Isreal Goes on The Attack!

[Smart]

whee... fun.

[seeking]

bush should just send me and smart over there to 'mediate'. we'll wind up just insulting eachother all day long, annoy the fuck out of both israel and palestine, then they'll unite just to shut us the fuck up, and the problem is solved.

 

 

 

seeks/another one bites the dust

[!@#$%]

i'ma try to get this back on track..

 

because hey, this is really some pointless shit now.

let's get back to some international issues that have some relevance and are, in reality, humanitarian crisis that desperately need all the intelligent attention they can get.

 

..one step closer to all out war ...

 

Israel, Lebanon in border clash

 

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 Posted: 4:42 AM EDT (0842 GMT)

 

(CNN) -- Israel and Lebanon exchanged gunfire in a disputed border area, according to Lebanese officials, a day after Israeli planes attacked a suspected Palestinian militant base in Syria.

 

The Lebanese Joint Security Force said in a statement Monday that gunmen engaged Israeli forces in a gun battle and that explosions were heard in the disputed area known as the Shebaa Farms.

 

The Israel Defense Forces said an Israeli patrol in the area returned fire after being shot at by snipers on the Lebanese side who were wearing the uniforms and masks of the militant group Hezbollah.

 

IDF said one Israeli soldier was killed in the exchange.

 

The Shebaa Farms area, a mountainous region at the foot of the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, has been subject to sporadic attacks by Hezbollah guerrillas in the three-and-a-half years since Israel withdrew its forces from South Lebanon.

 

The increased tension in the volatile border zone followed Sunday's attack by the Israeli Air Force on the suspected Palestinian training camp in Syria.

 

Israel issued a warning to both Syria and Lebanon late Monday, urging them to stop their alleged support of militant groups.

 

At the same time, Israel said it had not ruled out another attack in Syria.

 

"There could be more, there could be not," Israeli government spokesman Ranaan Gissin said in a telephone interview.

 

Israel defense officials said the camp targeted in the Syria strike was used to train members of Islamic Jihad -- a militant group that has claimed responsibility for terror attacks against Israelis in the past, including the suicide bombing Saturday in Haifa.

 

But the Syrian Foreign Ministry insisted the Israeli target, near Damascus, was a civilian site, without elaborating. A spokesman for the Islamic Jihad denied Sunday there were any Islamic Jihad training bases in Syria.

 

Meanwhile, U.S. President George W. Bush said Monday he had made clear to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that "Israel's got a right to defend herself, that Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defense of the homeland."

 

But he added that he had told Sharon "it is very important that any action Israel take should avoid escalation, creating higher tensions."

 

On Sunday, Syria proposed a draft resolution at the U.N. Security Council condemning the Israeli strike and calling on Israel to avoid any actions that would worsen the Middle East crisis any further. (Full story)

 

No vote is yet scheduled on Syria's resolution, and it is doubtful whether the United States -- which holds the Security Council's rotating presidency this month -- will support it.

 

On Monday, the Syrian ambassador to the United Nations, Fayssal Mekdad, told CNN his nation has worked with the United States to fight terrorism, and deserved support.

 

Amr Moussa, Arab League secretary-general, agreed. "This is a situation that doesn't conform to the international law. The right of self-defense applies when a state is attacked," Moussa said.

 

"When a country occupies the land of other countries and practices violence ... it's not

[GLIK$]

Ill ban you both, I swear to god.

[Guest]

whoa!

 

when good mods go bad!

 

Remind me not to make such inflamitory threads.

This one turned into a full on shit flinging battle royale.

 

getting back on topic.....

 

Meanwhile, U.S. President George W. Bush said Monday he had made clear to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that "Israel's got a right to defend herself, that Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defense of the homeland."

 

How's that for double Speak. I wonder if by 'constrained' Bush really

was refering to the boarders of Israel and he's giving carte blanche

for maor attacks against whomever Israel decides is helping Hamas.

That almost exactly like Bush's blanket excuse for the 'pre-emptive'

strikes on Iraq.

 

I still say just turn New Jersey into the 'New Jerusalem'.

