serum Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Tesseract sounds like you do, sounds like you're brainwashed i'm not here to piss in boxcar's desire to go to cuba. i want to go to burma but when you have to pay money towards a repressive regime i don't go. brainwashed? since you have the benifit of not growing up as an american thanks for sharing your reasons why you aren't. castro can continue the battle to keep the american values and capitalist system out of cuba at the expense of his people. poverty and repression is wonderful without those darn mcdonalds everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 sarcasm..dope. Anyway, i dont think Burma and Cuba can be compared..unless cnn is your source. Poverty isnt linked to anti-americanism, the whole eastern block is as poor as cuba, did capitalism helped the people in those countries? You just have to face that your knowledge about the subject comes moslty from sources that hate Castro with passion. I can and will go there, please believe i'll be reporting back. oh, and fuck mcdonalds, i guess all your money supports the powers of freedom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by boxcarwilly why the fuck do we have a military prison that would put auschwitz to shame. Whats the percentage of the Middle East's Arabs that we have burned alived in ovens Guantanamo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serum Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 i wasn`t comparing burma and cuba in terms of the US trade embargo`s effect on burma`s poverty. i was comparing them in terms of repressive regimes that shouldn`t be supported with money. i don`t consider amnesty international a large propaganda monster. they inspect all countries. except cuba which they haven`t been to since 1988. castro defeated the former repressive dictator and became an even worse one. i dont need cnn for info just go to florida and see all the cubans that live there. if cuba is some paradise under castro then why are they leaving on a small raft filled with women and children?? just because you disagree with americans far right policy doesnt mean you have to jump to the far left and be in bed with castro smokin cigars. both the american`s policy and castro are causing suffering on the cuban people. i haven`t been to mc donalds in 11 years so stop thinking all american`s diet consist of just fast food. let alone that we all spend money without thinking what it supports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abracadabra Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by T.T Boy that place is so safe. theres fucking guards on every street corner. i walked around drunk as shit downtown with my brother wearing hawaii shorts and cheezy tourist shit and was fine. i've heard this as well. i've heard the locals don't fuck with tourists (muggings etc) cos they know how improtant tourism is to their economy. dudes don't shit where they eat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 No, Castro MUST GO! He's not a good man, not a great leader, he is a charasmatic tyrant. He's done enough to damage Cuba's future as he has comparative good by ousting Batista... TRAVEL BAN ON CUBA TIGHTENED: WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW On March 24, 2003, the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) announced amended regulations on travel to Cuba from the U.S. Though OFAC accepted comments on the regulations until May 23, 2003, there is no formal review process and the regulations go into effect with no real congressional oversight. People to people travel category eliminated The new regulations eliminate non-degree related educational travel to Cuba: the 2nd largest license category of travelers, which combined non-credit educational activities with people-to-people contacts. People-to-people travel was licensed by the previous administration, with the belief that such contacts between the two nations would promote American democratic ideals; this travel policy toward Cuba was modeled after the successful exchanges that took place between the former Soviet Bloc and the United States years ago. * Specifically, the new regulations abolish section 515.565 (B)(2) of OFAC’s Cuban Assets and Control Regulations. Effective March 23rd, “…specific licenses will no longer be granted to sponsor people-to-people educational exchanges to take individuals under their auspices on educational trips to Cuba unrelated to academic coursework.” (OFAC Report for Congress, updated April 22, 2003) The new OFAC regulations will be a major setback for universities, non-profit orgs, professional associations, museums, religious groups, American businesses, continuing education programs, etc. Cuban American restrictions eased The new regulations eased restrictions on the largest category of travelers: Cuban Americans. The definition of a close relative was broadened and the amount of cash remittances a Cuban American may carry to Cuba rose to from $300 to $3,000. The per diem spending limit for Cuban Americans was lifted entirely. Effectively, OFAC has eased conditions under which Cuban-Americans may travel and has narrowed them for most others. This leniency arises from the fact that a majority of Cuban Americans now support lifting the travel ban. Still, many Cuban Americans complain that getting permission for more than one visit--even in extreme cases like death in the family--is too cumbersome and cruel; often these visitors return home illegally, through third countries. New regulations endorse trips with a political agenda Also, the new regulations added