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ANTI WAR CHUMPS


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Esai

 

You have a right to your opinion. I disagree with your position. I have relatives (well, distant relatives) who were murdered by Indians for the crime of farming corn, raising chickens and living in a dugout house on the side of a hill in north Texas. So what? You don't see me going around blaming Native American people about it today. Great Uncle Whosis fucked up--he wasn't sufficiently bloodthirsty, and wound up getting murdered for thinking he could move into territory populated by hostile Indians without first making sure a system of force and violence was close enough to protect him in his vicious exploitation and luxurious, rapacious living there in the one-room, dirt roofed house.

 

Somebody always loses in a war. Everytime somebody loses, they bitch and whine about how unfair it all is, and how the winners are monsters, etc. The United States is getting to the point now where there are very few nations that could take us in a straight-up fight. I'm sure we'll lose thousands to some terrorist bullshit. The whining and accusations and outraged sensibilities are all part of a "strategy of the powerless." North Vietnam did an EXCELLENT job of bringing the Vietnam War to a close politically. I consider myself very fortunate that the U.S. Government did not imprison all us war protesters, or worse. I was an immature idiot for protesting the Vietnam War, and upon retrospect, realize now that I was solidly duped by the Communists. Nobody's fault but my own. I had been warned repeatedly, but I didn't believe the people warning me, because I was 17 years old and knew everything.

 

Anybody who hates the U.S. and despises the life we live here so much is free to live elsewhere. "Beautiful Africa" awaits you, along with malaria, tuberculosis and river blindness, not to mention good, old-fashioned genocidal tribal murders where hundreds of men, women and children are hacked to death with machetes, shovels and axes, or suffer deliberate amputations of hands, blindings, etc., etc. Last one of these I read about happened in Congo. I wouldn't go there. Why not try Nigeria? They have one of the longest-running civil wars going on the entire continent. You don't need to worry about getting shot there, though. The people have no right to own firearms, so the only people with guns are the Army, the police, and the tribal killers, oh, I mean "militias." (In the newspaper any group of armed murderers is now a "militia.")

 

Or South America. How about Columbia? Oh, wait. Every time somebody goes down there to go fishing, they seem to get kidnapped. You don't want to be held for month for ransom for being such a priveleged, pampered Americano, do you? If you don't, then you must just be a Yanqui imperialist who doesn't understand the historical dialectic of kidnapping tourists and holding them for thousands of dollars ransom. And that's the police in Columbia, never mind the narco-guerrillas.

 

Yes, the U.S. sucks. We are so awful, for wanting to just live a normal life. People all over the world are convinced that we are the cause of all their troubles, or at least many of them seem to be. Frankly, other than the fact that we own too many cars, I don't see that. The poorest, most uneducated kid in America wants to own a car. Rich folks own cars. Everybody owns cars. They all burn petroleum, and I'd be happier if we didn't have so many car owners. Of course, I'd still own one, if I could afford it. But nobody else, so I could drive around without all the traffic jams. That would be great, don't you think? I do.

 

I'm free to not own a car, and in fact, there were periods of my life when I didn't own one, but not owning a car in a town like Houston SUUUUCKS. But I still could have done it, if I really wanted to. Could have ridden the bus. Bicycled. Whatever. The only problem is that public transportation sucks, even in a town with good public transport, like San Francisco, because of the other people riding it with you, who tend to act like jackasses for no particular reason.

 

We live in a world of people who choose to not respect the rights of others. Everybody justifies it for themselves, but bitches when somebody else does it. The world seems to be filled with selfish, self-centered, "Me-Firsters." Life's a bitch, oh well. Either get some power, or be prepared to be shoved around by life.

 

I learned this lesson in Marine Corps Boot Camp. I was still sort of thinking like a libertarian socialist when I went in. About the second day I came to the realization that I was "in for years," and I had a choice---either make rank quickly, or be on the receiving end for years. It was a very illuminating moment. I made sergeant in twenty-two months. The day I made corporal was the sweetest, though. I was now an NCO--no more details, no more scrubbing the shitters, no more picking up cigarette butts. You get a choice in life. "Do as thou wilt." The flip side of that is "Fuck with people at your own risk." Now I've got to go to work so I can be a big old exploiter of poor indigenous peoples all over the globe by driving my car. Maybe I'll take the bus. Nah.