[!@#$%]

bush is saying that they have a right to go beyond their borders (which are heavily contested already..) and engage.

 

bullshit.

 

they have moved into syria and now lebanon.

in the name of peace.

 

and i guess i shouldn't even bring up the golan heights.

[seeking]

dude, this whole 'pre-emptively attacking your enemies turf' has been working succesfully for the bloods and crips for 20 years now, why should we think it will be any less 'productive' in the middle east?

 

 

if israel turned out to be built ontop of a really big version of one of those 'sand pit' things from 'return of the jedi' that eats people, i wouldnt be too bummed.

 

 

seeks/but of course thats only cause i hate jews.

[Guest]

^ yes I follow that point quite clearly.

 

It's almost like they took a page out of Bush's playbook.

 

I still dont understand how 'defending' a country involves

moving into another country with force. Well maybe I can

see it a bit if there's a military force building on your borders,

like Isreal, but there's no excuse when they're on the other

side of the plantet, like Iraq. Israel is afraid of attacks happening

again like they did in the 60's and 70's so I do understand the

need for real 'defence'. What they are doing is not really a defensive

move because they are just increasing the tension and pissing off

their enemies. You know without the US backing they'd be keeping

to themselves and playing nicely in the sand.

[GLIK$]

I hate Jawas too man.

 

Fucking sand dwellers.

 

GWB needs to hop on his land speeder and hon solo some fucking ass over there.

 

bling bling, one love.

 

fuck being serious.

 

if you dont live there dont care.

 

youll die younger

 

enter

enter

enter.

[!@#$%]

Pandora's Box

 

this is what got intelligent people scared about the gulf war.

 

i knew saddam was a piece of shit, but i knew it would pave the way for basically any country to strike "pre-emptively" without international support or even approval..

 

now it'll be interesting to see how much trouble we get in as a result of the rest of the new bush doctrine..

 

like how we hold afghani men without trials indefinitely (i saw it repoted on dateline that some of those men may NEVER be released OR get a TRIAL)

 

so how will that effect us when we are trying to get POWs back on the basis of the geneva convention.

 

if terrorists take our men they don't have to recognize the geneva treaty...after all, they are not representing a 'state' as we have defined them "enemy combatants" and entirely new designation not covered under the g.c.

 

bullshit!!

 

we are reaping what we sow.

 

 

and as far as the pit of Sarnac, it might help some shit out in a big way. (throws up hands, shrugs)

[Guest]

Well seing how Bush has declared a 'war' on terror,

you'd figure that he should have to play by the rules of war.

The other side might not choose to play by them same rule,

and then we are fucked.

 

Also they seems to be a major reluctancy to seperate

'terrorists' from 'guerilla forces'. These two things are

fundamentally different. Just like the Boer war where the

traditional army formations were slaughtered by desperate

but proud men hiding in the bushes, the West will learn a hard lesson here.

[seeking]

Originally posted by Kilo7-

You know without the US backing they'd be keeping

to themselves and playing nicely in the sand.

 

without the US (and british) backing, they never would have taken that land in the first place. and they sure as shit wouldnt be pulling any of the shit they are now.

 

!@#$,

perhaps you know this... are there any arabic countries still fighting amongst eachother, or are our actions pretty much just uniting them against us?

 

seeks/punching people is soooo last year

[!@#$%]

ultimately it's not countries.

 

it is tribal infighting, based largely on ethnic and also religious differences.

 

for example, currently in iraq there is a power struggle being played out between sunnis and shiites, arabs and kurds....

 

it's extremly complicated.

it harkens back to the Ottoman and Persian empires, and the devastation unleashed in the region when they were destroyed...individual countries cropped up, spurred by a nationalistic identity that the western world attempted to impose.

 

these are still nomadic, tribal peoples.

it is tempting to say that of we got the fuck out, shit would chill, but unfortunately we opened a torrent of unrest when we deposed a brutal dictator (an individual able to control dissent by fear)...now we want to establish a democracy in a country that seems to want a religious gov't

 

..

 

some more..

