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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: to awnser my own questions....

 

Originally posted by completionz

Last question: ive made ink out of iso alco would there any difference if i used dena alco?

 

Not really. If you look at a Garvey label it has the vinyl alcohols (butyl, iso, etc.) and ethanol. I've used denatured (mixture of wood and grain alcohol) and various vinyl alcohols mixed to make ink. My preference for denatured is the fact that it is about $8 per gallon. It's good for cleanup, good to make ink, good for dissolving additives and many other things. Too bad you can't drink it...

 

Steer clear of the 50% volume "dollar store" isopropyl, though. There's too much water in it. Stick with 70% volume or higher.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by PreTeenBrave

I know this might sound dumb but how do you know if bucket paint is oil based. I can find latex based ones but then there are some that i dont have a clue on and im not sure. Can any one help me out?

 

Good paints should state their composition on the label, e.g., alkyd, oil, enamel, latex, acrylic, etc. If it doesn't, then don't use it.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by Adernaline

don't knock it til you've tried it, that shit staains ;)

my mix - small amount of black nero, garvey & methylene blue.

 

i'll use straight garvey and get back to you though.

 

Good mix. I use half Garvey and half d'Inferno myself. I used straight Nero for a few tags and found that it fades to the dye base rapidly in direct sunlight on metal. Looks kinda kewl, though. However, I tagged some plastic garbage cans on campus here where the buff is brutal. Guess what? After my tags were buffed it just looked like somebody hit it up with a blue marker! And it was shiny, like a blue Marksalot. There's a lot of methyl blue in there -- I'm impressed with Nero, yessir. I wish I could get litres of it somewhere for a reasonable price.

 

Be seeing you.

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It is a recipe thread, after all...

 

Here's my personal ink. I've kept this recipe to myself for the 20 or so odd years I've been using it, so consider yourselves lucky. :D

 

The stuff:

Clean, empty pint jar or two

10 sheets carbon paper (the blue/violet kind, slapnuts)

4oz bottle of Sanford's roll-on purple stamp pad ink

Denatured alcohol

Violet dye (methyl violet, gentian violet -- use your favourite)

 

How to:

1. Shred up the carbon paper. The best way would be to run it through one of those wastebasket shredders, but cutting it up into confetti works too.

2. Put the carbon paper in the pint jar. (Historical note: I used to make this in Mickey's malt liquor bottles.)

3. Fill almost to the top with denatured alcohol. Leave room to shake it.

4. Leave this to sit for at least a week and shake it at least once per day. (I've let it go as long as a month, but a week or two is fine.)

5. Mix 100ml denatured alcohol and about 5g to 10g violet dye in something (I use erlenmyer flasks). Remember to make sure it is dissolved. Shake it, let it sit, shake it -- repeat.

6. Using a paint filter or something like it, filter the carbon ink into your other jar or into your flask with the violet dye. Don't make a mess.

7. Add the whole bottle of stamp pad ink.

8. Shake, shake, shake.

 

Now you know my big secret. This stuff is nasty nasty and purple as all get out. You could make this with lighter fluid (naphtha) instead of alcohol -- I used to, but the DA is just cheaper. You could use another colour of stamp pad ink -- red might be nice. Make certain that you use Sanford's or some other business product and NOT the crappy craft store stamp pad ink (it sucks). The recipe is open for experimentation, so don't be afraid to add DOT-3 or Nero or whatever you want. I use this ink in emptied Poscas and in an older OTR070. You could add some varnish to it and put it in a mop... The possibilities are endless.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by 6OF1

I used straight Nero for a few tags and found that it fades to the dye base rapidly in direct sunlight on metal. Looks kinda kewl, though.

 

i learned this the hard way, and it really disappointed me. i'm not feeling the look.

 

(btw, you get my email?)

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Originally posted by 6OF1

Good mix. I use half Garvey and half d'Inferno myself. I used straight Nero for a few tags and found that it fades to the dye base rapidly in direct sunlight on metal. Looks kinda kewl, though. However, I tagged some plastic garbage cans on campus here where the buff is brutal. Guess what? After my tags were buffed it just looked like somebody hit it up with a blue marker! And it was shiny, like a blue Marksalot. There's a lot of methyl blue in there -- I'm impressed with Nero, yessir. I wish I could get litres of it somewhere for a reasonable price.

 

Be seeing you.

 

would 200 store reciepts work??

