Pentagon Blocks Coverage of Returning Coffins

Dick Quickwood · October 24, 2003

Originally posted by ARCEL
let's go yankees !

Joker · October 25, 2003

You guys are starting to get off topic...

This is becoming more about patriotism and less about media coverage and what they control. Please try to get back on topic or start a patriotism thread...

Just a friendly "poke my head in and see what's jinglin'..." note.

AlQuds · October 25, 2003

rip

having a brain is not a requirement in the military. i have a BA in political science, i know more about you than you know about yourself

KaBar2 · October 26, 2003

AlQuds

People who cannot prevail in a discussion using facts and logic immediately resort to ad hominem attacks, threats and insults. Saddam Hussein was a monster. He was sitting on an ocean of oil. Iraq is a key geopolitical location for the Middle East. It was controlled by a hateful, minority, tribalistic (read: racist) tyranny. Now it's not, because it is under the temporary control of the "coalition" forces (read 95% U.S. and British troops, with a token sprinkling of Polish, Bulgarian, former Soviet etc. troops.) We have no interest in remaining in Iraq forever, but we also do have very strong economic and political reasons for ensuring that it is not in the hands of hate-filled torturers and murderers like Saddam Hussein.

We'll see how it turns out. I predict the Iraqis are fully capable of producing a popular, constitutional republican form of government with democratic representation (and not another fascistic tribal kleptocracy) within five years. Maybe sooner. When they have firm control of the country and have demonstrated they can handle constitutional republicanism, we will board our aircraft and fly home, just as we did in Germany and Japan after WWII. Even though American troops are still guests of the South Korean government, and the Korean War is not officially over, we have seen very impressive South Korean economic and political development since the truce was called in 1951. South Korea is a paradise compared to starving North Korea's dictatorship. Vietnam has not made as much progress, despite their "victory." Grenada is at least not a Cuban puppet. Panama has problems, admittedly. Hopefully, our efforts in Iraq will fare better.

First order of business--get the police forces, courts, judges, and courthouses back on the job. Especially the New Iraqi Police. Next, replace the U.S./coalition armed forces with a new Iraqi Army that is not in the hip pocket of a murderous dictator. Arm the entire country with the plentiful, readily available Kalashnikov rifles, and form a massive democratic, multicultural and multireligion militia that rivals the power of the armed forces. This will form a balance of power to prevent the Army from taking over the government.

Third, make schooling mandatory, secular, free and MODERN. Train massive quantities of new nurses and bring in contract doctors at attractive rates from other Islamic countries. As quickly as possible, began encouraging Iraqi doctors to return to Iraq. Open new medical schools, rebuild and re-equip vandalized hospitals and clinics. Flood the entire country with TV's, DVD players, cell phones, Internet connections, books of all kinds and modern-very-thing-you-can-think-of. The next generation of Iraqi kids needs to be doctors, engineers, scientists, computer scientists, etc. Think "Switzerland in the Middle East." Move branches of American, European and Asian major universities to Iraq to transplant modern ideas directly to the population.

Fourth, flood the country with development capital. Within fifteen years, Iraq should be producing it's own bicycles, motorcycles, washing machines, refrigerators, etc. and preparing to produce an economical car, a la South Korea. Maybe a Iraqi Toyota or an Iraqi Hyundai, something like that.

Fundamentalist Islam is filled with a murderous hatred for everything western and everything modern because of their own failure to prosper economically and socially. So long as the most misogynistic, backwards, medieval elements in Muslim society are permitted to dominate social and cultural life, Islam will remain frustrated and bitter at their inability to keep pace with modern, Western society. The biggest problem is that those people from Islamic counties who wish to live a modern life simply immigrate to the West. This leaves the normal social and political pressure to improve and progress in the hands of the most repressive and backwards elements in Islamic countries. As long as fundamentalist Muslims dominate life in the Middle East, life there will remain unrewarding and unprogressive.

