presidential elections 2004. whats your vote?

[Poop Man Bob]

Oh, and TEARZ - you're definitely a Top-5-12ozer-I'd-Like-To-Have-A-Beer-With. If you're ever in Austin, hit me up.

[rip]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

Yeah, Bush has shown a ton of compassion for those in the military these past few years (and his entire life).

 

/sarcasm.

 

Read up:

Bush's 'Bring 'em on' speech rings hollow as he cuts benefits for soldiers, veterans

 

Frustrated veterans accuse Bush of breaking promises

 

http://www.awolbush.com/

 

well yeah he kinna does, pays been up, benifits is gettin up there, my life insurence is fuckin high, used to only be 250,000 now i think its like 500,000 im not sure though. now if we get a faggot democrate in office the military will be screwd. pay will go down, benifts will be shot to shit, all because there all peacefull an shit. pussys.

[Guest ikueism]

Originally posted by BROWNer

LIEBERMAN

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fuck that nigguh.his son is the biggest pussy:lol: :crazy:

[Poop Man Bob]

Originally posted by rip

well yeah he kinna does, pays been up, benifits is gettin up there, my life insurence is fuckin high, used to only be 250,000 now i think its like 500,000 im not sure though. now if we get a faggot democrate in office the military will be screwd. pay will go down, benifts will be shot to shit, all because there all peacefull an shit. pussys.

 

Did you read any of the articles I posted?

 

At least read this one.

 

Or find me an article discussing how pay's been raised, your life insurance is up, etc.

 

And shouldn't you be happy with a "peaceful pussy?" Or would you rather face an endless deployment in 130° weather?

[shaolinmasta]

Al Sharpton because his name sounds cool

[Guest BROWNer]

good to hear your steez poopsz, although i think solomon's

arguments for kucinich are pretty heavy duty and i would

be on for kucinich most definitely, i think dean has some qualities

in there.......but just on a completely intuitive funk zone level,

i get a weird vibe off dean. it's hard to put a finger on it other than

saying i get the slickster vibe off of him. kucinich is the ONLY

politician i have never gotten that intuitive slime vibe off of,

which is a large reason why i'm pulling for him. dean, in my op,

has this super-hero vibe going right now, the man who's gonna

save us from bush. he's got a slick campaign and some good

platform styles, BUT, can you honestly see him breaking with

the status quo? to me, the status quo is THE problem, and it's

the thing that somebody like kucinich would fuck up. i'm guessing alot of us

feel that a radical shift needs to take place(at least i think so), but it's not going to

happen until we get behind somebody with that really tangible

community spirit, which kucinich has. alot of people detract from him becuz

of that, it's so alien in the larger scale realm of big politics, but right there is

an indicative example of why we need more people like him getting into the ring.

it SHOULD and COULD be realistic. eehhhhh, i hope that makes sense...

[Guest BROWNer]

here is norman solomon's analysis.

[shaolinmasta]

1 question are there any women, black or asian or anyone of a different race running?

 

beacuse if there not it shows how far humans as a whole have come.

[Poop Man Bob]

Great fucking news.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/archives/bushindex1.gif'>

[nomadawhat]

Originally posted by shaolinmasta

1 question are there any women, black or asian or anyone of a different race running?

 

beacuse if there not it shows how far humans as a whole have come.

 

al sharpton...

 

 

 

good to see that poll.. but bush is going to pull some bullshit to *try to* reverse it... like say, "find" some wmd's in iraq, "kill" o'sama, find another "enemy" and attack... some shit at an opportune time.

[rubbish heap]

1 question are there any women, black or asian or anyone of a different race running?

 

rumor is hilary clinton in 2008?

[Guest TEARZ]

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

Oh, and TEARZ - you're definitely a Top-5-12ozer-I'd-Like-To-Have-A-Beer-With. If you're ever in Austin, hit me up.

 

wordlife dunlop, reciporicality...

[nomadawhat]

Yet another one...

 

Ex-Gen. Clark Decides to Join White House Race

Yahoo Blurb

 

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former NATO (news - web sites) commander Wesley Clark has decided to join the 2004 White House race, making the retired four-star Army general the 10th Democratic presidential candidate, political sources said on Tuesday.

