Sammy Hagar Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 elk is amazing. does anyone have any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pilau Hands Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 i wud rather people to reconise me for my style That's another good point. How many people wouldn't know a Joker or a Sento or a Bich for style alone? Before even reading or attempting to read a piece, sometimes you just know what's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
composure Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 somethin' out of Hawaii http://www.fatcap.co.uk/host/files/Anek1.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Hagar Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 ^^ a little too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 more of these? http://www.abeloner.com/fiti/raisetoast.jpg'> what country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 opendminds without openmindedness, graffiti will never progress. If there werent innovators who did things others originally thought were shit, disfunctional or illformed, we'd all be doin the same fills, styles, tags, letterforms as in the 80's. who the fuck wants to see the same shit over and over again?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik3000 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 What has proven to be the most consistently depressing aspect of the graffiti writing culture for me is its complete unwillingness to consider that it operates in a world larger than its own. What this means in simpler terms: it only speaks to itself and doesn't acknowledge that other people are going to have to interact with it. But yeah, ain't graff just for "us?" Get the fuck over it. If all you can say to anyone else is a bend in a letter or a well-made mop, your shit is shallow, and chances are, you are as well. Of course graffiti speaks to "us" louder than it does to others. That's the case with anything that requires a wide knowledge base. Architecture is going to speak more loudly to architects, but we all live in it. If an architect makes work that is only for the people he respects, and not in any way for the people who interact with it on a daily basis, they are truly selfish. Over time, I've come to feel the same way about a lot of graffiti. It makes no effort to branch out of the comfortable, familiar steakhead world of lettered curves and booming spots. If that's all graffiti is to you, fine, but you're a shallow writer. I've met a lot of exceptional writers who have done exceptional work, I've been quite lucky. The quality that they all share, in some capacity, is that they all have a broader picture in their minds, a wider world view, and a sense that what they are doing is bigger than themselves and their scene. This goes for ghetto writers and new breed rich kid art schoolers. I began to work with graffiti because I saw it as the best medium to work with in the public eye. Over time, I have come to feel that it isn't the best medium for public expression, but one of them. There are times when traditional graffiti is purely selfish and speaks to nobody except its own ego. What is ultimately going to be the great test of graffiti in terms of history is whether or not it forms connections and relations with the rest of the world and its arts, cultures, and histories. Good work that stands the test of time is always intellectually grounded in its own traditions and the traditions that spawned it, and it reaches outwards and forwards to the future. From what I've seen of graffiti's reach throughout the world, I'm optimistic that graffiti will prove to be a memorable contribution to our own era. But whether or not graffiti makes it as anything other than a sad, sardonic me-era statement of a closed, cynical youth, is going to take some positive contribution from us all. There's some great work in here, and some crap. I'm pleased that someone thought I was innovative. I'd like to drop in a few last names that I feel are important: Jon 156 Revs Twist Os Gemeos Vitche Herbert Nina Reas Espo Tyke Saber Bates Delta INC Delta (nyc) Joker Loomit Sento You guys all make graff worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themilkman Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 has any one got any oddball pics??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Green Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 semiotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreversteve Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 evolution - in·no·va·tion: 1. The act of innovating; introduction of something new. 2. a new device or process created by study and experimentation. 3. A change effected by innovating; a change in customs; something new, and contrary to established customs, manners, or rites. dont read this. its only my view on this subject. and some rambling... To me graffiti is what you make of it. i allways thought of it as breaking rules, and testiing limits, not caring what people think, and doing what you love. Yes, graffiti is writing on a wall. Once onlysimple scrawls with berry juice, and so on... till the 60s-70's where people began to evole the simple scrawls with colors, arrows, stars, 3d, what ever to make it stand out. why push it? because so many people were doing it, you had to push it... who did the one with the most colors? who did the one with the wildest peice? who did the whole car?..... now that things have been pushed so far, people are trying to push in various other ways... who did the cleanest peice? who had the gall to splatter paint all over their peice? who decided to take their outline and say "fuck it" im not going to do one...ect... today you have to work extremely hard just to stand out. breaking