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Flaws of America's Prison System


ÀEL GRINGO?

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Prison sentences do not accomplish the intended objective

 

The idea that putting people behind bars for a period of time will change their unacceptable behavior (whether it's using drugs, selling drugs, robbing, stealing or whatever) doesn't work very well. Since a short sentence of a couple of years isn't enough to deter someone from doing something like selling crack, the idea was "increase the sentence--then these assholes will get the message and stop violating the rules of society." So they doubled, tripled etc. the sentence. Still didn't work. They made narcotics trafficking a capital offense in some cases. That didn't work either.

 

Truthfully, I think they are stumped. The U.S. now has more people in prison than any other country on earth. We have horrible, violent prisons, much more violent than some Third World countries, and the prospect of winding up there still doesn't seem to deter people from committing crimes and breaking the law.

 

I don't know. What course of action do you think will work? Our society is being destroyed by the misbehavior of people who have absolutely no faith or hope in the future. We live in a culture of despair. Personally, I think that many of the people in the United States simply lack the desire and belief that they can be normal, regular, free people. It's like "Baaa, Baaa, please lock me up and tell me what to do--I can't make positive decisions for myself---I need someone to take care of me. Life is so baaaad---give me drugs and alcohol so I won't have to be responsible for myself. I can't learn, I can't work, I don't think being honest is worth it. I'm just a big baaaaby that needs to be cared for."

 

That's what prisons are---a big baby-sitting service for adults. They are child-like adolescents in an adult's body. It's sad. The worst part is even though the government spends billions on locking them up, they still don't get the message, and most of them are released again, back out here among the rest of us, where we have to deal with their stupid crimes and misbehavior until they get caught again and returned to prison.

 

All the socio-political claptrap^^^ in the world won't change the fact that criminals won't behave and will not follow the laws of society. It's easy as shit to completely avoid going to prison. Just do not break the law. Simple.

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Originally posted by ¿EL GRINGO?

Do you have a problem with community college? Its fuckin free and thats probably where I'll end up going, that doesnt mean I'm not educated, that means that I dont feel the need to spend 10 - 30 thousand dollars a year on an education that I could get for much less.

 

 

community college isnt free.

who told you that?

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Re: Prison sentences do not accomplish the intended objective

 

KaBaR is right.

 

Theres not a clear-cut answer if prisons are mainly a way to keep criminals out of society, or if it is punishment. I guess its both.

 

I agree with KaBaR about alot of inmates are just people who subconsciously dont want the responsibilities of life. I think alot of them would benefit from going to the military, since in the military youre basically told what to do and are taken care of. Its too bad the military has moved into a more professional organization which wont take people with criminal backgrounds, but thats a whole different story.

 

Alot of their problems stems from the breakdown of the family, where discipline used to be instilled into kids at a young age, most kids grow up without parents around and are raised by a tv screen. They dont like structure and responsibility.

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Re: Re: Prison sentences do not accomplish the intended objective

 

Originally posted by mapo returns

Alot of their problems stems from the breakdown of the family, where discipline used to be instilled into kids at a young age, most kids grow up without parents around and are raised by a tv screen. They dont like structure and responsibility.

 

I agree with Kabar too but I also think that a lot of the people who go into prison are taken care of but are never really taught anything except how to be a criminal. I think an alternative to the way things are done now is to actually give prisoners something to live for and be proud of. I think the idea of putting prisoners in the military is a reasonable idea because of the discipline put into it. My friend went to a 6 month boot-camp instead of living in a juvenile center til he was 18 and he came out pretty good although I dont think it helped him much I can see that he's a lot more responsible and smarter than when he went in... The thing about prison is that once you get out, it doesnt matter because all the priveldges and chances you have as a citizen of the country are cut off because you are a criminal offender and are dangerous. So what the hell are you supposed to do when you get out of prison? flip burgers and wash cars for pocket change?

 

 

A little brain food...

 

 

There are 9.9 million White drug users and 2 million African- American users in America.