 

Clark, who headed the 1999 NATO bombing campaign in Kosovo but is a political novice, was expected to announce his decision in Little Rock, Arkansas, on Wednesday.

 

His entry, widely anticipated by many Democrats, throws another wild card into an already unpredictable campaign.

 

Clark, who had agonized over his decision for months, has been meeting with potential donors and supporters and recently began interviewing prospective campaign managers.

 

Whether the decorated Vietnam veteran will be a campaign trail star or dud is a subject of much debate among Democrats, who still do not know much about the political rookie.

 

 

 

 

-- this could be interesting.

 

 

 

Looks like Micheal Moore got his wish.... A letter for MICHel Moore to clark:

 

Dear General Wesley Clark,

I've been meaning to write to you for some time. Two days after the

Oscars, when I felt very alone and somewhat frightened by the level of hatred toward me for daring to suggest that we were being led into war for "fictitious reasons," one person stuck his neck out and came to my defense on national television.

And that person was you.

 

Aaron Brown had just finished interviewing me by satellite on CNN, and I had made a crack about me being "the only non-general allowed on CNN all week." He ended the interview and then turned to you, as you were sitting at the desk with him. He asked you what you thought of this crazy guy, Michael Moore. And, although we were still in Week One of the war, you boldly said that my dissent was necessary and welcome, and you pointed out that I was against Bush and his "policies," not the kids in the service. I sat in Flint with the earpiece still in my ear and I was floored -- a GENERAL standing up for me and, in effect, for all the millions who were opposed to the war but had been bullied into silence.

Since that night, I have spent a lot of time checking you out. And what I've learned about you corresponds to my experience with you back in

March. You seem to be a man of integrity. You seem not afraid to speak the truth. I liked your answer when you were asked your position on gun control: "If you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you -- the United States Army. We have them."

In addition to being first in your class at West Point, a four star general

from Arkansas, and the former Supreme Commander of NATO -- enough right there that should give pause to any peace-loving person -- I have discovered that...

 

1. You oppose the Patriot Act and would fight the expansion of its

powers.

 

2. You are firmly pro-choice.

 

3. You filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the

University of Michigan's affirmative action case.

 

4. You would get rid of the Bush tax "cut" and make the rich pay

their fair share.

 

5. You respect the views of our allies and want to work with them and

with the rest of the international community.

 

6. And you oppose war. You have said that war should always be the

"last resort" and that it is military men such as yourself who are the most for peace because it is YOU and your soldiers who have to do the dying. You find something unsettling about a commander-in-chief who dons a flight suit and pretends to be Top Gun, a stunt that dishonored those who have died in that flight suit in the service of their country.

 

General Clark, last night I finally got to meet you in person. I would like

to share with others what I said to you privately: You may be the

person who can defeat George W. Bush in next year's election.

 

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have

liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some

capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into have a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

 

But right now, for the sake and survival of our very country, we need

someone who is going to get The Job done, period. And that job, no

matter whom I speak to across America -- be they leftie Green or

conservative Democrat, and even many disgusted Republicans -- EVERYONE is of one mind as to what that job is:

 

Bush Must Go.

 

This is war, General, and it's Bush & Co.'s war on us. It's their war

on the middle class, the poor, the environment, their war on women and their war against anyone around the world who doesn't accept total American domination. Yes, it's a war -- and we, the people, need a general to beat back those who have abused our Constitution and our basic sense of decency.

 

The General vs. the Texas Air National Guard deserter! I want to see

that debate, and I know who the winner is going to be.

 

The other night, when you were on Bill Maher's show, he began by reading to you a quote from Howard Dean where he (Dean) tried to run away from the word "liberal." Maher said to you, so, General, do you want to run away from that word? Without missing a beat, you said "No!" and you reminded everyone that America was founded as a "liberal democracy." The audience went wild with applause.