This idea that the U.S. is the evil, racist warmonger is a bunch of bullshit. Wake up. Saddam Hussein was an evil monster, and had all the earmarks of a tin-pot Hitler. He tortured and murdered his political rivals, people he suspected of disloyalty, even the Iraqi Olympic teams, because their performance displeased him. Good riddance. Now, the Iraqis face a lot of challenges, but it is entirely possible that they will develop into the first true democratic republic in the Middle East, besides Israel.

And, a free and democratic Iraq that is not a threat to Iran might foster improved relations between the U.S. and Iran. Younger people in Iran today are far from convinced that the West is bad and that the U.S. is the Great Satan. We're going to get a chance to prove it in Iraq, with the whole world watching over our shoulder.

Everybody who disagrees with the "socialist victimhood" take on the world is not a racist. It's easy to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you are right when you are an adolescent. But when you become an an adult, I bet things seem a little less clearly defined, and the value of traditional, conservative ideas a little more obvious. Or, maybe not.

onesandzeros · October 26, 2003

Re: AlQuds

Originally posted by KaBar2

This idea that the U.S. is the evil, racist warmonger is a bunch of bullshit. Wake up. Saddam Hussein was an evil monster, and had all the earmarks of a tin-pot Hitler. Good riddance. Now, the Iraqis face a lot of challenges, but it is entirely possible that they will develop into the first true democratic republic in the Middle East, besides Israel.

And, a free and democratic Iraq that is not a threat to Iran might foster improved relations between the U.S. and Iran. Young people in Iran today are far from convinced that the West is bad and that the U.S. is the Great Satan. We're going to get a chance to prove it in Iraq, with the whole world watching over our shoulder.

Everybody who disagrees with the "socialist victimhood" take on the world is not a racist. It's easy to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you are right when you are an adolescent. But when you become an an adult, I bet things seem a little less clearly defined, and the value of traditional, conservative ideas a little more obvious. Or, maybe not.

I'm going to work on the assumption that you're an older gentleman, am I wrong? What were your feelings 20 years ago when my man Rummsy was shaking hands with Saddam and we were ok with his use of biological weapons on his enemies? Times change, so do definitions? Do you think at all that all of this really has more to do with the modern aims of PNAC and less to do with freeing the oppressed? Just curious.

As for the subject at hand, I'm not really sure which would be worse, not showing the caskets of the dead, or if the president did show them, he'd probably use it as a photo op to shed crocadile tears.

ps. - The republican hating media?

Poop Man Bob · October 26, 2003

KaBar - it doesn't bother you that going to war was based on lies?

We all know Saddam was a monster - there's no need for the history lesson. But everyone here knows that wasn't the reason for war the Bush administration presented to the United States and the world.

How about a history lesson from me:

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
- Dick Cheney, Vice President

Speech to VFW National Convention
8/26/2002

We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.
- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
CNN Late Edition
9/8/2002

The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas.
- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.
- George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

Iraq is a grave threat to this nation. It desires to acquire and use weapons of mass terror and is run by a despot with a proven record of willingness to use them. Iraq has had 12 years to comply with UN requirements for disarmament and has failed to do so. The president is right to say it’s time has run out.
- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Senate Speech
3/7/2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003

But make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found.
- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
4/10/2003

And, furthermore, your argument that the coalition casualty rate is remarkably low doesn't go anywhere when one considers the fact that no soldiers would have died had aWol&co not lied.

Poop Man Bob · October 26, 2003

BROWNo

Originally posted by BROWNer
sorry, this isn't really related, but

how do you guys feel about this?

I spent about a month this semester studying the NEPA process. Essentially, whenever there is "federal action," NEPA requires the agency to investigate and publish an environmental assessment (EA) determining whether the action would "significantly affect the human environment." If so, the agency has to investigate and publish an environmental impact statement (EIS) detailing the harm to the environment and other possible options, including doing nothing at all.

Note that the agency isn't forced to select another option - it must merely list them and consider them. In this respect, NEPA is soley a procedural statute - it provides no substantive rights.

But, as the article said, it's main benefit is derived from the transparency of the process. Interested parties and the public in general are able to act as watch dogs over the agencies to ensure that all possible options are considered when a federal action siginificantly affects the human environment.