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Kabar, you are entitled to your opinion, but like I mentioned several times, Indian genocide is NOT my or anyone else's opinion, ITS A HISTORICAL FACT! Please read up thoroughly on US History before you open your mouth homie. And in regard to your ancestor story, that was their fault. My great grandfather wasnt moving into anyone's land illegally, he was chillin in New Mexico where my family had been for hundreds of years. Your poor family had probably been misinformed about Native hostility, so blame the US government, not the tribe who experienced a straight out robbery of their land. Also, if this "war" with the indians was so justifiable, why doesnt our classroom history books thoroughly account for them. US wars with native tribes lasted several centuries, and was actually several dozen wars. These wars cost the US a large portion of their wealth, their citizens, and changed the psyche of all americans forever. The murder of white settlers by indians also endedin the 1800's, the US government still outright robs and steals from indian tribes to this day, in fact the Bush cabinet overturned a agreement to leave sacred mountains in Arizona untouched, siding for a mining company over several local tribes and legal documentation. Many cases like these are simply disregarded and ignored by anglo american courts. You didnt address the various facts I previously posted in favor of some individual story that has no basis as proof that the US's behavior was and is justifiable, could that be because your ideologies on this matter are not justifiable using logic? One of the definitions of cognitive dissonance is the act of ignoring logic reason and credible facts to justify one's ideas, beliefs, and lifestyle. In psychology we learn that cognitive dissonance is a mental tool people use to justify the unjustifiablei.e. US historical actions and the current world economic system. Read my last post and answer my facts with other relevant and IMPORTANT facts, not some story about your protesting vietnam or a biker brawl you saw.

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PS. Although I personally have no respect for your actual position on this issue, i do respect your right to an opinion. I am in no way trying to censor you, but anytime I see or hear that bullshit I'm gonna correct it to the best of my ability. Anything less would be disrespect to my ancestry, culture, and myself.

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Ps, Although I have no respect for your actual opinion, I respect your righ to an opinion and am in no way trying to censor you or shut you up. But evry time I see or hear that bullshit Im gonna correct it to the best of my ability. Have a good day Kabar and thanks for the conversating.

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Originally posted by Europe

^^

What the hell are you talking about?

 

oh, I'm sorry... I think I know...

 

He's complaining about his own inability to reconize the single most obvious fact. That being, you don't jump into a thread that's 5 pages long about the war and start dropping names and discussing why 'kids that bomb the tube are all that'...

 

In Channel 0, no less...

 

And I think it may be time for me to point out that I censor whatever the fuck I want and whatever Mr.Raven doesn't fucking want. I don't censor much, however...

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Esai

 

Guy, I don't know what to tell you. You want me to take responsibility for a war fought over 100 years ago? Sorry, man, I am not responsible for the fact that the Indians got fucked, not then, and not today. Big Mountain can be just as sacred as they come, but if the Native Americans want to own and control it, they'd better buy it from whomever holds the title. I guess the Federal Government could seize control of it and make it a National Park, but I don't think that's what the Native Americans have in mind.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to whhat is is that you would have me do. Acknowledge that the Indians were erradicated during the Indian Wars? Yeah. They were. Since the Indians were just about the finest light horse cavalry in North America, they were damned hard to fight. But the U.S. Army commanders, being pragmatic men, just attacked them where they were vulnerable--in the villages---and slaughtered everybody in sight. Was it genocidal? Yeah, I guess so. Was it justified? I don't know. I've been through the Plains States a couple of times, and I'm really not too sure why they wanted them so bad. In any case, they did, and the Indians would have been wise to make a better assessment of how ruthless the U.S. Army was willing to be in order to win.

 

There was a tribe of Indians down here in Texas called the Karankawas, they lived along the Gulf Coast. Sometime after the first Spanish explorers got to Texas, the Karankawas were wiped out, every last man, woman and child. I doubt any of them survived. So far as I'm aware, there are no Karankawas, or any of their descendants living anywhere on the Texas Gulf Coast. Most likely, this is the fate that awaited all the Native American peoples unless they surrendered. It seems like a wise choice to me, but then I'm not a Native American.

 

And now we have strip malls and used car lots where once the buffalo roamed. Great trade, eh?

 

I worked with a couple of Umatillas up in Washington State. Except for the fact that they had really long hair (like middle-of-the-back long) they were just like everybody else. Drank a beer after work, drove pick-up trucks. Wore cowboy boots and blue jeans and snap-button shirts from Sears'. They were both welders, like me. Both of them were former Marines. Semper Fi.