language about approved humanitarian trips, endorsing only those with a political purpose. The definition of ‘humanitarian’ is now more defined as specifically supporting dissident groups working toward a transition in Cuba. Rationale and implications of the OFAC changes Taylor Griffin, a Treasury Department spokesman, told the Stanford Daily (May 12, 2003) that the people-to-people category “undermined the intention of the U.S. sanctions against Cuba, which are to deprive the Castro regime of the financial wherewithal to continue to oppress its people." Yet, loosened restrictions on Cuban American travel and remittances insure an increase in hard currency flow to the island. Thus, many analysts argue that the regulations changes amount to little more than cosmetic political payoff. According to an analysis by the Lexington Institute, a conservative Arlington, VA-based think tank, “the [bush] administration has taken no enforcement actions against Cuban-Americans for violations of travel or remittances rules…[however], the treasury penalizes hundreds of other Americans for travel violations every year. The new OFAC policy is discriminatory; it allows the administration broad discretion (and makes it lack transparency), and frankly shows little logic in dealing with the Cuba issue. Ironically, the new policy is hurting those who need it most.” Effects on the Cuban people Restricting people-to-people travel will have a grave effect on the Cuban people and their quality of life. Castro’s own failed economic policies, exacerbated by tough US sanctions, have made it increasingly difficult to survive on the average Cuban income ($15 USD/month). As Cuba turns increasingly to the dollar, the Cuban people are faced with the dilemma of how to get dollars in order to pay for scarce medications and food. More tourists translate into more private gain for the Cuban people (i.e. through private dining/room renting, venture wages -- usually conducted in USD$). These dollars can then be used to supplement meager food rations and an inadequate peso salary. Therefore, people-to-people travel has taken on a crucial role in empowering Cuban individuals financially, making them less dependant on the state, and introducing them gradually free-market enterprise. Citizen diplomacy Many Americans and pro-democracy Cubans alike argue in favor of “Citizen Diplomacy” as the best method of encouraging democratic regime change in Cuba, asserting that “the best way to promote positive openings in a society is to interact with it.” The Cuban people are hungry for news from the outside world, particularly from the United States. No matter their politics, they are eager to talk to Americans in their streets, who provide Cubans with an alternate source of information to the State run media, and the opportunity to learn from a much more diverse range of opinions. An American presence in Cuba will develop ties between the two nations, provide Cubans with access to information and debate, reinforce among them the benefits of democratic leadership, and ultimately, will loosen Castro’s influence and control. * Benefits of engagement to the US economy Travel: Proximity to the US and its Caribbean appeal make Cuba a natural gem for American travelers. However, because of the travel ban, American tour groups, airlines, hotels and other service providers are banned from the Cuban tourism market, one of the fastest growing in the world. Particularly important in the weakened post-9/11 travel industry, service providers are anxious to profit from this market and reverse the losses suffered from our ailing economy. * If the travel restrictions on Cuba were lifted, "U.S. economic output would expand annually by $1.18 billion to $1.61 billion over time. This expansion would create from 16,888 to 23,020 new jobs." [source [pdf]: The Impact on the U.S. Economy of Lifting the Restriction on Travel to Cuba, a 2002 study by the Brattle Group] Does OFAC have the right to eliminate people-to-people? The Trade Sanctions Reform Act (TSRA) of 2000, introduced by Rep. Jo Ann Emerson, codified into law 13 categories of travel to Cuba – one of which was the “people-to-people” category. By proposing these new regulations, OFAC “overstepped its authority in eliminating that category,” claimed Emerson at a May 14th press conference. She maintains, “Congressional intent was to expand travel to Cuba,” and alleges that the executive branch (OFAC) has stepped into legislative jurisdiction - the interpretation and enforcement of law. Therefore, OFAC proposals to change legislation should be considered invalid. What can be done about it Given that the regulations changes have already gone into effect, there is little to be done except to press for a full congressional repeal of the restrictions, as codified under TSRA. Many grassroots organizations and educational institutions have appealed to their local and national elected officials to press for travel to Cuba. Activists also play an important role in educating their local community about the benefits of travel to Cuba by writing articles for newspapers or holding seminars on Cuba in community centers and universities. Congressional initiatives and how you can support them The congressional Cuba working groups announced bicameral, identical legislation to eliminate the travel ban at a May 14th press conference. * The bipartisan Senate bill (S 950), “The Freedom to Travel to Cuba Act,” was introduced Apr. 30, 2003 by Senators Enzi, Baucus and Dorgan. The bill now has 24 co-sponsors. * The bipartisan House bill (HR 2071), “Export Freedom to Cuba Act,” was