Poop Man Bob Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 *Note this post was taken in its entirety from here. "Free speech zones" -- essentially cop-surrounded holding pens for anyone who cares enough to speak but isn't called on by our masters -- are now commonly employed at political events, placed far out of sight and closely monitored by the authorities, lest any actual democracy occur. By definition, such enclosures make the rest of any such important gathering a non-free-speech zone. Protest that no one can see or hear is meaningless. (Just try to imagine the Civil Rights movement or Martin Luther King's speech outside the UN in an era of "free speech zones.") This cannot by any conceivable argument be the purpose of the First Amendment. Horrifying enough, right? But at least in 2000 you weren't prosecuted for federal offenses merely for speaking your mind. You got a dirty look. Maybe, in a few cases, you spent a few nights in jail or even caught a rubber bullet or two. All plenty objectionable enough. But you didn't get charged with a federal fucking offense. That has changed. Read this Economist story. Last October, a longtime activist named Brett Bursey held up a held a "No War For Oil" sign while waiting for Bush's arrival at the Columbia, SC airport. He was arrested for trespassing. Bursey reportedly held up his sign in the midst of a number of Bush supporters, who were allowed to speak their minds (such as they are) freely. They weren't arrested. Bursey was required to remain in the "free speech zone" -- half a mile away -- simply because he disagreed. So freedom of assembly and speech are dependent on your opinions -- meaning they aren't rights at all. And so Bursey was hauled away, even though no human being alive argues that Bursey was threatening or endangering anyone in any way. This is, quite explicitly, the criminalization of public opposition. And now (probably because this took place in a conservative jurisdiction where the case will be heard by a judge, not a jury -- giving the Bush/Ashcroft junta optimum chances at setting a chilling precedent) -- Bursey faces federal charges (and up to six months imprisonment and $5K in fines) under an obscure law, not previously applied this way, giving the Secret Service authority over presidential-visit areas. (Incidentally, the prosecutor is Strom Thurmond, Jr., son of the racist Senator who once ran for president with the slogan "Segregation Forever.") If a guilty verdict gets upheld through the courts (I think hell will be raised first, but who knows), then -- seriously, this is the logical consequence, the line being drawn here -- anyone protesting Bush within his sight (if the Secret Service so chooses) could be imprisoned on federal charges for doing so outside whatever arbitrary zone they're supposed to be in. And this is America? Unfreakinbelievable. You sometimes hear right-wing puffery about breathing deeply the sweet air of freedom. The Bush administration is a pillow, held firmly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 recently in an affluent neighborhood around my way, a college professor noticed several police occupied with pulling over drivers who were not using their seatbelts...that's all they were doing wrong the professor noted, to the police, what an incredible waste of time and resources that was in this city, the most dangerous, most violent in the u.s... the police arrested him he was taken downtown to central booking and processed with 'impeding a police investigation', i believe..he spent a hald a day in jail this is part of what is a disturbing trend in our country: the erosion of our civil liberties, the destruction of our freedom, and the creation of a police state in this country it's sad..no one has yet even responded to this thread.. does anyone care about this shit? or are we gonna be left with a country full of lethargic know-nothings while all the decent people flee to canada and europe ??? anyone?? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old*824 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 and the really fucked up thing,,,,,is thats nothing compared to what ashcroft hitler got goin on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveboxcars Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOUM Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by !@#$% recently in an affluent neighborhood around my way, a college professor noticed several police occupied with pulling over drivers who were not using their seatbelts...that's all they were doing wrong the professor noted, to the police, what an incredible waste of time and resources that was in this city, the most dangerous, most violent in the u.s... the police arrested him he was taken downtown to central booking and processed with 'impeding a police investigation', i believe..he spent a hald a day in jail this is part of what is a disturbing trend in our country: the erosion of our civil liberties, the destruction of our freedom, and the creation of a police state in this country it's sad..no one has yet even responded to this thread.. does anyone care about this shit? or are we gonna be left with a country full of lethargic know-nothings while all the decent people flee to canada and europe ??? anyone?? ... not to be negative but if he was going about his biz instead of watching what the cops were doing then he would not of gotten' what he got..if your gonna have the right to free speech then when are you going to limit it..there not just gonna let you run around cussin at the president and yelling at who ever when ever..be real half these "law makers" don't even belive in half the shit they legalize..but yet still were led to belive its fredom of speech..notice they didn't say what he did they just booked him for "impeding a police investigation"..speech could be as free as it wants there just gonna find another way to take you down (just like the flag burning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumPuncher Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 the democratic system is was set up with 'checks and balances'. Once there is no longer any accountability or a balance of power in the higher political offices or even the cops on the beat, it will be then end of democracy. There was recently a child slaying in my city. The police canvased