 

African-Americans make up 12.3% of the population, but 38% of all drug arrests

 

(www.cjcj.org)

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I understand what youre saying but i disagree.

 

Yeah, once you get out of prison and have a record of felonies, nobody will want to hire you. Thats the way it is. Theyre afraid of you, and have reason to be. They cant trust you to handle money - you might steal it. They cant trust you to deal with customers - you might get mad and hit one of them. They cant trust you with a company car - you might not come back with it. Plus no customer wants to go into a place and trust a convicted felon. People dont like convicted felons and will go out of their way to stay away from them, because of that businesses dont want to hire them.

 

But it seems alot of people almost think it is the responsibility of the criminal justice system to reform these people make citizens out of them. Like people just say 'well the prison system took him in, now hes their resposibility, and i expect them to open doors for him when he gets out by providing free education and helping him find a job'. Fuck that.

 

Yeah hes going to make french fries when he gets out of prison. What do you expect? Maybe General Motors will offer him the CEO job? No, General Motors will offer him the job of janitor. To clean the toilets of those who are qualified and resposible.

 

If an ex-con makes it, thats cool. Its possible. Theres nothing better than a citizen making good money the honest way, and paying taxes. Helps this country tremendously. But it is not anybodys responsibility but their own.

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Originally posted by mapo returns

and how do some of you come to the conclusion that there is a good alternative to prison? what would that be? just try to 'reform' everyone?

maybe counsel everyone? maybe give them a free education and find them a job so they can feel proud of themself?

 

Prison doesn't reform shit either. It does nothing but produce smarter more dangerous criminals. Sure you can go in there and get your GED, take angermanagement or drug rehab classes, but these are used as tools to get time off a sentence. I've seen this cycle of people going to prison, coming out smarter quicker and stronger to be the fuckin ultimate criminal doing shit twice as bad then going to jail again, learining more getting bigger and doing even more fucked up shit when they come out. I've been watching this for years. Prison doesn't reform shit.

 

Sure it gets criminals off the street for the meantime but it doesn't fix the problem either.

 

 

edit--> sorry kabar i just posted as soon i read this.

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Originally posted by mr.yuck

Prison doesn't reform shit either. It does nothing but produce smarter more dangerous criminals. Sure you can go in there and get your GED, take angermanagement or drug rehab classes, but these are used as tools to get time off a sentence. I've seen this cycle of people going to prison, coming out smarter quicker and stronger to be the fuckin ultimate criminal doing shit twice as bad then going to jail again, learining more getting bigger and doing even more fucked up shit when they come out. I've been watching this for years. Prison doesn't reform shit.

 

Sure it gets criminals off the street for the meantime but it doesn't fix the problem either.

 

then what the fuck else should we do?

 

why in the fuck do you think the state has a responsibility to these criminals? if thats what you want, go start your own company and give criminals all the high-paying jobs. that will solve the problem as you state it to be. im so sick of these left wing extremists who sympathize with the very worst society has to offer.

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motherfucker......go see if www.ebay.com has a special on proactive thinking upgrades.

 

you fucking need one.

 

shut up fool. or go work for a prison if you cant figure it out.

 

I know to many felons that did to much time and came out went back came out went back and did worse till they either didnt come back or died.

 

think on that with your oreos and milk you sucker.

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Originally posted by ********

 

think on that with your oreos and milk you sucker.

 

hahaha.

 

MAPO

 

for real though. I'm not sympathizing with shit. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion by reading any of my posts. I'm just saying that our prison system doesn't work in the short term or in the long run. As ******* said i have seen people come and go until they either do an unfinishable sentence of 180 years or they die on the streets.

 

A lot of these people were born into families that have parents that are criminals. All they know is crime. They didn't ask to be born into that shit. You are a product of your environment. Once you have been conditioned to live in hell as you called it, why the hell even set people free. Think of how hard it has to be to reconform to 'normal' society when people staring at you might be thinkin about fuckin you in the ass or stabbing you in the showers.