the rules in all new way. thats evolution... Could it be modern pop culture: it funny how popular american culture keeps going through the past decades, "last year it was the 70's, next year its the 80's ect..." in fashion, music, television, art... and now even graff. face it. the 80's are "in". in your face with hight contast art and attitude, ie. reality tv, realness... the "keep graff REAL" attitude. make it what it is, is the "in" thing. so if you want to paint cool graff, and be "in", then break out all your old 90's graff magazines (On The Go, Skills, Can Control ect.) and start to study today, cause in next couple of years, the 90's will be in full effect. with all these new kids getting their 80's styles down, they will be more confident in their painting and begin to get crazyier, its natural, its human, its progression, its innovation, its evolution. what about technology? today we have so many different options... just in spraypaint alone, we have a huge color pallettes, paints that are tough to make drip, transparent paints, metalic paints, glow in the dark paints, spraypaint that is made for graff, and just as many caps for different purposes. we are now able to paint things that never would have been reasonable 30years ago. and computers, with graphics and 3d programs is a whole other storie. i also beleive the current populus of writers today are way more educated than that of past. bringing even more to graf. As the world becomes more connected, it becomes smaller. the internet is a whole new world. now its easy to see the different styles being put down at all ends of the earth. and be inspired by all sorts of things you would have never seen if it werent for the internet. i beleive the internet has greatly changed the way graff is. before the only graff you would see, was that which was done in your town, you have the towns writers, inspiring the towns writers, and it would evolve into almost a towns style, today, the towns writers can be inspired by all the graff the world has to offer. i can catch the new street work in sf, then 2seconds later jump to egypt and see what their up to. seeing more styles, will change your style. some people progress faster than others, and some never progress. ive known writers who got to a certin point in their style, and never progressed. they either got board with it and stopped trying or found they couldnt leave their comfort zone cause of the fame they got for the style. but their are certin people like my self that have done the straight letters, the wildstyles, the semi wild styles, the throwups, and felt ive done enuf. i had gotten board with them all. so i asked my self, why do i need to keep the fill within the outline? why does all my 3d have to go the same direction? why cant my outline over lap it self? why does the peice have to fit in a rectangle? those were all the rules, or so i thought. so i proceeded to try and break everyone of them. i streched and pulled the letters, i overlapped them, i pulled the fill this way and that, i tried to step away from the "rectangle peice" and began pulling the peice off the wall, why do i need to show the whole letter? maybe only showing half of it, would be more interesting. i asked my self, why do i need to use a ton of colors to call it a burner? i felt that using too many colors, were taking away from the outline (which for me is the most important part of a peice - except for 3d stuff)... so i tried painting with a limited pallete. i loved it. it was differnt, it stood out. but now ive landed in that comfort zone doing the same style over and over again, started being known as one of those guys that does "that" style. so im hitting the black books, and starting over, Re-evolving myself... im relearning straight letters, all over again, but this time they are way different than the first time i tried, cause of all my experience doing all the differnt styles of past, the letters have re-evolved. i hate my current stuff, im like a toy again in my mind.but im confident i will continue to ask myself questions about the rules of a peice. and proceed from there... on a side note: This is a long shot but Could it be conspiracy: with so many police patrolling these boards, maybe they are all trying to convice us graff writers to do more basic styles so they can read the stuff, and thus, well you know... innovation, evolution... this is only my observations and opinions on the subject. pureist will be pure, and innovators will innovate. its as simple as that. have a nice day. 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Joker Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 ForeverSteve, I have no idea who you are but I'd say between you and Sonik... that discussion has been securely sealed. Nice one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelchef Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 i'm kind of struggling with the innovation thing... being that this is graffiti, and copying other peoples work is so highly stigmatized, every person doing graffiti is an innovator then, right? (unless they are BLATANTLY copying someone else's stuff) naturally some are more innovative than others, and it's the most innovative who should be represented here, but who decides who is more innovative than the next? im struggling here, guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreversteve Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Joker: thanks! i just really feel evolution and innovation is such a big part in my life that i cant deny its presence. that is why, after lurking on this web site for the past couple of years i finnally found a good topic to resopond to. and, oh yeah, you do know me... steelchef: i dont believe its a matter of who is more innovative than the