experience with refilling pens. I've been mixing paint forever, and I'm lucky if I get it right a third of the time...and seeing as how I have worked in a paint store, I should have it down, but I don't...and I'm pretty methodical, to the point of taking notes on ratios and mixes.

 

What's funny, is that I really like the royal blue woodcrafts a lot...I usually use up the blue stuff in them, and then wash them out and refill them with ink.

 

What's your trick to getting your mix to flow and still be opaque? I always seem to add too much solvent, or not enough. And, I try to match the solvent to the paint, too...I'm fine with using ink, but I'm curious now.

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If you look at the woodcraft paint its really thin almost ink cosistancy what I do is go very slowly add a little thinner then repeat until you get the desired flow. Just note different paints are more opaque than others whites tend to be more opaque than say red but if you mix a bit of white into a more translucent color it will go a bit further but you will lose some of the saturation, its a trade off.

 

I use:

Acrylic flow release for acrylic paints.

 

In general if i want to know how to do something like thinning paint I will go to a paint store not home depot and make up some bogus story about wanting to make a custom paint pen for touch up jobs for my mother. Add the mom part it makes them suspect less. No O.G. would talk about being wipped by his mother. You can replace mother with wife/girlfriend.

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ok, so you say no go on the paint in the marker, but what if i thin it down like mad to a pertty much ink consitancy. also if i really dont mind about the nib because i can jusst use a peice of an eraser evertime it dries out, then would it be ok. or is there a problem with thepaint actaully goign throught the nib, or the valve system?

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Originally posted by MAR@Sep 23 2005, 02:00 PM

Oh ok. I forgot to mention that you can get liquid paints and also there are chemicals called opacifiers such as ropaque. I dont know how to use them but I'm sure you can find out with some research.

Oh, I was talking about oil-based stuff...but, maybe I can find some oil-based opacifiers. It's not a big deal to me, but someone here will get some mileage out of them. If I find them, I'll put them here.

 

Most of my fine art is done with Liquitex acrylics and mediums. Also, I use Winsor and Newton gouache and the cheapest gesso I can get...all my blackwork is either Golden Carbon Black Fluid acrylic, or Pelikan black india ink with Speedball pens...I like Robert Simmons sable brushes, too, especially the signpainter set.

 

What do you like to use for fine art?

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ok, i got a few questions about garvey (probably aimed at shai but anyone with knowledge on the subject is welcome to chime in).

 

first of all, my mix is just straight garvey and a couple of drops of brake fluid per marker. ive been strictly hitting stations and insides with this recently (just finally got my hands on some garvey not too long ago). at one station i hit bare metal and a painted surface. i rolled by it the next day and it had a buff attempt thrown at it but was still very visible. i rolled by it a few days later and both were completely gone. the metal is clean and the painted surface is clean (doesnt even appear to have been painted over, just buffed). is that normal? when people talk about garvey staining so hard, is that for only one buff attempt? oh, and since this was a subway station, i know sunlight couldnt have affected anything.

 

as for train insides, i have yet to recatch any of my shit yet but im hoping garvey holds up better on the plastic surfaces found inside the train. i had an idea today and wanted to ask if you have done it before and if it sounds like something that might help with permanence. what if i was to use sandpaper or something to scour the plastic surface before hitting it? would it help it to sink in deeper and make it harder to completely buff? perhaps thats overkill, but i am just unsure how garvey will hold up after seeing how fast it was gone at the stations.

 

one last question... whats the minimum drying time for garvey on various surfaces? by minimum, i mean whats the minimum for it to stain pretty decently? i assume that could have been a factor with the buffed station i talked about but id also just like to know for the hell of it. thanks to anyone with info.

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Originally posted by MAR@Sep 24 2005, 05:28 PM

there are liquid oil based paints they are just harder to find. ropaque i believe is for oil based paints. did you look at the ink recipies in the link kinda curious about them.

I'll PM a few of my mixes to you, but you should know in advance that some of the ingredients are going to be hard to find anywhere...I might have a site to sell that kind of ish on soon, if I get a couple of lucky breaks.
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To deathmetal (Obituary? Broken Hope?)-

 

1)Garvey is as good as any other ink on non-porous surfaces, meaning that if you write with it on metal or enamel, it's gonna come off after the second or third buff. So, everything being equal in this regard, anything I use on metal I would expect to last until they got the right solvent to remove it. Mean streaks seem to be the best thing going, since the only way to remove them is to sand or chisel off the paint. I've heard a little bit about an ink that has an etching component in it that's used for writing on IC boards, but I've never tried it...might be what you're looking for, but it costs $150 a gallon, it's impossible to find (yes, I've tried) and if it's caustic enough to eat into silicon, I'd hate to see what it would do to bare skin....ugh. Brake fluid isn't all it's cracked up to be, btw. I actually found that it's formulated to NOT be corrosive, since if it was, it would eat through brake lines and therefore be more of a liability. I'd add PP (potassium permanganate) or gentian violet since they are actually made to stain surfaces, but I have limited first-hand experience with these and therefore cannot vouch for them, beyond what I've heard here and from friends who have tried them.