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Re: Esai

 

Originally posted by KaBar

Or South America. How about Columbia? Oh, wait. Every time somebody goes down there to go fishing, they seem to get kidnapped. You don't want to be held for month for ransom for being such a priveleged, pampered Americano, do you? If you don't, then you must just be a Yanqui imperialist who doesn't understand the historical dialectic of kidnapping tourists and holding them for thousands of dollars ransom. And that's the police in Columbia, never mind the narco-guerrillas.

 

 

 

not true.

i lived with a columbian couple for months. this is all the media. there are militia guerillas in one area of columbia where no one goes. up in the mountains. other than that its a cool place where anyone is safe. so long as your not retarded.

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Kabar, I dont want you to do a cartwheel for indians or anything. You had posted how the west was won fair and square, and like I said, If I see or hear that shit I'm gonna correct the misinformation. If I started downplaying the Nazi extermination I'm sure someone who is Jewish would correct me, and with good reason. Like Ive said many a time, the act of downplaying Indian genocide, and the history of any other people other than europeans for that matter, has a negative impact on nonwhite children. If someone was spewing out misinformation about the right to bear arms, im sure you'd correct them. Maybe you could learn a thing or 2 if you read about the beliefs and history of our native cultures. I didnt seriously think about my native american blood until I went to college,before that I considered myself just anither chicano from LA, but the history and beliefs of my people have helped me to gain a better sense of who and what I am, and my place in the world. Either way, It was entertaining to discuss this subject with you, thanks for the conversating and no hard feelings buddy.

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Takes All Kinds

 

I talked plenty of shit about the poor, oppressed Third World people back before I had been to the Third World. And if I was uneducated (actually, that's not really true, I have two 2-year degrees, but no 4-year degree) then my ability to write this well (insert modest pride) would be all the more remarkable.

 

Israel is only just a little bit more preferable to the likes of their adversaries. They have plenty for which to answer.

 

Who doesn't? The world is a cruel ass place. Deal with it.

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Education

 

Whom then, do I call educated?

 

First, those who manage the circumstances which they encounter day by day and who possess a judgement which is accurate in meeting occasions as they arise and rarely miss the expedient course of action; next, those who are decent and honorable in their intercourse with all men, bearing easily and good naturedly what is unpleasant or offensive in others, and being themselves as agreeable and reasonable to their associates as it is humanly possible to be; furthermore, those who hold their pleasures always under control and are not unduly overcome by their misfortunes, bearing up under them bravely and in a manner worthy of our common nature; finally, and most important of all, those who are not spoiled by their successes and who do not desert their true selves, but hold their ground steadfastly as wise and sober-minded men, rejoicing no more in the good things which have come to them through chance than in those which their own nature and intelligence are theirs since birth.

 

Those who have a character which is in accord, not with one of these things, but with all of them-- these I maintain are educated and whole men, possessed of all the virtues of man.

 

 

-Socrates

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Originally posted by ctrl+alt+del

http://www.ltpage.com/captures/APPLAUSE.jpg'>

 

excellent, quite possibly the best stuff ive read on 12oz ever. that one gets printed out. and your point comes across pretty well too. I only hope that when my times winds down, i can read that and call myself an educated man.

 

If you're talking about Smart, that was a Socrates quote ... not a Smart original.

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Re: Esai

 

Originally posted by KaBar

You have a right to your opinion. I disagree with your position. I have relatives (well, distant relatives) who were murdered by Indians for the crime of farming corn, raising chickens and living in a dugout house on the side of a hill in north Texas. So what? You don't see me going around blaming Native American people about it today. Great Uncle Whosis fucked up--he wasn't sufficiently bloodthirsty, and wound up getting murdered for thinking he could move into territory populated by hostile Indians without first making sure a system of force and violence was close enough to protect him in his vicious exploitation and luxurious, rapacious living there in the one-room, dirt roofed house.

 

Somebody always loses in a war. Everytime somebody loses, they bitch and whine about how unfair it all is, and how the winners are monsters, etc. The United States is getting to the point now where there are very few nations that could take us in a straight-up fight. I'm sure we'll lose thousands to some terrorist bullshit. The whining and accusations and outraged sensibilities are all part of a "strategy of the powerless." North Vietnam did an EXCELLENT job of bringing the Vietnam War to a close politically. I consider myself very fortunate that the U.S. Government did not imprison all us war protesters, or worse. I was an immature idiot for protesting the Vietnam War, and upon retrospect, realize now that I was solidly duped by the Communists. Nobody's fault but my own. I had been warned repeatedly, but I didn't believe the people warning me, because I was 17 years old and knew everything.