And... I'm not surprised at all to read that Bush is trying to sidestep the statute's requirements.

KaBar2 · October 26, 2003

onesandzeros

Older gentleman? LOL. Well, older, yeah; probably not really gentleman material.

When I was younger I was a anarchist. I was absolutely convinced that we (the anti-war anarchists) were right, the Government was wrong, that our goals in Vietnam were thoroughly racist, and the Vietnamese people were just being murdered because we were uncaring and murderous and being imperialists. There was a very popular theory that the reason we were in Vietnam was to develop the "South China Sea oil fields." Whatever happened to that deal, do you suppose? Do you think that the Vietnamese government would let oil fields go unexploited for ten seconds after defeating South Vietnam? So far as I know, there is minimal, if any, oil exploration going on in the South China Sea, but it seems like we did have a thread on here a few months ago about Royal Dutch Shell or somebody drilling out there.

Our losses in Iraq are minimal. We have hundreds of thousands of troops there, and 108 or 109 or 250 or whatever the final number of combat deaths we sustain there is a small price to pay for the ouster of Saddam Hussein. Joining the armed forces is dangerous, you could get sent to war, you know? That's why we have an ALL VOLUNTEER, PROFESSIONAL ARMED FORCES. They get paid very well, compared to the pittance soldiers were paid in the early '60s. It's a dangerous job. You could get hurt. You could get killed. But when there is no war, you get a paycheck anyway. That's the deal. Train hard, battle easy.

I don't understand these people who join the Army or the Marines and then squall "I just joined for college money! Let me out! I don't want to go to war!" Jeeze, if you don't want to BE A SOLDIER then for pete sakes, don't join the Army. I served in the Marines. We all knew the deal. You enlisted voluntarially. If the shit hits the fan, your jarhead ass is going on that fucking helicopter with an M-16 in your hands, and no gettin' out of it. If you don't want to be a Marine, STAY OUT OF THE MARINE CORPS. How could anybody enlist in the Army and not understand that if a war comes along, your ass is going to GO? Fuck, that's what they PAY you for, man. Far and away, most professional soldiers understand this implicitly. They are well trained, well-armed, brave and combat ready. If the shit hits the fan, they are ready to rock. I served in the 2nd battalion of the 1st Marine Regiment (2/1). Our official sobriquet was "The Professionals." Among the men, it was "Two-One, second to none---good to go."

If you're a cop, you could get shot by some bank robber or crackhead or whatever. If you're a firefighter, you could get burned up in a fire. If you fly an air ambulance dust-off, you could die in a chopper crash lifting some car wreck victim out to a 1st Echelon medical-surgical center. Taxi drivers get killed. Train crewmen get killed in derails. OTR truck drivers get killed. Machinists get sucked into lathes, welders catch on fire. WTF, it's a dangerous world.

Our armed forces exist to defend the interests of the United States against all comers. In Marine Corps parlance, to "Seek out, close with and destroy by fire and close combat all enemy forces, to provide ground forces for service with the fleet and provide landing forces in the conduct of amphibious assault operations." Briefly, anybody whosoever who fucks with the United States will be smoked. It doesn't matter who, or where, or under what circumstances. When they send Marines to kill the enemy that is exactly what they go to do. Anybody who is not down for that should definately stay out of the Marine Corps, I guess. And the rest of the armed forces as well.

The problem is not the troops. The problem is that the civilians keep interfering with the conduct of combat operations for political reasons, and this sort of bullshit get American soldiers killed. By rights, when they send the Marines to do a job, they should leave them alone and let them DO it. It's not some free-for-all, the Marine Corps does EVERYTHING by the book, including waging war. It's more like a demolition project. You start out with an enemy force in front of you. You end up without a single enemy left undestroyed. Then you occupy the objective, build defenses to defend it, and wait for the Army to show up to take it over. Then you re-group, re-supply, re-inforce and go do it again. There are rules of war that absolutely must be followed, so there are relatively few murders on the battlefield by Marines (the Army has gone haywire a few times) but it is entirely possible to completely reduce a combat objective and still do it exactly by the book. Young infantrymen are much safer in the Marine Corps than they are in the Army. Marine Corps casualty rates are lower, because they are highly disciplined and highly controlled during combat. Very little sloppy, unprofessional behavior is tolerated. Left to their own devices, Marines do the job professionally, but that is not always politically correct. Not that the average jarhead gives a shit about that. I guess the Commandant and all the brass in the Puzzle Palace at Eighth and Eye do, but the troops don't.