 

Where could the violence come from? Not from an imagined "vertical" civil war pitting Shi'ites against Sunnis, or Arabs versus Kurds, but from the source of evil that has been contaminating and corrupting Iraqi society over the past decades; i.e., the highly politicised and violent social atmosphere created by the Ba'athist regime. A protest movement against the war carnage and the humiliation of the army can immediately turn into targeting the most visible symbols of authority: known collaborators with the Ba'athists, members of the countless oppression and control organs, or simply people belonging to Tikrit. In the latter case, revenge need not necessarily take a sectarian colouring. Sunni regions that have been relegated to a secondary position under the Ba'ath, such as Samarra and Dulaim, may well show signs of hatred that surpass those of Shi'as.

 

from..

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/623/sc3.htm

 

or...

 

Analysis of establishing democracy..

 

U.S. President George W. Bush's promise to create a model democracy in Iraq after he's thrown out Saddam Hussein and his regime is no doubt well intentioned, but ignores the lessons of history. Democracy doesn't come in a box with a set of easy-to-follow instructions and an American army of occupation to make it happen in a couple of years. It grows slowly, hesitantly, and often with bloody setbacks along the way.

 

Mr. Bush's supporters point to Germany and Japan after the Second World War as examples of how democracy can be created in a defeated country. But Germany had a history of democracy before Hitler took power in 1933; his dictatorship was the exception not the rule, and the task after the war was not to create democracy but to restore it.

 

Japan was a tight, homogenous society with a developed economy famous for its skill in copying western industrial products. When the United States agreed to allow the god-like emperor to remain on his throne, the people followed orders, proving apt pupils of their American teachers.

 

But how well they really learned their lessons is not entirely clear. True, they have elections, but the same party always wins, and the real source of power appears to be in giant industrial enterprises that dominate the economy.

 

Looking beyond the special cases of Germany and Japan, the U.S. has usually failed to implant democracy in other countries in which, with allies or by itself, it has overthrown the regime. Of the 18 cases in the last century, only five became democracies, according to The Christian Science Monitor. And when the U.S. was acting alone, only Panama progressed from, in effect, a U.S. protectorate to self-governing democracy.

 

from

http://www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/canada/corresp...tell030314.html

[210006]

Originally posted by Tesseract

I dont buy the "Israel did not give Washington any advance warning of the attack." if it werent for the states the arab world would have eaten the jews alive a long long time ago. Israelis dont move with no US backup. aka "Washington said it would not support a Syrian resolution condemning the raid because it made no mention of a Palestinian suicide bomber attack on Saturday, in which 19 people were killed in an Israeli restaurant."

i have'nt read the whole thread, but i remember something about a nsa spy ship getting knocked out by the israeli airforce just before the 7 day war... brings memories?

[!@#$%]

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/Iraq-Quagmire/IraqQuagmire/kal.gif'>

 

 

relevance....

[fermentor666]

Stop the violence.

 

Yassar Arafat is a piece of shit. No one loves the Palestinians except for the Americans.

 

Bend it Like Beckham you assholes.

[serum]

^ oh yeah, fuck you! beckhams a homo

[KaBar2]

Arguing about the Middle East is a waste of time

 

Both sides suck. Israel does whatever it pleases, regardless of what we ask them to do. They are more than willing to kill Americans if it suits their purpose. The Palestinians are almost entirely motivated by racial and religious hatred. The shit they put on their TV's and teach their kids in school would make the Devil blush.

 

I think we need to stop trying to get them to play nice, and just do whatever SUITS US. Fuck 'em both.

 

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

 

http://www.mideastfacts.com/1967-liberty.html

[SWIMS]

Crazy days. The occupation is reaching 50 years pretty soon. Anybody's that interested should check out the new Geneva accords released this week. Hopefully they will have some effect. Sharon and his Lekut boys have disregarded it and are pressing full on with their wall. Funny, it will give the Israeli's the ability to stop most of the water flowing into the west bank next time they roll in for another good old clean sweep because they are looking for "terrorists". Just a little synicle I know but this conflict has two sides both drowning in the blood they have spilled. These attacks in syria were purely symbolic.