 

2)I've thought of sanding stuff before to prime the surface, but I expect transit to get buffed quickly and I'm not sure if it's worth the added effort. It is a good idea, though. I was going to take a piece of griptape and wrap it around my pen, then just give it a few quick swipes before I hit it. How about that?

 

3)XK-70 (Garvey) has an advertised contact dry time of 45-90 seconds. As a rule, I'd take that time and multiply it by ten...so, 15 minutes seems to be a good number. Hope all this helps.

 

And, here is the newest in new in my arsenal (drum roll, please).....

 

[attachmentid=22056]

 

The first bottle is Specialty ink, black acetone base. One of the best inks I've ever found...it's like Pilot, but better. And, I doubt it's made anymore thanks to the EPA.

 

The second one is a can of BLUE marsh. Harbor blue. Need I say more? I'm going out with a mop of this tonight, I think.

 

The little guy is Tria Pantone black process, to refill Chartpaks with.

 

Finally, I have some good GOT-DAMN shit to roll with...I'll post photos of the damage later. :ballcap:

aero.jpg.4c8dadf6dd797851f2bd9d34aed9eae8.jpg

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really nice idea about griptape around the marker. useful for preparing the surface and have some added grip for the marker. i think im going to look into that for sure. also, is there even really any point for me to add that little bit of brakefluid everytime i refill the ink?

 

man i really hope you start up a little online ink store. im sure id be interested in just about everything you would stock. if theres anything i can help you with to get it goin, let me know.

 

and yea, i can definitely get down with some broken hope. other bands im really into are origin, psycroptic, disavowed, deeds of flesh, krisiun, etc etc... graff and metal is kind of a rare mix i suppose.

 

PS - whats your take on this? looks like garvey to me but was wondering what you thought. thats the kinda stain i could live with :)

 

hardstainer1ma.jpg

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Originally posted by shai hulud@Sep 22 2005, 01:13 AM

Don't make fun...

 

No, I've been looking for a good WB silver. Someday when I have "disposable income," I'll go to my local Dick Blick and get some...have you used it to cover anything or on dark paper, and how does the opacity hold up if it's thinned? Let me know if you tested these.

 

[attachmentid=21784]

 

Here's some more- on the right, One-Shot is still the best paint I've ever used. Period. It's what signpainters have used for decades, and use to this day. It comes in dozens of colors, with five different formulas. The two main problems are...1) It's pricey....if you can find it, it's $4 for 4 oz. 2) It contains lead, and is therefore really toxic, but it is 100 % weatherproof...tags I did with it on metal grates are still going strong after three years of sun, rain, and feet. It requires a special "reducer" to thin it correctly, which changes only the fluidity, and not the opacity, so it will work in a mop...however, I only use a little at a time since it eats plastic in a hurry. It will not work in a pen- don't bother. It's worth having if you want to experiment with this...but, I only recommend this paint to people who have some painting/fine art experience, and know how to take precautions with lead paint.

 

On a less serious tip, Odds 'n Ends to the left is great, since it's easy to find, cheap and not as bad for you as One-Shot. It thins with almost anything, but like most oil-based paint, it's tricky to get it thin-but-not-streaky without practice. I usually use a little xylene. Once you get it right, it's a nice, long-lasting opaque paint. It also has a good (40+) color selection. Weatherproof, works well in mops, and can be used to refill some paint pens in a pinch, with varying results.

 

can we just use the regular "odds and ends" just throw that fucker in a pen den i'll work? will is last long time a permenet?? sorry i'm curious.

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Originally posted by whoneedsavet@Sep 28 2005, 02:15 PM

Im from the UK, can I buy potassium permanganate from the chemist? If so what do I want it for lol

All you have to say it's for is to get rid of the parasites in your fishtank. They probably won't ask, unless they are incredibly nosy. If they don't have it, ask them to order it- it's no big deal, since most people would never guess that you would be using it as an ink additive.
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Originally posted by Inhalant+Sep 28 2005, 11:10 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inhalant - Sep 28 2005, 11:10 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-shai hulud@Sep 22 2005, 01:13 AM

Don't make fun...

 

No, I've been looking for a good WB silver. Someday when I have "disposable income," I'll go to my local Dick Blick and get some...have you used it to cover anything or on dark paper, and how does the opacity hold up if it's thinned? Let me know if you tested these.

 

[attachmentid=21784]

 

Here's some more- on the right, One-Shot is still the best paint I've ever used. Period. It's what signpainters have used for decades, and use to this day. It comes in dozens of colors, with five different formulas. The two main problems are...1) It's pricey....if you can find it, it's $4 for 4 oz. 2) It contains lead, and is therefore really toxic, but it is 100 % weatherproof...tags I did with it on metal grates are still going strong after three years of sun, rain, and feet. It requires a special "reducer" to thin it correctly, which changes only the fluidity, and not the opacity, so it will work in a mop...however, I only use a little at a time since it eats plastic in a hurry. It will not work in a pen- don't bother. It's worth having if you want to experiment with this...but, I only recommend this paint to people who have some painting/fine art experience, and know how to take precautions with lead paint.