Basically, I guess it doesn't matter to me why we went into Iraq. If Bush had simply said "Iraq is a dictatorship. We are going to go there are eliminate it," that would have been okay with me. If we made a major commitment of ground forces to Afghanistan and modernized that nation by force, I'd be okay with that, too. Pakistan is a slightly different matter, mainly because they have nuclear weapons, but if they decided to contravene the interests of the United States, they could go on the list as well.

We did not ask these people to fight. The Pakistanis have been fostering this bullshit for years, allowing Al Quaeda and other terrorist and extrremist groups to run back and forth across their borders, smuggling weapons and explosives and money and all kinds of shit. They have done nothing effective to stop it, because there is a significant portion of the Pakistani intelligence services and armed forces and government that agrees with Bin Laden. That's just fine by me. If they want to start shit with the U.S., they will regret it very much. I'll bet they already regret it very much, and we aren't even close to being finished in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The damage to the American people and to the United States has been minimal so far. Their worst nightmares will come true if they are brazen enough to really piss off the American people. The North Vietnamese and the Soviet Union certainly had the ability to attack the United States, but they refrained from doing so, because, when all was said and done, they were not ready to pay the eventual price for so doing.

The "War On Terrorism" has a very small footprint so far. But all it would really take would be another 9/11-type attack, and the real tiger will be set loose. They best watch their ass.

rip · October 26, 2003

Re: Re: Re: Re: American casualties in Iraq are very light, so it ain't that bad

Originally posted by BROWNer
big fucking deal is right, biatch, you can't even spell baghdad.

you remind me of tease, just a dumbass kid mouthing off

at things you barely grasp.

and what was it that you do again?

oh, you're an airforce brat that sits on a computer and spews windy bullshit on 12oz for your country.

i perfectly understand kabar's take on this, and i think its a ridiculous analogy/excuse.

furthermore, claiming that the media 'hates republicans' and president bush, either now or during the whole run up to this war, is fucking INCREDIBLE. it defies any resemblance of cognition. admittedly the press has been somewhat critical in the last couple of months, but it seems to me that you guys look at things in small increments..as isolated issues. sorry, but you've got a flat out zero argument thinking this way.

if you want to argue about WHY this war was good for america and the world,

come with some realness, some stark shit, not this bullshit the bush team feeds you for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

*i started this before everyone else jumped on your spelling and other

faults. so sorry.

first off i dont sit on the computer at work, unlike most of you i do work. right now im on the cert team, we try to gain access to military facilities through any means we see fit, i am also on augmente duty which means im a cop for acouple days. further more im on the deployment list to get deployed at the end of this year. and actually im not in full support of bush on this issue, i think we should have bombed the living shit out of the country. personally i could care less about anyone who lives there, if they want to have sadam huessain as there dictator then there just as guilty as him. so instead of a ground assault i would have bombed them and came in with a clean up sweep and it would have been over long ago.

KaBar2 · October 26, 2003

Told ya.

phism · October 26, 2003

Originally posted by rip
yeah if we didnt care then we wouldnt be sending billions of dollars to rebuild there country. go read before you make a comment about something you know nothing about.

ha.

do you know how much more money they're making off of it? search for the carlyle group. and they aren't sending their own money, they're sending american citizens' money. so they don't give a damn how much they spend. then, they profit personally from it. aside from that, the u.s. is trying to turn over as much of the reconstruction as possible over to the u.n. so we don't have to deal with it, since our business contracts/claims (halliburton) are already in place.

their*

you can't tell someone else to read if all you've been reading is ann coulter and bill o'reilly.

phism · October 26, 2003

Originally posted by veloLusto
.......i feel like moving to another country everyday of my life......

