bodice_ripper Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by mapo returns nice job completely avoiding my counter-argument. give me a list of bands you like, i bet theyre all shit. Oh, you debate GOD you........:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destroya Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by the_gooch if i pay for a cd, upload it to my computer, then decide to "share" it with whome ever FOR FREE. how is that stealing? the idea is that everyone who wants to listen to it should buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwibxonex Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 ive been here 4 weeks and i have 1,496 mp3,s and when i get back home ill have well over 5,000 waiting for me, come get me muttthhafuckiizzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 the RIAA/mafia can suck my crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mapo returns Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Don't Panic Go back to the army with your psuedo-intellecual gibberish. Oh, that's right......I must have forgot, you're a pussy. But..........I thought we were pussies, because we aren't dumb enough to go steal a lexus. Damn, man, now you've got me all confused with your intelligent debating. So we share music, what is the big fucking deal? It's out there for us to use and distribute. Why don't radios get shut down? I can just as easily record a song off the radio, all it takes is a little extra time for it to surface in the rotation. Fuck the RIAA. They brought this onto themselves. yeah im a pussy because i got out of the army. i had to stand up for myself and fight to get out. i fully expected to be sent to RCF (the military version of jail) for that refusing orders, but I did it anyway. not to mention i was already 8 weeks deep into basic training and the hardest shit is the first 3 weeks. besides, its a helluva lot harder to get out than it is to graduate basic training. just look at the ratio of graduates vs non-graduates for the proof. i dont fucking care if you 'share' music. i do it myself. go out and share everything you fucking own. share naked pics of your fucking sister for all i fucking care. that isnt the point. im just saying you should recognize it as theft. which it is. no, you cant 'just as easily' record a song off the radio. recording songs off the radio is a pain in the ass..dling off kazaa is easy. although i see your point. but the quality isnt the same, and that was a song the record label decided to release. that doesnt grant you the right to own the cd. for example, i could record the sopranos on tv. however, that doesnt not entitle me to go to best buy and steal the first season on dvd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mapo returns Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by bodice_ripper Oh, you debate GOD you........:rolleyes: that would be me. go wave at someone..and then watch your upper-arm fat flap around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mapo returns Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by JohnnyHorton and another person's agenda is your business since... ? since they posted it on here. if you come into a public place, to read public opinions, you have to expect to see things you don't agree with mapo... exactly. that goes for people i disagree with too, right? its like you said - in your opinion tupac isn't mindless pop drivel which seems to populate air frequencies these days ... and its like my homie dazzle said - in his opinion its criminal to be charging $30 for a plastic disk that costs them $0.50 to make and a few extra dollars to market... ok, although youre comparing apples and oranges. in other words, its ALWAYS a matter of opinion and an opinion ain't right no matter where it comes from, ever... well that depends on what you mean by 'right'. if you mean that because one person believes something - that doesnt make it absolute truth, then yes, thats true. you sure you're into your twenties and not your teens? even people with the most basic grasp on common sense should be able to pick something like this out... i have more than a 'basic grasp' on common sense. thanks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-hetero Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by ink Lunatic Maybe when teachers are paid more than musicians I'll start paying for a CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 im sorry, but none of ya'll have touched mapo. i don't see how lack of sympathy= not stealing. if there wasn't a market for the music, there wouldn't be a problem. the only possible argument i see against it is that music isn't tangible, and hence cant' be stealing... which is an argument against any sort of copyright. if you decide not to care that it's stealing, that's one thing, but people seem to be arguing "i dont care" against it. now, if you'll excuse me, i have to finish d/ling some kool g rap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 and as far as the excessiveness.. im not too sure on the punshments, but i dont really see it as any worse than if someone got busted for shoplifting from a music store, only now it's like shoplifting in addition to piracy. however, that entire destroying the computer of the downloader is rediculoid. and it does seem odd that more people are downloading than voted, and i think the role of government should be to account for this and not fight against it. but that would be unamerican, and the industry has lots of lobbying money. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoink Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 99 percent of the mp 3's I have I either went out and bought their cd, or allready had it. I support musicians and artists that I deem worthy of supporting, Fuck the RIAA Page Two Styles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by bodice_ripper pfft. I am just BRIMMING OVER with sympathy for the music industry. those people have put every available resource into pushing lightweight, forgettable, disposable music on the market, and then are shocked to find that people veiw music as disposable and without (financial) worth? Fuck Them. I hope this brings down the music industry, and we are forced to listen to music made by friends and locally. Well, I liked you in the beginning, and then you got super righteous on me, and I've always thought you sucked since then... but now I have another reason to dislike you... in fact... FUCK YOU! You're not 'fucking the 'music industry' when you steal music... you're fucking me... and thousands like me... People who have put their heart into songs that have luckily been recorded and become popular. I get 17 cents a radio play, and revenue from 3 albums, 37cents for 2 and 52 cents for another... And that's money I have relied, RELIED upon for several years... by using Kazaa and similar programs, you're not sticking it to the MULTI_BILLION DOLLAR A MONTH 'record industry'... YOU'RE FUCKING SONGWRITERS AND STUDIO MUSICIANS AND ALBUM TECHNICIANS AND EVERY 'LITTLE GUY' IN THE WHOLE FUCKING MUSIC UNIVERSE!!! Who do you think gets paid first when a record becomes a hit? When the money isn't there, who do you think gets financially fucked? TAKE YOUR SELF SERVING BULLSHIT VIEW ON THE "MUSIC INDUSTRY" AND FIST IT UP YOUR GIRLIES ASS AT SOME GAY PRIDE RALLY... I don't tell you how to lick pussy, don't tell me how to 'take it like a man' AND THE REST OF YOU FUCKERS!!!!! You like the music so much that you want to have it before your friends and play it for people but paying for it NO WAY! PUSSY! If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 i hope i get int rouble for sharing porn and jenna jameson comes to my house to "arrest" me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StIdesChurch Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 see i download a fuckload but i also buy a shitload of cds. any group that i am impressed with from my downloads ill buy their cd. i listen to a lot of independent groups that i never would have heard of if it wasnt for kazaa and other download programs. so i mean, groups that i never would have heard of are getting money from me when i buy their cds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Smart hahahahahahah SERVED ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by StIdesChurch so i mean, groups that i never would have heard of are getting money from me when i buy their cds. Actually, I agree... I think there are great opportunities out there from this technology but... I think it should be 'sourced'... in that, I think that '"low-res" versions of songs (say mono and 8bit) should be freely distributable but... Actually, another analogy... I would like to see free internet songs be like a demo version of a program, gotta buy the real to get the full version... I'm all about the test drive but... Seriously... the way history has generally worked is that, 'a man can be judged by his achievements, contributions or ability to entertain'... and now 'entertainment' has become public property or something... like you could all write this stuff yourself. ACTUALLY... I doubt that more than 4 or you around here could write a 'Britney Spears' song or a 'Justin Timberlake' song, and youcan say those songs suck as much as you want (and I agree) but... those songs make MILLIONS of dollars, and the albums make billions and then come the Ad Revenue tie ins... so yeah, it's a GREAT idea to burn songs from all your favorite 'underground' bands because who are they to expect/pray-for support from other common people... If they were 'poor' they wouldn't have a record contract right?!? (Basically the same as being an entry level construction worker but lower pay, and less regular) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHorton Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Mapo, you missed the point of my post.... My point was ... do you really care that much? Does what other people do piss you off that much? I know I compared apples and oranges, that was the point... Anyways... just let it go... who cares what other people do that much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StIdesChurch Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 SMART: " Actually, another analogy... I would like to see free internet songs be like a demo version of a program, gotta buy the real to get the full version... I'm all about the test drive but..." a bunch of groups do that. they put out the mp3 of the song and then have some shit on the track during the chorus or whatever saying "Promotional copy only" or "Go buy or cd" and shit like that right in the middle of the song. its mad annoying, but i guess it serves its purpose. " so yeah, it's a GREAT idea to burn songs from all your favorite 'underground' bands because who are they to expect/pray-for support from other common people... If they were 'poor' they wouldn't have a record contract right?!? " was this directed at me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOOGLE? Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 ......nevermind... if you do you do, you dont you dont. people steal everyday and dont realize it. intentions are always thought to be the best through your own eyes. music is music is music freedom is only in the mind cash rules everything around me/cream get the money/dolla dolla bill yall. free or $13.00-$20.00 for a cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodice_ripper Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Smart Well, I liked you in the beginning, and then you got super righteous on me, and I've always thought you sucked since then... but now I have another reason to dislike you... in fact... FUCK YOU! You're not 'fucking the 'music industry' when you steal music... you're fucking me... and thousands like me... People who have put their heart into songs that have luckily been recorded and become popular. I get 17 cents a radio play, and revenue from 3 albums, 37cents for 2 and 52 cents for another... And that's money I have relied, RELIED upon for several years... by using Kazaa and similar programs, you're not sticking it to the MULTI_BILLION DOLLAR A MONTH 'record industry'... YOU'RE FUCKING SONGWRITERS AND STUDIO MUSICIANS AND ALBUM TECHNICIANS AND EVERY 'LITTLE GUY' IN THE WHOLE FUCKING MUSIC UNIVERSE!!! Who do you think gets paid first when a record becomes a hit? When the money isn't there, who do you think gets financially fucked? TAKE YOUR SELF SERVING BULLSHIT VIEW ON THE "MUSIC INDUSTRY" AND FIST IT UP YOUR GIRLIES ASS AT SOME GAY PRIDE RALLY... I don't tell you how to lick pussy, don't tell me how to 'take it like a man' AND THE REST OF YOU FUCKERS!!!!! You like the music so much that you want to have it before your friends and play it for people but paying for it NO WAY! PUSSY! If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem! dragging the "gay" tthing into it only weakens whatever argument you are trying to make, and you know it. My downloading music insn't fucking over smaller/ upcoming bands, but record companies pouring resources into whichever band they think will be a good cash cow is. so fuck them. I can't help but notice that I amn't the only one expressing this view...but clearly i was the only one you could net-yell abuse at for being gay. The music industry is a creative blackhole. i hope it collapses. anything i can do (even if it probably won't work) to speed it up s a good thing as far as I am concerned. None of the "points" (cough insults cough) so cogently made here have moved me one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Europe Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 First it was the dot-com'ers that crashed. I hope the music-industry is next. I got no love for them. I mean just the name of them, MUSIC (something creative and enjoyable) and INDUSTRY (mass produced shit). They got no love for me or musiclovers in general, they got love for the fucking dollar. So screw them all and lets hope they crash and something better rises from the ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.yuck Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 but if the music industry crashes...whe...where will i get any new ricky martin songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by bodice_ripper dragging the "gay" tthing into it only weakens whatever argument you are trying to make, and you know it. Whatever, your argument that you aren't hurting anybody but the 'record companies' smacks of self-entitlement and borderline retardedness... I steal people's mortgage checks from the mail because the bank sucks! I steal cars because Ford wastes so much money promoting the Escort! I steal insulin from diabetics because the pharmaceutical companies suck! I steal library books because the publishing companies suck! None of you are hurting the 'Music industry' anymore than I'm hurting the 'construction industry' by buning down people's houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest -MOE LESTER- Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 mad magazine said it best in its 50 worst things about music "RECORDING INDUSTRIES WHO CHARGE 18$ FOR A CD THAT COST 75 CENTS TO MAKE, THEN GO TO CONGRESS AND COMPLAIN THAT NAPSTER IS STEALING" LIKE THOSE OVERPAID MUSICIANS REALLY NEED ANOTHER BENZ OR CRACK MONEY....FUCK THAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 this might interest some of you..or not, but it's worth a read i think: http://www.irdial.com/free_and_easy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by -MOE LESTER- mad magazine said it best in its 50 worst things about music "RECORDING INDUSTRIES WHO CHARGE 18$ FOR A CD THAT COST 75 CENTS TO MAKE, THEN GO TO CONGRESS AND COMPLAIN THAT NAPSTER IS STEALING" LIKE THOSE OVERPAID MUSICIANS REALLY NEED ANOTHER BENZ OR CRACK MONEY....FUCK THAT! Well, 1st off, I