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old school quotes in new school songs

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Guest WREK

wow, seeking was way off.

 

tearz said pretty much everything though.

 

blacks innovate.....ask the rolling stones. haha.

 

 

 

back to the topic......

i would say just about EVERY emcee that ive heard has repeated a Rakim line at some point in their music. Slick Rick is up there too, on the being sampled tip.

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yeah, i really don't get the racial play into all of this... bb king was booed off the stage of a rolling stones concert; if they subscribed to this "white" perspective on music, they'd appreciate the roots of the stones and get all nerdy over him... and yes, the dj's were fucking nerds, they were the ones that knew what beat came from where.... everyone else just wanted to dance.

 

and bb king will make an album of covers these days cause he's lazy and washed up, but knows blues nerds will eat it up and get him another burger king or pacemaker commercial.

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Originally posted by WREK

wow, seeking was way off.

 

tearz said pretty much everything though.

 

blacks innovate.....ask the rolling stones. haha.

 

you dumb shit. tearz agreed with me, he just went on to explain the 'for the most part' that i didnt want to get into.

 

tearz.

1. white people can look at shit however the want to, but if they have any real interest in understanding it, they have to drop their pre-conceived notions and beliefs, and do their best to look at it from the eyes of the musicians, and the eyes of the community which it is made for, and by. i mean, its not just white people, some black kid from south philly probably is not going to be able to pick up on the subtlties of a hardcore album. not because he lacks the basic intelligence, but because the things its expressing are likely foreign to his world. or even if not the subject, the way in which its presented. liberal white people fucking love to give black people credit for shit. it makes us feel like we're making everything 'OK', by claiming we find merrit in gangster rap. we applaud the applaud the honesty and relate it to all sorts of ancient african traditions... meanwhile most the time all were really doing is talking about some shit that doesnt need to be talked about. 'gangster rap' (IMO) has long since stopped bringing the troubles of the ghetto to an otherwise ignorant audience, and has now began making everyone dumber. it's like a sponge. it's good to clean up spills, but at a certain point, it just gets over saturated and starts making everything wetter. but thats kind of off topic, so ill stop.

 

2. 'for the most part' was stated, pretty much solely because of jazz. as i wrote it, i was thinking of bitches brew and herbie hancock. you have to admit though, that that era was vastly different from the whole of black music. which is not at all to say that any form of black music is better or more relevent than another, just that it has not generally followed those lines. black music, historically speaking, has been about bringing people together. whether it be gospel, blues, jazz, whatever, it's people doing the same things over and over again, which completely serves its purpose, and thus is beautiful in and of itself. the idea that music needs to be 'something else' is a eurocentric, overly intellectual idea. when i said 'simple expression' i was not saying claiming ideas as being simple, or the music, but using simple to mean 'pure', as in, the music was made to express themselves.

 

blah.

im bored of talking about this now.

i want to sleep.

tearz, i agree with everything you said, and had i felt like going so iindepth, i would have said much of the same, i just figured i could glide over that, and just talk shit about white people.

 

seeks/myintrotoletyouknow

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Guest TEARZ

yes.

there is tradition, and innovation.

and the tradition of innovation, which is huge.

 

i don't know what "era" you're speaking of that was different... so i'm not sure...

 

i'm tired too and bored

one big post a day is enough

happy thanksgiving

holla

 

tears/if i were to alter speeds and...

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Guest 455
Originally posted by Coffie Crave

ppl like to use the word ''nigga'' in there raps..soo played out

 

yeah,but it's mostly nerds who think they are "hard"...oh...and suburban white kids that wear Sean John and drive cheap Cadillacs.

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i like it when artists use classic lines. it defies modern copyright profit laws and i think it shows respect to the artist.

 

to me hip hop music is an artform that artists communicate on, so doing a remix of a classic line keeps it alive and those who know the culture will get the inside joke.