 

Anybody who hates the U.S. and despises the life we live here so much is free to live elsewhere. "Beautiful Africa" awaits you, along with malaria, tuberculosis and river blindness, not to mention good, old-fashioned genocidal tribal murders where hundreds of men, women and children are hacked to death with machetes, shovels and axes, or suffer deliberate amputations of hands, blindings, etc., etc. Last one of these I read about happened in Congo. I wouldn't go there. Why not try Nigeria? They have one of the longest-running civil wars going on the entire continent. You don't need to worry about getting shot there, though. The people have no right to own firearms, so the only people with guns are the Army, the police, and the tribal killers, oh, I mean "militias." (In the newspaper any group of armed murderers is now a "militia.")

 

Or South America. How about Columbia? Oh, wait. Every time somebody goes down there to go fishing, they seem to get kidnapped. You don't want to be held for month for ransom for being such a priveleged, pampered Americano, do you? If you don't, then you must just be a Yanqui imperialist who doesn't understand the historical dialectic of kidnapping tourists and holding them for thousands of dollars ransom. And that's the police in Columbia, never mind the narco-guerrillas.

 

Yes, the U.S. sucks. We are so awful, for wanting to just live a normal life. People all over the world are convinced that we are the cause of all their troubles, or at least many of them seem to be. Frankly, other than the fact that we own too many cars, I don't see that. The poorest, most uneducated kid in America wants to own a car. Rich folks own cars. Everybody owns cars. They all burn petroleum, and I'd be happier if we didn't have so many car owners. Of course, I'd still own one, if I could afford it. But nobody else, so I could drive around without all the traffic jams. That would be great, don't you think? I do.

 

I'm free to not own a car, and in fact, there were periods of my life when I didn't own one, but not owning a car in a town like Houston SUUUUCKS. But I still could have done it, if I really wanted to. Could have ridden the bus. Bicycled. Whatever. The only problem is that public transportation sucks, even in a town with good public transport, like San Francisco, because of the other people riding it with you, who tend to act like jackasses for no particular reason.

 

We live in a world of people who choose to not respect the rights of others. Everybody justifies it for themselves, but bitches when somebody else does it. The world seems to be filled with selfish, self-centered, "Me-Firsters." Life's a bitch, oh well. Either get some power, or be prepared to be shoved around by life.

 

I learned this lesson in Marine Corps Boot Camp. I was still sort of thinking like a libertarian socialist when I went in. About the second day I came to the realization that I was "in for years," and I had a choice---either make rank quickly, or be on the receiving end for years. It was a very illuminating moment. I made sergeant in twenty-two months. The day I made corporal was the sweetest, though. I was now an NCO--no more details, no more scrubbing the shitters, no more picking up cigarette butts. You get a choice in life. "Do as thou wilt." The flip side of that is "Fuck with people at your own risk." Now I've got to go to work so I can be a big old exploiter of poor indigenous peoples all over the globe by driving my car. Maybe I'll take the bus. Nah.

 

thats fucken great. quotes like that make me wanna join the marines , it sounds so much like fucken army propaganda though...

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Guest ctrl+alt+del
Originally posted by Poop Man Bob

If you're talking about Smart, that was a Socrates quote ... not a Smart original.

 

i knew it was a socrates quote...i probably didnt make it very clear. smart still gets applause for posting it though, its good stuff. im taking a philosophy class next year. gonna get to dig into all that good stuff.

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Re: ThirdWorldShitholes.com

 

Originally posted by KaBar

http://www.urmia.org/docs/BBlightTravelUS.htm

 

Read the truth.

thats kind of bs really.

ive been in plenty cities where bad shit goes down. they might as well list rome as one too.

5 corrupt police forces

illegal taxis up the ass

more pickpockets than you can ask for

most of that stuff happens in alot of cities. but its not published.

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All I can say is I've lived in the U.S. for 53 years, and have yet to be kidnapped by the police or had my pocket picked, but WTF, the night is young. I did get a free haircut on the hood of a police car once, courtesy of the Houston Police Department, but it was my own fault, really. I look back upon that night and ask myself "If those two armed police officers had been two big old armed rednecks, or two big armed black guys with Afros out to here, would I have been so disrepectful and wise-assed with them?" Answer: No way

 

I speak from experience: Talk shit to big guys with guns at your own risk. It don't pay the rent.

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