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niso

graffiti fashion

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i think hixsepts non graffiti clothing is excellent, i think they have good desgins for tshirts and would wear them anyday.

 

too bad u cant get hixsept in the us.

and also, there site has a great design, and they used polariods to take pictures of there clothing, i thought that looked great

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It's interesting how kids that write have such a natural tendancy to hold each other back. Perhaps, it's my ignorance to other subcultures that makes me feel like maybe writers are the only ones that really go out of their way to do this.

 

However, growing up, I spent almost an equal time amongst kids that skated. Though it's not the same, it has many parallels considering both are (were) considered countercultures, both are dominated by young males, both often center around ego and competition, and though not always, both are often illegal activities. I can recall when the skate culture felt threatened by the commercialization of the industry that supported it, though I dont really recall many gripes about 'skate' shirts. However, I also remember that most kids were quick to weed out the companies that were obviously trying to cash in on the culture versus the companies that were supplying quality product that eventually led to the culture (sport) evolving into the powerhouse it is today. The fly by night companies, the companies led by outsiders, and the ones distributing garbage are hardly a memory anymore, and you now have a whole slew of stuff that keeps the culture exciting and strong. Capitalism generally works like darwinism, where you usually end up with a survival of the fittest.

 

As stated, it's tough to compare skating to graff, but I feel the comparison in this case has some validity. With most the legitimate world looking to lynch writers (like they were with skaters back in the days), it seems writers would be more compelled to try and stick together and bring each other up, rather than expend so much energy to keep holding each other back, and by default, the culture itself. I'm not pro or against writers doing 'graff' shirts, but I think it's a shame to limit yourself over a stigma that's not really based on anything substantial. The culture won't play itself out over some shirts, or over some hipster design trend. You'll simply have the natural ebb and flow of popularity that most things cycle through in this world from politics, to art movements, to styles.

 

I say go do your thing and screw the preconceptions. If you deliver quality and integrity, those that matter will see it and hopefully support it. The sooner you drop your fucked up preconceptions, the sooner we can move on to more interesting and dynamic times.

 

Just my two cents™

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Guest sneak

^^its funny you say that in your experience skating can be mixed with graff. im not disputing this, just that from what ive seen in my scene, skaters dont tend to be into graff.

 

graff seems to be done (again, im chatting about my scene) by fucking pikey rudeboys who think they are all that. i knew a few skater writers and they didnt last long. they got lined everything...

 

hell, i dont even know why im typing this.

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what are you saying sneak?

 

I think that most of the writers I know got their first taste

of graffiti though the skate market as opposed to the hiphop

market. We were always checking out new board designs and

after the 'skull and bones' motif moved out, it seems like graf

moved in. With guys like Giant doing work for Think it would

make sence that the little skate monkeys would start to get an

eye for those styles.

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truthfully, I got my first taste for graff from the whole Subway Art/Beat Street era, when both were new drops. However, graff at that time (at least in Miami) wasnt even strong enough to be considered a subculture yet. Rather it was a past time we did, that later kind of bonded a lot of us together as we moved up through skating and the punk/hard core scene. It didn't begin to have enough momentum to stand on it's own until about 89 or so from my experience. But like I said, I grew up in Miami, not the Bronx. I'm sure Europe was even more different.

 

Still doesnt rebute my arguement though.

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kilo, the thing you gotta know about my scene is that graff is a big thing for the stereotypical rudeboys.

 

the majority of the writers i know, dont listen to hip hop at all. they like ukgaage and dnb. skating tended to be seen as a"grunger" thing and for some reason there were no grunger writers.

 

this isnt that clear at all. if you dont get me, ask a specific q and ill try to expalin

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Its funny Cause growing up for me, Skating and graffiti went almost hand in hand. Im sure it's different areas that tend to have different trends or associations, like sneaks saying about the views on skaters where hes at.

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in my city there is quite a few sk8ing graff crews as sk8ing was more troditonly punk. its now in my area not hip hop culture but its what the kids are listing to hip hop so as they come in to hip hop they pick up over aspects such as graff saying that most of the crew who st8 are shit!

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Originally posted by Misteraven

Still doesnt rebute my arguement though.

 

i wasnt trying to have an arguement. just thought id share.

 

i suppose the main difference is that the area im from has a relativly young scene. we dont have old cats still hitting up. the heads who got me interested in graff are now in jail and dont write. plus we didnt get beat street and style wars when they came out.