i'm high-tailin' it to the pacific islands or new zealand as soon as i muster up the scrilla..

fuck this place, i can't stand to walk down the street without getting pissed off at everything american.

rip · October 26, 2003

Originally posted by phism
ha.

do you know how much more money they're making off of it? search for the carlyle group. and they aren't sending their own money, they're sending american citizens' money. so they don't give a damn how much they spend. then, they profit personally from it. aside from that, the u.s. is trying to turn over as much of the reconstruction as possible over to the u.n. so we don't have to deal with it, since our business contracts/claims (halliburton) are already in place.

their*

you can't tell someone else to read if all you've been reading is ann coulter and bill o'reilly.

actually if you watch the news we are getting loans grants and donations from other countries around the world to help rebuild iraq.so yeah you might want to stay ontop of your current events there buddy.

rip · October 26, 2003

and just to add on something that kabar said about using marines and army. if we didnt want to bomb the living shit out of iraq we coulda just told the media to fuck off their not ridding on our tanks, and let the army and marines goto work. woulda been over real quick.

onesandzeros · October 26, 2003

Hrm. I don't really think you addressed any of my questions my man, but thats ok I guess. The fact that you bring up Pakistan of all places kindof answers it, since it ties in to the whole PNAC aim to get a real foothold in that whole region of the world. there really are a whole lot more examples of fucked up human rights abusers / dictators, some of whom we're kindof supporting, I dunno really how Pakistan is such a target. just my view anyway. The sad part is, fucking around with Pakistan really is just another step in the wrong direction of infuriating the rest of the world, which in actuality makes us less safer.

For the whole "Why do kids bug out when they realize they have to work for their $$$$ in the military issue", its really not a mystery to me. Have you really seen the majority of the people the armed forces seem to recruit lately? Its really just a lot of no-future types, and it makes sense to them that it would be the only good way to get ahead with college and money and what not. Its not really advertised as what it is anymore if you think about it, Its all commercials with godsmack as the background music(Do they recruit at Ozfest now? that would actually be the perfect place as far as I would think...), and its all really sanitized and the actual realities of war arent portrayed to the youth. Think about it, I know theres violent video games and all sorts of whacked out jerry bruckhiemer explosions every other second movies out there now, but I really think that the actual realities of combat are very far removed from these types of entertainment. Back in the WW's era, people in the US had at least an inkling of the type of shit that happens in wars. In the cold war era, people at least had an idea of the type of shit "weapons of mass destruction" unleashed. But now? I think when it all sets in, thats some heavy shit to realize, and people who went in for the college $$$$ figure out too late it ain't worth it. I know you're older, so I'm going to assume that you grew up and were socialized to the realities of war differently than todays kids are.

I mean, look at this kid rip. He's talking about bombing an entire population out over the actions of one fuckhead who we used to support when it was financially ok. Honestly, people are getting angry at this kid, I'm not. I really feel sorry that hes that mindfucked. He thinks people wanted a dictator. Isnt that a contridiction? Lots of people suffered, and he thinks we shouldve bombed them? Huhwha? Now picture that same mentality turned around on say, someone from any other part of the world. "They supported Bush, they wanted bush, we should attack them all for his actions". Doesn't really sit easy then I guess. What do I know I suppose. I'm real tired and I'm not proofreading this, So I'll cringe at it tomorrow morning. G'night.

rip · October 26, 2003

Originally posted by onesandzeros
Hrm. I don't really think you addressed any of my questions my man, but thats ok I guess. The fact that you bring up Pakistan of all places kindof answers it, since it ties in to the whole PNAC aim to get a real foothold in that whole region of the world. there really are a whole lot more examples of fucked up human rights abusers / dictators, some of whom we're kindof supporting, I dunno really how Pakistan is such a target. just my view anyway. The sad part is, fucking around with Pakistan really is just another step in the wrong direction of infuriating the rest of the world, which in actuality makes us less safer.

