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mental invalid

Israel Grounds Pilots Who Refused Mission

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Israel Grounds Pilots Who Refused Mission

 

 

 

By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer

 

JERUSALEM - Israel on Thursday temporarily grounded reserve air force pilots who — in an unprecedented protest — condemned airstrikes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as "immoral" and refused to fly such sorties.

 

 

The declaration by 27 pilots, including nine on active duty, was widely criticized in Israel as subversive at a time of war, but it also revived a flagging debate on the ethics of Israel's three-year war on Palestinian militants.

 

 

The protest struck a nerve because many Israelis believe their military has higher moral standards than that of their neighbors, and that other countries would have been much more ruthless.

 

 

The military is also seen as an institution that binds the fractious nation; Israelis get jittery at signs of cracks in the ranks. The air force in particular is considered key to Israel's survival, and pilots are held in the highest regard. Critics also say such talk gives ammunition to Israel's enemies.

 

 

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said the rebel pilots would be dealt with swiftly.

 

 

"Everyone can express his opinion, but it is unacceptable that a group of people in the military would interfere in a subject that does not apply to them," he told Israel TV.

 

 

The air force quickly tried to contain the damage. Commander Maj. Gen. Dan Halutz said the nine active pilots, grounded for now, could face suspension and perhaps military jail if they don't retract.

 

 

He said the rebels are a tiny minority among thousands of pilots. Hundreds of pilots began circulating declarations Thursday that expressed support for their commanders.

 

 

The protesters came under fire for mixing their moral dilemma with political opinion — their declaration said the continued occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip corrupts society.

 

 

Even moderate Israelis said this is a mistake, because it could set a precedent. "When the time comes, say, to remove settlers from their homes, other people in the army or in the air force will say they don't want to obey these orders in the same way," said Col. Uri Dromi, an air force reservist.

 

 

Veteran journalist Dan Margalit wrote in a front-page commentary in the Maariv daily that the pilots abused their exalted standing.

 

 

"If their idea is accepted, Ahmed Yassin and his compatriots in the Hamas leadership will be able to plan the next murder of Jewish children on a Jerusalem bus without interference," Margalit wrote, referring to an August bus bombing that killed 23 people, six of them children.

 

 

Only veteran leaders of Israel's dovish left, including Yossi Sarid and Shulamit Aloni of the Meretz party, defended the pilots.

 

 

Several hundred Israelis have refused to serve in the West Bank and Gaza. There have been protests such as last weekend's Tel Aviv rally in which several thousand called for ending the occupation. But no major anti-war movement has emerged during the current fighting with the Palestinians, and most Israelis support the military's actions.

 

 

The group of 27 is informally led by Brig. Gen. Yiftah Spector, a highly decorated retired pilot who, according to Israeli media, took part in the bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.

 

 

In their petition, the pilots said airstrikes on crowded Palestinian areas are "illegal and immoral."

 

 

In three years of fighting, Israeli pilots have carried out hundreds of airstrikes, targeting Palestinian police installations and weapons workshops of militants. The most controversial involve targeted killings in which helicopters — and sometimes warplanes — fire rockets and bombs at cars and homes of Palestinian militants.

 

 

 

Some 140 wanted Palestinians have died in targeted raids, according to Palestinian medical officials, though the figure also includes those killed resisting arrest. More than 100 bystanders have also died, they said.

 

The Israeli public, traumatized by a Palestinian suicide bombing campaign that has killed hundreds since September 2000, largely supports the targeted killings.

 

A watershed for some pilots was last year's attack on Salah Shehadeh, leader of the Hamas military wing. A one-ton bomb killed Shehadeh, an assistant and 14 civilians, nine of them children. Halutz, the air force commander, had said he felt the bombing was morally correct.

 

In response to last month's Jerusalem bombing, Israel accelerated targeted attacks, killing 13 Hamas members and six bystanders in nearly a dozen airstrikes in Gaza City.

 

One of the 27 pilots, identified only as Capt. Alon, told the Yediot Ahronot daily he was now ashamed to be a member of the air force. "It's an organization that has no qualms about dropping bombs ... on the densest neighborhoods in the world ...," he was quoted as saying.

 

Brig. Gen. Eliezer Shakedi, a senior air force official, said great efforts are made to keep Palestinian civilians from harm, and that some missions were aborted if the risk to innocents was too high.

 

It was the first time pilots have come out openly against air force policy. In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, some expressed reservations about bombing cities and refugee camps but did not go public.

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you know what allways kills me....

 

no... not missles.

 

the fact that the story of David and Goliath is part of

Hebrew learning but Isreal cant seem to actually understand it.

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the thing that really kills me ( even more than the missles!)

is the living conditions in Palestine. A friend was there and he

saw they way some people live. There's mud brick housing with

open sewers (ditches) running in front of every house.

 

Now this isn't like Lybia or Somalia where people grew up in these

conditions and dont know any better. These are men who had normal

houses and some level of comfort before the occupation. Take away

everything that a man has and he will act like an animal.

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i hear you man.....its fucking wrong, and now they wanna build a wall for security purposes....this will only cause more violence....

 

 

in the same way, what do you do if your israel? arafat is a joke...