 

god, im not making any sense today.

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Well it really doesn't matter how people started doing grafitti,

weither it was because they happened to be around it or if they

just happend to see it and want to try doing it. This fourm illustrates

every day that people from all across the social spectrum got involved

and decided to stick it out. Raven's got a great point about how we

try to keep our little thing exclusive. That might exist in other scenes

where competition is involved, but those other scenes have matured.

If a new band sucks but they love the music, then people will tollerate

them. If a new skater cant ollie but he just loves to roll down hills, he's

not hated because he's doing it for the simple pleasure. However in our

scene people will cross ouy 'toys' just because they think that's how it's

supposed to be. That probably wont change, but maybe one day we'll be

able to loosen our tight grip on our precious little 'subculture' and we'll

get that new blood that keeps things from going stagnant.

 

.02 indeed.

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there is still new blood coming through.

i think its good that they may have to go through all the crossing out etc first. it shows that they have the lasting power.

i got lined out when i first started and so did the people i wrote with. difference is that i kept on going after that and dealings with police. the others didnt.

 

in a way, i like how "exclusive" our sub culture can be. i feel like im part of something not many people know about.

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Originally posted by sneak

i feel like im part of something not many people know about.

 

oh everybody knows about it.

"those damn kiiids spray patinted my garage!!"

 

We think we're 'defenders of the cause' because we preach about artistic merit.

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again, its just clothes. its simple as this, if you like it, sport it. if not...

 

i remember recieving an 'obey' shirt for my birthday once from my sister. well, i sported it to a party, and this writer tells me,

 

'how can you wear that, i'd rather get myself up before someone else'

 

at the time i started thinking through that little graffiti mind aswell, but then simply said 'hey man, its just a shirt'

 

and thats still true to this day... who really gives a fuck, its not about what you wear, its about what you do.

 

no fucking shirt is going to kill the culture and if it does effect it in some way, who really gives a fuck... the ones who are really about it will continue to be about it and go on doing there thing.

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good point, and along the same lines as my conclusion... if you like it, buy it. eventually, this will only leave companies that are putting out product that's worth something. bullshit fly by night companies will blow a wad to try and jump on the trend only to be gone the next day when no one buys into their crappy knockoffs.

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what I would have figured to be a larger debate would be the flood of 'urban' companies that built empires on the graff aesthetic. though I still feel the same way about it, where does this leave companies like ecko, triple 5 soul, etc... that are defintely not writer founded, owned, or operated, yet still rake in loads of cash selling gear to kids that's clearly heavily influenced by writers and their culture?

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everything is played out. ill bet truckers are fuming mad right now because of the new trucker hat cool guy sk8r boy post neo pop punk trend. graffiti is getting cool on t shirts. it always kinda was there. being a surfer is cool too, i live in the fucking mountains and i see kids rocking quicksilver dry fit surf clothes. why? i dont know. the closest place to surf here is an easy 14 hour drive.

 

why do i go to london and see people wearing wrangler jeans? and carhartt jean jackets, they are neither cowboys or probably know little about being a construction worker while theyre browsing oxford street. or the new italian trend of rocking english footbal club t shirts. even spelled wrong. ill bet the liverpool and man u fans are up in arms as well as cowboys and construction workers about those people rocking their fresh gear.

 

alot of stuff gets stolen, tossed around, used, reused, into hipster culture. graffiti just happens to be one of them. get used to it, because itll be cool for a while then end up in some cool guys moms basement with his box of zoobas, members only jackets, fanny packs (surprisingly 80's trasher fashion is cool now), and other assorted neon hats, vaurnet france, hypercolour, chip and pepper wet wear, and other cool guy items.

 

go ahead, keep it real, dont sellout. you cant change mainstream fashion from the computer. who cares. its just a fad. like everything else. who am i to talk?

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I slightly disagree.

 

I really doubt truckers or construction workers really care either way. I'd even be surprised if they happen to notice. Regardless, when a group of people like what they wear, why'd they be offended if another demographic suddenly realized it's merit and started sporting it too?

 

This is kinda straying off the topic since we're debating why writers hate on writer produced clothing.

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"However I do have a problem with the acceleration of this embrace that designers on the whole have given graffiti aesthetics, I am of teh opinion that (like mentioned before) if this continues, the adopted style of an artistic movemnet(which graffiti most certainly is) will be consumed and thrown away like anything that passes through the fashion world."