 

On a less serious tip, Odds 'n Ends to the left is great, since it's easy to find, cheap and not as bad for you as One-Shot. It thins with almost anything, but like most oil-based paint, it's tricky to get it thin-but-not-streaky without practice. I usually use a little xylene. Once you get it right, it's a nice, long-lasting opaque paint. It also has a good (40+) color selection. Weatherproof, works well in mops, and can be used to refill some paint pens in a pinch, with varying results.

 

can we just use the regular "odds and ends" just throw that fucker in a pen den i'll work? will is last long time a permenet?? sorry i'm curious.

[/b]

Wow, good timing! I was here posting when you were....

 

1)No, you have to thin it Odds n' Ends- it's too thick to flow otherwise.

Lately I use japan drier to thin my mix...but, just a little bit, like 5-10 drops for a mop. Which brings me to the next point- use a mop for this mix, it will clog pens and dry out tips. And, it will run for years if left alone, and since it has a plasticizer added, it's a bitch to remove.

 

This stuff takes a few tries to get the mix down. Only use a 1/4 bottle per batch, so you can adjust the mix if it streaks or won't flow.. Use Q-tips to do line tests- when it's opaque, and it flows about the same as chocolate syrup, there you go. Good luck.

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I cracked this really old can of Varathane open last night.

 

[attachmentid=22122]

 

It was still good, forty years later, and a nice, deep midnight blue, so I mied some in a mop with japan drier and tried it...

 

[attachmentid=22126]

 

I love that color, but I need to thin it so it flows better. But, not right now.

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Originally posted by Inhalant@Sep 30 2005, 03:27 AM

thanks man finally a simple mixture i understand. gotta stop by and grab some japan dryer and a shit load of odds and ends. alright man keep dem "SIMPLE" recipes coming.

No problem. Just about any oil-based paint can be reduced this way, so don't limit yourself to Odds N' Ends...Pactra, Varathane, Ronan, Hascolac, Testors, Rusto Industrial and PT, Short Cuts, Kilz, and One-Shot are all brands of Oil based fliud enamels and lacquers I've used and abused. Look for the words, "deep oil-base", "alkyd", and "oil-based enamel" on cans of paint you see around. If you are going to be messing with old paint, be sure to wear a mask and gloves at least part of the time, and use two different containers to mix and store each color...I use Jagermeister bottles, myself. I found that glass is the best way to go for the job.

 

By the way, the only two solvents I ever use are xylene and JD, and JD is becoming the ONLY thinner I'll use. Xylene is too volatile most of the time to accurately mix/thin down paint, it's really toxic, it melts plastic and eventually ruins whatever pen or mop it's put in and you have to use about three times as much xylene as you would japan drier. I've had the same half-pint of JD for two years and I use it all the time. A lot of experienced painters have told me that I'm using the wrong thing, but hey, it works. If you can find it, One Shot reducer does the same thing and doesn't change the opacity of the paint it's added to...but, it's expensive and it's nasty stuff to work with all the same.

 

Most importantly, I only use mops for thinned paint...most pens don't seem to work well, if at all, for me. You might be the exception to that, but I wouldn't put an untested mix in a nice pen unless I had plenty of them in case it fucks up.

 

If you ever get stuck, a lot of hobby shops that sell models or cast iron figures usually have one guy who is a paint guru, and if you keep the conversation and questions limited to model painting, more often than not they'll be happy to help you out...I learned a few useful tricks this way.

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Originally posted by MAR@Sep 29 2005, 09:22 PM

Hey shai id love to see a recipe, pm me if you can.

Here's my latest black ink recipe...it's simple, but the inks I'm using right now are difficult if not downright impossible to find. Some of them are on the Web, though, so if you are good at finding stuff there and persistent enough, you can find them or adequate substitutes.

 

Here it is- I'll explain what each ink is, and what I think it does for the mix. A big hint I can give you is that I only use industrial grade, solvent based stamping inks...That's what all these are sold for, so if you find a good commercial rubber stamp source, you're in. As far as bluffing them into thinking you're legit, that's entirely up to you.

 

Two parts Marsh T-Grade, black- for stencilling boxes and crates. I use this for its flat black color, and the drips.

 

One part Garvey XT-70, black or violet- old school pricing gun/cash register ink- obsolete and hard to find. This is the stain.

 

One part Aero Specialty ink, black- another commercial stamping ink that's acetone based. Rare, and expensive (about $32/pint). This adds opacity, and the acetone evaporates quickly so the ink dries faster.

This is one of my all-time favorites, and highly recommended.

 

Mix all three in a glass bottle by shaking it for a few minutes. Then I add a little japan drier to help it mix and to speed drying.

 

There you go..good luck with finding some of that stuff. BTW, every ine of those inks work really well alone, so don't dump full bottles of them into a batch...I usually make this out of small quantites of leftover ink. Sometimes, other ink goes into the batch, but the first three are the ones you really need to find to copy this mix.

 

Sometimes, I'll add Fiebing's USMC black leather dye for a stain if I have it, but it's also hard to find. Be creative, and don't mix water based ink with solvent inks. That's the biggest rule that no one seems to cover.... :rolleyes:

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