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roler one tm7

the faith of aerosol/graffiti art

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peace yall, grandpa graff here, been off the boards for a sec, been busy holdin down business and all but now that i`ve returned to check things out it seems that all i see is bickering over who bit who or other nonsense but no art, a lot of keep it realness about fr8`s, leagals and street work, my boy serum told me that all that is on here is young heads talkin shit but no art, you got these long ass`ed threads on he said she said bullshit but no art, tons of tags in the bricks section but no art, when some dopeness does come up it`s from the cats from over sea`s, here in japan i get virtually all the mags because it`s my business to follow the artform and i love this artform for good or bad, it seems every page from the european mags are productions and usa is mostly bombin or just handful of "stars" that are in every mag, has the usa fallin off and is it jealous because other countries have raised the bar and promoted this artform with more passion than we have? at one time you could make the arguement that they had better paint than we did but no more designer paint is within everyones reach virtually, except for if your holdin it down third world style...holla at me and let me know what you think, let`s keep it as educated as possible, these urban hieroglyphics that we flexed now will be studied 100 years from now by scholars from madd different places, where will your nom de plum fall....holla...one

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your probably right glik0, but i figure most headz that roll this would be into piecein`, and since you took the time come thru and pop a lil shit, be opinated as the rest, also i like the mr. inquisitive title...

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Originally posted by roler one tm7

these urban hieroglyphics that we flexed now will be studied 100 years from now by scholars from madd different places, where will your nom de plum fall....holla...one

 

im feeling your use of propper english and your ebonic spice man.

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i'm not really into threads without flicks, but step the fuck back if you don't think that roler, waqs and greed weren't some of the illest mutherfuckers ever out of NY.

 

if this is really roler, respect.

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id be curious to see what your oppinion of who and why in the u.s is doing good for the scene as a whole, whether it be innovation, style, artisticly, or just drivin for the better of the cause. youve started off intelectually, but im curious to see your side, you sell paint, that seems to benefit the scene in nyc, but how can it progress with all the bullshit goin on in the city these days, the way i see it a group of people good or bad get together to do somethin big, and the fad sems to be to bash them with the golden line "legal eagle" lol, the funny part behind this is it was a term used by espo while he was painting legaly, when i would say he was a 50/50 legal ilegal artist. but that qoute set a funny standard that it was the "cool" point you had to be at to feel important to the massses of nobodies. if you were a nobody you could simply term someone a "legal eagle" and instantly be someone who was daring and crazzzzzzzzy. lol

im ramblin, yo roler,gimme your answer for my earlier questions, ive never met you i dont think, but i knew tich from doin the freedom tunnels back in like 92- 93?? back when u could just walk up in that shit from the park on 72nd, walk around the felnce by the busted piere on th water.. those were the days..........

peace to the old 24.7 crew, ranks, scm, baise, tedones and them.

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Guest beardo

you know, its ok to have some good old fashioned discussion once in a while, even in the photo section of the site, as long as its on topic and not full of retards spouting off ignorance. you wont get banned, i promise.

 

this is a good topic, which happens to have been discussed amongst my friends quite a bit lately. and he's right, most of the people who would/should reply to this wont see it in any forum but this one.

 

so im going to delete all the bullshit replies to this and we can start again.

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i think there are alot of people in the usa who are doing very good graffiti artwork, but the mentality of most people in this country is to aspire to a norm or pre-set standard. very few people in the graffiti world will appreciate and embrace new styles until it's published in a magazine or something. graffiti writers are just people, you can see a bit of each person in the graffiti-art they do and how they do it, be it a tag or throw-up or piece or character, but people in general are not open-minded and are generally afraid of what other people might think if they form their own opinions, which makes them afraid to do something new or from the heart.

i saw some flix of tm7 styles that were real liquidy and cool..nice stuff.

im sure some 12oz goons will jump all over me for this, but that's my point exactly...

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Originally posted by roler one tm7

peace yall, grandpa graff here, been off the boards for a sec, been busy holdin down business and all but now that i`ve returned to check things out it seems that all i see is bickering over who bit who or other nonsense but no art, a lot of keep it realness about fr8`s, leagals and street work, my boy serum told me that all that is on here is young heads talkin shit but no art, you got these long ass`ed threads on he said she said bullshit but no art, tons of tags in the bricks section but no art, when some dopeness does come up it`s from the cats from over sea`s, here in japan i get virtually all the mags because it`s my business to follow the artform and i love this artform for good or bad, it seems every page from the european mags are productions and usa is mostly bombin or just handful of "stars" that are in every mag, has the usa fallin off and is it jealous because other countries have raised the bar and promoted this artform with more passion than we have? at one time you could make the arguement that they had better paint than we did but no more designer paint is within everyones reach virtually, except for if your holdin it down third world style...holla at me and let me know what you think, let`s keep it as educated as possible, these urban hieroglyphics that we flexed now will be studied 100 years from now by scholars from madd different places, where will your nom de plum fall....holla...one

 

 

heh, i think i know serum from the giant robot forum...