 

That is what we have needed for a long time on our side -- guts. I am

sure there are things you and I don't see eye to eye on, but now is the

time for all good people from the far left to the middle of the road to bury the damn hatchet and get together behind someone who is not only good on the issues but can beat George W. Bush. And where I come from in the Midwest,

General, I know you are the kind of candidate that the average American will vote for.

 

Michael Moore likes a general? I never thought I'd write these words.

But desperate times call for desperate measures. I want to know more

about you. I want your voice heard. I would like to see you in these debates. Then let the chips fall where they may -- and we'll all have a better idea of what to do. If you sit it out, then I think we all know what we are left with.

 

I am asking everyone I know to send an email to you now to encourage

you to run, even if they aren't sure they would vote for you. (Wesley

Clark's email address is: mailto:info@leadershipforamerica.org

<mailto:info@leadershipforamerica.org> ). None of us truly know how

we will vote five months from now or a year from now. But we do know

that this race needs a jolt -- and Bush needs to know that there is one

person he won't be able to Dukakisize.

 

Take the plunge, General Clark. At the very least, the nation needs

to hear what you know about what was really behind this invasion of Iraq and your fresh ideas of how we can live in a more peaceful world. Yes, your country

needs you to perform one more act of brave service -- to help defeat

an enemy from within, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, an address that used to belong to "we, the people."

 

Yours,

 

Michael Moore

Lottery # 275, U.S. military draft, 1972

Conscientious Objector applicant

>mailto:mmflint@aol.com <mailto:mmflint@aol.com>

 

http://www.michaelmoore.com <http://www.michaelmoore.com/>

[Vanity]

Originally posted by BROWNer

.......but just on a completely intuitive funk zone level,

i get a weird vibe off dean. it's hard to put a finger on it other than

saying i get the slickster vibe off of him.

 

word.. cat just seems like he just cares about power. if dean gets the primary, i wont vote for him... same w/ the leibmeister. i won't choose the lesser of two evils. and i don't care who kucinich "supports." a lot of these cats running are just going for that target demographic for the sake of the party, so they can "support" whoever gets the nomination and sell their votes.

[Guest TEARZ]

for the clark supporters

 

"Wesley Clark's High Noon Moment"

From The Nation 9/12

by Katrina vanden Heuvel

 

It was reported today that retired four-star General, ardent critic of Bush's national security policies, telegenic TV commentator, and recently declared Democrat Wesley Clark will enter the crowded presidential race?

 

Democrats believe that Clark, as a former military officer, could make the party more viable on foreign affairs than it's been since a general named George Marshall was containing Communism under the command of a president named Harry Truman. (That's the conventional wisdom, though the staggering cost of the badly bungled Iraqi occupation has diminished the Republican advantage on defense no matter who runs against Bush.)

 

While media commentary on Clark's prospective candidacy has been almost entirely favorable--even adulatory--it's worth looking back at a forgotten chapter in his military biography that occurred when Clark was Supreme Allied Commander of NATO and Commander In Chief for the US European Command. Call it Clark's "High Noon" showdown. It's an incident that deserves scrutiny because Clark's claim to be an experienced leader in national security matters is tied, in significant part, to his record in the Balkans.

 

On June 12, 1999, in the immediate aftermath of NATO's air war against Yugoslavia, a small contingent of Russian troops dashed to occupy the Pristina airfield in Kosovo. Clark was so anxious to stop the Russians that he ordered an airborne assault to confront these units--an order which could have unleashed the most frightening showdown with Moscow since the end of the Cold War. Hyperbole? You can decide. But British General Michael Jackson, the three-star general and commander of K-FOR, the international force organized and commanded by NATO to enforce an agreement in Kosovo, told Clark: "Sir, I'm not starting world war three for you," when refusing to accept his order to prevent Russian forces from taking over the airport. (Jackson was rightly worried that any precipitous NATO action could risk a confrontation with a nuclear- armed Russia and upset the NATO-led peacekeeping plan just getting underway with the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo.)