introduced May 13th by Representatives Flake (R-AZ) and Delahunt (D-MA). Now more than 60 Representatives have signed onto the bill. Call your U.S. senators and representative and encourage them to cosponsor these bills. Most offices will only challenge President Bush on this issue if they are hearing from constituents who favor travel to Cuba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 whoa.... you want cuba open to US economic force? you think that's good for cubans, or just good for the americans and fuck the cubans? you probably don't need reminding, but before '59, succesive US administrations backed the brutal repression of batista and it was all good times. the difference between castro's rule and batista's autocracy is that batista kept cuba open to US capital penetration. i think americans should back the fuck off castro bozack and chill. if somebody tells you something enough times you start believing it. oh, yea i guess he's a baaad man, but hey, take a variety of angles on american leaders, or british leaders, or whomever you want and you'll find somethin' to cry foul about. .or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by serum i wasn`t comparing burma and cuba in terms of the US trade embargo`s effect on burma`s poverty. i was comparing them in terms of repressive regimes that shouldn`t be supported with money. i don`t consider amnesty international a large propaganda monster. they inspect all countries. except cuba which they haven`t been to since 1988. castro defeated the former repressive dictator and became an even worse one. i dont need cnn for info just go to florida and see all the cubans that live there. if cuba is some paradise under castro then why are they leaving on a small raft filled with women and children?? just because you disagree with americans far right policy doesnt mean you have to jump to the far left and be in bed with castro smokin cigars. both the american`s policy and castro are causing suffering on the cuban people. i haven`t been to mc donalds in 11 years so stop thinking all american`s diet consist of just fast food. let alone that we all spend money without thinking what it supports. I cant see how this will ever be a convo but just for the record: First off all, dont play me like i'm antiamerican to the bone no matter what, to me there is an america i love and an america i hate, unfortunatelly the power is in the hands of the second one. I dont have the impression that all americans are stupid little people addicted to junkfood and down for fuckin up the world in their ignorance so step off and stop assuming what i think or believe. I'm giving you specific opinions on specific matters so stick to that. Amnesty international isnt a propaganda monster, reading their papers selectivelly is just wrong though. There are violations of human rights in the states aswell in europe..the so called 'free world'...you think our wars (US and euro) are faught with dignity honesty and respect to people? you think our pollitical scandals are legitimate? or you have the impression theres a big humanitarian effort on our behalf? Furthermore, take a look at the countries that are surviving from monthly US donations in return for their help...Turkey? human rights?...what a joke. Russia is more corrupted now than ever but its all ok since you get to pimp them huh? The whole former eastern block has become wests whorehouse..you think the people of these countries live better now?...its just the illusion of being free just cause you can take a walk in your big enough cage, give me a break. And all you can think is how bad Castro is and how desperate Cubans are, when will you people start caring about your own shit? Your own president won the elections with a fraud and he managed to set the clock 50 years back on an international scale and all you can do is demonise Castro...wanna take down the bad guys? start from your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meateater Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 cuba i no peeps that just got bak and they say yeah for younger peoples touring over there should be safe but be careful and weary.There is police on every corner tho.They were told not to wear any jewelry as it might get ript of yor necks etc. i fell sorry for the cubans they get these thinigs wich are food vouchers 1 person per month gets like 8 eggs 5 pounds of rice 1/2 pound of butter and a 1/2 a ltr of oil no more unless they pay for it. which they only get max $10 U.S a month for there jobs ..dosnt mater wot u work as either lawer,docter,checkout, food stacker wot ever they really have no fredom and they dont no wot is out in the real world there still all driving around in cars from the 50's ....i wish them freedom but lets wait till castro drop of the perch to see wot happends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 LERN HOW 2 SPEL U FUCKING IDOIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meateater Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 what the fuck is up your ass every coment u make is negative lern is spelt LEARN, FUCKWIT and IDIOT! shut ya face you still know what is being said! this isnt some school spelling test! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TEARZ Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 www.insightcuba.com when i lived in DR i was all set to go to cuba... then i ran into some $ problems after breaking my finger (pay in ca$h only)... i've heard good things about insight cuba, check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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