 

 

i think in the u.s. everyone's afraid of being called art fags and wants to be hardcore and shit...

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see this what i`m talkin bout open ended discussion, i can`t really judge outside of what i see in nyc and the tri-state area when i`m in the states and usually when i hollar i get "nah money theres not to much goin on" but i know theres a gang of hot cats doin shit everywhere, but it seems to be a sprinkle, i maybe wrong and get at me if i am but i think overseas maybe more about the uniform production other than self promotion, i`ve seen nasty work from texas, atlanta and whatnot, but i just do not see the level and scale of work from over this way, take for example the big wall in the NYC HOF, mad old/middle school there(Part.TDS, Muse.Wallnuts, Per.FX, Eaz.FX ,Flite1 (unfinished) T-Kid, Dez, Cope2 ), but no unformity, nothin to tie the wall together, just names and color, in MY opinion not deep, do you think if that was a foreign production they would have went in that direction, no, here in japan they got some of the most talented artist out and the great thing about here is that you can do a piece leave for 10 years, come back and it won`t get crossed, not even nicked, thats how much respect level is, theres maddd faded work here, i do bench a lot of websites from all over this 3rd rock but it seems to me that once something dope is done it is immediately dissed in the states or as dirty sanchez says theres drama even to get permission to do a wall, the beast takin pictures or comin to your place of biz tryin to front like they`re writers (lol) but is that because they truley can`t differenciate btw street bombers and the masterpiecers or is it that they just don`t want to? next up to the podium.....

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i thought of a couple of things while reading this.

 

one is that this is the internet, clearly certain people get a lot of play on it while others who are doing things do not get as much publicity.

basically it comes down to the writers or so called writers who take flicks and know how to post-as far as 12oz there in charge of showing whats going on in the graff world. also, as we all know talking behind a screen breeds a boat load of shit talkers.

 

another thing is that kids many youths now a day's are really screwed up. personally it seems to me that they are exposed to crap at an early age including mtv, the internet, etc etc....maybe its just me, but it seems like many of todays youths are really big assholes. (i was born in january 77 for the record)

 

europe has a really nice scene no doubt, its a different scene all together. i was in europe two years ago and saw burners on the side of barns in the countryside. its just plain different. but damn good.

 

lastly, and i'm sorry this is so long, i was reading this book about skateboarind i think and the author pointed out that kids now a days see someone doing something down twenty stairs and know its possible. where as back when i was a kid that was virtually unheard of. clearly the same applies to graffiti today.

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one more thing before i crash it`s 3:30 am here in japan, there seems to be no mentors anymore, none of the young headz want to be under the wing, or at least admit that they are somewhat under the wing from afar, i know the designer paint makes it easier these days but even a master has a mentor....holla

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Originally posted by roler one tm7

one more thing before i crash it`s 3:30 am here in japan, there seems to be no mentors anymore, none of the young headz want to be under the wing, or at least admit that they are somewhat under the wing from afar, i know the designer paint makes it easier these days but even a master has a mentor....holla

 

agreed.

i came into the graffiti world under a mentor, he was my seniour me his junior, i learned handstyles, fillins and how to execute productions.

the one thing that i see lacking these days is the "mentor"

there is really only one sided action going on. i only piece, i only bomb, i only catch tags... etc.

what i find missing and most upsetting in todays graffiti scene is the well rounded painter, the one that understands every facet of the scene.

understands what his or her place is in the grand scheme of things.

 

the problem is that everyone wants everything now, and nobody understands that what they make today may well be the cave paintings when we are all done.

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Guest KUKU 1er

....

 

it would be nice to see some flicks thooo.....

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To add my two cents into this conversation....

 

It seems to me that graffiti is still a different world out in europe. The paint companies out there design and sell paint, even compete with each other, specifically with graffiti writers in mind. Companies sponsor graffiti events, writers are sponsored by paint companies, and it has almost an air or legitimacy. In the US, we will never see graffiti paint made by a domestic company. You'll also never see a writer who is sponsored by a paint company, clothing line, etc. (at least I doubt it) It's just a different world here. I don't know how hard it is to get a wall in a given city....say Hamburg, but it's almost impossible out here. If you mention graffiti or spray paint, they don't want anything to do with it. The stigma is so pervasive, in the connotations with gangs and crime, that no company concerned with their image is going to get within 100 feet of a writer, no matter how talented.