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" it makes us feel like we're making everything 'OK', by claiming we find merrit in gangster rap. we applaud the applaud the honesty and relate it to all sorts of ancient african traditions... meanwhile most the time all were really doing is talking about some shit that doesnt need to be talked about. 'gangster rap' (IMO) has long since stopped bringing the troubles of the ghetto to an otherwise ignorant audience, and has now began making everyone dumber. it's like a sponge. it's good to clean up spills, but at a certain point, it just gets over saturated and starts making everything wetter. but thats kind of off topic, so ill stop." -seeking

 

my view on this is that theres two parts of gangstah rap...the raw negativity reality check that is portrayed via the lyrics and then theres the economic aspect. if you drop an albumn even just push a few thousand your first time, your making way more money than a job in your economically deprived situation which is why there is so many white suburban kids that jock it. thats the market, so to me thats all good cause i would rather see sheltered kids embody a negative image they make them selfs look foolish doing and supporting someone who is becoming a self supporting entrepranaur. even if the artist is full of complete media hype, who gives a fuck you know? cause ill tell you what, if he is full of shit and rapping about kilos he never slanged the slangers in his hood he's claiming are laughing and not buying it while the suburban kids are. i mean look at Two Short and E40, they got rich selling it out the trunk. Thats real economic power.

 

totally off topic response but im not trying to contradict you im just giving another view point.

 

btw the way last time i got gangsah, i was drunk as fuck laughing at property owners while getting slammed by cops for tagging in front of them. and a day after that i was getting a whole jail unit applauding me for not giving a fuck and breakdancing when everyone was on free time during 22 hour lock down days. i mean, to understand gangstah you need to understand the career criminal mentallity of the innercity which you can only really understand if you have spent a portion of your life under the control of the system or living in a warzone like enviroment. i spent seven years of my life where i was a ward of the state dropped out of school to live a life of drug abuse and crime. you know, thats the whole "gangstah" mentality to me...not giving a fuck and risking harm to your person cause you dont give a fuck...not neccissarily drug sales and violence. cause theres a lot of drug sales, i mean fuck, the coke supply is the cia dog that are not on the block that needs to be rapped about. and if you think the murder rate here is nasty peep colombias where we support the real killers....thas not gangstah thats genocide. gangstah is not giving a fuck and doing it anyway and not being afraid of what may happen. driving down the wrong side of the street in a honda civic with no grill and no head lights at night is gangsta.

 

ok totally off topic. sorry.

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And now to get WAY off topic... but I just found this and I had to share it... I know you guys didn't want another thread talking about these guys... but this just furthers assures me of how fucked up and enigma-scouring some people actually are... Read and prepare to vomit.

 

 

Excerpt from the Aug.03 issue of Filter:

EL-P: Did Aesop tell you about the movie they wanted him to star in where he was the resurrection of Jesus Christ? [He looks at Ace and smiles, fucking with him.]

 

AESOP: [Mumbles under his breath] Oh, no.

 

EL-P: [Cheerfully] Go ahead. I'll let you tell it.

 

AESOP: [sheepishly] I was offered a part in this movie. It was actually pitched to me as a movie where I was going to be this kid that was rapping. So bottom line, the kid comes to New York, we sit in a meeting, and he tells me, "I rewrote the whole script in the last two weeks and you are now the resurrection of Jesus Christ at the end of the movie."

 

EL-P: [Wanting to milk it for all it's worth] And who was your sidekick?

 

AESOP: [Regretting it] Umm…Jay. Of, uh, Jay and Silent Bob. So I fudged my way through the rest of the meeting and then got out and got on my phone like, "El, you got to hear this shit."

 

EL-P: And what was your name on the movie?

 

AESOP: Uh, Aesop the Prophet. There's a part in the movie where someone says, "There goes Aesop...Aesop the Prophet." [both laugh]

 

EL-P: So it went from him being kind of excited about being involved in the movie to being like "Wait, I'm a white underground rapper who turns out to be the resurrection of Jesus Christ?"

 

AESOP: Yea, I was like, "Hmmm. That might read wrong to the community." As it already is--being a Caucasian rapper--somewhat strange. Let alone being...Christ, in the form of a white rapper.