It does seem that international atention is is finnaly curbing to an un-bias (non-zionist) view. The 2nd Intifada was able to change the world view of the palestinian as a victim instead of a terrorist but the media has seemed to not be interested in this and many things point to an actual regression in political progress.

[old*824]

i really want to paint that wall the taxpayers in the united states are paying for.

 

g e n o c i d e spells genocide.

[Dick Quickwood]

:horse fart:

[wiseguy]

Re: Arguing about the Middle East is a waste of time

 

Originally posted by KaBar2

The Palestinians are almost entirely motivated by racial and religious hatred. The shit they put on their TV's and teach their kids in school would make the Devil blush.

well, i guess that i cant argue that, but what about the US or Israel? they have made it clear that they hate arabs when they bomb the fucking shit out syria, palestine, afghanistan and iraq (not to mention the fact that they are now fucking with iran and lebanon).

also, how does america portray arabs in films? how do they portray the Israel Palestine conflict in the news? its no better than the palestinian news, it just reinforces the same bullshit mindset that most people are stuck in.

 

 

 

 

freepalestineoner.

[Kyuzo]

middle east aka http://www.12ozprophet.com/ubb/icons/icon30.gif'>

[seeking]

Re: Re: Arguing about the Middle East is a waste of time

 

my thing, which is completely based on opinion and my recognition of the facts, is that if given their livelyhood back, and left alone to live their lives, i dont beleive palestinians would continue blowing up 'innocent jews'. however, israel, who is in control, has their livelyhood and control of their lives, continues to kill and displace 'terrorist palestinians'.

 

answer seems pretty simple to me in this one.

 

seeks/why does pro peace have to be anti-semetic?

[Guest]

Originally posted by seeking

seeks/why does pro peace have to be anti-semetic?

 

 

uhhhh.... which group of semites would peace be against?

 

I'm sure you know it, but both Judaism and Islam are 'Semetic'.

 

And like we've all said many times...

 

Being against Isreali politics doesnt have to be against Isreali people.

[RubbeRBand]

Alright, first off, Semites were a race of mostly nomadic people in the Fertile Crescent/ Middle East, they supposedly merged with Babylon and might've migrated to the Egyptian Nile too. Then of course there are the Judaic Semites, Hebresews. Prob. is, they all live in the desert, us Westerners look on over our fatty fat lawns and say, "oh, we'll put a border here and a border there, here a border there a border la la la laaah," we did this after WWI and again after WWII with no regard to the fact that many of the inhabitants are nomadic by nature. Typical bullying bullshit on our part, we right, you wrong... but then again you look at the countries where this long lasting type of shit boils up, Pakistan vs. India vs. Bengali, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc. (donut forget Palestine) vs. Israel. Do you sense a theme here, with the exception of india, they all use the arabic number system... Blast, I thought I dun got it...

[!@#$%]

the u.s. backed away from a lot of the border debates and land reorganization that took place following the end of wwi

 

the decisions were made primarily by britain and india..

 

there were quite a few people opposed to the diviing that was going on then as well..

 

woodrow wilson's 14 points were in favor of self determination, and though those views were not favored by the majority at the time, it was not quite the imperialistic path we are on today.

[heavyLox]

its been a long day and i cant spell well to begin with, so keep your comments to you

 

Mistakes were made...

 

I can not beleive arafat has the best interest of his people in mind.

 

Leaders have SO much to do with shaping the views of their people.

Most leaders have hidden agendas. THis guy is fueling the fire for his people. A struggle that makes them suffer daily. At this point they need to realize Isreal is NOT backing down.

 

I feel secure in saying if Arafat were to say to the people this has gone on long enough, for the sake of all of us we will make X,Y,Z conssesions, his people would go for it.

 

the majority just want work and securioy, as we all do.

 

 

Flip It/

 

Isreal needs to realize that the fatah, hezbola, plo(?), and all of the associated groups will continue to find people willing to die just to proove a point. Isreal is the Middle easts North Korea, they make unilateral moves with little concern for outside approval.

What other country PUBLICaly threatens to asassinate another countrys leader ( besides the US).

 

If i had super powers id clear all this crap up in a jiff

: flex muscles:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Africa is another country with fairly random borders.