For the whole "Why do kids bug out when they realize they have to work for their $$$$ in the military issue", its really not a mystery to me. Have you really seen the majority of the people the armed forces seem to recruit lately? Its really just a lot of no-future types, and it makes sense to them that it would be the only good way to get ahead with college and money and what not. Its not really advertised as what it is anymore if you think about it, Its all commercials with godsmack as the background music(Do they recruit at Ozfest now? that would actually be the perfect place as far as I would think...), and its all really sanitized and the actual realities of war arent portrayed to the youth. Think about it, I know theres violent video games and all sorts of whacked out jerry bruckhiemer explosions every other second movies out there now, but I really think that the actual realities of combat are very far removed from these types of entertainment. Back in the WW's era, people in the US had at least an inkling of the type of shit that happens in wars. In the cold war era, people at least had an idea of the type of shit "weapons of mass destruction" unleashed. But now? I think when it all sets in, thats some heavy shit to realize, and people who went in for the college $$$$ figure out too late it ain't worth it. I know you're older, so I'm going to assume that you grew up and were socialized to the realities of war differently than todays kids are.

I mean, look at this kid rip. He's talking about bombing an entire population out over the actions of one fuckhead who we used to support when it was financially ok. Honestly, people are getting angry at this kid, I'm not. I really feel sorry that hes that mindfucked. He thinks people wanted a dictator. Isnt that a contridiction? Lots of people suffered, and he thinks we shouldve bombed them? Huhwha? Now picture that same mentality turned around on say, someone from any other part of the world. "They supported Bush, they wanted bush, we should attack them all for his actions". Doesn't really sit easy then I guess. What do I know I suppose. I'm real tired and I'm not proofreading this, So I'll cringe at it tomorrow morning. G'night.

like i said thats my personal view and i could care less if people like me. and i wish people would try and attack our country, they woulda make it on the west coast east coast ot the gulf. look in texas we have the militia that would rip them apart. the west coast, good luck trying to get through any of the major cities, in between la and san diego we have marines all over. on the east coast theres no way we would know they were comming for ever. so it is not feesible for anyone to try and attack us.

onesandzeros · October 26, 2003

Originally posted by rip
like i said thats my personal view and i could care less if people like me. and i wish people would try and attack our country, they woulda make it on the west coast east coast ot the gulf. look in texas we have the militia that would rip them apart. the west coast, good luck trying to get through any of the major cities, in between la and san diego we have marines all over. on the east coast theres no way we would know they were comming for ever. so it is not feesible for anyone to try and attack us.

But arent we fighting terrorists bro? You think someone is going to send their army at the united states? Our military budget(even though most of it I believe just goes to contracts to big budget types) is like, what, the size of the next five largest combined? This type of warfare happens when someone has the obvious advantage. If someone has their boot on your face, you stab them in the leg. Militias are only waiting for the day the govt is coming to take their guns away. I guess in theory you're right about east coast knowing someone is coming forever, cause apparently people knew about 9/11 before it happened? Seriously, what are you talking about my man?

Coffie Crave · October 26, 2003

i just read that we are paying 13 billon to rebuild, what we blown up..i mean it makes sence and all but i think with more planing we chould of done a better job.

but intell bush gets out of office,were going to have to keep on truckn

KaBar2 · October 26, 2003

onesandzeros

Maybe you are correct, but I'm just not all that concerned about whether or not the rest of the world is pissed off. Our problem is not that they are pissed off, but that the U.S. lets anybody and everybody wander in and out of our country as they damned well please. I think that we should be actively engaged in developing about 1000% more intelligence assets around the world than we have right now. If we need to be concerned about world terrorist organizations, then the CIA and other intelligence organizations ought to be running organizations that will attract people who hate the U.S., just so we can keep track of them. (They've done this for years with domestic organizations like the National Alliance, the Ku Klux Klan, the CPUSA, Nation of Islam, etc.) The Communists used to joke that back during the Great Depression, if it hadn't been for the FBI informants being able to pay heir dues, the Party wouldn't have been able to pay the rent.