 

EL-P: [in a deep baritone, as if doing the voice-over for some absurd newsreel] Not only is it clear that Christ was white. But he was very possibly a rapper as well. And if he was a rapper, he'd be doing nerd rap.

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At the risk of being called an analytical white guy, even though the knowlege transcendes race...

 

Quoting your favorite musicians has been a art of musical culture since at least the beginning of the 20th century...

 

At that time, many of the popular tunes possesed similar chord/song structures so the musicians would play one song, then play another, then play the first again with a slight variation and different words, and people ate that shit up in 1900... Scott Joplin (a white guy) figured out a new rythymic take on the classic 4/4 meter... a seemingly sloppy meter called 'Ragtime'.

 

He was the Elvis or Michael Jackson or whatever of his time... the closest thing that era came to producing a world reknown 'top 40' or 'popular' musician... Widely known for writing songs in a 'southern' style; I don't think he ever actually visited the south...

 

Also, the rhythym he applied could be applied to any 4/4 song so many older songs got new life with 'ragged' chords and new lyrics, to better reflect the time in which these new versions were written...

 

This was the proto-jazz...

 

Through the 20's as the new sound emerged it was still MUCH easier (as now) to play songs everyone recognizes so everyone played the popular songs of the day, the emphasis was on arrangement... these were the big band days and everybody had relatively simple parts because the sum of the whole was so much greater, the spotlight was on the 'soloists' when they did their thing and the rest of the band was just filler... as time passed the Rag sound had been softened and it had become 'Swing'

 

 

... At this very time you also had the soloists getting together in much smaller gorups to practice and explore music... using old progressions and sparse bits of the original melodies (perhaps the original samples) they fashioned new songs from old, and eventually a new style.

 

'Be-Bop', Bop is much faster and musically intense than the big band sound... it's like punk rock next to the symphony... 5 guys, one playing drums and one playing bass... the rest playing saxaphone, or trumpet, or guitar, or vibraphobne, or flute or anything got together over old chord progressions, doubled the speed as a rule and soloed the entire time, each adding in snippets of the original work, known as 'quoting'... this often was the only clue the audience had to figuring out if they'd ever heard this song before...

 

As jazz continued to move through new schools, Be-Bop became Hard Bop, replaced by the Cool Jazz of Miles Davis and on and on... but every generation has stolen from, and paid homage to, the previous generation... it's how music works but in the rap community, with the beats and rhymes it seems more apparent to most of you because it's what you are familiar with...

 

The same could be said for Blues songs. I mean, the Beatles did Chuck Berry songs, perhaps ressurecting a career that wasn't always on track, the Rolling Stones did a Robert Johnson song so differently that people thought they'd written it... and Def Squad did Rapper's Delight...

 

Some take snippets, some do covers but... I think now, with the advent of samplers and sample based music we are at the birth of a new age... an age of idiocracy...

 

These days, if you want to sound like a certain song, instead of recreating that feeling with what you have, you simply sample it and add it into the stuff you have...

 

Technology has made music production available to the masses but the masses aren't musicians, even a bunch of musicians you meet aren't musicians... I think it's gonna take a few years to sort itself out...

 

but limiting this to a genre or racial issue is like poking out your eyes and putting carrots in your ears...

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wow.

 

i just like music. i heard a bunch of eminem tracks before he blew up and never knew he was white.

 

my stance on this still remains imitation is flattery and i appreciate some flattering imitation in music, especially hip hop since its orignally based on sampling and rapping.

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Hip hop is alot like folk music in the way that the artists really arent scared to quote, reperform and change song lyrics and get away with it because they consider it a way of respecting old school musics.

 

Not that I condone it, I think folk music works in a totally different way than hip hop. Hip hop has so many different directions I have no idea why any one would want to do any thing more than a hommage to their favorite artists.

 

The amount of quotes el-p stuffs into his lyrics is amazing and alot of people dont pick them up. I know it takes me a little while.

 

 

I dont beleive that putting quotes from other songs into your own works in any other genre except hiphop. So its a kinda unique thing.

 

 

Hip hop dont stop! Haha.

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