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Guest im not witty

Those pilots have balls. im glad though, im sick of hearing my jewish roomate spout bullshit he learned as a child about palestinians, and refusing to see the issue from the other side. I always love to see jews protest against israel.

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Well, it IS just chaos.

Each side get fucked up.

But just to add - the Palastinians terror leaders get civilians around them to make it "morally incorrect"...

Its not that people just stand there.

 

 

Though both sides are fucked up:(

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Guest im not witty

"ill fight a tank with a shank, and thats my fucking word"

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If there is one thing that really bothers me about most Israelis that they are so full of shit.

The jewish ppl were supposed to be on of the nations who got the most racism in the past and still many of them talk about how Nazi's were stupid and sick and then act kinda similar towards the Arabs.

Im not saying Israel is like the Nazi's at all.

But a lot of youth are talking like that and also older ppl.

Really drives me nuts and some of it is because of our "fabulous" rappers.

 

Anywho, near my town we have this most Arabic village which really shows how muslims, jews and christians can live together in peace.

Its really nice and you can really see how each culture affects the other.

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so whats the general consensus over there TB??

 

 

i mean all i get is our ass backward media spin on it....

 

 

what is the general feeling over there???

 

fabulous rappers???

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lol.

They are like fachist media toys rappers.

Anywho, most Israelis are all about Self Pride.

They want to see only half of the picture.

But actually its the otherway around in Europe and sometimes in the states.

I think its also because our speakers for the media around the world are the worst.

The Palestinians have people who graduated Oxford Uni. with good english and whom are qualified to talk in the media.

Most of our speakers, in my opinion, are either army ppl or stupid politicians. In most cases they all have terrible english (including grammer,accent and vocabulary).

 

Anywho, our economic situation is REALLY BAD so a lot of ppl are also concerned about that...

 

What are the opinions about this in the states or wherever you are from:cool:

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id say its sorta mixed....

 

 

must conservatives and christian right could care less and are all about israel....as are most of the politicians.....the jewish vote being a major factor...media seems to take a israel stance....a few organizations were trying to change the lexicon to homicide bombers...

 

but given the current climate in the states in regards to islam and arabs, more probably lean towards israel....

 

i think alot of people shy away from taking a hard stance due to fear of being labeled anti-semetic....

 

some of the liberal intelligencia are very anti israel

 

 

in general i think most of us just look at it as brawling siblings who need to get along.....

 

 

 

the jews arent going nowhere, and the arabs arent either....

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Yeah thats true.

 

The situation is REALLY fucked up.

And there is a LOT of brainwashing going on.

And in Europe is well.

Most of the Euro media is really Anti Israel...

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Originally posted by mental invalid

...media seems to take a israel stance....

 

where's the 'understatements' thread?

 

The average news outlet is scared shitless of being labeled

anti-semetic when there's a huge difference between that

and being anti-Isreali Policy. HUGE difference. (I dont want to end up in the understatment thread)

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Guest im not witty

^egggggggsactly. and no one seems to understand this at all. especially my jewish roomate. surprise surprise.

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"Everyone can express his opinion, but it is unacceptable that a group of people in the military would interfere in a subject that does not apply to them," he told Israel TV.

 

 

um right, i mean seriously mr. sharon, they only have to drop the bombs on people....they should be detached from such an act as much as you are...after all the subject of innocent people being killed by their bombs is none of their business.....

 

 

(vile sarcasm)

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Originally posted by im not witty

^egggggggsactly. and no one seems to understand this at all. especially my jewish roomate. surprise surprise.

 

Well, you have to understand that most of the jewish people parents

lived with a feeling (which was true at that time and sometime at this time) that most of the people are against them.

The parents told the kids the same, hopefully to keep them strong and all and to be united, so its really hard to argue with jews:lol:

 

'Cause you have to try and understand how it was living in Europe in the beginning of the 20th century.

Imagine all of the people around you would say that you are not even a human being and all.

So those ppl teached their kids that its not true and what most ppl say about them isn't true and it passes away for one genaration to the next...

 

Hope I cleard that out,

and sorry for my english:o

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If they wanted to take a stand in the first place they shoulda left when it was time for the mandatory service.

 

Once your in the service you disobey orders and get sent to the brig for a court martial. Simple as that. Someone else drops bombs.

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The wars of the future will be fought by giant robots.

It will be your duty to build and maintain those robots.

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in the past few years the israel/palestine situation has gotten my rapt attention..

 

i've tried to learn as much about it as possible, although i know i've only scratched the surface.

 

i have come around to the view that american support of the isreali occupation of palestine is a terrible position..i agree less and less with the isreali position all the time (helped even less by ariel sharon)..it disgusts me that so many billions of dollars in military aid is poured into that country

 

the use of that aid money must therefore be sanctioned by our governement.

so what about the innocent palestinian lives??

 

it's interesting that the air force can see thesae points..i'm glad those pilots had the balls to take a stand against what is obviously an immoral position..how are these strikes any better than a suicide bombing?

 

i started to read 'A Peace to End All Peace' a few weeks ago..

about the fall of the ottoman empire and its subsequent destruction and dviision by the allies post ww1

 

suffice it to say that not every american supports israeli occupation of palestine

it's enlightening

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