Most Americans will never have occasion to go to the Middle East at all. We do business there. Pretty much, that's it. I don't see that we've done anything to piss off the rest of the world, other than help Israel keep from being overrun, and I think we got fucked over there quite a bit. If they would leave the Israelis alone, they wouldn't have a problem. The Palestinians are their own worst enemy. They could have had a state ten times over, but their premise that they are going to end Israel is just ridiculously stupid. The Arab states over the years often aligned with the communists. They picked their side. How is that our fault? We didn't ask them to become Soviet clients, they did that shit on their own hook.

And the Israelis could solve a lot of their own problems if they would stop insisting that Palestinian people living in Israel aren't Israelis. Fuck, if they aren't Israelis, kick 'em out of the country and be done with it. The truth is, the Palestinians are CHEAP LABOR. The Israelis NEED them.

It seems like to me that just about every nation except the wealthiest nations in Western Europe has it's hand out ALL THE TIME. "Uncle Sugar" is supposed to solve every fucking body's problems. They get into a bunch of trouble with the World Bank, "boom," somehow that's our fault. Bullshit. We didn't ask them to borrow all that money, they did that shit on their OWN. People have absolutely no responsibility for themselves. It's like a bunch of spoiled children demanding shit from a harrassed mother.

The U.S. needs to stop being the spoiled rich kid who boxes Golden Gloves. The rest of the world needs to stop being the envious little urchin from the wrong side of the tracks who smiles to your face, and then plots on stabbing you in the back with a pocket knife. They're pissed off? Like I give a shit. They made their choices, we don't owe them shit. But if I was them, I wouldn't loan us another penny.

The Crash is coming, kids. GET READY. Batten down the hatches. Stockpile food. Pay off ALL debts. Don't borrow any money. Be prepared to tough it out. Go buy a good rifle and a case of rounds. LOL. And a CB, don't forget a good CB.

Gunm · October 26, 2003

^^^

When i conquer the world, I want you to write my speeches KaBar. You're a little late on the whole "don't borrow any money" bit. I just had to take out another $6000 loan so i can finish college. Shit.

Of course we're not going to show coffins coming back. Support for this war dwindles by the day.

KaBar2 · October 26, 2003

It's three o'clock in the morning

Well, actually, it's FOUR o'clock, but you know--"Spring forward, Fall back," etc. Fuck, I'm tired. Why am I still awake?

(Yawn.) Yeah, I'm up to my ass in debt, too. Fuck it, nothing I can do about it. I've whittled it down a shitload over the last five or six years, but shit just keeps happening, cars break down, insurance must be paid, unanticipated bullshit problems.

My wife and I have been down this road before. We know how to survive hard times, seriously. Up north, at one point, we were raising rabbits for meat, in cages behind the garage, and that's true.

My father-in-law once told me that he didn't need a lot of ammunition because he could only shoot one deer a year. Showed me his box of .30-30 cartridges. It was a 20-round box. Had four or five still in it. He said, "See this box of .30-30's? I bought 'em when Jack was in high school." Probably an exaggeration, but I believed him. One round = one dead deer = 50-60 pounds of venison. Hell, yeah.

PedroHammers · October 26, 2003

Originally posted by rip
like i said thats my personal view and i could care less if people like me. and i wish people would try and attack our country, they woulda make it on the west coast east coast ot the gulf. look in texas we have the militia that would rip them apart. the west coast, good luck trying to get through any of the major cities, in between la and san diego we have marines all over. on the east coast theres no way we would know they were comming for ever. so it is not feesible for anyone to try and attack us.

If I am correct in this, I seem to remember a day two years ago, what was the date? Oh, September 11, 2001... New York and DC. Remember that? Seemed pretty feasible then to attack didnt it? And when was that ten years ago right? Another successful attack on America in New York as well. Seriously kid, you really need to re-read and THINK about what you are putting into public forum. Your "blind rage typing binges" expose your ignorance in a gross manner.

The attacks are here, they have been. They will not be in the manner that you or I are familiar with. (Are you not taught that in your branch of the services?)... I have watched so much of the "Left wing" Media to understand that.

and Rip. I really hope that one day you do start thinking for yourself rather than the spoon fed BS they give you in the Services.

....

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Pentagon Blocks Coverage of Returning Coffins

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