 

After being rebuffed by Jackson, Clark, according to various media reports at the time, then ordered Admiral James Ellis, the American in charge of NATO's southern command, to use Apache helicopters to occupy the airfield. Ellis didn't comply--replying that British General Jackson would oppose such a move. Had Clark's orders been followed, the subsequent NATO- negotiated compromise with the Russians--a positive element in the roller- coaster relationship between Moscow and Washington, which eventually incorporated Russian troops into peacekeeping operations--might well have been undermined.

 

In the end, Russian reinforcements were stopped when Washington persuaded Hungary, a new NATO member, to refuse to allow Russian aircraft to fly over its territory. Meanwhile, Jackson was appealing to senior British authorities, who persuaded Clinton Administration officials--some of whom had previously favored occupying the airport--to drop support for Clark's hotheaded plan. As a result, when Clark appealed to Washington, he was rebuffed at the highest levels. His virtually unprecedented showdown with a subordinate subsequently prompted hearings by the Armed Forces Services Committee, which raised sharp questions about NATO's chain of command.

 

As a Guardian article said at the time, "The episode triggers reminscences of the Korean War. Then, General Douglas MacArthur, commander of the UN force, wanted to invade, even nuke, China, until he was brought to heel by President Truman." Of course, the comparison is inexact. The stakes were not as high in the Balkans, but Clark's hip-shooting willingness to engage Russian troops in a risky military showdown at the end of the war is instructive nonetheless.

 

Indeed, it is believed in military circles that Clark's Pristina incident was the final straw that led the Pentagon to relieve him of his duties (actually retire him earlier). Clark had also angered the Pentagon brass--and Secretary of Defense William Cohen in particular--with his numerous media appearances and repeated public requests for more weapons and for more freedom to wage the Kosovo war the way he wanted (with ground troops). At one point, according to media reports, Defense Secretary Cohen, through Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Hugh Shelton, told Clark to "get your fucking face off of TV."

 

In recent years, it's only fair to note, Clark has insisted in interviews and in his memoir Waging Modern War that the incident was a surprising moment for him. Clark said that his order to confront the Russian troops was refused by an emotional General Jackson, who took the matter up the British chain of command, where General Charles Guthrie, British Chief of Defence, said that he agreed with Jackson. Guthrie, according to Clark, told him that Joint Chiefs Chairman Shelton also agreed with the British. This surprised Clark because he claims that the original suggestion to block the Russians came from Washington. Clark maintains that the matter was a policy problem between the US and British governments and insists that he was carrying out the suggestions of the Clinton Administration.

 

Despite concerns this incident raises, it remains a fact that the Clark candidacy is a tantalizing prospect. Clark says he is a liberal Democrat who favors abortion rights, affirmative action, gun control and progressive economic policies. He has also spoken eloquently about basing America's role in the world on the country's better principles: "generosity, humility, engagement..."

 

The other day, Clark told Bill Maher on HBO that this country was founded on "the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues…We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back."

 

Perhaps Clark has learned that building alliances--and not risking showdowns--is more crucial than ever in these perilous times? It would be good to hear from the general himself now that he has decided to run for president.

[Guest TEARZ]

ps- dean does give me the scummy vibe too. but he'd also get my boost versus dubya.

[Vanity]

i'd write in before i settle.

 

the one thing that dean's campaign did lous y on was having him open his commercials with "that's why i approved this statement"

 

ha ha, wow, a guy that can approve his own words.

[Guest TEARZ]

mental invalid, you peepin this shit?

[Guest TEARZ]

for all my nerdsz

[Guest BROWNer]

nice snafu dunny lop.

 

i just realized who this clark guy is...he's the

mouthpiece i saw on cnn all the time back when

i had cable. no way i trust that dude. and

watch michael moore too, dude is lap dancin'

for clark in a thong.

[Vanity]

yeah, fuck michael moore... he can be funny sometimes....

but politically, he aint shit.

[Guest BROWNer]

i wouldn't say fuck michael moore, but...

i just find him way less than rigorous..

 

so..if anyone wants to read moore's googoogaga

over clark it can be found here, along

with practically every article ever written on the wesley clark,

the new media darling.

^

[Vanity]

i would...

his counter culture show was amusing.. his hit on nbc was kinda lame.

bowling for columbine was funny, but he didn't get into any real arguments against weapons, just tried to belittle people, and when you're making a movie, it's pretty easy.