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MB and GV are just methylaniline dyes. They're used as laboratory stains, to dye clothes, make ink and used to be used to make some of the older (lake) artists' pigments. However, any and all synthetic dyestuffs are not lightfast. Ever wonder why marker ink fades so fast? Well, it is because the dyes are fugitive, i.e., they fade. That's why no artists' pigments are made with them anymore. Makes one wonder why the label "permanent" is put on so many markers... However, for our purposes we only need the dye to stain the ground (the surface under the ink), since we've mixed our dyestuff with pigment ink. Most good black inks are pigment-based. Preferably carbon! That's why india ink isn't so shabby, if you mix it with dye. OTR HTB is basically an india ink and I think it looks better than just about any other marker ink, except for Montana black. Besides, as HTB illustrates, india ink can be made with alcohol instead of water. Or xylene could be used, etc.

 

 

 

Be seeing you. [/b]

 

MB and GV is one stronger or better than the other?? in other words if i get one should i also get the other if they both basically do the same thing??

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i've been a long time fan of violet garvey xt-70's staining power. i ran accross this other formula they have for froaen foods though, F-300. does anybody know if this is any good. common sense tells you that it will probably be more "permanent" because it's marking a "hard to mark" surface(i.e. frozen stuff)...but i don't want to buy it and be like on some "you shouldn't of bought that shit" tip.

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Originally posted by destroya

i learned this the hard way, and it really disappointed me. i'm not feeling the look.

 

(btw, you get my email?)

 

Don't think I got the email -- try again. Let me know if you need my email address.

 

Yep, I tagged the ubiquitous silver boxes and noticed that in about a month it looked like they were tagged years ago. Ragged and faded.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by TEM

would 200 store reciepts work??

 

If this is serious...

 

The answer is exactly "no". Once the dye has reacted to the ground, it is almost useless. You need carbon paper... If I know what you're talking about here. :confused:

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by completionz

MB and GV is one stronger or better than the other?? in other words if i get one should i also get the other if they both basically do the same thing??

 

Both are strong, brilliant and powerful dyes of the methyl family. The only difference is the colour. That is, blue V violet. It really only depends on which one you like best.

 

As a matter of personal experience, though, it seems like to me that the violets stain surfaces better. This is personal opinion and I don't have any empirical data to back it up, so take with the grain of salt, OK?

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by nozaki

i've been a long time fan of violet garvey xt-70's staining power. i ran accross this other formula they have for froaen foods though, F-300. does anybody know if this is any good. common sense tells you that it will probably be more "permanent" because it's marking a "hard to mark" surface(i.e. frozen stuff)...but i don't want to buy it and be like on some "you shouldn't of bought that shit" tip.

 

Well, their page just says it is "faster drying". I would think that it is the same formula with some faster evaporating solvents as carriers. Besides, XT-70 is "just" a dye-based ink.

 

If anyone is interested, I can post my list of comparative evaporation rates for different solvents. Usually, the faster an ink dries, the less "permanent" it is. That's why I add stamp pad ink to my carbon recipe -- it thickens it up without having to add any useless shit and it lets the ink stay wet on the ground a little longer. The longer the wet dye is in contact with the ground, the better it will stain. Once the dye is dry it is basically dead and waiting to weather away and/or be buffed.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by completionz

So basically if you want stains potass perm is the best.. one question powder or crystals for potency??

 

i would not recommend mixing potassium permanganate with Methyl Violet...oxidizing agents are the only incompatable substances that Methyl Violet has...

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Originally posted by 6OF1

Well, their page just says it is "faster drying". I would think that it is the same formula with some faster evaporating solvents as carriers. Besides, XT-70 is "just" a dye-based ink.

 

If anyone is interested, I can post my list of comparative evaporation rates for different solvents. Usually, the faster an ink dries, the less "permanent" it is. That's why I add stamp pad ink to my carbon recipe -- it thickens it up without having to add any useless shit and it lets the ink stay wet on the ground a little longer. The longer the wet dye is in contact with the ground, the better it will stain. Once the dye is dry it is basically dead and waiting to weather away and/or be buffed.

 

Be seeing you.

 

so i'll obviously stick with my xt-70. thanks

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my recipe i havent tried out yet, i just need to get the stuff:

violet garvey (should be recieving in the mail soon)

blue sanford roll on ink (can get from stationary store)

methylene blue (can get from pet store)

potassium permanganate (might order online)

carbon paper and isopropyl solution (can get at staples)

 

ill get back with the results once i get all this.

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Originally posted by johndoe

my recipe i havent tried out yet, i just need to get the stuff:

violet garvey (should be recieving in the mail soon)

blue sanford roll on ink (can get from stationary store)

methylene blue (can get from pet store)

potassium permanganate (might order online)

carbon paper and isopropyl solution (can get at staples)

 

ill get back with the results once i get all this.