 

The mentallity of these people is fucked up in the worst way. When talkin with one of my buddies i asked him straight up "Why do you keep going to prison?" His response was along the lines of "Man i dont even give a fuck anymore. The cops in this neighborhood know who i am and know when i'm gettin out. They just waitin for the chance to send me back no matter what i do. Prison ain't shit anymore. I have nothing to live for out here. My whole family and childhood friends are in prison."

 

That's gotta be a shitty mentallity to have in life. No hope at all. Why not at least try out a government program to reform or recondition criminals so they can become CEOs of GM. If nothing else it would be a lot more cost effective than simply housing them with other criminals for a number of years at the tax payers expense. Why shouldn't they get a fair break in life when they never had one in the first place?

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I understand that alot of felons are practically born into a hopeless situation. But you cannot blame the state for that.

 

So these ex-cons have a shitty outlook and themselves and life?

Go to a fucking clergy, they even have that in prison.

Go to a psychologist, or read a self-help book.

 

The person has to show the initiative, there is no reason the govt should spend even more tax dollars on some program to help reform a criminal. If he feels shitty about himself..good, hes a fucking criminal. No fucking sympathy.

 

Bill Gates was even arrested at one time. And he turned out just fine without some govt sponsored program.

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Guest TEARZ
Originally posted by mapo returns

I dont think some of you people know the difference between laws and prison.

 

Blaming the prisons because of who gets sent there is like blaming a history book for the holocaust.

 

Some of you people are so fucking stupid.

 

see, i could almost let such stupidity go without malice were it not not for the acerbity of your last post. mapo, you are fucking dumb.

your analogy is completely inapropos, first of all. and secondly, and more importantly, to not see the correlation between building more prisons/having the ones we have now and the desire to fill them completely for profit motive or political purposes (the law- it's mighty capricious in its application isn't it?) is to be blind as a fucking bat. you need to do some critical thinking kid and chill with your righteousness.

-tears, 1500 SAT before recentering, 1 shot, no sleep, no rich kid princeton review or kaplan, that's 2 wrong on the entire test son... (since we're talking SAT scores)

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Originally posted by TEARZ

see, i could almost let such stupidity go without malice were it not not for the acerbity of your last post. mapo, you are fucking dumb.

your analogy is completely inapropos, first of all. and secondly, and more importantly, to not see the correlation between building more prisons/having the ones we have now and the desire to fill them completely for profit motive or political purposes (the law- it's mighty capricious in its application isn't it?) is to be blind as a fucking bat. you need to do some critical thinking kid and chill with your righteousness.

-tears, 1500 SAT before recentering, 1 shot, no sleep, no rich kid princeton review or kaplan, that's 2 wrong on the entire test son... (since we're talking SAT scores)

 

My analogy was right-on. See, what youre leading to is that the whole criminal justice system is one money-making entity. That might be true, there are different things to take into account and I wont get into that now. But I would LOVE for you to show me the connection between how a prison is responsible for the individual people that are sent there. If you want to say that more prisons = higher quota, thats fine. But thats not what Im referring to. I want to know how a prison system selectively decides the people who go there.

 

As far as SAT scores, I did well. I only took them as a junior, never took them as a senior. My verbal was outstanding, my math was lacking.

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Originally posted by mapo returns

But thats not what Im referring to. I want to know how a prison system selectively decides the people who go there.

 

As far as SAT scores, I did well. I only took them as a junior, never took them as a senior. My verbal was outstanding, my math was lacking.

 

Take a look at the statistics I posted earlier... if you want to see alternatives to prison particularly for juvenile offenders, such as the majority of my friends who are going through shit lately; check out www.cjcj.org... filled with all types of articles and statistics.

 

"As far as SAT scores go"... They dont mean shit, I dont mean to dog on the both of you but all the SAT does is have you jump through fucking hoops... analogies? how the fuck can you say that one analogy is better than another? I think verbal section is just fucking ridiculous... but thats just me and my not so hot P.SAT scores talking.