 

I really can't speak for the european scene, since I've never been there and have no firsthand knowledge, but where I live there is virtually no respect, unless you're an NYC old school king, and then that's not even a given. Painting certain walls you can almost be guaranteed to get gone over by some generic shit in less that 24 hours. Why take the time to paint something good? It's more or less a big fashion show and a lot of masculine posturing. I wonder if it's like that everywhere. Is it really important to go to a wall and try to outdo everyone else on it? Or is it more important to paint a piece for yourself and maybe a friend or two that will really get amped on what you're doing.

 

I just paint by myself or with a couple close friends at secret spots, and make an occasional appearance at a jam or some big permission thing that will run. I think the graffiti scene, media, and other people's opinions kill a lot of creativity in graffiti.

 

The less you pay attention, the truer your artwork will be.

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"people's opinions kill a lot of creativity in graffiti"

"The less you pay attention, the truer your artwork will be."

 

Sooo true, Old Growth

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Guest willy.wonka

hmmm..i read some of your stuff, but it jumps from person to person..

i dont care about "getting up".all i care about is if my piece comes out nice or better than i thought it would.

 

i think im from the second or early third generation of spray can graffiti artists...shit has changed, but remians the same.i would really like to meet some of the people that inspired me.i even had a dream of going back to the future and showing SEEN some skill and the caps we use.i burned his ass..lol.

 

i dont care for other graf heads(that i dont know), but appreciate thier stuff...i dont consider myself to be hip hop... i just watch people try to be grafheads and watch the boombaclauts fall.graf has taken to the mainstream like woah..i dont like seeing it in car commercials and shit like that, but its always good....i guess.

 

other than that, i might not know what im talking about.

 

every kid on my block wants to be graffilthy...hawaii has a shit load of newborn grafheads every day.girls love it out here and i gota love that.

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Guest willy.wonka

Europe sounds fantastic with that stuff...i like what dynamo said too.

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Guest imported_b0b
Originally posted by willy.wonka

Europe sounds fantastic with that stuff...i like what dynamo said too.

Well I live in europe and reading that there made me feel the same as you. In reality though that stuff doesn't really effect the average writer. Doesn't make what you are doing any less illegal. There are like only 30 writers (at the max) getting sponsored. There aren't stalls on every street corner giving away free paint. And yes there are jams, but they happen in the States too. Thee is good quality paint, which you can only get by paying for it. It is only sold in graf shops or by mail order. Which means if you want to rack paint you end up with shitty paint (shitter that US paint). A lot of what was said about Europe was actually about Germany. In London we have the same situation with stuff lasting as respect, it just dont happen so yes it does seem like it is like that in a lot of places.

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What I find most ridiculous about American graff-

 

1. There are way too many tuff guys, who like to

fight and protect there honor, but in reality are

just nervous insecure dudes who want their art to

be appreciated.

 

2. People have a really hard time taking

criticisms about their work but are very quick to

say how wack some one else is.

 

3. I hate being asked how I think some thing

looks when I know most people don’t want my

open and honest opinion. If I think it sucks or

could be better, so what who am I, besides the

person you asked. Most people want the generic

reassurance of, " oh that’s fresh man, couldn't be

fresher"

 

4. If you cant find problems with even your

favorite work it will never get better.

 

5. "Real writers are really scared of what they

don’t understand. If it doesn’t fit the "Graff" mold,

tags, letters, 3ds, so on, its not graff? Wtf is that.

If it’s done in public Illegally IT IS GRAFFITI. End.

 

6. Graffiti is at its heart a rebel art form it only

makes sense that at this point there should be a

lot of people making their own rules. There will

always be folks who hold the origins in high

esteem, but their willingness to freeze it in time is

stupid and very short sighted.

 

7. The last thing is that I have often thought that

because of the world wars destroying much of

Europe, as well as being a pre-war design power

house. The Ensuing reconstruction, re-design has

lead Europeans of our generation have a greater

natural sense of design, not to mention most of

my favorite design stuff, print, web, package

design, and motion graphics are bested by

Europeans. When I was in Holland I was

awestruck at the level of design that went into

really mundane stuff, like highway barriers. The

American aesthetic is so unrefined in comparison,

American cars are a perfect example, they work,

but their level of design sux. This is only a theory

so far but there is something there. But I feel like

this in some ways has helped them better

integrate the American formula of letters and

characters. For a long time I shied away from

characters cause I never got the connection

between letters and some random cartoon or

photographic representation.

 

 

 

Any way I haven’t had power for over 18 hours so I’m ranting a lil sorry.

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roler one tm7------ oh yeah mr sanchez, i do remember those freedom tunnels with the freedom pieces in there and the subdwellers, those were the gold ol days....

 

 

 

BUMP FOR BERNARD!!!!!!

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