 

let me know how it goes when you mix the methylene blue with the potassium permanganate...it's supposidly not a good thing, but i've never done it

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does anybody's marsh turn into a "coal like" substance after a while? i had a woodcraft filled with straight marsh, and it was sitting around for a month or so untouched...i went to use it and when i shook it i couldn't hear the ink swooshing around, so i opened it...the ink solidified into this coal like substance...like a black rock almost, but really easy to break up...what the fuck is up with that? and i noticed that if i'm hitting a non porious surface with marsh, you can scratch it off after it dries, and it only leaves a BARELY visible ghost...do i have like deffective marsh or something?

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Originally posted by 6OF1

If this is serious...

 

The answer is exactly "no". Once the dye has reacted to the ground, it is almost useless. You need carbon paper... If I know what you're talking about here. :confused:

 

Be seeing you.

 

ok thanks...my friend told me that he heard that you can use reciepts and i was just checking..got myself some carbon paper now...haha thanks.

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Originally posted by nozaki

does anybody's marsh turn into a "coal like" substance after a while? i had a woodcraft filled with straight marsh, and it was sitting around for a month or so untouched...i went to use it and when i shook it i couldn't hear the ink swooshing around, so i opened it...the ink solidified into this coal like substance...like a black rock almost, but really easy to break up...what the fuck is up with that? and i noticed that if i'm hitting a non porious surface with marsh, you can scratch it off after it dries, and it only leaves a BARELY visible ghost...do i have like deffective marsh or something?

 

marsh is rather easy to buff, and doesn't stain, and the best part of it is the look.

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Guest imported_b0b
Originally posted by destroya

marsh is rather easy to buff, and doesn't stain, and the best part of it is the look.

 

Marsh is good for getting tags outisde, as it doesn't fade with the weather. I find inks like fiebings, corio and nero all fade in the elements really quite quickly. So Marsh is good if you getting so cutty tags up, that are gonna run a while.

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SUPER PERMANENT INK WITH ADDITIVE

 

K den

ive used this on london tube lines and seen it running so...

Look in your shed or something for a car product called anti freeze. its a liquid additive made to protect your cars body for two years.

Its pale blue and oily mix 1 part of this with 3 parts leather dye and then any standard ink so that it dries quicker.

This shit is so permanent!!!!!!

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Originally posted by nozaki

i would not recommend mixing potassium permanganate with Methyl Violet...oxidizing agents are the only incompatable substances that Methyl Violet has...

 

Is this true for all the members of the methyl dye group? Methyl violet and blue are in the acid half of the group -- I wonder if potassium permanganate would react with the basic half... :confused:

 

See folks? We got some information flowin'!

 

In the meantime, get up and stay up.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by nozaki

does anybody's marsh turn into a "coal like" substance after a while? i had a woodcraft filled with straight marsh, and it was sitting around for a month or so untouched...i went to use it and when i shook it i couldn't hear the ink swooshing around, so i opened it...the ink solidified into this coal like substance...like a black rock almost, but really easy to break up...what the fuck is up with that? and i noticed that if i'm hitting a non porious surface with marsh, you can scratch it off after it dries, and it only leaves a BARELY visible ghost...do i have like deffective marsh or something?

 

OK, it sounds like yours has had all the solvent evaporate out of it. When you put it into any re-used commercial marker like a ZIG/Posca/Uni/etc., I would wrap some regular "scotch" or electrical tape around it to seal it a bit more. Protects from leaks, too, sez the man with the purple hands...

 

The second part is answered already.

 

Be seeing you.

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Re: ***Hair Dye??***

 

Originally posted by zionpnk

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOD... :idea: :idea: i got some black permanent hair dye mixed cuz i already used some on my hair right and like i wanna kno if that will mix in my paint marker... :o :o

 

Might mix with alcohol based inks and may need coercing with a little acetone.

 

Hair dye is so fugitive that I wouldn't try it on anything, though. Hair is easy to dye -- other surfaces are not.

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by completionz

someone said earlier in the thread that you can get meth blue at pet stores. in what products?

 

I haven't seen a pet store that sells the powder/crystal, but only little bottles of 1% to 4% solution which are useless. It is just called "methylene blue" and if you ask for it they will show it to you. Used to kill fungus in aquariums...

 

Be seeing you.

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Originally posted by brasse hed

SUPER PERMANENT INK WITH ADDITIVE

 

K den

ive used this on london tube lines and seen it running so...

Look in your shed or something for a car product called anti freeze. its a liquid additive made to protect your cars body for two years.

Its pale blue and oily mix 1 part of this with 3 parts leather dye and then any standard ink so that it dries quicker.

This shit is so permanent!!!!!!

 

Do you mean plain old ethylene glycol? Like goes in the radiator? This sounds interesting -- the glycol would definitely retard the drying time somewhat and allow the dye to soak the ground. Get back on this and let me know so I can give it a try.

 

Be seeing you.

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