Guest imported_b0b Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I'm not sure if I ever posted this on 12oz before, but I think of graffiti as an applied art. Sure it is artistic, but the main function of it isn't to be artistic. The art is more a by-product. You are in competition, so you want style to help you stand out. Very rarely will a writer decide they are going out that day to "produce art". It will be more about doing a burner or doing something to get noticed. The intention/motivation of it is important, and in graffiti that intention/motivation isn't genrally about producing artworks. All that said graffiti is very artistic and is producing some great conceptual art. As for innovative I'd like to put forward Os Gemeos with their characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se_FOUR Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 ^^^ cor who got the dictionary out ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niso Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Originally posted by crazeeb0b I'm not sure if I ever posted this on 12oz before, but I think of graffiti as an applied art. Sure it is artistic, but the main function of it isn't to be artistic. The art is more a by-product. You are in competition, so you want style to help you stand out. Very rarely will a writer decide they are going out that day to "produce art". It will be more about doing a burner or doing something to get noticed. The intention/motivation of it is important, and in graffiti that intention/motivation isn't genrally about producing artworks. All that said graffiti is very artistic and is producing some great conceptual art. As for innovative I'd like to put forward Os Gemeos with their characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niso Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 xenz xenz now this is a personal style http://www.fatcap.co.uk/host/files/WAKEFIELD.jpg'> http://www.fatcap.co.uk/host/files/essential.jpg'> http://www.fatcap.co.uk/host/files/008.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von schnabel Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Ikaros http://www.ruskig.com/ULeventSub/uI2.jpg'> http://www.ruskig.com/ULeventSub/uIK3.jpg'> http://www.cazter.com/guests/ikaroz/graffiti/images/ikaroz_9.jpg'> stolen from ruskig.com, caster.com finsta http://dietyl.mine.nu/graffitiovanmolnen/vaggar/513.jpg'> http://dietyl.mine.nu/graffitiovanmolnen co-op by ruskig, lady, tele http://medlem.spray.se/gatans/update2/R%F6da%20sten%20m%E5lningen.JPG'> stolen from gatansbarn.tk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nG Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 fuck yeah. :eek: i think i've mentioned before how much i like ikaros and cazter, and nice one niso for the bristol stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caL Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 how fucking beautiful is that%^^^!#$@$!@#$ :eek: :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I think what Zedz and Delta are, and have been doing with the architectual vibe is absolutely amazing. When kids tell me that I'm on some 'next level' shit I shake my head. They have no idea. And having hung out with both of those guys, knowing how humble they are... truly inspirational. Mentioning Phase2 is a given. It's like saying Peanut Butter is made with peanuts. Dude just went off long before any of us picked up a can. I've seen some photos of some very interesting stuff by Sharp and Delta (Old School NY Delta) that was equally experimental. Yet easily over looked. Futura is always a favorite. He just can't be beat in my book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DREDZ Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I'm definitely feeling those pics. And Delta is fresh as hell! (just for the record) I also dig the stuff that those guys Comodo and Combo do on walls.I found no pics on line though. But the way that they approach styles and walls is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 futura 2000 just a question: what is that everybody finds so interesting about futura 2000? there was a time when i used to consider him one of my favorite graffiti writers, but as time as gone on, i can't see what he has done that has earned him the respect and admiration of worldwide graffiti people. i've honestly seen only 5 futura pieces: the two in Spraycan Art, The two in Subway Art, and the abstract wholecar. I don't find his characters/figurines/graphic design/clothing items cool or interesting or my cup of tea in the least bit. and as I look back, I don't find his pieces to be all that mind-blowing either. so other than those few cool pieces and a nice sorta handstyle, why is he worshiped as some sort of untouchable graf-god? (I really don't see anything overly extrodinary in his work, even though i do like it and feel more akin to it than other styles.) is it just a catchy name? show me some futura that will blow minds that does not include the ones mentioned above or a picture of his tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_b0b Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Originally posted by se_FOUR ^^^ cor who got the dictionary out ; ) Just cos you have trouble tying your shoelaces, dont try and get funny.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik3000 Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Futura is in the pantheon because of that abstract wholecar and because he got to rap on a track by the Clash. He didn't need to do a million wholecars because the one he's known for was about fifteen years ahead of its time, which is freaking light years in graffiti. He was also an older guy than most of the people that made it big in the galleries early on and was therefore able to approach his work with more maturity and refinement than they could. As for the track with the Clash, it's probably the worst track on what's definitely their worst record, but who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nG Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Originally posted by Sonik3000 Futura is in the pantheon because of that abstract wholecar and because he got to rap on a track by the Clash. He didn't need to do a million wholecars because the one he's known for was about fifteen years ahead of its time, which is freaking light years in graffiti. He was also an older guy than most of the people that made it big in the galleries early on and was therefore able to approach his work with more maturity and refinement than they could. As for the track with the Clash, it's probably the worst track on what's definitely their worst record, but who cares. didn't he do three abstract wholecars, independantly of eachother? joe strummer RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O_two Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 has anybody mentioned Vulcan or Lokiss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edika Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Originally posted by O_two has anybody mentioned Vulcan or Lokiss? i like lokiss few years ago he teamed with Mist for productions... 