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Gringo, there some good info on the prison idustrial complex if you look for it. I find the cycle of prison financing, and it's economic implications in the central valley quite interesting. Its crazy to learn how victoria's secret and walmart make huge $$ off prisoner made products, then they donate tons of $$ to new stricter laws and politicians who take a conservative hard stance on crime. Then these politicians make new tougher laws to fill up prisons with more workers to make more goods for these companies, and on and on. You know that the only department that not only escaped budget cuts but actually got an increase in funds in California was the dept. of corrections, the prisonguard unions got mad clout. Its sick to know how many people profit off this shit, and even more disgusting that they put their own profits in priority of destroying thousands of lives for a few $$. California is the only state where the parole system actually encourages parolees to go back to prison, I see my father go through that cycle and it's fucked up, even though he's a fool himself. I feel very strong on this issue, and I chose a carreer that goes out and helps kids in the ghetto learn responsibility and tries to encourage development of their self esteem, which I feel is a big factor. I know how it feels to acknowledge that the system does nothing but punish you, and our institutions treat us with malice. Even if this is not true in our institutions, many kids feel this way and become antisocially destructive towards society. Almost a century of prisonculture and reactive action has only shown us that this system does not work unless your a corporate tycoon, or a priveleged elite. An investment in proactive action may not cure all crime, but it sure as hell is time we change the way the system works, cuz it churns out more criminals than reformed citizens. Jail is like a fucken crime school nowadays, and taking away weight sets and cigarettes aint solving shit.

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Mapo, my previous post shows an example of a political cycle that does ensure more people will go to jail, and most of these crimes that theyre tough on are economic crime, selling drugs, theft etc. But youre right about one thing, the system does not out right purposely choose who goes to jail, they just adjust laws and rules to somewhat "guide" various types of people to jail. More importantly, political apathy is what leads kids to crime. There are numerous studied that correlate lack of resources and positive social environments to high incarceration rates. IE, if watts has a crappy school system, theres gonna be a lot more graduates from watts in prison than in Sherman Oaks, which has a wonderful school system. Include other social facilities like parks, playgrounds, nice streets, public spaces, and you got a kid who turns to a violent lifestyle or drug abuse to compensate for underlying depression and lack of self esteem. This is a fact, that is well known and used in the areas of psychology and sociology, not just some bleeding heart opinion. But when it boils down to it, personal responsibility is the ultimate decider of someone's lifestyle choice. But you also have to regard environmental factor which are very important.

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ESAI i feel you are super on point with both of your above posts.

 

its funny. As a kid i used to think that it was almost impossible to end up in prison unless you killed some one. The older i get i just sit back and think of just how easy it would be for me to go to prison for a number of years. I have a record and i spend a lot of time looking over my shoulder even when i'm doing nothing wrong. I think if i ever get arrested again i'll be gone for a while as i will fall off into the repeat offender, just can't get it right, catergory. Although i haven't been arrested in over a year and a half this shit still weighs heavily on my mind. Hoping not to make one wrong step or being caught at the wrong place at the wrong time, and still trying to keep a smile on my face is hard shit. I'm just now starting to get back to a normal life after jumping through courts hoops for the past 4 years.

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Guest ctrl+alt+del
Originally posted by TEARZ

-tears, 1500 SAT before recentering, 1 shot, no sleep, no rich kid princeton review or kaplan, that's 2 wrong on the entire test son... (since we're talking SAT scores)

thats tight, good job man.

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Guest TEARZ

i wish i didn't bring up the sat thing. i don't think it holds any weight all. but i can assure you that 2 wrong, before recentering was a 1500. they scale the test in such a way that 2 wrong is a 1500, 8 wrong might me a 1350, 20 wrong might be an 1100, you dig? in other words, scoring isn't linear for the SAT, or at least it wasn't back in like 94 or so.

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After The Last Time

 

. . . .I got involved in a thread about prison, I swore to myself I wouldn't do it again. And yet---here I am.

 

In my opinion, a lot of the people who are in prison are the mentally ill, the academically unproficient, the people who have never been exposed to adults who obey the law, never been exposed to people who are "successful" at negotiating the maze that modern business society has become. I know a black guy who has lived in the same Fourth Ward neighborhood all his life. He asked me, "Why is it that there are four Vietnamese or Chinese-owned grocery stores in this neighborhood, and all of the owners came here from somewhere else, not even able to speak English, and there is not ONE SINGLE black owned grocery store here?"