 

i haven't read anything of his, except some stuff on his site here and there... i remember him complaining after 911, how before he'd just hand the airport guard a bag, say it's a sandwich, and the guard didn't even check.. but he seems like the same kind of cat that would have been complaining about needless spending on airports a week before.

 

i dunno.. he just seems egotistical, judgemental, self-righteous, and doesn't fight fair.

[Guest BROWNer]

well, whatever..guy is dedicated to takin' bush down,

and he's got moms and dads listening, packaged in this

morally lightweight dramedy style, so he's got some worth, right?

the new book is coming out, and he's backing it up with

a movie on how bush is connected to 9/11...

dude needs to shave though.

 

on another paranoid note, today on msnbc they have this

article raging on about how wesley clark is now

way ahead of every other dem and he just fucking rolled

up last week! are people blind? i'm sick of this dude already,

and not becuz he's jostlin' up the scene..i just don't like him.

dude kinda smellsz to me.

what really sucked, was that kucinich had a lousy 2%

poll approval, while clark was at 48% or something, over

even bush. what the fuck? this guy is on some shit or

something...but he's just another status quo lovin' good ol' boy.

wait..i smell grey propaganda.......rove hooked up dude

to rock the dem anti-war position, the alternative to bush,

and come his election, dude does the splits on it all. if rove

was REALLY clever........no?

[Guest TEARZ]

just as a quick frame of reference for those of you that think that it's impossible for him to win and thus shouldn't be supported:

 

bill clinton was polling at 4% in NOVEMBER '91.

 

it's doable.

 

i just arranged two speaking engagements for the dude this afternoon. he might cancel though, haha.

 

clark smells fishy yo. i swear americans see some military uniform and they come running up to lick balls. it's the fucking might makes right mentality...

[DREDZ]

Carol Mosley Braun (I think I spelled her last name wrong) is running, and honestly, she is the one I see myself voting for.

[Vanity]

yeah, clark.. bleh.... he just seems kind of like "lets get our man on their side, then they have to vote for the same thing no matter what"

[Guest TEARZ]

the real patriot act- my man doin' his thing

 

Congressman Dennis Kucinich continued his leadership today

on Capitol Hill today by introducing the first comprehensive

bill to repeal offensive sections of the misnamed "USA PATRIOT

Act." The Kucinich bill -- called the "Benjamin Franklin True

Patriot Act" -- is already supported by the ACLU, NAACP, a

Jewish group, an Islamic group, and 20 members of Congress.

 

Kucinich's bill would repeal sections of the original "PATRIOT

Act," that authorize 'sneak and peak' searches; warrantless

library, medical, educational, and financial record searches;

and the detention and deportation of non-citizens without

meaningful judicial review. Passage would be the final deadline

-- or death -- for the "PATRIOT Act."

 

Rep. Kucinich is the only presidential candidate who voted

against the "PATRIOT Act" in October, 2001. The other Democrats

in Congress currently running for president all voted for it --

and Howard Dean has said, "I never criticize them for that" in

view of the post-9/11 pressure. Congressman Kucinich stood up

to the pressure then...and now.

 

At a news conference today, Kucinich invoked the words of Ben

Franklin, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase

a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

Kucinich added: "Will we stand by as the Administration formulates

a second more dangerous "PATRIOT Act" because, in the President's

words, 'the first bill didn't go far enough'? Or will we step

back from this atmosphere of fear and work to restore our basic

freedoms and rights? With the introduction of the True Patriot

Act, I say we take back our Constitution."

[DISCO BRYSO]

michael moore came here and soon realized he has the same name as the ex-head of the WTO.. but tons of people still showed up to "riot"... stupid. I like him just as much as the next guy/girl, but shit... how much of one person's opinion do we need? he's famous alright.

 

and just so you know.. I'm voting for lyndon larouche.

[rubbish heap]

this is exactly the reason i support kucinich... supporting groups like the ALCU and defending the constitution... he's making decisions based on morality, not popular opinion.