the area around the child's home taking dna snample from neighbours. You didn't have to do the swab if you didn't want to, but that ment that the police would root though your trash and find dna anyways. I think that that's a terrible way to get evidence. Even if you say 'No. Those are my Private genetics' they can go and break you constitutional rights to 'find' evidence. and my conservative co-worker believes that it's okay for the cops to 'take' you dna even if you didn't offer because it speeds up the investigation and takes less tax resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Kilo7- the democratic system is was set up with 'checks and balances'. Once there is no longer any accountability or a balance of power in the higher political offices or even the cops on the beat, it will be then end of democracy. There was recently a child slaying in my city. The police canvased the area around the child's home taking dna snample from neighbours. You didn't have to do the swab if you didn't want to, but that ment that the police would root though your trash and find dna anyways. I think that that's a terrible way to get evidence. Even if you say 'No. Those are my Private genetics' they can go and break you constitutional rights to 'find' evidence. and my conservative co-worker believes that it's okay for the cops to 'take' you dna even if you didn't offer because it speeds up the investigation and takes less tax resources. in the united states, when you put your garbage out to the curb, anyone can root through it legally. you should take your trash and put it in the garage untill the garbage people come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 What the fuck? "Free Speech zones"? Who comes up with this shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Don't Panic What the fuck? "Free Speech zones"? Who comes up with this shit? i think it's supposed to be the equivalent of an information kiosk. but yeah... freedom is overrated. "when you sacrifice your freedom for security, you end up w/ neither" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadawhat Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 excuse me, sir, can you point me the way to where i can say, 'fuck this bullshit!'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl junkie Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by ARCEL in the united states, when you put your garbage out to the curb, anyone can root through it legally. you should take your trash and put it in the garage untill the garbage people come actually, once your cans are set at the curb, it's contents become the property of your city's waste disposal company... that company, however, can then allow police access to it... trust me, i've actually been charged and "arrested and released" because of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallix Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 http://www.ehistory.com/wwii/interactive/images/hitler.jpg'> BOW TO YOUR MASTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by vinyl junkie actually, once your cans are set at the curb, it's contents become the property of your city's waste disposal company... that company, however, can then allow police access to it... trust me, i've actually been charged and "arrested and released" because of this... oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Loser Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 no way on hell I'm reading all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallix Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by vinyl junkie actually, once your cans are set at the curb, it's contents become the property of your city's waste disposal company... that company, however, can then allow police access to it... trust me, i've actually been charged and "arrested and released" because of this... charged with what , if i may ask? be general if you don't wanna be specific..or email me =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KING BLING Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Poop Man Bob under an obscure law, not previously applied this way, giving the Secret Service authority over presidential-visit areas. anyone ever heard of the SS or the Gestapo? This is not as severe but Jesus it could be an ugly step in the wrong direction...The Waffen SS which was Hitlers personal protection unit turned into a special forces army, notibly given charge of the death camps. The Gestapo the internal police of the German state (similar to if the CIA was to start *cough*intervening heavily here) which began as a a group meant to uphold laws and control decent on a national level and in time was given absolute availability to any place in German power for any reason. The Nazi's and their infrastructure was not born over night, it happened slowly. Additionally they gain their power through fear of Jews and the economic issues attributable to a heavy burden plaqced on them by the allies in World War one.... If you bothered to read this, can you see the similarities? I thaught it was interesting, I'm not neccesarily a doom sayer..... http://www.wakeupmag.co.uk/images/CIAWESTthree.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$360 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by ARCEL canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poop Man Bob Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 KING BLING Yep. There are similarities. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAMBOOZLED Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by ARCEL you should take your trash and put it in the garage untill the garbage people come Keeping your trash inside. THAT'S UNAMERICAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I really dont know what to say about that shit...i'm not living your reality therefore i cant really have a say on actual facts...the sum of the whole deal is the death of democracy alright...but the start of democracy is when people stop being chill cause they think they can do whatever they want and realise that they cant...The 'democracy' standard in the US, and many other countries, is way overated....it only takes a snap to realise were your true freedom stops..and just how random and oxymorous(?) the laws that succeed that are...Free Speach Zones are like villages for junkies..go die somewhere we cant see you bitch...its the new superconservative ideology that poped out of the feeling that 80% of the citizens adopt "dont call me a nazi but leave me the fuck alone"....this is out of subject but it gives some sort of perspective....The US passed an agreement with numerous european countries that more or less sais that all american citizens that commit a 'crime/illegal action' in the said countries soil will be shipped back to US for trial and not be trialed in the country that they operated/ under their law system. What that means is that if you fuck up 'american' being a spy of any kind or operating in favor of american interests you'll go home and get away with a slap on the wrists...if not...you can be judged with american laws that in most cases are harder than european...... all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rental Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by YG Blood no way on hell I'm reading all that can someone point me towards the higher intellegence area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One_in_Ten Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by NOUM not to be negative but if he was going about his biz instead of watching what the cops were doing then he would not of gotten' what he got..if your gonna have the right to free speech then when are you going to limit it..there not just gonna let you run around cussin at the president and yelling at who ever when ever..be real half these "law makers" don't even belive in half the shit they legalize..but yet still were led to belive its fredom of speech..notice they didn't say what he did they just booked him for "impeding a police investigation"..speech could be as free as it wants there just gonna find another way to take you down (just like the flag burning) your an idiot. firstly no one mention cursing or screaming at the pres. Police are PUBIC ( i mean public) servants they serve and protect us (theoretically anywhite/ way) This teacher has the right to say any respectfull thing to the officers he chooses, from directions to opinions of how there doing: be it good or BAD. the sad fact is move police are dumb as bricks and do not have good people skills. Thus being scolded by Joe prof chalanges the power they, as piggies, feel they need to have over us citizens. As we embark on Nation building abroad, bush is passing tax laws tha thelp the top 15% of us ( probably not US but some form of THEM). States are lossing millions in frederal revenue, and are thus laying off police firemens, and slashing public ( thats us) education. for a country ready to cross oceans and deserts to protect Homeland security they wont cross the street to help its own people. I NEED HEALTH CARE LIKE YESTERDAY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some pittsburgh flavor Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 http://www.wakeupmag.co.uk/images/CIAWESTthree.jpg'>->http://www.metalboerse.de/shop/picspatches/kissshapelogousa.jpg'>? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettiecat Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 What blows my mind is that these people that create the laws and enforce them, the people who run our country etc its not like they are super aliens from another planet these are the people who theoretically grew up next door....how can they be so closed minded? Anyone ever read about the psych experiment done to help explain why the people of Germany ended up supporting the nazis like they did? I'm drawing a blank on the name of it. But basically they had people thinking they were helping out "important" "authority" figures by testing a group of people and shocking them if they go the answer wrong. Unknown to them the people they were "shocking" were just actors. Every time they got one wrong teh voltage was increased, to the point where these actors were screaming in pain and pretending to die. The majority of the people shocked them to that level if they increased at small intervals and the authority figure told them it was for the "good" of the whole group. Some fucked up shit. Makes me wonder what I'm being conditioned to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rental Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 weeeeak! "Free speech zones"=weeeeeak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TEARZ Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Tesseract Free Speach Zones are like villages for junkies..go die somewhere we cant see you bitch... free speech ghettoes. slums. projects. really that's all we have left if you think about it. there is no real "free speech" (that allows for any dissent) on any major media channel, be it radio, tv, newspapers, magazines. any chance for it and "accidents" or backlash occurs; donahue is kicked off msnbc, the times reporter defending free speech is called a terrorist, chomsky and mcgruder are mysteriously cut off "due to technical difficulties." dissent is relegated to small publications, small radio, no tv, and city walls. this administration is so flagrant now that they'll put you in the dissent pen, and if you resist you get the book thrown at you. and that is of course simply theatre of power- show how much the big bad bush machine means business. and it's funny how much interest there is in eradicating anti-bush propaganda. i recently did an anti-bush series of stickers in a small city in america. i have obvious tags and stickers still running from like 97. ALL my anti-bush shit was gone in a day. i've been following this dude's case a little bit, and the criminalization of dissent is extremely troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TEARZ Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Kettiecat Some fucked up shit. Makes me wonder what I'm being conditioned to do... like believe that affirmative action is racist... you're working the bill o'reilly spin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TEARZ Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 just to add to the depressing shit more people voted for the winner of american idol than in the 2000 election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3N53one Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 does not suprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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