You could go through a lot of bullshit about racism and all that, or you can just state the obvious--no black person WANTED to start a grocery store ENOUGH to make it successful.

Why is it that I see black or Latino kids who have failed three and four grades? I don't get it. If my kid failed a grade, I'd put a boot up his ass so far he could taste the laces, and he wouldn't do a fucking thing but study until he started passing. The Latino kid down the block fails, and his parents just don't seem to give a shit. I don't get it, honestly.

 

When people all around you are living a life of crime, it becomes the norm. Instead of going out and making something worthwhile out of their lives, they choose to rip off others. It's as though being a predator has more dignity, to them, than earning an honest living. What I don't understand is all the sniveling and whining about "It's not fair," and "I didn't do nothing," when they get caught. Hey, if you're a criminal, best expect to get FUCKED OVER when the honest citizens finally capture you. Don't bother whining---you knew the law, and chose to break it.

 

Prison doesn't work very well (i.e., they continue to think like little fucking thugs) for these guys. They come out worse than when they went in. It lasts too long, and it's not harsh enough. I bet we could use the Kenya Model, and get better results.

 

Kenya is a poor country. They don't have money for fancy jails and parole officers and all that. When they catch a thief, the local police sergeant has him handcuffed naked to the post in the middle of the village. Then they assemble all the village boys and young men. The sergeant convenes a "police court," reads the charge and the conviction (both by his own authority) and then the corporal carries out the sentence---caning. They usually give them seven to ten "licks," but if the criminal is tough, or if he is defiant, the sergeant orders the corporal to "lay it on with a will" until the miscreant breaks down and starts crying and begging for mercy.

 

Criminals are NOT COOL in Kenya. The boys don't think that the young adult thugs deserve respect. Because when they get caught, they piss on themselves and wail and moan and beg for mercy. The police cane them until they are shrieking and crying like a little bitch.

 

They don't lock them up. They just leave them there, weeping, naked as a jaybird, in humiliation. And the other boys and young men think "What a fucking pussy---no way am I going to break the Law!"

 

Caning is a lot cheaper, and a lot more effective than ten years of FEEDING his sorry bitch ass, and then having him come back out and strut around like a big shot, poisoning the minds of the little kids. Fuck that.

 

But we can't do that in the U.S. It's a lot better to just let people become stupid and refuse to learn to read or write, and then spend their lives locked up because they think they are entitled to rob and steal and sell dope to kids. Right? Not in my book.

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Re: After The Last Time

 

Originally posted by KaBar

. . . .I got involved in a thread about prison, I swore to myself I wouldn't do it again. And yet---here I am.

Criminals are NOT COOL in Kenya. The boys don't think that the young adult thugs deserve respect. Because when they get caught, they piss on themselves and wail and moan and beg for mercy. The police cane them until they are shrieking and crying like a little bitch.

 

They don't lock them up. They just leave them there, weeping, naked as a jaybird, in humiliation. And the other boys and young men think "What a fucking pussy---no way am I going to break the Law!"

 

Caning is a lot cheaper, and a lot more effective than ten years of FEEDING his sorry bitch ass, and then having him come back out and strut around like a big shot, poisoning the minds of the little kids. Fuck that.

 

But we can't do that in the U.S. It's a lot better to just let people become stupid and refuse to learn to read or write, and then spend their lives locked up because they think they are entitled to rob and steal and sell dope to kids. Right? Not in my book.

 

thank you... I was very skeptical of you from what I assumed to be ignorance in your first post... although I stronly agree with what you said I have to retort with the fact that there are a good number of exceptions to just general thugs, thieves, and lowlifes that are in prison. There are a good number of innocent people being mixed up in our prison system and a number of them being executed.

 

http://www.danielfaulkner.com/newsarticles/inquirer/deathsentencelifted/1956720044.jpg'> "remember me?"

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