other... i think its more of a matter of willingness to break the rules and do it different. this isnt a compotition anymore. graff to me has become such an art form, that the competition aspect has all but vanished in my eyes. In the art of bombing (finding new and creative ways to get up, and stay up, to use the outdoor space in such a way that it makes one stop and think for a moment about what someone had to go through and risk to do what they did and why)... i find bombing the ultimate performance art, that you wished you could see. As for peiceing; trains, walls, canvas,... for me its not about the most blinging peice with the most colors covering the most space at a wall, for me its about interesting graff. the stuff that make me question what can be done. i have total respect for pureist because they feel just as strongly about being pure as inovators do towards innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beardo Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 steel.. maybe it can be broken into 2 categories. innovation inside established styles and innovation in the sense of creating entirely new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and now you choke Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 most writers don't innovate because they're hedonistic bastards who just masturbate time over time over time over time over time over time again and again. and well, i say, keep stroking it...if that's what your release is. some of it is also the anxiety of the process. it's extremely hard to be innovative under most legitimately illegal circumstances with all the monkies hunched over your back. that's why a lot of guys resort to comfort zones. it's another thing to be brilliantly innovative when you're sticking signs in the woods, painting under a rock in the desert or something, you're walking in comfortably...i don't find that much rewarding. it's creative no less, but it's straying from the message and the medium. the best innovators juggle it all and come correct on stage under pressure, then the havenots come around and taketake take...until all those innovative bombers who came with it are forgotten, or discredited. i think the popularity of the late 70s and 80s "funk" straightletter work that came largely out of NY is an example of a sucessful, at one point innovative, illegal graff technique. but look at how many kids take it without recollection of its history. it's no longer innovative at all! it's complete masturbation now! it's getting damn near homoerotic. anyhow, you can't inspire an audience of havenots from under the rocks...or through some flicks that make some rounds on the net or in magazines, the context is all too often removed and disposed; history is shat upon and denied. don't confuse innovation with a mild schizophrenia that takes no heed for its own medium and message... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik3000 Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Since your comment about sticking signs in the woods was obviously aimed at me, Chokester, I'll explain that part of me to you: I do work wherever I am. It isn't some sign installation that I did in the woods that gets me amped on my own stuff, it's that I can look through my flick book and find that along with highways and streets in cities more populous than your state, along with many many gradations in between. Do you see what I mean here? My mission is to do quality work wherever I am, and that's not always gonna be in the most pressure environments, though sometimes it is. The more surfaces and spaces that you feel comfortable working in, the more you can get loose in a way that responds perfectly to your environment. And personally, that's what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray finkle Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 instalation bombing, theres another really non-innovative thing to do these days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelchef Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by beardo steel.. maybe it can be broken into 2 categories. innovation inside established styles and innovation in the sense of creating entirely new ones. gotcha Originally posted by foreversteve the stuff that makes me question what can be done. excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorbreath Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by johnny BIG BLACK YOU'RE FULL OF DOG SHIT. THAT'S D-O-G-S-H-I-T. DON'T TELL ME WHAT GRAFF WAS IN 1972, THIS IS 2003. THA'TS LIKE JERKING OFF TO A PLAYBOY FROM 1961 AND FRONTING LIKE YOU KNOCKED IT DOWN WITH THAT SLUT JESSICA SIMPSON, SHIT AINT QUITE THE SAME. IF YOU WANT TO TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK GRAFF IS, THAT'S FINE BUT DON'T GO MAKING GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT WHAT AN ENTIRE MOVEMENT OF ART IS ABOUT BASED ON YOUR NARROW VISION. for real...PULL OUT THE LEG WARMERS AND FINGERLESS GLOVES, BIGBLACKO IS COMIN TO TOWN...reef yaself outta the past fella... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Green Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 se·mi·ot·ics (n. (used with a sing. verb) The theory and study of signs and symbols, especially as elements of language or other systems of communication, and comprising semantics, syntactics, and pragmatics. not that i think it needs to go there.. but.. roland barthes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray finkle Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by cjd333 haha, I remember the day when I had 1080085 as an icq account a few weeks after it was released and the latest warez took an hour or two to download on a 28.8 when I was doing that thing. Those days are gone now. it was all about spending like 45 minutes to download a picture of a naked lady off a bbs on a 2400 baud... were you part of the warez scene? i met a guy randomly at a party last year that was a RaZoR 911 courier, tripped me out - first person id ever come across in real life that knew about any of that old bbs underworld shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Banksy http://www.plasticrecords.com/images/banksy.gif'> http://www.electricedge.com/greymatter/images/banksy.jpg'> http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~fortean3/images/things/things2.jpg'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priscilla119 Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 whats that bhope... that shit is pretty fresh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and now you choke Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by Sonik3000 Since your comment about sticking signs in the woods was obviously aimed at me, Chokester, I'll explain that part of me to you: I do work wherever I am. It isn't some sign installation that I did in the woods that gets me amped on my own stuff, it's that I can look through my flick book and find that along with highways and streets in cities more populous than your state, along with many many gradations in between. Do you see what I mean here? My mission is to do quality work wherever I am, and that's not always gonna be in the most pressure environments, though sometimes it is. The more surfaces and spaces that you feel comfortable working in, the more you can get loose in a way that responds perfectly to your environment. And personally, that's what it's about. Sonik, my comment wasn't directed towards you, or anyone...You don't need to defend yourself. I was getting metaphorical, if a tree falls in the woods...dahdah. Call me a bit confused, frustrated...but I'm damn well enriched and aware of signs and semiotics, You guys know very little about my non-graffiti work and I'll leave it at that. I choose to keep my interest with graffiti distant from my artwork, although the influence often comes through in my artwork, as sort of a "keep graffiti pure" philosophy and I stick to the medium at hand. I'm not going to take chips off your block because I believe that what you do IS innovative, Sonik. I don't however agree that all of your work falls under "graffiti". When I think of innovative graffiti I look back at what has been done and find the chain of developing letterforms, techniques in process, application to a public context that immediately and directly extends itself to its viewer...okay, so I'm just stressing the illegality of the act! Graffiti is an act of resistance! I'd rather wrap myself up in the message more than the medium, because, well...the social connotations of graffiti stray from the museums and art facilities and applies it to social and physical context that firstly suited the city. I hope that if you consider yourself innovative, you can atleast appreciate the multitudes of meaning implied by the act itself, and while some suburban kids are running South Bronx styles on freight trains and in skateboard parks, they're destroying the message while all too blissfully unaware. Graffiti is going to be whatever you want it to be, whereever you want it to be...I just don't think that many people are putting forth much effort to change the cultural implications of the act that might enrichen the message and enhance it formally. I think America needs to bomb the suburbs, or atleast appropriate itself into the suburbs with non-ghetto graff. I'm very into Banksy's work, but then again, I've never seen any of it in person (that'll change soon with travel). I was particularly struck when I saw "LIVE FOR TODAY" by Rime on the NJ transit line, and I have been equally struck by graffiti done by non-writers that strike political chords. My ADD is out of control, I can't keep on topic...just throwing stuff out there...I enjoy the conversation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 The converstaion is as good as the images. That's almost unheard of in this forum... let's keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest meone Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 my personal opinion, not that it matters cause i'm still a toy from detroit, but my opinion is that graff has evolved so much in what like 25-30 years? that it became exactly the hip hop culture it came from. We all have seen how hip has changed. It has come from the underground to the mainstream... rather quickly too! Same with graff, maybe not mainstream but in ways it has become mainstream from legalized pieces to using to market clothing and miscellaneous things. There will always be the purists and there will always be those who want to move foreward... Some of us chose to stay in the past and some of us chose to attempt to move foreward. payce ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cultural me Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Originally posted by /-|3e|_____ http://www.Aerosolart.it/bombing/rne3.jpg'> shits fuckin dope! someone please post some kadisms. now thats inivative style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 bumpbump some really interesting perspectives on style, dope debate!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabin fever Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Bump for Alio. Actually, bump for every damned thing on here... I'd like to see some free5 or sento up in this, not to mention the whole city of Budapest. If I had 'em I'd post 'em Good lookin out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYSH Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 free5 in a minute..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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