 

> I agree with you completely. I think we can all easily agree that 'Graffiti' fashions will eventually fade, especially in the higher end markets and those companies who are true to the culture will remain. Only because of reputation. If 'Graffiti' inspired fashion goes by the way side in a year, like most hot fashions, good for us. Yea, it'll be harder for a writer/ designer to make his money but that's only because his target market has gone from the world back to the culture itself. And besides his pocket being a little bit more empty... there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not sure what continent you're on, but in America 'Graffiti' fashions aren't a huge seller. Especially not with writers. Unless they happen to be writers/ hip-hop enthusiasts. However, I do think in Europe that such inspred fashions will continue to thrive. Mostly due to the quality and forward thinking designs that are coming out of there. Just like here in America, writing is expected to be more tradional while in most countries outside of North America the artistic value is stronger. And in my personal opinion, neither is wrong.

 

" I can handle it , like you said it has been around for quite along time, just not to this degree, I am all for writers that have contributed strongly to make a buck off graffiti later in their lives, but I see it as a kick in the teeth when ppl like 123Klan (I will continue to use them as an example) get paid to tour the world giving lectures on graffiti style and teaching impressionable kids how to do adobe illustrator tags, are doing very well from selling graffiti as a product when they have never risked anything for it. By diect comparison I see someone like NYC's Stay High ,a hugly influencial bomber, struggling to get by.

Again this is why I mentioned Wane COD, He has put in alot to graffiti, and put his balls on the line over and over (He continues to do this now after how ever many years) so when he wants to make a graffiti product such as 'Writers Bench' it is highly justifyable."

 

> Absolutely. What Wane is doing is definitely justified. He's put in sweat and tears and continues to do so after all these years. His company is for writers, by writers. And to reiterate, companies like that will survive long after the trend is dead. I've never heard of 123Klan so I can't speak out on them. But in the two times I've walked in to a Mr. Rags shop and saw the crap on Display there, it's easily obvious to someone who knows what's up what is being produced by real writers. I saw Tribal up in the same shop next to some other no-name company and the differences in style were completely obvious. The problem with shops like Mr. Rags is the ability to reach everyone. Even those who have no clue about what it is to suffer as a writer from the ground, up. Then again, any monkey can walk into a specialty shop and buy caps to do his shitty tags for the first time. It's an example of not being able to control what's beyond your means.

 

" Yes the aesthetics of graffiti will continue to expand outside of the more traditional mediums but people (especialy writers) need to understand that once it has been taken outside of an illegal context it disregaurds Its Context and Comment, the 2 INgredients that make any Illegal ingredients a true form of art. Once these 2 ingredients have been removed it leaves graffiti as simply a stlye ,and although a refined style, it is weakend by that lack of ideoligy that is present with anygraffiti done on an illegal surface. "

 

> Hmmmm... I'm not sure I can touch on that paragraph, but I'll try. I see what you're saying but isn't that kinda far fetched? It's as if you're saying that a few can bring down the whole. And I don't think that will ever happen. You'll always have purists. No matter what artform you're engaging in. Grey and Amaze are fine examples. And when you have purists of their level you have up and coming writers who want to "be down" with that style. Same with the largely popular trend right now to be an all out bomber. (Just as it was a trend in the early 90's to do massive full color production legal walls) There will always be writers, such as yourself who want to keep the 'language' alive. It's important to them. And dude, (Yea, I said dude) I'm 100% all for that.

 

I'm guessing that Sneak is from the UK, only because of his chosen words to describe characters. Pikey and rudeboy. (Though, I always thought a rudeboy had something to do with Mods.) I think in Europe and elsehwere outside of North America, the majority of writers tend to be very much involved in the hip-hop culture. Whereas here, it's mostly nerds, skaters and alcoholics. Anyway, from my experiences in Europe I think the tolerance for 'Graffiti' fashions is much higher than it is here. Maybe it's due to the high aesthetics placed upon each item and the details taken into account. I don't really know. But for the most part, I've always liked what I've seen.

 

Like the Hixsept stuff posted earlier. Never seen any of that till now. But the attention to detail and placement, much like a writer would consider when out painting, is what makes the item interesting to me. Is this a company of writers making clothing for writers?

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