2 great writers. it was fun to see Mist trying to be abstract to fit into Lokiss's style. You can see their work on the great Paris book of 1998 : Kapital i dont know if we can find their production on the web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se_FOUR Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 lokiss in England 89 http://www.aerosolplanet.com/images/GRAFFITI%20WEBSITE/LOKISS%2022L.JPG'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 vulcan http://www.abeloner.com/fiti/vulcangroup.jpg'> im pretty concrete with my understanding that the Futura 2000 thing is just hype. like, I can't see why anyone would want to own one of those figures (or a kaws one for that matter) An abstract whole car is interesting, but i wonder why the same type of a cat who would put down 'innovative styles' thinks that somehow futura is great (i know the answer is because he was in those books.) My days of giving futura props as a master are long over...i like the name, but only in a F.T. Marinetti kind of way. Now here is some innovation beyond years!! http://www.futurism.org.uk/ A new Antonio Sant'Elia collection is online at Futurism.Org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Green Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Antonio Sant'Elia is the man. the futurists in general are just badass facist geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O_two Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Don't believe the hype. Forget the merchandise, the clothing label and the line of action figure accessories, just look at what Futura did and when he did it. When I think of Futura, I think of the 'Break' whole-car, or his section of the 'Shy 147' whole car painted with Kel 139 and Mare in '86. 'The next generation of writers and aerosol expressionists need to have the spotlight to themselves. This is their time, no longer mine.' from Futura's book 'Futura' published 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 don't get me wrong, i like his pieces and signature, but i can't help but feel like i'm missing something... http://www.aerosolplanet.com/images/GRAFFITI%20WEBSITE/LEE%20FUTURA%202L.JPG'> http://www.purple-beats.com/old-school-art/futura-2000.jpg'> http://www.subwayoutlaws.com/Interviews/Futura2000/futuratagcopy2.jpg'> http://www.subwayoutlaws.com/Interviews/Futura2000/futura_01062.jpg'> http://www.subwayoutlaws.com/Interviews/Futura2000/futura2copy_copy.jpgwtext.jpg'> http://www.subwayoutlaws.com/Interviews/Futura2000/FUTURA2000__WALL_1980_copy.jpg'> http://www.subwayoutlaws.com/Interviews/Futura2000/FUTURA_WALL_copy.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 the last two have inverted colors 4 some reason...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik3000 Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Abel, you aren't making sense when you knock the Futch. Does "innovative style" only mean "innovative in 2003" to you? Futura was a huge inspiration to people like Bando and Delta, (peep early Delta's fills if you don't see it) and later to people like Joker. That's just three of the people that he inspired. Sure, he hasn't really done anything too interesting to me (and you, sounds like) in twenty years. But that doesn't take away from the fact that those couple of cars blew the lid off of what graffiti could be, and inspired many of the people that have gone on to redefine graff on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 when i knew very little about graffiti i though he was great, now after having been exposed to scenes and styles from all over the globe I look back and don't feel the same excitement about futura. a common expression i've heard is: ' you wanna see innovative, try looking at futura's stuff.' so i was hoping others in this thread could help me see what makes this person so untouchable and wonderful in terms his influence on them and the graff world, etc. 4 sure in the early 80's this dude was a real innovater, but i started to get a sense that people were dropping the name futura 2000 without ample understanding of his achievents within the graffiti scene. other than some new letters, what did he do? there were indeed other abstract early people...jon156 comes to mind...i felt like some of those people who were jsut using the name, so i decided to ask whomever in this thread would care to respond because i respect the opinions of those in this thread more than in others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabin fever Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 ... I've got to agree with Sonik on this one: you can't just look at Futura in the light of 20 years of "progress" or change or what have you... Even if that abstract wholecar was the only shit he ever did...everyone has seen it, and everyone, well most everyone, was like "Damn..so you can do THAT too, huh?" Like Sonik said: just think of the people who he influenced... innovation isn't necessarily about numbers or longevity, really, I think Futura definitely goes down in the annals just for that one train... anyway... I'd like to see some innovative hands and throws... any takers? Some alert shit should be up in here for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O_two Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 How about a bit of Nosm's 3D stuff...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DripOfAWish Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by O Mei Shan and to me pieces are art, handstyles arent. know what i mean? actually, the elements that go into a good piece are the same elements used in a good tag: balance, flow, proportioning, spacing, etc... you can have the craziest color scheme, dope fill-in, and tightest can control, but your piece isn't shit without those same elements that are used to execute a proper tag. if you have solid foundation in letter structure, you can't help but to have an appreciation for handstyle. even the hugest legal eagles that i know can recognize a dope tag on the street when they see one. This is a huge generalization and i'll stand behind it: people who don't like/appreciate tags, have no letter style of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DREDZ Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Comodo and Combo I dig these kats steez... http://www.mayhemupload.com/images/comodo1.jpg'> Comodo http://www.mayhemupload.com/images/combo1.jpg'> Combo http://www.mayhemupload.com/images/combo2.jpg'> Combo http://www.mayhemupload.com/images/comodo2.jpg'> Comodo ...I stole these from Brain Damage #7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpo Marx Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 http://www.graffiti.org/futura/co13.jpg'> http://www.graffiti.org/futura/co15.jpg'> Futura 2000. Kind of reminds me of the Joker sketch collages. But what the hell do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DREDZ Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 You can see Futuras influence in alot of writers today, because of the basic fact that he was one of the first, if not the first, to break away from outlines. He was more about the design and color and aesthetic. He didn't trap his fill inside of an outline, and alot of kats are following his example. Just the whole unorthodoxness (is that a word) of his style is what influences me and makes him one of my definite favs. p.s. I've posted this link before (and I'm sure most people have already seen it), but just in case someone was unaware peep: www.defumo.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Green Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 i have and always been a greatly influenced by the aethetics and individuality of futuras work. where it ultimately falls short for me is that his narrative never seems to satisfy the caliber as the innovative aesthetic he presents. ultimately i think the kind of work he does as a designer althought progressive into and through the 90's is limited by need for individuality and lack of real graphic design knowhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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