DO need another Benz... Mine is '75 4 cylinder with no a/c... And, you're right, it only takes 75 cents to produce a cd... You might think this sounds cheap but you're probably thinking about all the composition and studio time and production costs and distribution costs and printing. Fortunately all that stuff happens in a vacuum (from what I understand we're to be karmically recompensed at the moment of death), so that's it, bottomline: 75cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by StIdesChurch see i download a fuckload but i also buy a shitload of cds. any group that i am impressed with from my downloads ill buy their cd. i listen to a lot of independent groups that i never would have heard of if it wasnt for kazaa and other download programs. so i mean, groups that i never would have heard of are getting money from me when i buy their cds. if it wasn't for Napster, I'd be clueless to a lot of things. I download a lot of music, but I buy a lot, too. Nothing beats being able to hear an album before you cop it. Plus, it's a hell of a lot easier to make a mix cd with mp3s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Browner's link... just some surface level critique of that link... "It is an anarchistic grass-roots, but high-tech, system of spreading music" ^ok, that's just a bunch of buzzwords designed to obfuscate... but... "The above definition of Free implies that any tangible object cannot be made free. However, something that can be copied arbitrarily many times, like music, should be set free. When we say music, we mean the expression of ideas (in the form of a musical composition or a sound recording) on some medium, and not the medium itself. Thus you have the freedom to make a copy of a CD we've released, the freedom to download soundfiles of songs we've released from our servers on the Internet, the freedom to cover or improve upon a song we've released, as long as you do not profit from that copy or improvement." OK, "something that can be copied arbitrarily many times, like music, should be set free"... It can't be copied arbitrarily UNTIL AFTER it has been created. Further, the idea that a person 'trading' music doesn't profit is utterly stunted. Many of you have already said that you preview albums and songs that you decide wether to buy or not, there is your profit... You can spend money on stuff you like and not waste money on things you don't. And I'm ignoring the basic 'quality of life' issue that is the very reason humans enjoy(or profit spiritually from) music in the first place. I don't "profit" from eating an apple except it tastes good and sustains my life processes. It's againts the law to steal apples too... If you want free apples, plant a tree, if you want free music, make it yourself. "Music is a creative process. Today, when a musician publishes music, i.e., exposes it to the outside world, only a privileged set of individuals are able to use the music as they please. However, the artist has drawn from the creativity of many other musicians and there is an existential responsibility placed upon them to give this back unconditionally, so creativity is fostered among people. As a dissenting opinion in the Vanna White vs. Samsung case [2], Judge Kozinski writes: “All creators draw in part on the work of those who came before, referring to it, building on it, poking fun at it; we call this creativity, not piracy.”" Right, Pablo Picasso and Salvador Dali never asked for a cent, freely distributing paintings like some sort of artistic Johnny Appleseed. Living off the land and painting with twigs and berries... "First, limiting your creativity to specific audiences, especially based on monetary reasons, is shirking existential responsibility and destructive to society as a whole." ...sure it is... "Second, it's fair that people pay for music only if they like it after listening to it first" Uh... NO, I don't get to pay AFTER the movie or I'd be at least 7 bucks richer (Night at the Roxbury). ANYWAY, I think that somebody put alot of time, and I'm sure thought, into that article but it is pretty much rife with bullshit in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by BROWNer this might interest some of you..or not, but it's worth a read i think first of all smart, good for you for actually reading that. secondly, the ideas put forth are alternatives to the problem and the incessant bickering; discourse. so far all i see in this thread are b&w sides. you're either for the destruction of major label corps and the music industry, or you're not..but there's little in between. copyright issues are fucking hugely complex. obviously alot more ideas need to be aired, no? i'm not gonna parse out your statements smart, but due to the complexity of it, some of your points and analogies are also rife with probs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 well Browner... I wasn't critiquing YOU, it was the article... I wondered if you'd feel like that and considered 'thanking you for sharing' Basically, it breaks down like this... I'm all for discourse, I don't like Bodice, just because I insult her doesn't mean I'm mad at the world (or lesbians for that matter).... carry-on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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